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Pensacola Discussion Forum » General Discussion » Zimmerman trial Monday, July 1

Zimmerman trial Monday, July 1

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PBulldog2
Hospital Bob
knothead
2seaoat
nadalfan
TEOTWAWKI
Markle
no stress
Sal
Joanimaroni
Nekochan
15 posters

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Guest


Guest

2seaoat wrote:Again, I don't think the medical examiner did well under cross.

Her testimony was not impeached.  It was probative.   The final weight of that testimony resides with the jury.

There's no way this woman could have testified as to the injuries Z had by looking at a picture.Simply incompetent.

2seaoat



I am curious. Has anybody heard whether the defense or the state is going to be asking for an order to allow the Jury to visit the crime scene? As the State builds their case, at some point they may fear the jury seeing the crime scene......or the defense may fear the same......but when we have the critical two minutes being defined in time and location.......I fully expect to see that motion.......and how the court handles the same will be interesting. The google maps have allowed incredible detail, but I have a feeling we will see a motion by either party to visit the crime scene.....there will be a bunch of safeguards and instructions to the jury to make sure this is presented objectively......but I think this may be coming.

Nekochan

Nekochan

I haven't heard anything about the jury visiting the crime scene. That would be interesting.

2seaoat



There's no way this woman could have testified as to the injuries Z had by looking at a picture.Simply incompetent.

All across America everyday.....medical examiners are doing that very thing. If you think the weight of her testimony is so small, or that she made a clear mistake in her conclusions, the defense will point out those errors with use of their medical expert in their case. She was not incompetent, but I think that the defense medical expert will be able to give a professional opinion that these injuries were serious, and will give much more information for the jury to process.

Guest


Guest

2seaoat wrote:

I cannot envision a worse hell than being stuck on an elevator with Nancy Grace for an hour.  I probably would be institutionalized.  If somebody made a new category of people you would never want to go to dinner with.....I would happily choose Hannibal Lechter rather than Nancy Grace.

According to my cousin, she (nancy grace) is actually very nice, and nothing at all like her on-air personality. Kimmie (my cousin) met her while she was head of a foundation that advocates for victims of murder and other violent crimes. She also met John Walsh there. She said, emphatically, that she likes nancy grace far more than john walsh, who is arrogant and rude.
Who'd a thunk it??
No matter. I still can't stand to watch her.

2seaoat



I haven't heard anything about the jury visiting the crime scene. That would be interesting.

My guess is that they may have already stipulated to the same and the order is sealed to allow a surprise visit coordinated with local law enforcement to provide security and avoid the media circus. If this has not been addressed, I would be surprised.

2seaoat



According to my cousin, she (nancy grace) is actually very nice, and nothing at all like her on-air personality.

Thanks for the information. She has created a very caustic tv presence, and I agree with your conclusion.

Guest


Guest

I had a closed head injury in 2006 from a car accident. There were two contusions above my ear. The Dr.explained to me although the cat scan could detect bleeding on the brain they couldn't detect nerve and blood vessel damage. He said the brain only has a small space around it before the skull begins. If you have a blow to your head it knocks the brain to the other side and it is very difficult to tell what is affected. The blood will eventually reroute itself but they can't tell how much damage it has done. They have to go by the symptoms. An MRI is a little more conclusive. In my case,it affected my eye on the opposite side of my head and they had to do a vitrectomy which is removing all the eye gel from the eyeball. It replaces it self but you can symptoms more than a year after a blow to the head including epilepsy in later years. His skull could have cracked which wouldn't be visible to the naked eye or picture.

Guest


Guest

Dreamsglore wrote:I had a closed head injury in 2006 from a car accident. There were two contusions above my ear. The Dr.explained to me although the cat scan could detect bleeding on the brain they couldn't detect nerve and blood vessel damage. He said the brain only has a small space around it before the skull begins. If you have a blow to your head it knocks the brain to the other side and it is very difficult to tell what is affected. The blood will eventually reroute itself but they can't tell how much damage it has done. They have to go by the symptoms. An MRI is a little more conclusive. In my case,it affected my eye on the opposite side of my head and they had to do a vitrectomy which is removing all the eye gel from the eyeball. It replaces it self but you can symptoms more than a year after a blow to the head including epilepsy in later years. His skull could have cracked which wouldn't be visible to the naked eye or picture.
My hubby suffered a severe tbi in 1991. He has deteriorated mentally, fairly steadily since that time. All tbi's are different. His sucks pretty bad. At least he is still here :)I'm glad you're alright. Were you knocked unconscious?

And nothing, at all, that I have read or heard, points to any kind of a brain injury. He ( Zimmerman) also does not act like he had any brain trauma. At least not a lasting kind. There's a certain look in the eyes that I have not seen in his.



Last edited by jose balu on 7/2/2013, 7:40 pm; edited 1 time in total

2seaoat



It replaces it self but you can symptoms more than a year after a blow to the head including epilepsy in later years. His skull could have cracked which wouldn't be visible to the naked eye or picture.

I completely agree with you on this, as I have told my mother's story of slipping in the bathtub, and a month later being unconscious with bleeding on the brain. I am bothered why defense counsel did not ask for an MRI or Cat scan which may have shown objective evidence of something other than incidental contact with the concrete. First, Zimmerman may not have had the resources for a discretionary cat scan which was not recommended by the PA, and two the defense may have been concerned that the visible injuries were most favorable to their case, and did not want to risk the same. In either regard, I am certain the defense expert will make your point concerning head injuries. The defense would be guilty of gross legal negligence not to counter with their own expert.

Guest


Guest

jose balu wrote:
Dreamsglore wrote:I had a closed head injury in 2006 from a car accident. There were two contusions above my ear. The Dr.explained to me although the cat scan could detect bleeding on the brain they couldn't detect nerve and blood vessel damage. He said the brain only has a small space around it before the skull begins. If you have a blow to your head it knocks the brain to the other side and it is very difficult to tell what is affected. The blood will eventually reroute itself but they can't tell how much damage it has done. They have to go by the symptoms. An MRI is a little more conclusive. In my case,it affected my eye on the opposite side of my head and they had to do a vitrectomy which is removing all the eye gel from the eyeball. It replaces it self but you can symptoms more than a year after a blow to the head including epilepsy in later years. His skull could have cracked which wouldn't be visible to the naked eye or picture.
My hubby suffered a severe tbi in 1991. He has deteriorated mentally, fairly steadily since that time. All tbi's are different. His sucks pretty bad. At least he is still here :)I'm glad you're alright. Were you knocked unconscious?

And nothing, at all, that I have read or heard, points to any kind of a brain injury. He ( Zimmerman) also does not act like he had any brain trauma. At least not a lasting kind. There's a certain look in the eyes that I have not seen in his.
If he (zimmerman)did have lasting trauma, it could easily show up on scans today. My hubby had no MRI till 2004 ( tbi in '91). You could easily see the scar tissue and his brain only (only!) had a bruise. A big one.

112Zimmerman trial Monday, July 1 - Page 5 Empty Re: Zimmerman trial Monday, July 1 7/2/2013, 10:53 pm

Guest


Guest

jose balu wrote:
Dreamsglore wrote:I had a closed head injury in 2006 from a car accident. There were two contusions above my ear. The Dr.explained to me although the cat scan could detect bleeding on the brain they couldn't detect nerve and blood vessel damage. He said the brain only has a small space around it before the skull begins. If you have a blow to your head it knocks the brain to the other side and it is very difficult to tell what is affected. The blood will eventually reroute itself but they can't tell how much damage it has done. They have to go by the symptoms. An MRI is a little more conclusive. In my case,it affected my eye on the opposite side of my head and they had to do a vitrectomy which is removing all the eye gel from the eyeball. It replaces it self but you can symptoms more than a year after a blow to the head including epilepsy in later years. His skull could have cracked which wouldn't be visible to the naked eye or picture.
My hubby suffered a severe tbi in 1991. He has deteriorated mentally, fairly steadily since that time. All tbi's are different. His sucks pretty bad. At least he is still here :)I'm glad you're alright. Were you knocked unconscious?

And nothing, at all, that I have read or heard, points to any kind of a brain injury. He ( Zimmerman) also does not act like he had any brain trauma. At least not a lasting kind. There's a certain look in the eyes that I have not seen in his.

Thank You. Yes, I was knocked unconscious which was good for the guy that hit me as he told the cops it was my fault. I was in and out of consciousness really as I remember someone trying to get me out of the car but I don't remember being hit or being in the ambulance. My car was totaled and the other guy's truck windshield was blown out on impact. His truck was totaled too. He hit me in my back door and knocked me across the median into the oncoming traffic. I was very fortunate he didn't hit me on the driver's door as he hit me going at a high rate of speed which spun my car in circles where I hit my head on the side door panel twice. I got shingles where the seat belt had been from the physical trauma. I didn't get blisters like in normal shingles until a month later which was about three. They couldn't figure out what was causing the pain until the blisters showed up. I had some memory loss and headaches for awhile.

113Zimmerman trial Monday, July 1 - Page 5 Empty Re: Zimmerman trial Monday, July 1 7/2/2013, 11:14 pm

Guest


Guest

HLN After Dark just had another jury panel voting on whether Martin could have reached for his gun.They all voted no. One guy who was a criminal defense atty (black) said he voted no because Z lied about his money.WTF? This is why I have little faith in juries.

114Zimmerman trial Monday, July 1 - Page 5 Empty Re: Zimmerman trial Monday, July 1 7/3/2013, 12:04 am

Nekochan

Nekochan

Sal wrote:O'Mara asked whether Serino had any evidence that Zimmerman continued to follow Trayvon Martin after a non-emergency dispatcher told him not to.

"I would answer I have information, yes," Serino said. "Just based on where we located Trayvon and the fact that the altercation happened after the confrontation. That's my interpretation. There was some following."

What part of Serino's testimony will the jurors most remember?
I think it will be the part where Serino said that he thinks Zimmerman was telling the truth.

115Zimmerman trial Monday, July 1 - Page 5 Empty Re: Zimmerman trial Monday, July 1 7/3/2013, 12:05 am

Nekochan

Nekochan

Dreamsglore wrote:HLN After Dark just had another jury panel voting on whether Martin could have reached for his gun.They all voted no. One guy who was a criminal defense atty (black) said he voted no because Z lied about his money.WTF? This is why I have little faith in juries.

How would they know if Martin could have reached for the gun?

116Zimmerman trial Monday, July 1 - Page 5 Empty Re: Zimmerman trial Monday, July 1 7/3/2013, 12:26 am

Guest


Guest

Nekochan wrote:
Dreamsglore wrote:HLN After Dark just had another jury panel voting on whether Martin could have reached for his gun.They all voted no. One guy who was a criminal defense atty (black) said he voted no because Z lied about his money.WTF? This is why I have little faith in juries.

How would they know if Martin could have reached for the gun?

They did a reenactment of the fight? Some people said he couldn't have reached for his gun because he said Martin's hands were on his nose and mouth. I just don't get the way people think? Did they think Martin couldn't have stopped holding his mouth and then reached for his gun? It just goes to show you even when faced w/ other possibilities once people decide something they will find ways to not believe anything else.

117Zimmerman trial Monday, July 1 - Page 5 Empty Re: Zimmerman trial Monday, July 1 7/3/2013, 12:47 am

2seaoat



How would they know if Martin could have reached for the gun?



Mr Zimmerman's own words as given to the man who testified today when he waited for Mr. Zimmerman to finish his interrogation having picked up his wife. The prosecution did a very good job getting into evidence this inconsistent statement made to his friend on the ride home.

Nekochan

Nekochan

2seaoat wrote:How would they know if Martin could have reached for the gun?



Mr Zimmerman's own words as given to the man who testified today when he waited for Mr. Zimmerman to finish his interrogation having picked up his wife.  The prosecution did a very good job getting into evidence this inconsistent statement made to his friend on the ride home.

The friend testified that holster/gun meant the same thing to him.  He did not say that Zimmerman told him that Martin did not reach for his gun.  And he certainly did not say that Zimmerman told him that Martin could not have reached for his gun.

PBulldog2

PBulldog2

Dreamsglore wrote:
jose balu wrote:
Dreamsglore wrote:I had a closed head injury in 2006 from a car accident. There were two contusions above my ear. The Dr.explained to me although the cat scan could detect bleeding on the brain they couldn't detect nerve and blood vessel damage. He said the brain only has a small space around it before the skull begins. If you have a blow to your head it knocks the brain to the other side and it is very difficult to tell what is affected. The blood will eventually reroute itself but they can't tell how much damage it has done. They have to go by the symptoms. An MRI is a little more conclusive. In my case,it affected my eye on the opposite side of my head and they had to do a vitrectomy which is removing all the eye gel from the eyeball. It replaces it self but you can symptoms more than a year after a blow to the head including epilepsy in later years. His skull could have cracked which wouldn't be visible to the naked eye or picture.
My hubby suffered a severe tbi in 1991. He has deteriorated mentally, fairly steadily since that time. All tbi's are different. His sucks pretty bad. At least he is still here :)I'm glad you're alright. Were you knocked unconscious?

And nothing, at all, that I have read or heard, points to any kind of a brain injury. He ( Zimmerman) also does not act like he had any brain trauma. At least not a lasting kind. There's a certain look in the eyes that I have not seen in his.

Thank You. Yes, I was knocked unconscious which was good for the guy that hit me as he told the cops it was my fault. I was in  and out of consciousness really as I remember someone trying to get me out of the car but I don't remember being hit or being in the ambulance. My car was totaled and the other guy's truck windshield was blown out on impact. His truck was totaled too. He hit me in my back door and knocked me across the median into the oncoming traffic. I was very fortunate  he  didn't hit me on the driver's door as he hit me going at a high rate of speed which spun my car in circles where I hit my head on the side door panel twice. I got shingles where the seat belt had been from the physical trauma. I didn't get blisters like in normal shingles until a month later which was about three. They couldn't figure out what was causing the pain until the blisters showed up. I had some memory loss and headaches for awhile.

Dreams, we do have something in common. I had a TBI back in '81 after an ultralight airplane accident. Although I broke a few bones, I was in the hospital for two weeks as a result of the TBI. I was fortunate to have had a helmet on.

I remember very little about those two weeks. The weeks after are fuzzy, too. I never got the records, and they're gone now, so I don't even know what was officially diagnosed.

During my recovery period, I was much more focused on learning to walk again than I was on the possible issues with my head injury. I was young, and I do regret I never requested those records.

2seaoat



The friend testified that holster/gun meant the same thing to him. He did not say that Zimmerman told him that Martin did not reach for his gun. And he certainly did not say that Zimmerman told him that Martin could not have reached for his gun.


I think you missed completely how critical this testimony was. First, in the book he reported that Zimmerman said clearly that he grabbed the gun. This was contrary to what he had just told the police an hour earlier when he had clearly told them that he was concerned that his jacket had worked its way up exposing his holster to Martin. The Prosecution is grinding.....building, and after yesterday they may actually have started to challenge Zimmerman's credibility which in light of the medical examiner, his friend, and the Hannity interview which had counsel sitting right next to him when he said he did not know about stand your ground......this man is a not too clever liar. The state has taken witnesses out of order to wait for defense's cases to strike admission of his criminal law Jr college school records, and even a chapter from a book which he had in that course which dealt with stand your ground. He has F'd up. The state is showing that he clearly saw and heard the neighbor who said he was calling the police. The state has clearly shown that Zimmerman left his car and followed Martin on a dark night. That upon the meeting with Martin he made a movement to his pocket for his cell phone, and was struck by a high school kid who has been stalked and followed across the development as he returned to his father's home which was a block further down the dog run sidewalk. Whether Martin stopped when Zimmerman came upon him, or turned and walked toward Zimmerman, Martin saw this man going for his pocket.

I think the State has laid a foundation that Zimmerman is a liar. I also think that the Defense would be insane to put him on the stand because cross examination would last days and they would be brutal showing that his story is incredible. His own words that he did not know he had killed the kid until they told him at the police station. Anybody who thinks this is a slam dunk has not been paying attention. As I said weeks ago......I think Sal has been the most accurate in his predictions, but the beauty of a Jury trial is that one of these six can hang this jury. A hung jury......the grinders will be back, and eventually the defense team will run out of room.
I am a long way from saying this jury will find him guilty, but I am not a long way from reviewing the evidence which has now been admitted, and I am certain......beyond a reasonable doubt.....that Zimmerman is a liar....that alone may not make him a criminal.....need to see more.

Nekochan

Nekochan

Seaoat, I understand where the state is going with "did Martin reach for the gun or didn't he?".......

But on the show Dreams was talking about the question was:  COULD Martin have reached for the gun?    I was speaking only to that question in my response.

122Zimmerman trial Monday, July 1 - Page 5 Empty Re: Zimmerman trial Monday, July 1 7/3/2013, 10:50 am

Guest


Guest

You are also certain I made up a thread and posted to myself saying I was mentally ill so based on that alone I find your assessments to be way out in left field again. The state did not prove Z heard the neighbor say he was calling the police and even if he did Z called the police himself and they were not there and there's no telling if they would have gotten there before Martin killed him. Sal has taken positions that are not in evidence so his conclusions are not based on reality.

123Zimmerman trial Monday, July 1 - Page 5 Empty Re: Zimmerman trial Monday, July 1 7/3/2013, 11:35 am

Sal

Sal

Dreamsglore wrote:Sal has taken positions that are not in evidence so his conclusions are not based on reality.

Well, I may not know as much about BET awards shows, Jamie Foxx, and the lazy, shiftless parents on the red carpet as do you, but I try to remain as firmly rooted in reality as possible, nonetheless.

lol

124Zimmerman trial Monday, July 1 - Page 5 Empty Re: Zimmerman trial Monday, July 1 7/3/2013, 11:36 am

Joanimaroni

Joanimaroni

All state witnesses have benefited the defense.

125Zimmerman trial Monday, July 1 - Page 5 Empty Re: Zimmerman trial Monday, July 1 7/3/2013, 11:40 am

Guest


Guest

Sal wrote:
Dreamsglore wrote:Sal has taken positions that are not in evidence so his conclusions are not based on reality.

Well, I may not know as much about BET awards shows, Jamie Foxx, and the lazy, shiftless parents on the red carpet as do you, but I try to remain as firmly rooted in reality as possible, nonetheless.

lol

Ha ha ha! Not really.

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