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What do you think of the Supreme Court's decision re the Affordable Care Act?

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Guest


Guest
Slicef18 wrote:
alecto wrote:
Slicef18 wrote:
More people are not being put into the system. These people are already in the system as they now go to the E.R. for healthcare and they pay nothing.
Under Obama's plan they will be forced to go the a Dr.s office or a clinic. which has a fraction of the cost of an E.R. visit.

You will always have a segment our society that will pay absolutely nothing, that will not buy insurance from the exchanges, that are to poor. These people will still be using the ER's as doctors offices. You still have the problem of the 20+ million illegal immigrants who will still use the ER.

You are wrong sir. When these runny nosed patients realize they are not going to be seen in the E.R. but will be seen in the Outpatient Clinic. the word will get around.

If I am not mistaken someone who has no insurance will still be able to go to an ER and that ER will have to see them. Are the clinics completely free, can I go to one right now be seen by someone and walk out with out paying a dime?

Guest


Guest
Slicef18 wrote:
chrissy8 wrote:oh, one more thing. Europe doesnt have a succesful medical system.

and they are bankrupt.

You are so very wrong. Where in the world did you get that information.
You'll look long and hard to find any person who would be willing to trade their healthcare for what we have here in America. Europe financial problems have nothing to do with healthcare.
Your "and they are bankrupt" is not true, All of Europe is not bankrupt. One could use your, "and they are bankrupt" and apply it to automobiles , housing, and even cheese or wine

I have a good friend who left England because it was a two year wait for his wife to get her appendix removed. The day after they arrived here it was removed and they never went back to England. He rails about the rationed care, the long waits for the simplest procedures, and the poor quality of healthcare professionals. If our quality of care was so bad people wouldn't be coming here to get things done.

PBulldog2

PBulldog2


You dont need to know my way of living. all you need to know is my life is and has been dedicated to providing superior healthcare to patients. i am a extreme advocate for quality, I am well versed in all major compliance legalities. federal and state.

Hospitals have been scared of this since 2010. All kinds of medical companies have been worried about this since then.

I think your the one who has mis-represented yourself as something your not. because you couldnt be this nieve. or maybe your just old and retired and dont know what the deal is anymore, like many here.

You're an "extreme advocate" for quality care yet you "don't give a crap" about one person's experience? Wow. Double wow, actually.

If you don't care about poor quality of care given to one person, you are no advocate for quality. You are an advocate for positive averages of the whole, perhaps, but you are NOT an advocate for quality. After what you wrote, don't even try and pretend you are.

Slicef18

Slicef18
alecto wrote:
Slicef18 wrote:
chrissy8 wrote:oh, one more thing. Europe doesnt have a succesful medical system.

and they are bankrupt.

You are so very wrong. Where in the world did you get that information.
You'll look long and hard to find any person who would be willing to trade their healthcare for what we have here in America. Europe financial problems have nothing to do with healthcare.
Your "and they are bankrupt" is not true, All of Europe is not bankrupt. One could use your, "and they are bankrupt" and apply it to automobiles , housing, and even cheese or wine

I have a good friend who left England because it was a two year wait for his wife to get her appendix removed. The day after they arrived here it was removed and they never went back to England. He rails about the rationed care, the long waits for the simplest procedures, and the poor quality of healthcare professionals. If our quality of care was so bad people wouldn't be coming here to get things done.

That sir is crap. Elective procedures such as getting a tummy tuck or circumcision do have a waiting period that can be long. Emergency procedures such as heart attack, broken bone or appendicitis are emergencies and get immediate medical attention. Let me assure you, anyone who had an appendicitis and waited two years would have developed peritonitis after a few days and would have been long dead. this is a medical certainty. Up until the early 20th century and anesthesia was developed, people died of an appendicitis by the tens of thousands. In those days it was called "Inflamed Bowel Syndrome."

"If our quality of care was so bad people wouldn't be coming here to get things done?"

This is easy, people from Europe don't come to Pensacola, Milton, Panama City or Montgomery for their medical care. They go to the Mayo Clinic, MD Anderson, Sloan Kettering, Cleveland Clinic, or John Hopkins.

Guest


Guest
PBulldog2 wrote:


You dont need to know my way of living. all you need to know is my life is and has been dedicated to providing superior healthcare to patients. i am a extreme advocate for quality, I am well versed in all major compliance legalities. federal and state.

Hospitals have been scared of this since 2010. All kinds of medical companies have been worried about this since then.

I think your the one who has mis-represented yourself as something your not. because you couldnt be this nieve. or maybe your just old and retired and dont know what the deal is anymore, like many here.

You're an "extreme advocate" for quality care yet you "don't give a shit" about one person's experience? Wow. Double wow, actually.

I care about each individual patient. But in the BIG PICTURE you cant get so emotional with a bad experiance. You continue to focus on doing the best for all.

heres your idea, my momma blah blah had a bad experiance, the whole hopistal is bad boo hoo.

fact is 10,000 other people came in and got exactly what they needed and some of their lives were saved< purpose of healthcare.

Qualioty of care means measurments/stats and yes there is a deviation that is acceptible. hey, go look up HCAPS, all hospitals values are posted on line.

satisfaction measured, pay based

In the BIG picture, you cant spend all your time on one person, that one person IS part of the process and IS valuble. But at the end of the day, its always the big picture. sorry you dont like it. I realize this type of thinking is only for movers and shakers. You cant be a whiny baby in this harsh bussiness.

PBulldog2

PBulldog2
chrissy8 wrote:
PBulldog2 wrote:


You dont need to know my way of living. all you need to know is my life is and has been dedicated to providing superior healthcare to patients. i am a extreme advocate for quality, I am well versed in all major compliance legalities. federal and state.

Hospitals have been scared of this since 2010. All kinds of medical companies have been worried about this since then.

I think your the one who has mis-represented yourself as something your not. because you couldnt be this nieve. or maybe your just old and retired and dont know what the deal is anymore, like many here.

You're an "extreme advocate" for quality care yet you "don't give a shit" about one person's experience? Wow. Double wow, actually.

I care about each individual patient. But in the BIG PICTURE you cant get so emotional with a bad experiance. You continue to focus on doing the best for all.

heres your idea, my momma blah blah had a bad experiance, the whole hopistal is bad boo hoo.

fact is 10,000 other people came in and got exactly what they needed and some of their lives were saved< purpose of healthcare.

Qualioty of care means measurments/stats and yes there is a deviation that is acceptible. hey, go look up HCAPS, all hospitals values are posted on line.

satisfaction measured, pay based

In the BIG picture, you cant spend all your time on one person, that one person IS part of the process and IS valuble. But at the end of the day, its always the big picture. sorry you dont like it. I realize this type of thinking is only for movers and shakers. You cant be a whiny baby in this harsh bussiness.

That's one of the biggest differences in my outlook and yours. You perceive health care as a "harsh business", while I perceive it as caring combined with the art of healing.


Guest


Guest
Slicef18 wrote:
alecto wrote:
Slicef18 wrote:
chrissy8 wrote:oh, one more thing. Europe doesnt have a succesful medical system.

and they are bankrupt.

You are so very wrong. Where in the world did you get that information.
You'll look long and hard to find any person who would be willing to trade their healthcare for what we have here in America. Europe financial problems have nothing to do with healthcare.
Your "and they are bankrupt" is not true, All of Europe is not bankrupt. One could use your, "and they are bankrupt" and apply it to automobiles , housing, and even cheese or wine

I have a good friend who left England because it was a two year wait for his wife to get her appendix removed. The day after they arrived here it was removed and they never went back to England. He rails about the rationed care, the long waits for the simplest procedures, and the poor quality of healthcare professionals. If our quality of care was so bad people wouldn't be coming here to get things done.

That sir is crap. Elective procedures such as getting a tummy tuck or circumcision do have a waiting period that can be long. Emergency procedures such as heart attack, broken bone or appendicitis are emergencies and get immediate medical attention. Let me assure you, anyone who had an appendicitis and waited two years would have developed peritonitis after a few days and would have been long dead. this is a medical certainty. Up until the early 20th century and anesthesia was developed, people died of an appendicitis by the tens of thousands. In those days it was called "Inflamed Bowel Syndrome."

"If our quality of care was so bad people wouldn't be coming here to get things done?"

This is easy, people from Europe don't come to Pensacola, Milton, Panama City or Montgomery for their medical care. They go to the Mayo Clinic, MD Anderson, Sloan Kettering, Cleveland Clinic, or John Hopkins.

Yes, it is crap and typical of the lies of the right but in this case it is almost insulting to think people would believe that. My mother got sick in Germany and spent a week in the hospital during a vacation.The care was excellent and way above what she gets here. She had a procedure there three times in that week that when she came back home took 6 months to schedule here.

83What do you think of the Supreme Court's decision re the Affordable Care Act? - Page 4 Empty could be a job creator on 7/1/2012, 12:14 pm

Guest


Guest
This could very well be a job creator if the small employer is smart. If your business is under 50 and you're now paying half of the employee group insurance you should drop the group coverage Jan 1, 2014 give everyone a $100 or $200 month raise and let them know it's for them to purchase their own insurance because at this point the ones with pre existing conditions will be insurable and most will fall into the subsidy category. Take the savings and hire employees. There is no penalty for employers under 50 under the health care reform.

Even over 50 is cheaper to pay the penalties.

VectorMan

VectorMan
PBulldog2 wrote:Allow me to give another view on current ED care and the effect it has on those who are truly ill.

Several days ago, I took a friend to a local ED with chest pain. Instead of being taken back immediately, as would have happened in the old days of true triage nursing, he was left to stand at the desk. After standing there for about five minutes, he was directed to sign in and state his complaint in writing.

I wrote "chest pain" as his complaint. About five minutes later, he was taken in to the so-called triage area and assessed.

Fortunately, after being kept in the hospital for two days, my friend AK is doing well. He didn't have an MI.

In the old days, patients saw the triage nurse first thing, as soon as they walked through the door. They did NOT have a clipboard pushed at them by a bored clerk who asked them to sign in. Also, chest pain was a priority back then. No more. Instead, all patients sign in and then wait to have their vital signs taken. That is NOT triage.

The quality of emergency health care has declined incredibly over the last 30 years. I have to wonder if it's not partially because the ED staff are complacent and lackadaisical due to the high number of non-emergent patients they see now.

As an aside: As I sat with my friend in the ED room, he was asked by another clerk if he could pay anything on his bill that day. He was also told his deductible would be higher since he was being admitted. This was said to a person who was having chest pain and may have had an MI (heart attack.) I told the clerk to get the hell out.

If you believe ObamaCare is going to make your experience in the ER better, I have a bridge to sell you.

All you have to do is look at how our government has handled all of our other "social" programs. They screw it up, every time and all the time.

In the end, I don't think this is really the legacy Obama wants. Time will tell and then it'll be history.

November is going to be pretty amazi
ng.

ABO

Guest


Guest
VectorMan wrote:
PBulldog2 wrote:Allow me to give another view on current ED care and the effect it has on those who are truly ill.

Several days ago, I took a friend to a local ED with chest pain. Instead of being taken back immediately, as would have happened in the old days of true triage nursing, he was left to stand at the desk. After standing there for about five minutes, he was directed to sign in and state his complaint in writing.

I wrote "chest pain" as his complaint. About five minutes later, he was taken in to the so-called triage area and assessed.

Fortunately, after being kept in the hospital for two days, my friend AK is doing well. He didn't have an MI.

In the old days, patients saw the triage nurse first thing, as soon as they walked through the door. They did NOT have a clipboard pushed at them by a bored clerk who asked them to sign in. Also, chest pain was a priority back then. No more. Instead, all patients sign in and then wait to have their vital signs taken. That is NOT triage.

The quality of emergency health care has declined incredibly over the last 30 years. I have to wonder if it's not partially because the ED staff are complacent and lackadaisical due to the high number of non-emergent patients they see now.

As an aside: As I sat with my friend in the ED room, he was asked by another clerk if he could pay anything on his bill that day. He was also told his deductible would be higher since he was being admitted. This was said to a person who was having chest pain and may have had an MI (heart attack.) I told the clerk to get the hell out.

If you believe ObamaCare is going to make your experience in the ER better, I have a bridge to sell you.

All you have to do is look at how our government has handled all of our other "social" programs. They screw it up, every time and all the time.

In the end, I don't think this is really the legacy Obama wants. Time will tell and then it'll be history.

November is going to be pretty amazi
ng.

There is no need to go to the ER if you have Obamacare.BTW, Medicare and Tricare are govt. run programs-they're pretty successful.

ABO

PBulldog2

PBulldog2
VectorMan wrote:
PBulldog2 wrote:Allow me to give another view on current ED care and the effect it has on those who are truly ill.

Several days ago, I took a friend to a local ED with chest pain. Instead of being taken back immediately, as would have happened in the old days of true triage nursing, he was left to stand at the desk. After standing there for about five minutes, he was directed to sign in and state his complaint in writing.

I wrote "chest pain" as his complaint. About five minutes later, he was taken in to the so-called triage area and assessed.

Fortunately, after being kept in the hospital for two days, my friend AK is doing well. He didn't have an MI.

In the old days, patients saw the triage nurse first thing, as soon as they walked through the door. They did NOT have a clipboard pushed at them by a bored clerk who asked them to sign in. Also, chest pain was a priority back then. No more. Instead, all patients sign in and then wait to have their vital signs taken. That is NOT triage.

The quality of emergency health care has declined incredibly over the last 30 years. I have to wonder if it's not partially because the ED staff are complacent and lackadaisical due to the high number of non-emergent patients they see now.

As an aside: As I sat with my friend in the ED room, he was asked by another clerk if he could pay anything on his bill that day. He was also told his deductible would be higher since he was being admitted. This was said to a person who was having chest pain and may have had an MI (heart attack.) I told the clerk to get the hell out.

If you believe ObamaCare is going to make your experience in the ER better, I have a bridge to sell you.

All you have to do is look at how our government has handled all of our other "social" programs. They screw it up, every time and all the time.

In the end, I don't think this is really the legacy Obama wants. Time will tell and then it'll be history.

November is going to be pretty amazi
ng.

I wasn't saying the ACA would make care any better. What I was saying is care already stinks at some places, even though we supposedly have the best health care in the world.

ABO

I wasn't saying the ACA would make care any better. What I was saying is care already is already in sharp decline at some facilities, even though we supposedly have "the best health care system in the world." I was also referencing the fact that EMTALA has affected ED care in ways that were not intended.



Markle

Markle
Slicef18 wrote:
chrissy8 wrote:oh, one more thing. Europe doesnt have a succesful medical system.

and they are bankrupt.

You are so very wrong. Where in the world did you get that information.
You'll look long and hard to find any person who would be willing to trade their healthcare for what we have here in America. Europe financial problems have nothing to do with healthcare.
Your "and they are bankrupt" is not true, All of Europe is not bankrupt. One could use your, "and they are bankrupt" and apply it to automobiles , housing, and even cheese or wine

Why then do so many come here to America for treatment? People like what they have, you know what they say about change. If you had only eaten ground beef, you probably would not be willing to trade that for a whole hunk of New York Strip you'd have to cut.

Yes, all Europe is not bankrupt. ONLY those countries refusing to reign in their Socialist government handouts. INCLUDING health care.

NHS budget squeeze to blame for longer waiting times, say doctors

Latest performance data reveal number of English patients waiting more than 18 weeks has risen by 26% in last year.

New NHS performance data reveal that the number of people in England who are being forced to wait more than 18 weeks has risen by 26% in the last year, while the number who had to wait longer than six months has shot up by 43%.

In March this year, 34,639 people, or 11% of the total, waited more than that time to receive inpatient treatment, compared with 27,534, or 8.3%, in March 2010 – an increase of 26% – Department of Health statistics show.

Similarly, in March this year some 11,243 patients who underwent treatment had waited for more than six months, compared with 7,841 in the same month in 2010 – a 43% rise.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2011/may/19/nhs-hospital-waiting-times-longer

Yet somehow you believe this is somehow superior to care in the United States. Right....

Markle

Markle
Dreamsglore wrote:
Slicef18 wrote:
alecto wrote:
Slicef18 wrote:
chrissy8 wrote:oh, one more thing. Europe doesnt have a succesful medical system.

and they are bankrupt.

You are so very wrong. Where in the world did you get that information.
You'll look long and hard to find any person who would be willing to trade their healthcare for what we have here in America. Europe financial problems have nothing to do with healthcare.
Your "and they are bankrupt" is not true, All of Europe is not bankrupt. One could use your, "and they are bankrupt" and apply it to automobiles , housing, and even cheese or wine

I have a good friend who left England because it was a two year wait for his wife to get her appendix removed. The day after they arrived here it was removed and they never went back to England. He rails about the rationed care, the long waits for the simplest procedures, and the poor quality of healthcare professionals. If our quality of care was so bad people wouldn't be coming here to get things done.

That sir is crap. Elective procedures such as getting a tummy tuck or circumcision do have a waiting period that can be long. Emergency procedures such as heart attack, broken bone or appendicitis are emergencies and get immediate medical attention. Let me assure you, anyone who had an appendicitis and waited two years would have developed peritonitis after a few days and would have been long dead. this is a medical certainty. Up until the early 20th century and anesthesia was developed, people died of an appendicitis by the tens of thousands. In those days it was called "Inflamed Bowel Syndrome."

"If our quality of care was so bad people wouldn't be coming here to get things done?"

This is easy, people from Europe don't come to Pensacola, Milton, Panama City or Montgomery for their medical care. They go to the Mayo Clinic, MD Anderson, Sloan Kettering, Cleveland Clinic, or John Hopkins.

Yes, it is crap and typical of the lies of the right but in this case it is almost insulting to think people would believe that. My mother got sick in Germany and spent a week in the hospital during a vacation.The care was excellent and way above what she gets here. She had a procedure there three times in that week that when she came back home took 6 months to schedule here.

I'm sorry but your ancedote is worthless. Aside from the fact that Germany has a two tier system of health care. The haves and the have nots.

Americans have better survival rates than Europeans for common cancers. Breast cancer mortality is 52 percent higher in Germany than in the United States, and 88 percent higher in the United Kingdom. Prostate cancer mortality is 604 percent higher in the U.K. and 457 percent higher in Norway. The mortality rate for colorectal cancer among British men and women is about 40 percent higher.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob
Markle wrote:

Americans have better survival rates than Europeans for common cancers. Breast cancer mortality is 52 percent higher in Germany than in the United States, and 88 percent higher in the United Kingdom. Prostate cancer mortality is 604 percent higher in the U.K. and 457 percent higher in Norway. The mortality rate for colorectal cancer among British men and women is about 40 percent higher.
what's your source for that?

boards of FL

boards of FL
alecto wrote:
Admin wrote:And where has alecto ran off to?

Sorry some people have to work to pay for your healthcare. I have posted links that talk about the new taxes which you apparently want to ignore or you just do not comprehend what is in those links. So here is another link for you to ignore so you can come back and ask "The question is how is this the largest tax increase in American history?"

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/06/29/Seven-new-taxes

The reality is when you put more people into a system you have to pay for it, to pay for it you have to raise taxes. If I do not buy insurance I will have a extra $2085 added to my taxes at the end of the year. I don't know what planet you live on but I have never had a tax increase like that before. Have you? Now keep in mind when the government argued there case before the supreme court it was all about interstate commerce but the supreme court saw it for what it was, a TAX.




Can you read? Perhaps we hold different ideas as to the definition of the terms "largest" and "history"? One more time for alecto: nothing you have posted supports the idea that the affordable care act is the "largest tax increase in American history".

If you really want to support your claim, you will need to do something along the lines of showing what was previously the largest tax increase in American history, and then showing that the affordable care act poses a greater increase than that.

I'm beginning to wonder if you even read your own links, as I find it hard to believe you could come away from any of them with "largest tax increase in American history."

It's like if I were to tell you "Tim Tebow holds the record for most touchdown passes by a quarterback in the history of the NFL" You then ask me to prove that, so I give various youtube vids of Tim Tebow throwing touchdown passes. You then explain to me that showing Tebow throwing a touchdown pass does not equate to proving he has thrown more touchdown passes than anyone in history. I then tell you "Dude, you're like, ignore my links, man! Here is another link for you to ignore! (another vid of Tebow throwing a touchdown pass) This totally proves I'm right!"

Sal

Sal
The CBO has said the mandate penalty will raise $27 billion over the next decade. Do the math. Calling this a "tax increase" is debatable, but even if it is one, it's clearly one of the smallest increases ever. Anyone claiming that this is the largest tax increase in history is either completely ignorant or a liar.

Guest


Guest
salinsky wrote:The CBO has said the mandate penalty will raise $27 billion over the next decade. Do the math. Calling this a "tax increase" is debatable, but even if it is one, it's clearly one of the smallest increases ever. Anyone claiming that this is the largest tax increase in history is either completely ignorant or a liar.

How about both..................

93What do you think of the Supreme Court's decision re the Affordable Care Act? - Page 4 Empty Source for Cancer Survival on 7/2/2012, 8:43 pm

Markle

Markle
ButtMan wrote:
Markle wrote:

Americans have better survival rates than Europeans for common cancers. Breast cancer mortality is 52 percent higher in Germany than in the United States, and 88 percent higher in the United Kingdom. Prostate cancer mortality is 604 percent higher in the U.K. and 457 percent higher in Norway. The mortality rate for colorectal cancer among British men and women is about 40 percent higher.
what's your source for that?

Concord Working Group, "Cancer survival in five continents: a worldwide population-based study,.S. abe at responsible for the countries, in chronnologies, " Lancet Oncology, Vol. 9, No. 8, August 2008, pages 730 - 756; Arduino Verdecchia et al., "Recent Cancer Survival in Europe: A 2000-02 Period Analysis of EUROCARE-4 Data," Lancet Oncology, Vol. 8, No. 9, September 2007, pages 784 - 796.

Markle

Markle
salinsky wrote: The CBO has said the mandate penalty will raise $27 billion over the next decade. Do the math. Calling this a "tax increase" is debatable, but even if it is one, it's clearly one of the smallest increases ever. Anyone claiming that this is the largest tax increase in history is either completely ignorant or a liar.

You are clearly playing with a short deck. Please show us a couple of examples, of government entitlement programs, which have ended up costing LESS than the initial estimates prior to our being sold the bill of goods.

PLUS the penalties, "taxes" PLUS what is collected from Insurance Companies.

Are you including the $500 BILLION CUT in Medicare?

What do you think of the Supreme Court's decision re the Affordable Care Act? - Page 4 HealthCareTaxes

You're quite humorous!

lol!

boards of FL

boards of FL
Markle wrote:
salinsky wrote: The CBO has said the mandate penalty will raise $27 billion over the next decade. Do the math. Calling this a "tax increase" is debatable, but even if it is one, it's clearly one of the smallest increases ever. Anyone claiming that this is the largest tax increase in history is either completely ignorant or a liar.

You are clearly playing with a short deck. Please show us a couple of examples, of government entitlement programs, which have ended up costing LESS than the initial estimates prior to our being sold the bill of goods.

PLUS the penalties, "taxes" PLUS what is collected from Insurance Companies.

Are you including the $500 BILLION CUT in Medicare?

What do you think of the Supreme Court's decision re the Affordable Care Act? - Page 4 HealthCareTaxes

You're quite humorous!

lol!

According to your chart, the affordable care act equates to an increase in tax revenue of $675.3 billion over 10 years - or, $67.5 billion per year. We could debate this figure as well, but who cares. Let's just assume for a second that Markle is correct. Cough.

Given a GDP of roughly $15 trillion dollars, the affordable care represents a tax increase of 0.48% of GDP.

Now, Markle, is a tax increase that amounts to 0.48% of GDP the greatest tax increase in American history?

Alecto?

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/jun/28/rush-limbaugh/health-care-law-not-largest-tax-increase-us-histor/

1. Revenue Act of 1942: 5.04 percent of GDP;

2. Revenue Act of 1961: 2.2 percent of GDP;

3. Current Tax Payment Act of 1943: 1.13 percent of GDP;

4. Revenue and Expenditure Control Act of 1968: 1.09 percent of GDP;

5. Excess Profits Tax of 1950: .97 percent of GDP;

Here are more modern tax increases for comparison:

1. Revenue and Expenditure Control Act of 1968: 1.09 percent of GDP;

2. Tax Equity and Fiscal Responsibility Act of 1982: .8 percent of GDP;

3(t): Crude Oil Windfall Profit Tax Act of 1980: .5 percent of GDP

3(t): Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1993; .5 percent of GDP;

5: Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1990; .49 percent of GDP.


Are you two ready to stand corrected now?

Markle

Markle
boards of FL wrote:
Markle wrote:
salinsky wrote: The CBO has said the mandate penalty will raise $27 billion over the next decade. Do the math. Calling this a "tax increase" is debatable, but even if it is one, it's clearly one of the smallest increases ever. Anyone claiming that this is the largest tax increase in history is either completely ignorant or a liar.

You are clearly playing with a short deck. Please show us a couple of examples, of government entitlement programs, which have ended up costing LESS than the initial estimates prior to our being sold the bill of goods.

PLUS the penalties, "taxes" PLUS what is collected from Insurance Companies.

Are you including the $500 BILLION CUT in Medicare?

What do you think of the Supreme Court's decision re the Affordable Care Act? - Page 4 HealthCareTaxes

You're quite humorous!

lol!

According to your chart, the affordable care act equates to an increase in tax revenue of $675.3 billion over 10 years - or, $67.5 billion per year. We could debate this figure as well, but who cares. Let's just assume for a second that Markle is correct. Cough.

Given a GDP of roughly $15 trillion dollars, the affordable care represents a tax increase of 0.48% of GDP.

Now, Markle, is a tax increase that amounts to 0.48% of GDP the greatest tax increase in American history?

Alecto?

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/jun/28/rush-limbaugh/health-care-law-not-largest-tax-increase-us-histor/

1. Revenue Act of 1942: 5.04 percent of GDP;

2. Revenue Act of 1961: 2.2 percent of GDP;

3. Current Tax Payment Act of 1943: 1.13 percent of GDP;

4. Revenue and Expenditure Control Act of 1968: 1.09 percent of GDP;

5. Excess Profits Tax of 1950: .97 percent of GDP;

Here are more modern tax increases for comparison:

1. Revenue and Expenditure Control Act of 1968: 1.09 percent of GDP;

2. Tax Equity and Fiscal Responsibility Act of 1982: .8 percent of GDP;

3(t): Crude Oil Windfall Profit Tax Act of 1980: .5 percent of GDP

3(t): Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1993; .5 percent of GDP;

5: Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1990; .49 percent of GDP.


Are you two ready to stand corrected now?


CBO: Obamacare to cost $1.76 trillion over 10 yrs

March 13, 2012

President Obama's national health care law will cost $1.76 trillion over a decade, according to a new projection released today by the Congressional Budget Office, rather than the $940 billion forecast when it was signed into law.

http://washingtonexaminer.com/article/1175831

You're gullibility is what got this president elected.



Last edited by Markle on 7/4/2012, 1:41 am; edited 1 time in total

othershoe1030

othershoe1030
Not so fast. They're not done yet!

Response to the Supreme Court’s Decision Regarding the Affordable Care Act

2
june 28, 2012
CBO is in the process of reviewing the Supreme Court’s decision related to the Affordable Care Act to assess the effect on CBO’s projections of federal spending and revenue under current law. We expect that this assessment will probably take some time.
http://www.cbo.gov/publication/43362

othershoe1030

othershoe1030
Not everything can be condensed to fit on a bumper sticker. This is a complicated law with more than a few provisions. Anyone who wants to get out in the weeds over this thing can poke around on the CBO site.
http://www.cbo.gov/search/apachesolr_search?keys=aca+savings&op=search

Markle

Markle
othershoe1030 wrote: Not so fast. They're not done yet!

Response to the Supreme Court’s Decision Regarding the Affordable Care Act

2
june 28, 2012
CBO is in the process of reviewing the Supreme Court’s decision related to the Affordable Care Act to assess the effect on CBO’s projections of federal spending and revenue under current law. We expect that this assessment will probably take some time.
http://www.cbo.gov/publication/43362

And you think the cost estimate is going DOWN?

What do you think of the Supreme Court's decision re the Affordable Care Act? - Page 4 AnimatedLaughterPink

boards of FL

boards of FL
Markle wrote:
boards of FL wrote:
Markle wrote:
salinsky wrote: The CBO has said the mandate penalty will raise $27 billion over the next decade. Do the math. Calling this a "tax increase" is debatable, but even if it is one, it's clearly one of the smallest increases ever. Anyone claiming that this is the largest tax increase in history is either completely ignorant or a liar.

You are clearly playing with a short deck. Please show us a couple of examples, of government entitlement programs, which have ended up costing LESS than the initial estimates prior to our being sold the bill of goods.

PLUS the penalties, "taxes" PLUS what is collected from Insurance Companies.

Are you including the $500 BILLION CUT in Medicare?

What do you think of the Supreme Court's decision re the Affordable Care Act? - Page 4 HealthCareTaxes

You're quite humorous!

lol!

According to your chart, the affordable care act equates to an increase in tax revenue of $675.3 billion over 10 years - or, $67.5 billion per year. We could debate this figure as well, but who cares. Let's just assume for a second that Markle is correct. Cough.

Given a GDP of roughly $15 trillion dollars, the affordable care represents a tax increase of 0.48% of GDP.

Now, Markle, is a tax increase that amounts to 0.48% of GDP the greatest tax increase in American history?

Alecto?

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/jun/28/rush-limbaugh/health-care-law-not-largest-tax-increase-us-histor/

1. Revenue Act of 1942: 5.04 percent of GDP;

2. Revenue Act of 1961: 2.2 percent of GDP;

3. Current Tax Payment Act of 1943: 1.13 percent of GDP;

4. Revenue and Expenditure Control Act of 1968: 1.09 percent of GDP;

5. Excess Profits Tax of 1950: .97 percent of GDP;

Here are more modern tax increases for comparison:

1. Revenue and Expenditure Control Act of 1968: 1.09 percent of GDP;

2. Tax Equity and Fiscal Responsibility Act of 1982: .8 percent of GDP;

3(t): Crude Oil Windfall Profit Tax Act of 1980: .5 percent of GDP

3(t): Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1993; .5 percent of GDP;

5: Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1990; .49 percent of GDP.


Are you two ready to stand corrected now?


CBO: Obamacare to cost $1.76 trillion over 10 yrs

March 13, 2012

President Obama's national health care law will cost $1.76 trillion over a decade, according to a new projection released today by the Congressional Budget Office, rather than the $940 billion forecast when it was signed into law.

http://washingtonexaminer.com/article/1175831

You're gullibility is what got this president elected.


So now you're changing the subject. (Snaps fingers) Focus, man! Let me help you follow this very complex - cough - conversation.

1. You referred to the affordable care act as the "Largest Tax Increase in the History of the World".

2. I responded to that with "I'll bite. How is the upheld healthcare legislation the largest tax increase in the history of the world?"

3. You then provided a copy and pasted image that states the affordable care act will raise $675.3 in revenue over 10 years.

4. I explained to you that you're still not proving that that represents the largest tax increase in the history of the world.

5. You ran away.

6. Later, you repost your same image with the $675.3 figure in response to someone else, thus showing that this copy and pasted image represents the depth of your understanding in this matter.

7. I used your figure to derive the effect of the tax increase in terms of % of GDP so that it can be compared to other tax increases of the past. I proved to you that there are plenty of tax increases from the past that were much larger than that of the affordable care act. This renders your "Largest Tax Increase in the History of the World" figure wrong. You should stand corrected at this point.

8. You respond with more copy and paste, this time with claims about the cost of the affordable care act.


So, at this point, you leave me with no choice but to assume that you are either 1) not bright enough to follow a discussion 2) you don't know what the difference between "revenue" and "cost" is, or 3) you realize you're completely wrong and rather than simply stand corrected - the intelligent thing to do - you opt to remain willfully ignorant and post unrelated BS.

Second chance for Markle: Do you care to respond to my refutation of your parroted affordable care act talking point? See if you can discuss this in your own words, rather than repeat things you have heard grown-ups talking about on your TV.

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