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McCain can just not get over he lost the election!

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Floridatexan
Sal
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Nekochan

Nekochan

Dreamsglore wrote:
Nekochan wrote:It's been reported that:
*Obama and McCain have been talking with each other a lot over the past 5 months.
*McCain met Obama in the Oval Office for a private strategy session a week or so before his trip to Syria.
*The White House said it knew about McCain's trip ahead of time.
*The State Department said it knew about McCain's trip ahead of time.
*McCain said that the State Department helped him with security on his trip and that he would not have gone to Syria if the State Department had told him "No".


So I still believe that either Obama asked McCain to go or that McCain told Obama he'd liked to go and Obama signed off on it. I believe that Obama not only knew about the trip but that he approved of it. Until I see any reports or evidence that Obama expressed unhappiness about McCain's trip, I will believe that the two men talked about this trip ahead of time and that McCain had Obama's blessing.

Believe what you want. Obama doesn't sign off on anything. MCCain is free to go where he wants.If Obama blessed his trip they wouldn't be referring questions to McCains office and just saying they were aware of it. McCain would be the last person Obama sent there.

McCain is free to go where he wants but who does the State Department answer to? OBAMA. The State Department did NOT have to help him and if Obama didn't want the State Department helping McCain, it would not have helped him.

2seaoat



McCain is free to go where he wants but who does the State Department answer to?

Wasting your effort.........History and understanding how our constitution actually has worked is not a strong point with many........so we have these silly discussions.......McCain is performing a function which our founding fathers most certainly would approve. They would not approve of a senator negotiating a treaty, or attempting to speak to a head of state with the apparent authority of the US......this would require executive approval, and here we simply have an information gathering trip which is what senators from the foreign relations committee have been doing for hundreds of years............nobody knows what is discussed behind closed doors, and to assume the same is silly.......so in the absence of the same to come to the conclusion that something is unusual about this trip is silly.

Guest


Guest

2seaoat wrote:McCain is free to go where he wants but who does the State Department answer to?

Wasting your effort.........History and understanding how our constitution actually has worked is not a strong point with many........so we have these silly discussions.......McCain is performing a function which our founding fathers most certainly would approve. They would not approve of a senator negotiating a treaty, or attempting to speak to a head of state with the apparent authority of the US......this would require executive approval, and here we simply have an information gathering trip which is what senators from the foreign relations committee have been doing for hundreds of years............nobody knows what is discussed behind closed doors, and to assume the same is silly.......so in the absence of the same to come to the conclusion that something is unusual about this trip is silly.

The founding fathers would approve of McCain going into a war area and speaking w/ rebels of whom some are terrorists and possible kidnappers? Then wanting us to provide arms to those who may possibly use them against us? LOL! You're a crackpot. It's a good thing you never taught.

2seaoat



The founding fathers would approve of McCain going into a war area and speaking w/ rebels of whom some are terrorists and possible kidnappers? Then wanting us to provide arms to those who may possibly use them against us? LOL! You're a crackpot. It's a good thing you never taught.

You continue to make funny assumptions......I love this place.

Guest


Guest

2seaoat wrote:The founding fathers would approve of McCain going into a war area and speaking w/ rebels of whom some are terrorists and possible kidnappers? Then wanting us to provide arms to those who may possibly use them against us? LOL! You're a crackpot. It's a good thing you never taught.

You continue to make funny assumptions......I love this place.

Nothing funny about it. We have no clue who these people are that MCCain wants to arm yet you condone his actions. Hmmm? Good judgement call. LOL!

PBulldog2

PBulldog2

Dreamsglore wrote:
Nekochan wrote:It's been reported that:
*Obama and McCain have been talking with each other a lot over the past 5 months.
*McCain met Obama in the Oval Office for a private strategy session a week or so before his trip to Syria.
*The White House said it knew about McCain's trip ahead of time.
*The State Department said it knew about McCain's trip ahead of time.
*McCain said that the State Department helped him with security on his trip and that he would not have gone to Syria if the State Department had told him "No".


So I still believe that either Obama asked McCain to go or that McCain told Obama he'd liked to go and Obama signed off on it. I believe that Obama not only knew about the trip but that he approved of it. Until I see any reports or evidence that Obama expressed unhappiness about McCain's trip, I will believe that the two men talked about this trip ahead of time and that McCain had Obama's blessing.

Believe what you want. Obama doesn't sign off on anything. MCCain is free to go where he wants.If Obama blessed his trip they wouldn't be referring questions to McCains office and just saying they were aware of it. McCain would be the last person Obama sent there.

And you know this how, Dreams? Do you have a hotline to the president, or what?

Floridatexan

Floridatexan

Did anyone actually watch the video Dreams posted?

Or, how about this from 2011: McCain, Lieberman: US should arm Libyan rebels
http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-250_162-20036923.html


"Two senators said today the Obama administration should recognize a provisional government that seems to be taking shape in Libya's eastern half, and offer military aid to rebels seeking to overthrow Muammar Qaddafi..."

---------------------------------

We all know how well that worked out...and ever since the death of the ambassador and his entourage, they've been screaming "Benghazi" and pointing fingers at the President and Hillary Clinton. Unbelievable...and even more unbelievable that anyone here thinks that a face-to-face meeting between the President and a Senator indicates a consensus between the two.

McCain can just not get over he lost the election! - Page 4 338-1126203216-mccain-lieberman-graham3

Guest


Guest

PBulldog2 wrote:
Dreamsglore wrote:
Nekochan wrote:It's been reported that:
*Obama and McCain have been talking with each other a lot over the past 5 months.
*McCain met Obama in the Oval Office for a private strategy session a week or so before his trip to Syria.
*The White House said it knew about McCain's trip ahead of time.
*The State Department said it knew about McCain's trip ahead of time.
*McCain said that the State Department helped him with security on his trip and that he would not have gone to Syria if the State Department had told him "No".


So I still believe that either Obama asked McCain to go or that McCain told Obama he'd liked to go and Obama signed off on it. I believe that Obama not only knew about the trip but that he approved of it. Until I see any reports or evidence that Obama expressed unhappiness about McCain's trip, I will believe that the two men talked about this trip ahead of time and that McCain had Obama's blessing.

Believe what you want. Obama doesn't sign off on anything. MCCain is free to go where he wants.If Obama blessed his trip they wouldn't be referring questions to McCains office and just saying they were aware of it. McCain would be the last person Obama sent there.

And you know this how, Dreams? Do you have a hotline to the president, or what?

Guess what,PB? Watch TV and you'll see McCain angrily denouncing and criticizing the President for his refusal to provide arms to the rebels. Do you need an interpreter?

Guest


Guest

Floridatexan wrote:Did anyone actually watch the video Dreams posted?

Or, how about this from 2011: McCain, Lieberman: US should arm Libyan rebels
http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-250_162-20036923.html


"Two senators said today the Obama administration should recognize a provisional government that seems to be taking shape in Libya's eastern half, and offer military aid to rebels seeking to overthrow Muammar Qaddafi..."

---------------------------------

We all know how well that worked out...and ever since the death of the ambassador and his entourage, they've been screaming "Benghazi" and pointing fingers at the President and Hillary Clinton. Unbelievable...and even more unbelievable that anyone here thinks that a face-to-face meeting between the President and a Senator indicates a consensus between the two.

McCain can just not get over he lost the election! - Page 4 338-1126203216-mccain-lieberman-graham3

I know,right? McCain's been all over TV dissing Obama.

Guest


Guest

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/04/28/mccain-angry-and-bitter-syrians-need-americas-help/

Nicholas Burns, a former undersecretary of state, said Obama was in a difficult situation.

“He was right to make those warnings in the last several months because use of chemical weapons is a war crime under the chemical weapons convention,” Burns said, also on CNN. “I think he's right to be prudent and cautious. We got in a situation in 2003 in Iraq and didn't have all our facts together and went to war in part on an erroneous basis. So he's right to be cautious.”

Nekochan

Nekochan

Dreamsglore wrote:http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/04/28/mccain-angry-and-bitter-syrians-need-americas-help/

Nicholas Burns, a former undersecretary of state, said Obama was in a difficult situation.

“He was right to make those warnings in the last several months because use of chemical weapons is a war crime under the chemical weapons convention,” Burns said, also on CNN. “I think he's right to be prudent and cautious. We got in a situation in 2003 in Iraq and didn't have all our facts together and went to war in part on an erroneous basis. So he's right to be cautious.”

Of course he's in a difficult situation. It's a delicate matter. That's why he sent McCain. Wink

PBulldog2

PBulldog2

Rolling Eyes
Dreamsglore wrote:
PBulldog2 wrote:
Dreamsglore wrote:
Nekochan wrote:It's been reported that:
*Obama and McCain have been talking with each other a lot over the past 5 months.
*McCain met Obama in the Oval Office for a private strategy session a week or so before his trip to Syria.
*The White House said it knew about McCain's trip ahead of time.
*The State Department said it knew about McCain's trip ahead of time.
*McCain said that the State Department helped him with security on his trip and that he would not have gone to Syria if the State Department had told him "No".


So I still believe that either Obama asked McCain to go or that McCain told Obama he'd liked to go and Obama signed off on it. I believe that Obama not only knew about the trip but that he approved of it. Until I see any reports or evidence that Obama expressed unhappiness about McCain's trip, I will believe that the two men talked about this trip ahead of time and that McCain had Obama's blessing.

Believe what you want. Obama doesn't sign off on anything. MCCain is free to go where he wants.If Obama blessed his trip they wouldn't be referring questions to McCains office and just saying they were aware of it. McCain would be the last person Obama sent there.

And you know this how, Dreams? Do you have a hotline to the president, or what?

Guess what,PB? Watch TV and you'll see McCain angrily denouncing and criticizing the President for his refusal to provide arms to the rebels. Do you need an interpreter?

Rolling Eyes

2seaoat



History will fill us in......but in the meantime senators can travel to other countries to get information, and the State Department was aware of what McCain was going to do.........We need congress to begin working....to begin having real committee meetings which deal with America, not political agendas.........Syria is very complex. Informed senators and congress making decisions when we need to declare war require knowledge......independent, shared, and reliable..........McCain has been a good American, and his going to Syria is going to piss the Russians off, and that is where you begin to understand that the President may be very clever and there may be much more to this story.......but heck.....we can just ask Dreams........she is convinced that Senator McCain is a bad man.

Guest


Guest

2seaoat wrote:History will fill us in......but in the meantime senators can travel to other countries to get information, and the State Department was aware of what McCain was going to do.........We need congress to begin working....to begin having real committee meetings which deal with America, not political agendas.........Syria is very complex. Informed senators and congress making decisions when we need to declare war require knowledge......independent, shared, and reliable..........McCain has been a good American, and his going to Syria is going to piss the Russians off, and that is where you begin to understand that the President may be very clever and there may be much more to this story.......but heck.....we can just ask Dreams........she is convinced that Senator McCain is a bad man.

Wherever did I say McCain is a bad man,Seaoat? I said he was an idiot. We saw that when he choose Palin. So we need to stick our nose in again and get more of our children killed by declaring war. I'm sickened by that attitude. I'm sickened by people who want to throw other people's children's lives out the window.The President is trying to be cautious. MCCain is a warmonger. They need to kick his old ass out of congress!

2seaoat



They need to kick his old ass out of congress!


hmmmmm I guess those years serving our country and sitting in a North Viet Nam prison camp must have caused him to be a problem for some Americans.......He at least deserves cursory respect, and I will withhold my comments about his trip to Syria until I better understand his positions.....I really do not know his positions since he has returned.

Floridatexan

Floridatexan

2seaoat wrote:They need to kick his old ass out of congress!


hmmmmm I guess those years serving our country and sitting in a North Viet Nam prison camp must have caused him to be a problem for some Americans.......He at least deserves cursory respect, and I will withhold my comments about his trip to Syria until I better understand his positions.....I really do not know his positions since he has returned.



Here, Seaoat...have a lesson on McCain.

Nekochan

Nekochan

And there are plenty of Vietnam Veterans on record who cannot stand Kerry.

That one guy in your video who suggested that McCain promised his captors something is a real jerk. McCain went through almighty hell in that prison. I do not agree with McCain on a lot of things, but he is an American hero.

Guest


Guest

Old "Songbird McCain.

Guest


Guest

Nekochan wrote:And there are plenty of Vietnam Veterans on record who cannot stand Kerry.

That one guy in your video who suggested that McCain promised his captors something is a real jerk. McCain went through almighty hell in that prison. I do not agree with McCain on a lot of things, but he is an American hero.

So did all the other's captured. If he was such a hero why do his fellow prisoner's say he's a liar?

Nekochan

Nekochan

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2008/jan/17/vietnam-veterans-against-john-mccain/no-evidence-mccain-was-a-traitor/


In an echo of the attacks from the 2000 South Carolina primary that dealt a critical blow to Sen. John McCain's presidential campaign, a new flyer says the Arizona senator is a traitor.
It says that when he was a POW, McCain was a "Hanoi Hilton songbird" who collaborated with the enemy.

But it provides scant evidence to back up this claim and it is strongly contradicted by many other accounts reviewed by PolitiFact: interviews with other POWs, an author who has written a McCain biography and the senator's own accounts.

Robert Timberg, author of John McCain: An American Odyssey , who has interviewed many POWs who served with McCain, said there's no evidence that he ever collaborated with the North Vietnamese. "I've never known of any occasion in which Sen. McCain provided the North Vietnamese with anything of value," Timberg said.

The flyer was sent to about 80 media organizations in South Carolina and is posted on the group's Web site. The flyer probably would have been ignored, but the McCain campaign issued a statement calling it "a vicious attack."

The flyer has a caricature of a surly-looking McCain in a prison cell under the words, "Hanoi Hilton Songbird." The second page is headlined "FACT SHEET: Military Record of John Sidney McCain III" and it begins with some accurate biographical information.

The flyer contains 1 pages of criticisms of McCain, but only a few support the accusation that he was helping the enemy:

• That he told his captors "Okay, I'll give you military information if you will take me to the hospital."

• That the Hanoi news media reported he had given information about his flight, rescue ships and the order of U.S. attacks.

• That he broke the military code because he answered questions from a Spanish psychiatrist who had apparently been cooperating with the North Vietnamese.

There is some truth to these claims, but collectively they do not prove McCain was involved in "collaborations with the enemy," as the flyer alleges.

In his memoir Faith of My Fathers, McCain says that he initially offered the information because he was badly injured and afraid of dying. But, he wrote, "I didn't intend to keep my word."

When he was later interrogated, McCain gave his ship's name and squadron number and confirmed the target of his failed mission, he wrote. He also gave the names of the Green Bay Packers' offensive line and said they were members of his squadron.

Asked to identify future targets, he mentioned North Vietnamese cities that U.S. planes had already bombed.

George "Bud" Day and Orson Swindle, fellow POWs, told PolitiFact that POWs sometimes were forced to talk when they were tortured, but they tried to tell lies to mislead their captors.

"We were all tortured and we wrote confessions under the pressure of torture," said Swindle, who was a cellmate with McCain and is active in his campaign. "John McCain never collaborated with the enemy. He, like every one of us, submitted to severe torture. John McCain did nothing dishonorable. He was heroic."

At one point, McCain broke down and signed a confession. But Timberg, the biographer, said McCain deliberately used misspellings, grammatical errors and Communist jargon to show he was writing under duress: "I am a black criminal and I have performed the deeds of an air pirate. I almost died, and the Vietnamese people saved my life . . . "

Day, a Medal of Honor winner who also is supporting McCain's campaign, said the flyer is "the most outrageous f------ lie I've ever heard."

The man behind the flyer is Gerard "Jerry" W. Kiley, 61, of Garnerville, N.Y., who says he served in Vietnam for about a year. He describes his group as a one-man operation unaffiliated with any political party or campaign. He says he opposes McCain because of the senator's efforts to normalize relations with the Vietnamese communist government and because, in his view, McCain has helped the U.S. government keep information about POWs classified.

"John McCain has made sure the information concerning the lives of Americans we clearly abandoned after the war remain in government files 40 years later," he says.

He teamed with political activist Ted Sampley of North Carolina to distribute the fliers to South Carolina media outlets this month. Sampley did not respond to requests for comment.

Sampley also is a longtime McCain opponent. In 2000, he gained attention when he called McCain a "Manchurian candidate" on his Web site and said that he was an agent of the Vietnamese. In 1993, Sampley was convicted of misdemeanor assault and sentenced to 180 days' probation for attacking a McCain aide, according to a 2004 article in the New York Times.

McCain is not the first politician to draw the men's ire. In 2004, they formed Vietnam Veterans Against John Kerry.

Kiley has twice interrupted events featuring Vietnamese Prime Minister Phan Van Khai, forcing an American flag in his hand on one occasion and throwing red wine at him on another, according to a Secret Service agent who later arrested Kiley. He admits he threw the wine, but he was later acquitted in federal court of threatening Khai.

Kiley says he bases his most damning charges against McCain — that McCain gave information about the schedule of U.S. attacks in Vietnam in 1967, the year his plane was shot down and McCain was captured — on the word of Earl Hopper, a retired Army colonel.

In an interview, Hopper's wife, Patty, said that Hopper wasn't able to address the charges over the phone because of poor hearing. She said that Hopper has long been involved in the POW movement and that Earl Hopper's son, Earl Jr., is missing in action in Vietnam.

She cited as evidence for Hopper's charges a 1973 article by McCain that ran in U.S. News and World Report and what she said were "declassified U.S. military documents" she claimed to possess describing McCain's collaboration. Patty Hopper said she was away from her Arizona home and could not fax those documents.

But the 1973 article does not back up the charges made in the flyer. It provides the same basic account as McCain's book, corroborated by Timberg's book, which was based on interviews with many POWs.

Timberg, Day and Swindle noted that McCain, the son of a Navy admiral, was offered an early release from the prison but refused so that he could adhere to the military's code of conduct.

Timberg said he was perplexed by the allegations.

"Why do they hate him? There can be lots of issues you disagree with him about. But why try to destroy him?"

Because of the seriousness of the charge, the utter absence of evidence and the clear intention to harm McCain just days before a critical Republican primary, we find this claim to be Pants on Fire wrong.

Nekochan

Nekochan

I think it's pretty lowdown and slimy to attack a man for his time served in a POW prison.

Attack him on his policies, his legislation, and his political maneuvers--that's all fair game. But not his time in that POW prison.

Nekochan

Nekochan

Dreamsglore wrote:
Nekochan wrote:And there are plenty of Vietnam Veterans on record who cannot stand Kerry.

That one guy in your video who suggested that McCain promised his captors something is a real jerk. McCain went through almighty hell in that prison. I do not agree with McCain on a lot of things, but he is an American hero.

So did all the other's captured. If he was such a hero why do his fellow prisoner's say he's a liar?

That is false!

Guest


Guest

Nekochan wrote:I think it's pretty lowdown and slimy to attack a man for his time served in a POW prison.

Attack him on his policies, his legislation, and his political maneuvers--that's all fair game. But not his time in that POW prison.

"It has also been claimed by retired Army Colonel Earl Hopper, admittedly without any corroborating evidence apart from what might be contained in inaccessible Pentagon files, that “McCain told his North Vietnamese captors, highly classified information, the most important of which was the package routes, which were routes used to bomb North Vietnam. He gave in detail the altitude they were flying, the direction, if they made a turn… he gave them what primary targets the United States was interested in…the information McCain provided allowed the North Vietnamese to adjust their air-defenses. As result…the US lost sixty percent more aircraft and in 1968 [and] called off the bombing of North Vietnam, because of the information McCain had given to them.”

http://www.globalresearch.ca/john-mccain-war-hero-or-something-less/5337240

Guest


Guest

Nekochan wrote:
Dreamsglore wrote:
Nekochan wrote:And there are plenty of Vietnam Veterans on record who cannot stand Kerry.

That one guy in your video who suggested that McCain promised his captors something is a real jerk. McCain went through almighty hell in that prison. I do not agree with McCain on a lot of things, but he is an American hero.

So did all the other's captured. If he was such a hero why do his fellow prisoner's say he's a liar?

That is false!

No, it's not. You better get the correct info.

Nekochan

Nekochan

[quote="Nekochan"]
Dreamsglore wrote:
Nekochan wrote:And there are plenty of Vietnam Veterans on record who cannot stand Kerry.

That one guy in your video who suggested that McCain promised his captors something is a real jerk. McCain went through almighty hell in that prison. I do not agree with McCain on a lot of things, but he is an American hero.

So did all the other's captured. If he was such a hero why do his fellow prisoner's say he's a liar?

That is false! **If you're talking about all his cell mates being against McCain.
Yes, they all went through hell.

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