Zimmerman prosecution witness cannot read her own letter

Exactly! The idea Seaoat says there were no clear blows when Zimmerman had a fractured nose is beyond ridiculous.

I am not speculating. I am listening to strictly what Good is saying, and he said he did not clearly see blows.....just a tussle. More evidence may be introduced which indicate what you have suggested, and certainly the police photo showing injuries was presented on cross.....but there has been no evidence to date which confirms what you have speculated.......common sense would suggest that Martin got blows in and in fact that would be expected with two people wrestling.

There is nothing inconsistent with not understanding why people do not get involved, and why they need to get a gun or knife to leave their home. Zimmerman had a gun. He knew the police were coming. If Mr. Good was truthful, he told them to knock it off and he was going to call the police.......so why would you go for your gun and kill someone in a simple fight.....I truly do not understand if I had called the cops, and a neighbor came out, why he was in such fear that he had to take the gun up to the persons heart and shoot from close range........Mr. Good was very precise he did not see someone beating the others head into the concrete.......we need more testimony to establish the exact way those injuries happened, but again.........did Mr. Zimmerman feel his life was at risk where he had to bring a gun to the heart of the other person in the described tussle.......I really hope he takes the stand.

Nekochan wrote:Well, in one thread, Seaoat is saying that we shouldn't wait for the police--we should just go outside and confront the guys who are fighting.  Then he says that Zimmerman, while having his head pounded into the concrete, should have waited for the police.

I don't get it, Seaoat--why should Zimmerman wait for the police when his neighbors inside their townhomes shouldn't have??

What should Zimmerman have done at the point Martin grabbed his gun? I mean come on? What Seaoat is saying is just plain crazy. This is why I believe Zimmerman will take the stand. He has to tell when Martin went for his gun.

2seaoat wrote:Exactly! The idea Seaoat says there were no clear blows when Zimmerman had a fractured nose is beyond ridiculous.

I am not speculating.   I am listening to strictly what Good is saying, and he said he did not clearly see blows.....just a tussle.   More evidence may be introduced which indicate what you have suggested, and certainly the police photo showing injuries was presented on cross.....but there has been no evidence to date which confirms what you have speculated.......common sense would suggest that Martin got blows in and in fact that would be expected with two people wrestling.

There is nothing inconsistent with not understanding why people do not get involved, and why they need to get a gun or knife to leave their home.   Zimmerman had a gun.  He knew the police were coming.  If Mr. Good was truthful, he told them to knock it off and he was going to call the police.......so why would you go for your gun and kill someone in a simple fight.....I truly do not understand if I had called the cops, and a neighbor came out, why he was in such fear that he had to take the gun up to the persons heart and shoot from close range........Mr. Good was very precise he did not see someone beating the others head into the concrete.......we need more testimony to establish the exact way those injuries happened, but again.........did Mr. Zimmerman feel his life was at risk where he had to bring a gun to the heart of the other person in the described tussle.......I really hope he takes the stand.

There is no evidence to indicate what I have suggested? Are you brain dead? Zimmerman had a fractured nose! His lips were swollen w/ injuries. You don't have to a rocket scientist to see there were blows delivered. WTH are you arguing anyway? Are you so intent on being right you ignore clear evidence and try to come up w/ off the wall gobblygook?

What should Zimmerman have done at the point Martin grabbed his gun? I mean come on? What Seaoat is saying is just plain crazy. This is why I believe Zimmerman will take the stand. He has to tell when Martin went for his gun.

I am commenting on the evidence. I am not joining your speculation. If Mr. Zimmerman wants to take the stand and tell us that Martin grabbed his gun, I will have this conversation. I certainly understand you thinking what I am saying is crazy. No surprise there. I am commenting on the evidence which has been introduced to the Jury......they are not soothsayers......I am not a soothsayer......we need to review facts in evidence.

http://www.wftv.com/news/news/zimmerman-trial-over-teens-death-enters-day-14/nYYMd/

Witness: Martin was on top of Zimmerman and 'punches were being thrown'


Good testified he saw a person in black clothing on top of another person with "white or red" clothing. He said he couldn't see faces but it looked like the person on the bottom had lighter skin.
Martin was black and was wearing a dark hoodie. Zimmerman identifies as Hispanic and was wearing a red jacket.
"It looked like there were strikes being thrown, punches being thrown," Good said.

There is no evidence to indicate what I have suggested? Are you brain dead? Zimmerman had a fractured nose! His lips were swollen w/ injuries. You don't have to a rocket scientist to see there were blows delivered. WTH are you arguing anyway? Are you so intent on being right you ignore clear evidence and try to come up w/ off the wall gobblygook?


Who is arguing. I have simply commented on the evidence. Please show me where the state has entered evidence that Zimmerman's nose was fractured, or any medical records or testimony from officers or other witnesses to his injuries. That evidence may come into the trial by the state, but it may not be until the defense case before we see medical records or testimony concerning those injuries. The key testimony by good was that he saw a tussle and that he did not see blows, or a head being banged on the concrete........that testimony may come into the trial at some point.......but I think I will wait for the same, and nothing in the photo of Zimmerman would be inconsistent with two people tussling as Good has described.

"downward" arm movements being made and that he could not see where those punches were landing.

He repeatedly said he was not certain that there were punches, rather arm movement on redirect. It is clear that in a tussle people are going to be hitting each other, but Good did not testify that Martin was pounding his head into the concrete.......he could have done that when he went to the phone, but the evidence did not show that. Mr. Good was credible, and his different methods of describing what he saw in my opinion were truthful and accurate. I think one has to ask in the thirty seconds or so from him going into the house and calling 911 when he heard the shot......how could Zimmerman feel it was necessary to bring the gun to the heart of Martin? This is a very good trial, and both sides are doing a great job. The totality of the evidence in the end will be interesting.

2seaoat wrote:"downward" arm movements being made and that he could not see where those punches were landing.

He repeatedly said he was not certain that there were punches, rather arm movement on redirect.   It is clear that in a tussle people are going to be hitting each other, but Good did not testify that Martin was pounding his head into the concrete.......he could have done that when he went to the phone, but the evidence did not show that.   Mr. Good was credible, and his different methods of describing what he saw in my opinion were truthful and accurate.  I think one has to ask in the thirty seconds or so from him going into the house and calling 911 when he heard the shot......how could Zimmerman feel it was necessary to bring the gun to the heart of Martin?   This is a very good trial, and both sides are doing a great job.  The totality of the evidence in the end will be interesting.

in the thirty seconds or so from him going into the house and calling 911 when he heard the shot......how could Zimmerman feel it was necessary to bring the gun to the heart of Martin?

How long can the average person endure having their head pounded into the concrete? At what point does the 'beating his head into the concrete' become life-threatening? Is 30 seconds a long time in this type of situation? What would have happened to Zimmerman had he lost consciousness with a visible gun in his waistband?

I think the timeline is being defined. Correct me if I am wrong. From Zimmerman calling the police to the first witness calling the police.....I have heard today that two minutes expired......this was not evidence, but a commentator looking at the times put into evidence and the zimmerman call which I believe has not been put into evidence.

During that time we have testimony that Martin was running away from Zimmerman.....at some point Zimmerman and Martin met.....either Martin turned back on Zimmerman.....or Zimmerman tracked down Martin....and then approximately 2 minutes of tussling........just too early to get these times exact.....but I think these general things will come out....Zimmerman tells the police he Martin....is running a little more than two minutes.....I think the totality of the evidence is the only way the state will get the conviction.....these two minutes are going to be key. Martin has some problems with what he told the police......but I will wait for the evidence......Mr. Good was a very key witness.

How long can the average person endure having their head pounded into the concrete? At what point does the 'beating his head into the concrete' become life-threatening? Is 30 seconds a long time in this type of situation? What would have happened to Zimmerman had he lost consciousness with a visible gun in his waistband?

I do not know. I would suggest that the timeline in light of Good's testimony is going to be critical. A little over two minutes from Zimmerman reporting Martin running away to the gunshot. If that timeline is put into evidence, and is correct.....it is mere speculation at this point.....then yes, one must raise some questions as to whether this tussle in the grass which rolled over to the sidewalk was life threatening which required an individual to bring a gun up to his heart. I think all are correct that Zimmerman probably must testify.........this is going to be very dangerous.....because why was Martin running if he was not afraid, and how the hell did Zimmerman catch him, tussle, and shoot in a two minute plus time frame.......I am beginning to see why the State felt comfortable with Good's testimony......the timeline once in evidence is going to be very very damning if Zimmerman was untruthful after the incident........by focusing on the tussle.....we are ignoring how we got to the tussle.....the state is being very clever on sequencing and I am beginning to see what is coming.....I will not speculate, but the timeline is going to be critical.

You're not going to like this witness either...he told his wife to stay away from the window and not to make it their business.

2seaoat wrote:How long can the average person endure having their head pounded into the concrete? At what point does the 'beating his head into the concrete' become life-threatening? Is 30 seconds a long time in this type of situation? What would have happened to Zimmerman had he lost consciousness with a visible gun in his waistband?

I do not know.  I would suggest that the timeline in light of Good's testimony is going to be critical.   A little over two minutes from Zimmerman reporting Martin running away to the gunshot.  If that timeline is put into evidence, and is correct.....it is mere speculation at this point.....then yes, one must raise some questions as to whether this tussle in the grass which rolled over to the sidewalk was life threatening which required an individual to bring a gun up to his heart.   I think all are correct that Zimmerman probably must testify.........this is going to be very dangerous.....because why was Martin running if he was not afraid, and how the hell did Zimmerman catch him, tussle, and shoot in a two minute plus time frame.......I am beginning to see why the State felt comfortable with Good's testimony......the timeline once in evidence is going to be very very damning if Zimmerman was untruthful after the incident........by focusing on the tussle.....we are ignoring how we got to the tussle.....the state is being very clever on sequencing and I am beginning to see what is coming.....I will not speculate, but the timeline is going to be critical.

Why was Martin running if he was not afraid, and how the hell did Zimmerman catch him


Perhaps Martin was running so he could double back and Zimmerman was the one caught.

Martin being a young boy...why didn't he run full speed to his dad's house and go inside. That is what his girlfriend told him...and Martin said he was right near his dad's house. Doesn't make since why he didn't do that.

2seaoat wrote:How long can the average person endure having their head pounded into the concrete? At what point does the 'beating his head into the concrete' become life-threatening? Is 30 seconds a long time in this type of situation? What would have happened to Zimmerman had he lost consciousness with a visible gun in his waistband?

I do not know.  I would suggest that the timeline in light of Good's testimony is going to be critical.   A little over two minutes from Zimmerman reporting Martin running away to the gunshot.  If that timeline is put into evidence, and is correct.....it is mere speculation at this point.....then yes, one must raise some questions as to whether this tussle in the grass which rolled over to the sidewalk was life threatening which required an individual to bring a gun up to his heart.   I think all are correct that Zimmerman probably must testify.........this is going to be very dangerous.....because why was Martin running if he was not afraid, and how the hell did Zimmerman catch him, tussle, and shoot in a two minute plus time frame.......I am beginning to see why the State felt comfortable with Good's testimony......the timeline once in evidence is going to be very very damning if Zimmerman was untruthful after the incident........by focusing on the tussle.....we are ignoring how we got to the tussle.....the state is being very clever on sequencing and I am beginning to see what is coming.....I will not speculate, but the timeline is going to be critical.

None of that damn matters. All that has to be established is reasonable doubt. Good established Zimmerman was on the bottom and Zimmerman has injuries to support that. Zimmerman determines whether he was in fear for his life. He had a reasonable fear he was going to be killed-self defense.

I haven't seen the prosecution or defense point out where Trayvon's father's fiance's house is in relation to where he was killed. But that is a good point, Joani.

None of that damn matters. All that has to be established is reasonable doubt. Good established Zimmerman was on the bottom and Zimmerman has injuries to support that. Zimmerman determines whether he was in fear for his life. He had a reasonable fear he was going to be killed-self defense.


Then it is becoming more important for Mr. Zimmerman to testify......a prosecutor's dream.

2seaoat wrote:What should Zimmerman have done at the point Martin grabbed his gun? I mean come on? What Seaoat is saying is just plain crazy. This is why I believe Zimmerman will take the stand. He has to tell when Martin went for his gun.

I am commenting on the evidence.  I am not joining your speculation.  If Mr. Zimmerman wants to take the stand and tell us that Martin grabbed his gun, I will have this conversation.   I certainly understand you thinking what I am saying is crazy.   No surprise there.  I am commenting on the evidence which has been introduced to the Jury......they are not soothsayers......I am not a soothsayer......we need to review facts in evidence.

Martin did a reenactment for the police. It is not speculation on my part. I saw the video. It is part of the police statements and evidence. You can keep acting like an ass about it that' s your choice.

I haven't seen the prosecution or defense point out where Trayvon's father's fiance's house is in relation to where he was killed. But that is a good point, Joani.

My understanding is that his dad's home was at the other end of the sidewalk that ran behind the witnesses back yard. Less than two blocks probably. Two minute timeline from the point Zimmerman reports Martin running away and the shot..........I think the one witness who saw Martin on the bottom, and the one witness who saw Martin on top, do in fact show that the tussle did happen, and that it was responsible for Zimmerman's injuries. I think with the current witness there is no chance that Zimmerman inflicted any of those wounds after he shot Martin to give cover to his actions. The one neighbor was out there pretty quick.....so one thing the evidence has show so far......the injuries to Zimmerman more probably than not were inflicted by Martin in the scuffle............I think the bald defense lawyer is being too aggressive with witnesses where his partner is doing an excellent job getting favorable evidence.

None of that damn matters. All that has to be established is reasonable doubt.

ahhhh it does not matter......what if the jury instructions include manslaughter instructions......ooops.

There is still more to come. I don't think any forensic evidence has been introduced?
But...so far, the prosecution's case doesn't look so great.

Martin did a reenactment for the police. It is not speculation on my part. I saw the video. It is part of the police statements and evidence. You can keep acting like an ass about it that' s your choice.

It is not in evidence. It is not evidence until those facts are before the jury. You do not know what evidence will be admitted until the same has been introduced to the jury. I am not acting like an ass. I am using precise language with someone who simply has repeatedly demonstrated a lack of understanding. I try to correct simple misinformation.

There is still more to come. I don't think any forensic evidence has been introduced?
But...so far, the prosecution's case doesn't look so great.


I think I have seen where they are going.....I am not so sure there case is that weak until I see what jury instructions they go with......straight up second degree........I agree that to date....no prima facia case, nor do I agree with anybody who says based on the evidence introduced so far that guilt can be determined or not determined. The State must finish their case. I would suggest that I had originally thought that more time had passed between the time Zimmerman told 911 that he was running away, and the time of the shot. This came as a shock that we are talking about a little more than two minutes.

Martin being a young boy...why didn't he run full speed to his dad's house and go inside. That is what his girlfriend told him...and Martin said he was right near his dad's house. Doesn't make since why he didn't do that.


Because Martin was going to get that creepy ass cracker! Martin should of went inside and called cops but instead his racist thug mentality kicked in, He attacked Zimm and lost.

Martin was under school suspension at the time of his death:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Trayvon_Martin


Martin had been suspended from school at the time of his death, his third disciplinary suspension of the year.[44] One suspension was for tardiness. Another suspension was for graffiti, when Martin was observed by a security camera in a restricted area of the school marking up a door with "W.T.F." When he was later searched by a Miami-Dade School Police Department officer, looking for the graffiti marker, the officer found several pieces of women's jewelry in his backpack, which Martin said were not his, stating a friend had given them to him. A screwdriver was also found, which was described by the school police investigator as a burglary tool. The jewelry was impounded and given to the police, but no evidence ever surfaced to indicate that the jewelry was stolen. Martin's third suspension involved a marijuana pipe, and an empty bag containing marijuana residue. Martin was not charged with any crime related to these incidents and did not have a juvenile record

He attacked Zimm and lost.

Again, people putting into evidence their speculation.....this is not in evidence.....there have been two witnesses who have testified to one or the other being on top at one time.....we do not know who attacked the other from the evidence. However, if you were paying attention to the pretrial motions, you would understand why your other post has not been found to be relevant.....but carry on.....the evidence does get dry at times.....it is always fun to see someone do magic.

‘IF ZIMMERMAN GET OFF, IMA GO KILL A WHITE BOY’: TRAYVON MARTIN SUPPORTERS MAKE SHOCKING THREATS AHEAD OF VERDICT

As the murder trial of George Zimmerman marches on, supporters of slain teen Trayvon Martin are vowing to carry out disturbing and deadly acts of violence if Zimmerman is not found guilty.

Twitter has been buzzing with death threats against Zimmerman (and random white people…and for the truly ambitious, an “hispanic/white” person) if the verdict isn’t guilty as charged in the murder trial in which Zimmerman is pleading self-defense in his fatal shooting of Martin.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/06/27/if-zimmerman-get-off-ima-go-kill-a-white-boy-trayvon-martin-supporters-make-shocking-threats-ahead-of-verdict/


We'll probably hear from Sharpton if the riots start.