Zimmerman prosecution witness cannot read her own letter

This trial, if nothing else, has brought a clash of cultures to light.
We have problems in this country and I don't know the solutions. It just makes me sad.

This trial, if nothing else, has brought a clash of cultures to light.
We have problems in this country and I don't know the solutions. It just makes me sad.


The trial is straight up and fair. Stupid people say things, but it does not change the facts. This trial is professionally being handled, and justice as we know it will be rendered. Nobody is going to riot, or for that matter even get upset. I will bet if Zimmerman is found not guilty, the parents will thank the state, and say they did a good job. They are not going to feel injustice was done here. I do not see it. The wussification of America is complete, and if shooting a person who you are in a scuffle with is where we are today......some scratches on your head, bloodied lips, and a broken nose......sounds like an hour after we used to play tackle football without uniforms......geez......people are going to riot because America has become scardy cats.......the very fear of these riots confirm where we are....paralyzed with fear........silly silly fear. There will be no riots. This is a fair trial.

Nekochan wrote:http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-witness-cantt-read-letter-wrote-shooting/story?id=19504826#.UcxUYfm1GSo

She will never make it as a Mensa candidate.

She will never make it as a Mensa candidate.


She was a hostile witness. She did not want to be there. I think the defense trying to make her look like an idiot will backfire. Her intelligence was not on trial. I found the statements which dealt with her phone call to Martin credible. I did not find her to be a likable witness.

At this point, I don't know if her testimony matters much.

It depends on the instructions. If Martin does not take the stand because they think they have the second degree beat, they may get him on manslaughter. If he takes the stand and he is caught in lies, and the jury believes the state met their burden.....he could be convicted on 2nd.......As I said months ago....this case hinges on the decision to have Zimmerman testify........I still say the same today. A rope a dope by the prosecutors is highly unusual, but if they are trying to back into manslaughter........it is genius if they keep Zimmerman off the stand.

Oh Oh.......Zimmerman was taking MMA courses........the judge let this in the medical records. I do not think these records should have been let in....but three days a week Zimmerman is in mixed martial arts.....he must not have paid attention.....because when he ran down the kid.....it looks like at some point the kid got the best of him.......I never knew this guy was doing MMA......why am I not surprised.......help me help me help me......when I kick that bag.....it does not kick back.......hey I was tapping out and the ref was not calling the match.....I had to draw my gun and shoot him in the heart.........

I think the judge made an error here. If the state wanted to get that evidence in, they should have called his instructor, or other people who would testify to the same. This is really a backdoor method of getting this damning information into evidence at this time. The argument had to be that they are going to call someone to confirm the same, but otherwise, these statement were not really relevant to his injuries.......pretty slimy....this should have been redacted, or after the other evidence was allowed through testimony....recall the witness.

We don't know that Zimmerman ran the kid down, do we?

And we don't know the extent of his martial arts lessons. There will be cross examination on this, I'm sure.

So....if Zimmerman's martial arts lessons are allowed as evidence, what about Trayvon's past actions?

no septum deviation, and nothing on his head requiring stitching.......kind of like what the one witness described two folks tussling around in the backyard.....by golly somebody needed to tear up this testimony.....here comes the defense of cross........this is getting good. I can hear it now MMA......do you know if he was taking these courses before his injuries.......ok his nose was straight....but was it not broken.........

So....if Zimmerman's martial arts lessons are allowed as evidence, what about Trayvon's past actions?


I do not know how the judge let this into evidence. I am bothered by this being allowed into evidence. The old rule of thumb is that a judge who believes the prosecution cannot prove their case....will let everything in to eliminate any grounds for appeal....I am getting that smell from this ruling.....this should have been redacted.

What are you saying? That the judge wants a conviction? That she is biased against the defendant?

What are you saying? That the judge wants a conviction? That she is biased against the defendant?


No, what I am saying is the general rule is that a judge who denies every one of your opponents objections, the judge is simply allowing a weak case to die and lose, not because the judge limited evidence. This is why often evidence rulings are not completely resolved in pretrial......here the judge should not have let the disclosure that Zimmerman was regularly taking MMA classes into evidence through the medical records. It was not relevant to the injuries, and just because it was referenced in the treatment, it was far more prejudicial than supportive of the actual injuries......I do not agree that this should have been let in at this time.....I think it was error......but if the defendant is found not guilty......and the state appeals......what are they going to appeal? Trials like a poker game have certain tells........I do not think the judge feels the state has met their burden.....otherwise she should not have let that into evidence.....at this time. The state would have to open the door and then you are correct.....I think the victims training would be fair game....this was really unusual in my opinion......it could have easily been admitted and the MMA reference redacted with white out or a magic marker......it would have taken no time.......very prejudicial to Zimmerman.

How would the state appeal (or retry him) if he's found not guilty?
I think it would be unusual for this to happen.

Nekochan wrote:How would the state appeal (or retry him) if he's found not guilty?
I think it would be unusual for this to happen.

If found not guilty, The state cannot retry him. If Oats said that, you should ignore his babbling nonsense.

Nekochan wrote:How would the state appeal (or retry him) if he's found not guilty?
I think it would be unusual for this to happen.

Under the 5th amendment they can't. However, it's technically possible if they could prove jury tampering.

Seaoat knows a lot about the law but I think it would be a very big stretch for the state to get an appeal on the judge's denying Zimmerman's past martial arts training into evidence.  But I also think this evidence being allowed might open the door to some of Trayvon's past actions (fights or whatnot) being admitted as evidence.

bizguy wrote:

Nekochan wrote:How would the state appeal (or retry him) if he's found not guilty?
I think it would be unusual for this to happen.

Under the 5th amendment they can't. However, it's technically possible if they could prove jury tampering.

Yes. Highly unusual though.

How would the state appeal (or retry him) if he's found not guilty?

The fifth amendment restricts the ability of a defendant to be retried for the same offense. However, an appeal where the judge is going to give a directed verdict because the state has not met their burden, can in fact be appealed........this is why I am saying that this may be a tell.....it is highly unusual for these medical records to have been admitted......so if the judge is going to make a directed verdict......she wants to let the appellate court know that all evidence favorable to the State's case was allowed into evidence.......I am really concerned about this ruling.

[quote="2seaoat"]What are you saying? That the judge wants a conviction? That she is biased against the defendant?


No, what I am saying is the general rule is that a judge who denies every one of your opponents objections, the judge is simply allowing a weak case to die and lose, not because the judge limited evidence.   This is why often evidence rulings are not completely resolved in pretrial......here the judge should not have let the disclosure that Zimmerman was regularly taking MMA classes into evidence through the medical records.   It was not relevant to the injuries, and just because it was referenced in the treatment, it was far more prejudicial than supportive of the actual injuries......I do not agree that this should have been let in at this time.....I think it was error......but if the defendant is found not guilty......and the state appeals......what are they going to appeal?   Trials like a poker game have certain tells........I do not think the judge feels the state has met their burden.....otherwise she should not have let that into evidence.....at this time.   The state would have to open the door and then you are correct.....I think the victims training would be fair game....this was really unusual in my opinion......it could have easily been admitted and the MMA reference redacted with white out or a magic marker......it would have taken no time.......very prejudicial to Zimmerman.
/quote]

Of course, I disagree. Martin had no injuries. He never got a lick in so it doesn't matter.

2seaoat wrote:no septum deviation, and nothing on his head requiring stitching.......kind of like what the one witness described two folks tussling around in the backyard.....by golly somebody needed to tear up this testimony.....here comes the defense of cross........this is getting good.   I can hear it now MMA......do you know if he was taking these courses before his injuries.......ok his nose was straight....but was it not broken.........

The Dr said it was broken.

Oh, well I don't think there will be a directed verdict. I just don't see the judge going that route. But we'll see.

Nekochan wrote:Seaoat knows a lot about the law but I think it would be a very big stretch for the state to get an appeal on the judge's denying Zimmerman's past martial arts training into evidence.  But I also think this evidence being allowed might open the door to some of Trayvon's past actions (fights or whatnot) being admitted as evidence.

They can't, Neko. Oats is full of sheet! NG verdict is the end of the case.

Nekochan wrote:We don't know that Zimmerman ran the kid down, do we?

And we don't know the extent of his martial arts lessons.  There will be cross examination on this, I'm sure.

No, there is no evidence Zimmerman followed Martin after the dispatcher to him not to.