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The Confederate Flag and Southern Sensibilities ....

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Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob
2seaoat wrote: The only people I have ever met (without exception) who fly the confederate flag are racist who are sending a clear message. 

So every single person without exception who flies the confederate flag is doing so to promote racism.  

I've never read a more bigoted statement anywhere.  Well actually I take that back.  The last time I heard someone say something as bigoted as that it was when they told me "all blacks look alike".

Seaoat, you live and breathe sterotypes more than any other human being I've ever encountered.

Wordslinger

Wordslinger
2seaoat wrote:Your friend had no reason to leave other than she was bigoted. She is ignorant. YOU apologized for the people who see the Confederate battle flag as a symbol of hate. The majority of people do not and who do take pride in their Southern Heritage.

As usual your opinion is polar opposite reality.  The fourth of July celebrates this great nation's independence from England and the English Oligarchy which was exploited the colonist.  We celebrate the nation.  We do not celebrate terrorists who were responsible for 500k Americans who died in the terrorist attacks against this nation.  If a person went to a fourth celebration and a group of people had a large ISIS flag you would not call her bigoted because she chose to leave.  You would not call her ignorant.  Most importantly you would argue that ISIS is the celebration of Muslim fundamentalism and was certainly appropriate at the fourth celebration.  You are wrong.  My family NEVER flew a confederate flag, and its roots are two hundred years living in the south.  The only people I have ever met(without exception) who fly the confederate flag are racist who are sending a clear message.  I applaud the lady for leaving.  Americans can give no ground to terrorist domestic or foreign.  The confederate flag in 2015 is flown for one purpose only.....hate, and if General Lee who fought under the battle flag of Northern Virginia insisted that it and any other symbol of the terrorist rebellion be put away, then there is only ONE reason it is displayed today.


I agree with you on this Seaoat -- I assume your comment is directed to Markle, correct?

Wordslinger

Wordslinger
Markle wrote:
SheWrites wrote:
Wordslinger wrote:
SheWrites wrote:
Wordslinger wrote:For She Writes:  Yes, I'm stridently opposed to southerners who choose to ignore how their hateful Rebel flag offends so many of their fellow Americans, black, white, and green.  

I absolutely believe you when you claim you and your family are and were good people.  I accept that.  But if it's true, why then would you insist the Rebel flag remain flying on State or Federal property, when it is so clearly offensive to so very many people?

Do your southern sensibilities outweigh those of African Americans?  I can't wait to hear you defend your position ...

Have I said, anywhere, that I "insist the Rebel flag remain flying on State or Federal property."  No, I have not.

I have addressed the issue that the confederate flag should not be revered.  Should it be in a history museum?  Yes.  

Why would I want any of my life to outweigh anything of any African American's lives.  We all are created equal...we are neighbors, friends, and attend church together.  

The point is, Wordslinger, your aim is to backhand an entire region because there are inequalities.  Inequalities happen on a daily basis in all areas of the world.  At this time, because of the acts of one young man, we all are blamed.

You don't believe in God so I conclude you do not  believe in a single life judgement. I do and this young man will stand alone in his judgement.  His hate, his murderous escapade, whether on drugs or mentally ill or just plain mean, is his own.


It is most unlikely he'll be marching in any KKK parades from now on.  You may be right about me backhanding the region ... as you point out, the great majority of the people of the south are not racists or hardcore fundamentalist my-way-or-the-highway Christian fanatics.  But the fact remains, the great majority of people here have done little if anything to curtail, isolate, or punish the bad guys.  Fiends like Dylann Roof actually believe they are supported by the majority.  There is no doubt he sees himself as a hero.  Yes, I do backhand the folks of the south for putting up with or purposefully ignoring the "good ole boys" who wave the Rebel flag.  It evidently took 9 dead churchgoers to spur the majority into finally saying "that's enough."  Reality


I had the opportunity this past week to meet a co-worker of my husband.  A beautiful and talented young woman from LA.  We discussed LA, my son lives there, and we have visited three times now.  Love the place.  

I asked how she was adapting to Florida.  She said she loves it.  Earlier in the week she had discussed with my husband how she went to Ponce de Leon for an Independence Day celebration.

As she arrived a few people were gathered with a huge Confederate flag.  She chose to leave.

I apologized to her.  Yes, I took on the role of an advocate for the whole region of the South, and apologized to her.  I explained that what she saw does not define who we are as a people, but,  we do have blemishes and deep scars.  

She said she was over it and will not let it define this new place where she now calls home.  I told her I appreciated her view and would love to show her the great things of the South.  

Relationships matter.  Broad, swiping agendas never get to the root of an issue for true healing.  It happens person to person.

Your friend had no reason to leave other than she was bigoted.  She is ignorant.  YOU apologized for the people who see the Confederate battle flag as a symbol of hate.  The majority of people do not and who do take pride in their Southern Heritage.

Locked by choice to his own world of fantasy, Semi Sane "I know NOSSING!" Markle claims that "the majority of people" do not see the Confederate flag as a symbol of hate. Actually, more southerners agree the rebel flag should be placed in museums than those who stridently insist the flag remain flying on public property. Even the south has grown up -- without Markle's agreement.

Fact: The public presentation of the Stars and Bars is an affront to all decent Americans -- and particularly so for African Americans. Which, of course, doesn't inhibit our resident fascist and white racist, Markle.

2seaoat


Sorry Bob, but a person would have to be dumb as a post not to realize that flying a confederate flag represents to many people in this country the belief in their inferiority.   If a flag is in a museum, or in a modern day historical battle, it most certainly is not being displayed for hate.  Any other person who flies or displays that flag is doing so with the distinct understanding that the flag was created to represent what the vice president of the Confederacy made crystal clear:

On March 21, 1861, Stephens gave his famous Cornerstone Speech in Savannah, Georgia. In it he declared that slavery was the natural condition of blacks and the foundation of the Confederacy. He declared, "Our new Government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition."

And your heroes the Allman brothers were redneck heroin addicts who were one hit wonders with ramblin man and never made the top 50 artists in Rolling Stone and used the terrorist flag on one of their albums to appeal to a certain audience, which up North is an Irish clover leaf on a bar......dog whistles are not exclusively in the South and racism is nationwide, and my toothless, lawn cutting career, alcoholic neighbor who wears a kerchief on his head, wears short shorts  that exposes his bulging belly as he thinks he is a ladies man at 72, and flies his confederate flag because he thinks it is about heritage, or in your case you argue.....hey...the heroin addict  had a black man in their band......the flag represents heritage......my asz.......as Phil Collins slipped at a music award show.....its getting a little dark around here.  Hell, music and the equality it represented was exactly the appeal of dope bros and their rebel flag.....the rejection of modern American music and a safe haven for the haters as black performers were getting access to tv, music, and movies.  It was as much of a racist reflex to the darkening of American culture than it was  the quality of their music.   I liked their music, but I understood what they stood for in America.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob
2seaoat wrote:

And your heroes the Allman brothers were redneck heroin addicts who were one hit wonders with ramblin man and never made the top 50 artists in Rolling Stone and used the terrorist flag on one of their albums to appeal to a certain audience

You are so predictable it makes my head spin. Simply because I make mention of The Allman Brothers, you then go find some little blurb on the internet which allows you to define a whole genre of American music to be nothing more than an exercise in racism.

And then in your state of profound ignorance, you dig yourself in even deeper by describing The Allman Brothers Band as "one hit wonders".
And for that you reference a song that wasn't even written and recorded until after the founder and the soul of this musical group had died.

You are indeed the modern incarnation of Professor Irwin Corey, "the world's foremost authority". The only difference is Corey was billed that way as pure satire.

The Allman Brothers Band were not a product of a recording studio as were most all other rock and roll performers.
They were a live concert band from the very beginning and all the way to the end.
You might want to take a look at this Rolling Stone list of the "Ten Best Live Albums of All Time" and look to see which spot on that list they have...

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/pictures/readers-poll-the-10-best-live-albums-of-all-time-20121121/2-the-allman-brothers-live-at-the-filmore-east-0430098

I have to leave for a while and when I return I'll try to educate you about how the Allman Brothers and Southern Rock in general as much as anything was a statement AGAINST racism and the old south.















TEOTWAWKI

TEOTWAWKI
Wordslinger wrote:
Markle wrote:
SheWrites wrote:
Wordslinger wrote:
SheWrites wrote:
Wordslinger wrote:For She Writes:  Yes, I'm stridently opposed to southerners who choose to ignore how their hateful Rebel flag offends so many of their fellow Americans, black, white, and green.  

I absolutely believe you when you claim you and your family are and were good people.  I accept that.  But if it's true, why then would you insist the Rebel flag remain flying on State or Federal property, when it is so clearly offensive to so very many people?

Do your southern sensibilities outweigh those of African Americans?  I can't wait to hear you defend your position ...

Have I said, anywhere, that I "insist the Rebel flag remain flying on State or Federal property."  No, I have not.

I have addressed the issue that the confederate flag should not be revered.  Should it be in a history museum?  Yes.  

Why would I want any of my life to outweigh anything of any African American's lives.  We all are created equal...we are neighbors, friends, and attend church together.  

The point is, Wordslinger, your aim is to backhand an entire region because there are inequalities.  Inequalities happen on a daily basis in all areas of the world.  At this time, because of the acts of one young man, we all are blamed.

You don't believe in God so I conclude you do not  believe in a single life judgement. I do and this young man will stand alone in his judgement.  His hate, his murderous escapade, whether on drugs or mentally ill or just plain mean, is his own.


It is most unlikely he'll be marching in any KKK parades from now on.  You may be right about me backhanding the region ... as you point out, the great majority of the people of the south are not racists or hardcore fundamentalist my-way-or-the-highway Christian fanatics.  But the fact remains, the great majority of people here have done little if anything to curtail, isolate, or punish the bad guys.  Fiends like Dylann Roof actually believe they are supported by the majority.  There is no doubt he sees himself as a hero.  Yes, I do backhand the folks of the south for putting up with or purposefully ignoring the "good ole boys" who wave the Rebel flag.  It evidently took 9 dead churchgoers to spur the majority into finally saying "that's enough."  Reality


I had the opportunity this past week to meet a co-worker of my husband.  A beautiful and talented young woman from LA.  We discussed LA, my son lives there, and we have visited three times now.  Love the place.  

I asked how she was adapting to Florida.  She said she loves it.  Earlier in the week she had discussed with my husband how she went to Ponce de Leon for an Independence Day celebration.

As she arrived a few people were gathered with a huge Confederate flag.  She chose to leave.

I apologized to her.  Yes, I took on the role of an advocate for the whole region of the South, and apologized to her.  I explained that what she saw does not define who we are as a people, but,  we do have blemishes and deep scars.  

She said she was over it and will not let it define this new place where she now calls home.  I told her I appreciated her view and would love to show her the great things of the South.  

Relationships matter.  Broad, swiping agendas never get to the root of an issue for true healing.  It happens person to person.

Your friend had no reason to leave other than she was bigoted.  She is ignorant.  YOU apologized for the people who see the Confederate battle flag as a symbol of hate.  The majority of people do not and who do take pride in their Southern Heritage.

Locked by choice to his own world of fantasy, Semi Sane "I know NOSSING!" Markle claims that "the majority of people" do not see the Confederate flag as a symbol of hate.  Actually, more southerners agree the rebel flag should be placed in museums than those who stridently insist the flag remain flying on public property.  Even the south has grown up -- without Markle's agreement.  

Fact:  The public presentation of the Stars and Bars is an affront to all decent Americans -- and particularly so for African Americans.  Which, of course, doesn't inhibit our resident fascist and white racist, Markle.

In your battle against all you hate I am sure the cross is to you no different than the battle flag. You would do away with all religious symbols also if you could. You seem to think science is the only dependable foundation to build a human community.....

boards of FL

boards of FL
Bob wrote:
2seaoat wrote: The only people I have ever met (without exception) who fly the confederate flag are racist who are sending a clear message. 

So every single person without exception who flies the confederate flag is doing so to promote racism.  


If they aren't racist, they're ignorant of history.


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2seaoat


http://thebutchtrucks.blogspot.com/2011/10/racism-niggerhead-ranch-and-abb.html

I get that argument, but sadly the folks who listen to their music and "southern rock" are looking for an alternative to black music.....or the darkening of music in America.   Go to the Country Music awards and tell me how they remain mostly lily white while the other music award shows have darkened up.  Music is politics.  Your boyz may have had the best intentions, but sadly they and other southern rock bands are more about seeking alternatives from darkened music in America.

TEOTWAWKI

TEOTWAWKI
Well if this is a country of freedom why can't people be racist? Or is all this racism talk just another tool to control people ?

2seaoat


Well if this is a country of freedom why can't people be racist? Or is all this racism talk just another tool to control people ?

All Americans have racial stereotypes and fears.  It is when these fears and prejudice are incorporated into government to oppress that it becomes dangerous.  An individual who is frightened, fearful, hateful, and prejudiced harms themselves much more than they hurt society.  Yes, in America every person has the right to be a racist, but the challenge is making sure this individual handicap does not harm the American government and the equality for which it stands.

TEOTWAWKI

TEOTWAWKI
Margaret Sanger was a horrible racist whose goal was the extermination of black people. Yet her planned parenthood is a leftist organization and it actually is accomplishing her desired goal by destroying 50 % of every black child conceived yet that is alright because the "woman's right to her own body tool" trumps the "racist tool"...Your government is paying to kill blacks yet that's okay ?

http://www.blackgenocide.org/sanger.html

boards of FL

boards of FL
TEOTWAWKI wrote:Well if this is a country of freedom why can't people be racist?



They can be. You are.


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TEOTWAWKI

TEOTWAWKI
boards of FL wrote:
TEOTWAWKI wrote:Well if this is a country of freedom why can't people be racist?



They can be.  You are.

you still gay ?

2seaoat


you still gay ?

ah.....the old Junior High put down, but guess what.....gay people are getting equal rights and opportunity in America.  The very freedom and liberty you purport to support.....yet you still look down on gay people, black people, and hispanics, and have no problem taking their rights away.  In the end equality is the central tenet of Christianity and the sermon on the mount.....“All things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them.

TEOTWAWKI

TEOTWAWKI
A soft answer turneth away wrath. Tell your mini-me that.

boards of FL

boards of FL
TEOTWAWKI wrote:
boards of FL wrote:
TEOTWAWKI wrote:Well if this is a country of freedom why can't people be racist?



They can be.  You are.

you still gay ?



Well look at that!  Not only is he overtly racist, but he is overtly homophobic as well!

It must suck being on the wrong side of history.


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Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob
boards of FL wrote:
Bob wrote:
2seaoat wrote: The only people I have ever met (without exception) who fly the confederate flag are racist who are sending a clear message. 

So every single person without exception who flies the confederate flag is doing so to promote racism.  


If they aren't racist, they're ignorant of history.  

Jaimoe wasn't ignorant of his race's history,  bds.  And Dickey Betts,  Jaimoe's best friend in life,  wasn't ignorant of Jaimoe's history either.
Neither were Butch,  Berry,  Greg or Duane.

Hey bds,  you know how sometimes you see yourself facing mass ignorance around here when it comes to understanding basic economic principles?
Well now I know what you feel like when that happens because that's exactly what you look like to me right now.
I would expect ignorance like that from seaoat.  But not from you because I think I've picked up from some of your posts that you're into music.  I have to say this is pretty disappointing to read this from you.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob
For you, bds. Frankly I honestly don't care if seaoat bothers to read it.

http://www.gpb.org/news/2014/07/01/allman-brothers-were-a-force-for-racial-integration-in-the-south

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob
It can be argued (and pretty successfully) that what the Allmans were more than anything else,  is the original southern hippies.  And their music is the original southern hippie music.
Because that's really what they were.  And the whole hippie movement was a rebellion against just about everything status quo including of course racism and racial segregation.

It's just so surreal to be reading that Gregg and Duane Allman represented racism.  lol

EmeraldGhost

EmeraldGhost

boards of FL

boards of FL
Bob wrote:It can be argued (and pretty successfully) that what the Allmans were more than anything else,  is the original southern hippies.  And their music is the original southern hippie music.
Because that's really what they were.  And the whole hippie movement was a rebellion against just about everything status quo including of course racism and racial segregation.

It's just so surreal to be reading that Gregg and Duane Allman represented racism.  lol


Not necessarily. The options were they are either racist or ignorant of history. Since we're ruling out racism...


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Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob
boards of FL wrote: The options were they are either racist or ignorant of history.  Since we're ruling out racism...

What are you,  about a 30 year old white kid,  aren't you?
Well don't you think it's just a little presumptive on your part to be saying you know more about the history of African Americans than an African American himself who grew up in the south in the 40's and 50's?

He didn't have any problem with that flag used by his band.  Why?  Because the flag didn't symbolize racism to him.  The Allmans did with that flag what I do with the word queer.  They used that flag to symbolize something other than the flags and words like that were intended to mean.



Last edited by Bob on 7/13/2015, 3:40 pm; edited 1 time in total

EmeraldGhost

EmeraldGhost
The Confederate Flag and Southern Sensibilities .... - Page 4 Pontoon_zpsqxzuk437

boards of FL

boards of FL
Bob wrote:
boards of FL wrote: The options were they are either racist or ignorant of history.  Since we're ruling out racism...

What are you,  about a 30 year old white kid,  aren't you?
Well don't you think it's just a little presumptive on your part to be saying you know more about the history of African Americans than an African American himself who grew up in the south in the 40's and 50's?

He didn't have any problem with that flag used by his band.  Why?  Because the flag didn't symbolize racism to him.  The Allmans did with that flag what I do with the word queer.  They used that flag to symbolize something other than the flags and words like that were intended to mean.


If the flag didn't symbolize racism to him, he is ignorant of history. This is basically what I originally said. Being black or being born in a different time doesn't mean that one is predisposed to understand history to a greater degree than anyone else.


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EmeraldGhost

EmeraldGhost
CAUTION!!!   Video below contains imagery of Southern heritage to which race-baiting liberal moonbats may take extreme faux-offense:



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