Zimmerman prosecution witness cannot read her own letter

.I do not think the judge feels the state has met their burden.....otherwise she should not have let that into evidence.....at this time.

My feeling at this time is that we may see a directed verdict at the state close by this being allowed. We will see on her other evidence rulings, but this is classic cover my butt on appeal handling of objections. She will be very brave if she does a directed verdict in this case.


Also to help folks....double jeopardy does not allow the defendant to be retried absent exceptional conditions, but a directed verdict can be appealed, and prosecutors constantly will appeal judges rulings regardless of that particular defendant being retried, who will be protected from double jeopardy.

BP....for someone who does not read my posts......you sure do know the contents......I think we have established that some ghosts are real.....and some are not.

Nekochan wrote:At this point, I don't know if her testimony matters much.

Her testimony in my opinion will not be considered. She admitted she changed her story when Martin's mother was sitting on the couch w/ her. She later added the "get off". I don't believe that was ever said by Martin.

They can't, Neko. Oats is full of sheet! NG verdict is the end of the case.

Ah....a little bit of knowledge, and still clueless.

Oh, well I don't think there will be a directed verdict. I just don't see the judge going that route. But we'll see.


I would have to look at the pleadings. I believe most certainly that some charges could have a directed verdict if the state fails to make a prima facia case. This however does not mean that the jury will not get to go to verdict on other instructions. We will see where the evidence goes.....but allowing the MMA into evidence did not go to the injury question.....it was back door and not relevant to the injuries.......this should have been redacted.

VectorMan wrote:‘IF ZIMMERMAN GET OFF, IMA GO KILL A WHITE BOY’: TRAYVON MARTIN SUPPORTERS MAKE SHOCKING THREATS AHEAD OF VERDICT

As the murder trial of George Zimmerman marches on, supporters of slain teen Trayvon Martin are vowing to carry out disturbing and deadly acts of violence if Zimmerman is not found guilty.

Twitter has been buzzing with death threats against Zimmerman (and random white people…and for the truly ambitious, an “hispanic/white” person) if the verdict isn’t guilty as charged in the murder trial in which Zimmerman is pleading self-defense in his fatal shooting of Martin.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/06/27/if-zimmerman-get-off-ima-go-kill-a-white-boy-trayvon-martin-supporters-make-shocking-threats-ahead-of-verdict/


We'll probably hear from Sharpton if the riots start.

And I saw a clip this morning with Martin's mother....she said this is not about race. If it were black on black, white on white, or Hispanic on Hispanic we would not be having a trial. Also, the president would not have chimed in describing what his son would look like, if he had one.

Not once, during any of the murders in Chicago (450 children killed in one year) did Obama make a profound statement as he did in this case. Not once did the media jump on the band wagon regarding any the 450 children murdered in Chicago.

SENSATIONALISM!

2seaoat wrote:.I do not think the judge feels the state has met their burden.....otherwise she should not have let that into evidence.....at this time.

My feeling at this time is that we may see a directed verdict at the state close by this being allowed. We will see on her other evidence rulings, but this is classic cover my butt on appeal handling of objections.   She will be very brave if she does a directed verdict in this case.


Also to help folks....double jeopardy does not allow the defendant to be retried absent exceptional conditions, but a directed verdict can be appealed, and prosecutors constantly will appeal judges rulings regardless of that particular defendant being retried, who will be protected from double jeopardy.

BP....for someone who does not read my posts......you sure do know the contents......I think we have established that some ghosts are real.....and some are not.

What are the exceptional conditions a defendant can be retried after a NG verdict besides jury tampering?

SENSATIONALISM!

I disagree. This case should have been prosecuted. It was. We will see what the jury decides.......if they get the case, but in the end I will take a bet with anybody on this forum that the parents are not going to get up and yell racism.....will not happen.

2seaoat wrote:They can't, Neko. Oats is full of sheet! NG verdict is the end of the case.

Ah....a little bit of knowledge, and still clueless.

Based on the evidence if the jury decides a NG it cannot be retired unless there are jury or other things like that. You keep throwing in these red herrings that don't apply trying to sound ultra knowledgeable.

2seaoat wrote:SENSATIONALISM!

I disagree.  This case should have been prosecuted.  It was. We will see what the jury decides.......if they get the case, but in the end I will take a bet with anybody on this forum that the parents are not going to get up and yell racism.....will not happen.

You have no clue of what the parents say behind closed doors. They won't do it publicly but they do believe Martin was profiled.

What are the exceptional conditions a defendant can be retried after a NG verdict besides jury tampering?


Absolutely clueless. First, a prosecution appealing a decision of the court does not necessarily mean that the defendant is retried. Our double jeopardy provisions in the fifth amendment limit the same. Prosecutor's constantly appeal judicial error.

Now if the judge takes the case out of the hands of the jury, and gives a directed verdict as a matter of law.........then a defendant MAY be retried, but not necessarily as a matter of law. Appeals of judicial error do not equal putting a defendant into double jeopardy. I will let the person who made the claim that they can retry a defendant with jury tampering make his argument. That is not my argument.

You have no clue of what the parents say behind closed doors. They won't do it publicly but they do believe Martin was profiled.

I never claimed the same. I simply do not believe there will be riots and I believe the parents will thank the prosecutors for their good faith effort. I do not have to eavesdrop on their private conversations to have the opinion that this has been a fair trial, and a fair attempt to achieve justice.

Seaoat is right but I have never thought that there would be a directed verdict.

2seaoat wrote:What are the exceptional conditions a defendant can be retried after a NG verdict besides jury tampering?


Absolutely clueless.   First, a prosecution appealing a decision of the court does not necessarily mean that the defendant is retried.  Our double jeopardy provisions in the fifth amendment limit the same.   Prosecutor's constantly appeal judicial error.

Now if the judge takes the case out of the hands of the jury, and gives a directed verdict as a matter of law.........then a defendant MAY be retried, but not necessarily as a matter of law.   Appeals of judicial error do not equal putting a defendant into double jeopardy.  I will let the person who made the claim that they can retry a defendant with jury tampering make his argument.   That is not my argument.

You're not making sense here. The issue was about appealing a NG verdict. Now you're bringing in a directed verdict? Nobody as far as I could see said anything about appealing a directed verdict. You're talking about two different things.You made the statement you could be retried after a NG verdict under exceptional conditions. Now what are they?

Nekochan wrote:Seaoat is right but I have never thought that there would be a directed verdict.  

The defense usually asks for a directed verdict but there are issues of evidence to be determined and they usually never grant that in these cases.

2seaoat wrote:SENSATIONALISM!

I disagree.  This case should have been prosecuted.  It was. We will see what the jury decides.......if they get the case, but in the end I will take a bet with anybody on this forum that the parents are not going to get up and yell racism.....will not happen.

They won't have to...but it will be done if Zimmerman is found not guilty.

2seaoat wrote:What are the exceptional conditions a defendant can be retried after a NG verdict besides jury tampering?


Absolutely clueless.   First, a prosecution appealing a decision of the court does not necessarily mean that the defendant is retried.  Our double jeopardy provisions in the fifth amendment limit the same.   Prosecutor's constantly appeal judicial error.

Now if the judge takes the case out of the hands of the jury, and gives a directed verdict as a matter of law.........then a defendant MAY be retried, but not necessarily as a matter of law.   Appeals of judicial error do not equal putting a defendant into double jeopardy.  I will let the person who made the claim that they can retry a defendant with jury tampering make his argument.   That is not my argument.

No argument to make. Just a comment I read when doing research. Not sure if there is any case law but it does make sense because the acquittal was obtained through fraudulent means. I'm not an attorney but everything I read indicates that a directed verdict is not subject to appeal. Can you site any case law to the contrary.

.I think it was error......but if the defendant is found not guilty......and the state appeals......what are they going to appeal?

This is what I posted originally. People posted things about not retrying the defendant. I explained that double jeopardy does not allow the retrying of a defendant, and some people referenced jury tampering. That was not my argument, and in fact the general rule is that a defendant will not be exposed to double jeopardy.....and in fact there are exceptions....one exception is where the judge takes the decision away from the jury and rules on a directed verdict for the defense. The gap in your knowledge is that you think an appeal equals a retrial of a defendant. I hope this has been helpful, but most states have an office which only handles appeals on behalf of the prosecutors who want judicial errors in evidence or procedure to be ruled on........this does not equal retrying the defendant. No judge wants the appeals court giving them a failing grade on the trial. So I had shown my concerns that as a general rule, when a judge is ruling in favor of your opponent on every evidentiary ruling......you are winning the case.....this is where I began discussing the chance that a directed verdict may now be on the table based on the evidence today.......I know legal concepts are difficult for you to understand, but I think my posts have been straightforward. If you want to have somebody help you look up those extraordinary situations where double jeopardy does not apply, I am sure you could go over to the courthouse and talk to the law librarian, but my argument is not that the defendant will be retried, but the judge is displaying behavior that looks like a directed, or looks like she does not want any ammunition on any appeals....easy concepts for most who have understood this thread, but I understand you are trying to learn.

I'm not an attorney but everything I read indicates that a directed verdict is not subject to appeal. Can you site any case law to the contrary.

Please take the time to google an interlocutory appeal. I think this will help you understand what I am talking about. I was going to teach this subject matter in the early 70s, and my career took a different turn, but most of this stuff is simple common sense. Interlocutory appeal in google should help understand what I have posted.

I think it's been a bad week for the prosecution and I think the jury will issue the verdict. I think a jury decision is the only way it can be resolved.

2seaoat wrote:.I think it was error......but if the defendant is found not guilty......and the state appeals......what are they going to appeal?

This is what I posted originally.  People posted things about not retrying the defendant.  I explained that double jeopardy does not allow the retrying of a defendant, and some people referenced jury tampering.   That was not my argument, and in fact the general rule is that a defendant will not be exposed to double jeopardy.....and in fact there are exceptions....one exception is where the judge takes the decision away from the jury and rules on a directed verdict for the defense.  The gap in your knowledge is that you think an appeal equals a retrial of a defendant.  I hope this has been helpful, but most states have an office which only handles appeals on behalf of the prosecutors who want judicial errors in evidence or procedure to be ruled on........this does not equal retrying the defendant.  No judge wants the appeals court giving them a failing grade on the trial.   So I had shown my concerns that as a general rule, when a judge is ruling in favor of your opponent on every evidentiary ruling......you are winning the case.....this is where I began discussing the chance that a directed verdict may now be on the table based on the evidence today.......I know legal concepts are difficult for you to understand, but I think my posts have been straightforward.  If you want to have somebody help you look up those extraordinary situations where double jeopardy does not apply, I am sure you could go over to the courthouse and talk to the law librarian, but my argument is not that the defendant will be retried, but the judge is displaying behavior that looks like a directed, or looks like she does not want any ammunition on any appeals....easy concepts for most who have understood this thread, but I understand you are trying to learn.

This is what you said, Seaoat. What are the exceptional conditions a case can be retried?

Also to help folks....double jeopardy does not allow the defendant to be retried absent exceptional conditions,


but a directed verdict can be appealed, and prosecutors constantly will appeal judges rulings regardless of that particular defendant being retried, who will be protected from double jeopardy.

I think it's been a bad week for the prosecution and I think the jury will issue the verdict. I think a jury decision is the only way it can be resolved.


The state can certainly still win this trial. However, the evidence ruling was troubling.......they have put on 22 witnesses and I do not believe they can get by a motion for directed verdict without much more evidence which better addresses the two minutes......the judge could take an easy answer and not grant the directed verdict......then this is going to be very tough on the defense team.....do they put Zimmerman on the stand.....the central question I have raised for months.......all good stuff. This is a very good trial.....more like the real world.

If the prosecution doesn't do any better next week than they did this week, I don't think Zimmerman will even have to testify.

This is what you said, Seaoat. What are the exceptional conditions a case can be retried?


This was not my argument. Another poster gave an example of an exceptional condition. You are trying to make me say that an prosecutorial appeal means a retrial of the defendant.....I know you do not understand much when it comes to legal concepts, but I never posted that, I simply recognized another posters example of an exception. Maybe this will help you from the Supreme Court last year....read the Supreme Court case and get informed. I doubt you will be able to understand the actual case.....but read the article as a start

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/24/supreme-court-double-jeopardy-arkansas-murder-alex-blueford_n_1542396.html

"Also to help folks....double jeopardy does not allow the defendant to be retried absent exceptional conditions,"

You're saying you didn't post this? I'm not trying to make you say anything. You brought in to this regarding appeals. Nobody is or was talking about the prosecution appealing errors during the trial. That's not an interest anyone cares about.

You're saying you didn't post this?

I posted it. Read the Supreme Court case and learn......but as I originally posted.....Prosecutors appeal verdicts all the time.......it is not the same as a retrial of a defendant......I asked you earlier.....do you understand this?

So tell me what the Supreme Court said about the Missouri case? Lets see if it registered........