Military Personnel Should Be Tolerated, not Celebrated!

Dreamsglore wrote:

Nekochan wrote:Most military people don't want to go to war. But regardless of why they join, the agreement is that they will go wherever the military sends them. If they don't go where the military sends them, they will be tried for AWOL and sent to prison. And that is a commitment and sacrifice that policemen and firemen and other civilians do not make.

They're not sent to prison.They're kicked out w/ a bad discharge now days.

Yes, some do go to prison and at the very least, they have a dishonorable discharge on their record for life. This record follows them for every job application they have.

Any civilian (policeman, fireman, teacher, accountant, doctor, manager, etc) can quit their job at any time and not face a prison sentence and a dishonorable discharge. But that is exactly what a military person faces if they decide that they don't really want to deploy to Afghanistan or wherever...and they go AWOL.

AWOL soldier sentenced to 10 months

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2007-02-23/news/0702230391_1_desertion-military-judge-resisters

Don't hide behind a few acts of kindness to justify our rampant killing of thousands of innocent civilians--men, women and children-- in these unnecessary, bloody and costly orgies of death -- dealt by "freedom" fighters armed to the teeth by the greatest money-making military machine the world has ever seen. For every sweet photo you want to show of a soldier being nice to some poor slob living in a wartorn, occupied country under enforced American rule, I'll show you photos of soldiers pissing on dead bodies, showing ears they've taken, and mass graves dug by bulldozers.

Better yet, I'll show you an old woman bawling her guts out over the total loss of her family from a stray Hellfire or 105mm.

People who want to dedicate themselves to helping other people become doctors or join the Peace Corps, or some other voluntary NGO. They don't train how to operate a .30 mm chain gun. Reality.

nochain wrote:The military does more than you "think"

We've got some posters who believe the military can do no wrong. And other posters who believe the military can do no right.
Just like we have posters who believe government can do no wrong and others who believe government can do no right.
We are becoming a nation of extreme views.

Bob wrote:We've got some posters who believe the military can do no wrong. And other posters who believe the military can do no right.
Just like we have posters who believe government can do no wrong and others who believe government can do no right.
We are becoming a nation of extreme views.

Don't confuse "the military" with "the troops"! The troops just go where they're sent and do their jobs or they face federal prison if they don't!

Nekochan wrote:

Don't confuse "the military" with "the troops"! The troops just go where they're sent and do their jobs or they face federal prison if they don't!

That's all true and stuff. But you could say the same thing about the troops in nazi germany. Or imperial japan. Or Iran. Or North Korea. Or Libya. Or Syria. Or a hundred other places where all they do is "go where they're sent and do their jobs". Does that justify what they do too?
If it doesn't then when the U.S. goes to invading and killing innocent people in places like Iraq how can you justify what they do either?

Nekochan wrote:

Bob wrote:We've got some posters who believe the military can do no wrong. And other posters who believe the military can do no right.
Just like we have posters who believe government can do no wrong and others who believe government can do no right.
We are becoming a nation of extreme views.

Don't confuse "the military" with "the troops"! The troops just go where they're sent and do their jobs or they face federal prison if they don't!

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Bravo....!!!!! Wake the kids....phone the neighbors....and mark your calendars....!!!!

I was just getting ready to post a similar statement in answer to pacepup.

I love the Military, but there are certain members for whom I have a loathsome disregard, ie...any troop who openly supports armed insurrection towards our POTUS and our Nation.

He talks about the "military" when he should claim his opinion's and stop trying to imply he speaks for every person serving.

If you think The Ten Commandments come from your God, and specifically the one which says "thou shalt not kill", then how can you condone what was done in Iraq?
This is not a rhetorical question. Can someone point me to something else in the Holy Bible, and I mean the words of God Himself (not someone speaking for God), which would negate that Commandment and make what was done in Iraq okay with God? I'd sure like to see that.

Bob wrote:

Nekochan wrote:

Don't confuse "the military" with "the troops"! The troops just go where they're sent and do their jobs or they face federal prison if they don't!

That's all true and stuff. But you could say the same thing about the troops in nazi germany. Or imperial japan. Or Iran. Or North Korea. Or Libya. Or Syria. Or a hundred other places where all they do is "go where they're sent and do their jobs". Does that justify what they do too?
If it doesn't then when the U.S. goes to invading and killing innocent people in places like Iraq how can you justify what they do either?

Bob, the poor soldiers in those other countries were just doing their jobs. That is why there is a difference between "soldiers" and "illegal combatants" (terrorists).

Bob wrote:If you think The Ten Commandments come from your God, and specifically the one which says "thou shalt not kill", then how can you condone what was done in Iraq?
This is not a rhetorical question. Can someone point me to something else in the Holy Bible, and I mean the words of God Himself (not someone speaking for God), which would negate that Commandment and make what was done in Iraq okay with God? I'd sure like to see that.

You're absolutely right again Bob. The real irony is that every uniformed army in the world has some priest, chaplain or other form of witchdoctor to assure the troops that the people they're going to try and kill are God's enemies too. Think about it -- if God was our pal, why do we have so much evil in our world? Chaplains are cheerleaders whose job it is to justify the warmaking crapola being fed the cannonfodder, so they'll do God's killing very well indeed.

Bob, there was plenty of killing going on in the Old Testament...completely and totally with God's blessing. I do believe there is a difference between going next door and killing your neighbor than being sent by your country to fight in a war.

I dont think there are many Military personnel who doesn't wonder late at night and have the same thoughts. Soldiers are human. When you sift though the belongings of your enemy and see he carries a picture of his wife/girl friend just like you. Sometime it maybe just a little thing that make you wonder"what the hell is all this about?" But people like me, choose not to think much about it. It was/is a big deadly game. You are in it 100%. To stay alive you have to do what you have to do. It is only when you get back to the real "World" and try to discuss your actions with others does the doubt begin. Ever wonder why soldiers call this the "Real" world? Maybe I dont understand.

Get used to it, folks. We're earthling animals. Some earthling animals are violent. Some are not. We're a part of the violent persuasion.
Wishing that we aint is okay and all. But I was wishing that I was gonna win the Powerball too and I think the odds on that are even better.

So you can speak for god now. Because he condoned a war 3 or 4 thousand years ago war is still okay. Jesus Wept.

Nekochan wrote:Bob, there was plenty of killing going on in the Old Testament...completely and totally with God's blessing. I do believe there is a difference between going next door and killing your neighbor than being sent by your country to fight in a war.

There are two concepts being articulated in this post (I've separated them by color). They both leave me absolutely speechless.

So neko you can speak for god now. Because he condoned a war 3 or 4 thousand years ago war is still okay. Jesus Wept.

Bob wrote:

Nekochan wrote:Bob, there was plenty of killing going on in the Old Testament...completely and totally with God's blessing. I do believe there is a difference between going next door and killing your neighbor than being sent by your country to fight in a war.

There are two concepts being articulated in this post (I've separated them by color). They both leave me absolutely speechless.

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I Came. I saw. I did a little shopping, had a nice Mikveh....not too hot, not too cold.

I'm good to go.

Patriots always talk of dying for their country but never of killing for their country...........................

Patriotism is the willingness to kill and be killed for trivial reasons.................

Bertrand Russell

hallmarkgrad wrote:I dont think there are many Military personnel who doesn't wonder late at night and have the same thoughts. Soldiers are human. When you sift though the belongings of your enemy and see he carries a picture of his wife/girl friend just like you. Sometime it maybe just a little thing that make you wonder"what the hell is all this about?" But people like me, choose not to think much about it. It was/is a big deadly game. You are in it 100%. To stay alive you have to do what you have to do. It is only when you get back to the real "World" and try to discuss your actions with others does the doubt begin. Ever wonder why soldiers call this the "Real" world? Maybe I dont understand.

I think you do understand. Actually I think you just summed it all up in a way I can understand. At least as best as someone can understand who was never made to face it.

TEOTWAWKI wrote:So you can speak for god now. Because he condoned a war 3 or 4 thousand years ago war is still okay. Jesus Wept.

Never.
Bob asked about the Bible and the Ten Commandments:

If you think The Ten Commandments come from your God, and specifically the one which says "thou shalt not kill", then how can you condone what was done in Iraq?
This is not a rhetorical question. Can someone point me to something else in the Holy Bible, and I mean the words of God Himself (not someone speaking for God), which would negate that Commandment and make what was done in Iraq okay with God? I'd sure like to see that.

Bob wrote:

Nekochan wrote:Bob, there was plenty of killing going on in the Old Testament...completely and totally with God's blessing. I do believe there is a difference between going next door and killing your neighbor than being sent by your country to fight in a war.

There are two concepts being articulated in this post (I've separated them by color). They both leave me absolutely speechless.

You don't think there is a difference? I don't see how anyone could NOT see a difference. But you are free to think the way you think and I will think the way I think. It's just your opinion and mine.

Bob, I can only tell you my own personal belief. What more can I tell you?

I think that there is a difference between a soldier fighting on behalf of his country than the leader (King, President, Prime Minister, whatever) that sends him to fight. It is my personal belief that God will judge them differently.

And I don't think that is the case for just the USA. I think it's the case for every soldier and every leader in every country.

Nekochan wrote:

Bob wrote:

Nekochan wrote:Bob, there was plenty of killing going on in the Old Testament...completely and totally with God's blessing. I do believe there is a difference between going next door and killing your neighbor than being sent by your country to fight in a war.

There are two concepts being articulated in this post (I've separated them by color). They both leave me absolutely speechless.

You don't think there is a difference? I don't see how anyone could NOT see a difference. But you are free to think the way you think and I will think the way I think. It's just your opinion and mine.

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There's a huge difference between killing and murder. On that point I will agree. But reaching back to the days of Semitic tribal warfare in the Old Testament to justify today's "wars and rumors of wars" is too much to accept, much less consider as a viable argument.

We are not Israel (the people), and the Baal worshippers are scattered amongst today's modern religions. The whole concept of God's chosen people is set aside for the time being...they (Israel the people, not the nation-state) are Lo-Ami.

We are living in the Age of Grace, not under any portion of what was defined in the Old Testament as "Jewish Law". When folk reach back and try to cite that as being applicable today, they quickly become wrapped around their own axle, and only further prove they lack even rudimentary Biblical knowledge.

It's a very big book with a lot of words, and folk have been misusing it to justify their actions for as long as their has been script to read or hear.

Any false profit (sic) who tells us that we are condemned if we don't honor Israel (the nation-state), is a liar.

Bob specifically asked about the Ten Commandments. Ten Commandments are Old Testament law. And there was lots of killing that happened back in the Old Testament days. I would never claim or attempt to speak for God but I have read scripture from the Old Testament which told me that God did take sides in battles back then.

If Teo thinks that today's soldiers are going to burn in hell, then that's his opinion. I think that God will judge each and every one of us based on our deeds. A leader is in a position of much more power than an ordinary soldier and I think each person will be judged accordingly. Just my thoughts...

Yes there are even different levels of Murder...we can all agree that the worst form is when you premeditate to murder someone because he has something you want...you get your weapons (amass your strike force) then with out warning you pounce (shock and awe) them to death. Hopefully they won't have weapons of your mass destruction but if they did you could claim self defense....

Also it's okay to go ahead and murder someone that you hate when you think he might be going to acquire a gun and that makes you uneasy as you only have 400 guns yourself....