For all the critics of this prosecution.......you have been gutted.....jury gets this case

The state just decimated all those folks who said this was a political prosecution.......they made a prima facia case..........to all those who wanted to make this simply about race.......well it is not.

This case is about a liar.........who may or may not have murdered a kid who was walking home from the store.....black....white.....hispanic matters little..........we have a great system.

We all knew the judge was not going to give a directed verdict. It is too politically explosive to do that. Not a brilliant statement Seaoat.

Dreams,
If you are going to try to have an intelligent conversation, start with a discussion of what was argued in the motions......not who or what I am. Omara made brilliant arguments and gave ample case law in my opinion which should have granted the aquittal. The only standard which could counter the clear law in Florida was only one thing........the state showed Zimmerman was a serial liar. They did. The court ruled. The Defense had a huge loss, one that I did not fully understand until listening to his brilliant recital of the self defense standards in Florida. Omara is the best, but he now has a problem........everything Zimmerman has said about what happened is suspect. The self defense argument has been defeated as a matter of law. Now Zimmerman can testify, or there can be clear physical evidence which proves self defense.........the superficial injuries have clearly been found not to be self defense under the Walker standard....shocking. I have said from the beginning that I have no dog in this hunt, and that all I ever wanted was a trial......I was ridiculed as not knowing what I was talking about....that the state had no case.....that this was political........well, the judge has agreed with me that in fact the State did build a prima facia case.......now we will see if the defense can rebut their case. Do not care at all what the jury rules.....does not matter a bit......this is simply a great system.

Dreamsglore wrote:We all knew the judge was not going to give a directed verdict. It is too politically explosive to do that. Not a brilliant statement Seaoat.

   



The judge is not going to put herself and her family in harm's way. You cannot dismiss the fact George Zimmerman had a price put on his head....no one wants to be put in that position.

The judge is not going to put herself and her family in harm's way. You cannot dismiss the fact George Zimmerman had a price put on his head....no one wants to be put in that position.


Maybe......but how about the evidence..........I think the judge ruled on the evidence......the same thing I have been seeing for the last three days of this trial........Omara in a news conference has said he was a bit surprised by the state not bringing more family member witnesses, and more law enforcement witnesses...........I smell a bit of the Governor Rod strategy to hold back witnesses........if Martin takes the stand......kabooom on impeachment.......if he does not......well they are not going to be able to meet the jury instruction of self defense.........all this talk about blacks, and racial issues........nope....this was pretty mundane......a common liar at a crime scene.....the folks who wanted the otherwise were squashed today. This case has very little to do with race.....it has more to do with somebody who screwed up and his lies.....well they have not worked.

2seaoat wrote:Dreams,
If you are going to try to have an intelligent conversation, start with a discussion of what was argued in the motions......not who or what I am.   Omara made brilliant arguments and gave ample case law in my opinion which should have granted the aquittal.   The only standard which could counter the clear law in Florida was only one thing........the state showed Zimmerman was a serial liar.   They did.   The court ruled.  The Defense had a huge loss, one that I did not fully understand until listening to his brilliant recital of the self defense standards in Florida.  Omara is the best, but he now has a problem........everything Zimmerman has said about what happened is suspect.   The self defense argument has been defeated as a matter of law.   Now Zimmerman can testify, or there can be clear physical evidence which proves self defense.........the superficial injuries have clearly been found not to be self defense under the Walker standard....shocking.  I have said from the beginning that I have no dog in this hunt, and that all I ever wanted was a trial......I was ridiculed as not knowing what I was talking about....that the state had no case.....that this was political........well, the judge has agreed with me that in fact the State did build a prima facia case.......now we will see if the defense can rebut their case.  Do not care at all what the jury rules.....does not matter a bit......this is simply a great system.

Seaoat, you have made it clear from the beginning you did not believe Zimmerman. You are not an unbiased observer, that is clear. I don't have a dog in the fight either but from the evidence presented and the injuries Zimmerman had sustained this is a self defense case. Zimmerman was under no obligation to wait until Martin killed him before he defended himself. There is more than enough evidence Martin was the aggressor and Zimmerman thought his life was in danger. The defense has not even presented their case yet and I'm sure they will have a ME testify they were significant injuries. Judges make errors all the time and just because this judge did not want to rule on this case is not surprising at all. I'd have bet she wouldn't give a directed verdict. She would forever be haunted by that ruling. This was a case that needed to be decided by the jury to stop all this racial dissension.This judge would have never put herself in that position and I don't blame her. She didn't agree w/ you at all. She just took the easy way out.

2seaoat wrote:The judge is not going to put herself and her family in harm's way. You cannot dismiss the fact George Zimmerman had a price put on his head....no one wants to be put in that position.


Maybe......but how about the evidence..........I think the judge ruled on the evidence......the same thing I have been seeing for the last three days of this trial........Omara in a news conference has said he was a bit surprised by the state not bringing more family member witnesses, and more law enforcement witnesses...........I smell a bit of the Governor Rod strategy to hold back witnesses........if Martin takes the stand......kabooom on impeachment.......if he does not......well they are not going to be able to meet the jury instruction of self defense.........all this talk about blacks, and racial issues........nope....this was pretty mundane......a common liar at a crime scene.....the folks who wanted the otherwise were squashed today.   This case has very little to do with race.....it has more to do with somebody who screwed up and his lies.....well they have not worked.

It doesn't have anything to do w/ race to the white people bit to the blacks it does.

There is more than enough evidence Martin was the aggressor and Zimmerman thought his life was in danger.

This is where I strongly disagree. I think the timeline and the Zimmerman's admissions on tape make it clear to me that if he was not the aggressor, why all the lies......the lies were never necessary unless Zimmerman knew he was the aggressor........I think Zimmerman murdered this kid and the scuffle was all about a scared kid being profiled and followed in the dark after he ran, and by Zimmerman's own admission as they met he reached into his pocket to get his phone.

Let me ask what some of you folks would do if you are being followed by a creepy cracker as Martin said to his girlfriend......why would you run. Has anybody been followed on the road. When you are being followed in your car do rush home and pop up the garage door, or do you head for a public area where you have not lead the person to your home. Martin's father's house was about a block and a half down that sidewalk.....there were no bushes to hide.......at some point he stopped and probably did use swear words....something like what the hell are you following me......which any one of us would have explained that we are part of the neighborhood watch or talked to him like a human being......Zimmerman went for his phone, and clearly in his testimony never explained why he had followed this man for blocks........this has been what is so incredible to me from the get go.......the disclosure of the three days a week MMA training and the careful evidence which the state has put into evidence makes it clear to me.........a non liar would have identified themselves much earlier......this was a hunt.......and the real question should have always been self defense by Mr. Martin........but we had all this political stand your ground......the second amendment........showing this kid as a gangbanger with tatoos........kicked out of school because he was a gangbanging trouble maker......then we listened to his brother, and his mother.......the folks who wanted this to be about race and politics......today we realized we were talking about a 5'11" inch just turned 17 year old kid who defended himself from a hunter.....looking for those types.......and with a few seconds of struggle decided to summarily execute this kid.........I may be completely wrong.....but if these lies are not explained......the jury will rule and I am now pretty sure manslaughter is in the bag, but murder 2 will be all about closing arguments and how much attention the jury has given.

What I'd like to know is "what are all the lies"? Please explain that.

Dreamsglore wrote:What I'd like to know is "what are all the lies"? Please explain that.

It's just seaoat being seaoat Dreams, so don't let his rambling blubberings get you down. Zimmerman is innocent but we all know what this is about RACE and nothing much else.

Just another Tawana Brawley stinkin up the court system...next you know some hooker will falsely accuse some lacrosse team...

He has a pressing need to prove he's not racist.

It's just seaoat being seaoat

Pure Seaoat.....no doubt. However, this is really not about me......Sal called this right from the get go.........I simply said he had the best argument. No doubt in my mind Zimmerman is a murderer.......now if Zimmerman takes the stand, or their is impeaching scientific evidence which can explain all the lies......I am all ears......and so is the jury.....what I think.......matters not......this is a great trial with great fundamental arguments which have nothing to do with polemics or race in my opinion.

2seaoat wrote:There is more than enough evidence Martin was the aggressor and Zimmerman thought his life was in danger.

This is where I strongly disagree.   I think the timeline and the Zimmerman's admissions on tape make it clear to me that if he was not the aggressor, why all the lies......the lies were never necessary unless Zimmerman knew he was the aggressor........I think Zimmerman murdered this kid and the scuffle was all about a scared kid being profiled and followed in the dark after he ran, and by Zimmerman's own admission as they met he reached into his pocket to get his phone.

Let me ask what some of you folks would do if you are being followed by a creepy cracker as Martin said to his girlfriend......why would you run.   Has anybody been followed on the road.    When you are being followed in your car do rush home and pop up the garage door, or do you head for a public area where you have not lead the person to your home.   Martin's father's house was about a block and a half down that sidewalk.....there were no bushes to hide.......at some point he stopped and probably did use swear words....something like what the hell are you following me......which any one of us would have explained that we are part of the neighborhood watch or talked to him like a human being......Zimmerman went for his phone, and clearly in his testimony never explained why he had followed this man for blocks........this has been what is so incredible to me from the get go.......the disclosure of the three days a week MMA training and the careful evidence which the state has put into evidence makes it clear to me.........a non liar would have identified themselves much earlier......this was a hunt.......and the real question should have always been self defense by Mr. Martin........but we had all this political stand your ground......the second amendment........showing this kid as a gangbanger with tatoos........kicked out of school because he was a gangbanging trouble maker......then we listened to his brother, and his mother.......the folks who wanted this to be about race and politics......today we realized we were talking about a 5'11" inch just turned 17 year old kid who defended himself from a hunter.....looking for those types.......and with a few seconds of struggle decided to summarily execute this kid.........I may be completely wrong.....but if these lies are not explained......the jury will rule and I am now pretty sure manslaughter is in the bag, but murder 2 will be all about closing arguments and how much attention the jury has given.

O'Mara wanted to introduce who Martin really was but was denied. Martin was in a fight club and they had a lot of evidence this kid was aggressive and violent. He just said after today's court they were plenty prepared to present this evidence they had. The whole truth has not been presented in this trial. This defense team has been excellent,though.I don't care if Martin 16 or 17. He was the size of a man and when you take adult actions like he did, you get adult responses. I've known many teens who were more dangerous than grown men. His age should not be an issue. He was bigger than Zimmerman and much stronger.

2seaoat wrote:It's just seaoat being seaoat

Pure Seaoat.....no doubt.   However, this is really not about me......Sal called this right from the get go.........I simply said he had the best argument.   No doubt in my mind Zimmerman is a murderer.......now if Zimmerman takes the stand, or their is impeaching scientific evidence which can explain all the lies......I am all ears......and so is the jury.....what I think.......matters not......this is a great trial with great fundamental arguments which have nothing to do with polemics or race in my opinion.

You would be wrong. Your logic is way off.

What I'd like to know is "what are all the lies"? Please explain that.


I think in fairness you have not had an opportunity to perhaps watch as much as I have, and I too have missed witnesses. For the people who have been paying attention to the detail l the state has laid down, and understand the relevancy, like Sal.....the lies are obvious and frequent. I would prefer to not rehash evidence over the last three weeks and argue with you about me being stupid.......however, I will happily discuss next week the defense case as evidence is introduced and why it is relevant and important, or to discuss todays motions or testimony. I love intelligent dialogue, but I arguing about something three weeks ago is simply not productive. I will be commenting on different witnesses, and you simply call me a liar or you did not hear something when I focus on the evidence.

Today when the defense had the uncle testify he was working on his computer and heard the TV and heard the newscast on the 911 screams and knew right there that it was George. The Defense putting the mother on the stand was smart. This witness reminded me of the ME.......pretty far fetched testimony which was unnecessary after the mother testified it was her son.....cumulative and questionable.

Hell Obama is a murderer that flat ordered a hit on 3 American citizens without a trial so it seems this race thing has gone on to become a license to murder whoever he wishes. So will there be a trial NO , will there be justice ?...NO. Does anyone give a damn about the FACT our president's a murderer, NO.

The whole truth has not been presented in this trial.

It never does allow what you call "the whole truth". I could see you now on a rape case thinking that the swinger club that the victim belonged to was relevant as she walked down the dog run and was raped.....fortunately the swinger club would give as you call the whole truth, but its prejudicial to the victim and its probative value does not outweigh the risk of prejudice. No Omara was caught off guard because the state did not call the father......if they called the father and the state was careless, they may have opened the door as to why Travon was at his dad's house. He was suspended because of pot. 10days. If this door was opened, they could have got the toxology report from the ME into evidence and at one point I thought there was going to be a mistrial because the defense had been gutted by a clever state who did not open the door to the irrelevant.......Omara was truely caught off guard, and his sidekick slamming his papers on the podium as the judge roughly put him in place as to what the motions in Liminie were.........no your whole truth is a standard of the law.....hundreds of years of allowing probative evidence while protecting against prejudicial evidence.......nope some with limited knowledge will bring this into the race and politics......you cannot handicap stupidity.....and we all do not start on the same line on the blocks.....it depends what lane we are in.

Where have you been? The ME testified to the pot in Martin's system. The door has been opened already.

Where have you been? The ME testified to the pot in Martin's system. The door has been opened already.


I could be rude, but I think your mistake is honest. The camera is not allowed to show the jury. So when you do not understand the process, you would think that the ME actually testified to pot being in Martin's system. He did this outside the presence of the jury. The State had filed something called a motion in Liminie.....I misspell this all the time, but what it is......is a preliminary ruling by the court to keep certain evidence from the jury. The judge stood her ground, but once the jury was brought back in West simply lost his composure.....they were pissed.....they had been outplayed by the State.......so he kept trying to talk about the toxology report as to where the blood draw was made......the judge had none of it.......in fairness to you without seeing the jury or understanding the arguments, people would assume the jury was hearing that portion of the examination of ME.

The OJ trial was a lot more fair and honest. 
I guess if Trayvon has cracked Zimmerman's skull and killed him, this wouldn't even had made the news.

2seaoat wrote:Where have you been? The ME testified to the pot in Martin's system. The door has been opened already.


I could be rude, but I think your mistake is honest.   The camera is not allowed to show the jury.  So when you do not understand the process, you would think that the ME actually testified to pot being in Martin's system.  He did this outside the presence of the jury.   The State had filed something called a motion in Liminie.....I misspell this all the time, but what it is......is a preliminary ruling by the court to keep certain evidence from the jury.   The judge stood her ground, but once the jury was brought back in West simply lost his composure.....they were pissed.....they had been outplayed by the State.......so he kept trying to talk about the toxology report as to where the blood draw was made......the judge had none of it.......in fairness to you without seeing the jury or understanding the arguments, people would assume the jury was hearing that portion of the examination of ME.

Well, I'll admit you are probably correct on that.I've been watching it in bits and pieces.

Well, I'll admit you are probably correct on that.I've been watching it in bits and pieces.

I have made the same mistake at least twice when I thought.....what the hell am I hearing.....then I realize the jury was gone......there is no real good tv station which gives you a constant flow without breaks....it is very confusing at times.

I haven't watched it all either. But you know--all 6 of those jurors have to think beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman is guilty. I just don't think the prosecution as made a great case, but we'll see how the defense does and then we'll see who is right about the verdict.

I have no clue what the jury will do. I honestly think they do get it right half the time. I am of the opinion you don't have the right to physically attack anyone for any reason and if you do you take your chances of how they defend themselves within reason. I don't think if someone punches you in the face you have the right to kill them but if they are mercilessly beating you and you fear for your life then yes...it is self-defense.

Dreamsglore wrote:I have no clue what the jury will do. I honestly think they do get it right half the time. I am of the opinion you don't have the right to physically attack anyone for any reason and if you do you take your chances of how they defend themselves within reason. I don't think if someone punches you in the face you have the right to kill them but if they are mercilessly beating you and you fear for your life then yes...it is self-defense.

The thug could have had a knife for all Zimmerman knew.

It was said Treyvon was suspended from school for swinging at his bus driver. I don't know how true it is but it was supposedly on his facebook.