NIMBY whine

By golly the city manager said the zoning complied to their ordinances, and if the folks want to file a lawsuit they have that right, but it is correct zoning as far as the city staff is concerned and it is on one of the busiest streets in town, so what is the problem?

This location is either 8 or 9 blocks north of Cervantes...nowhere near the Days Inn.

Just down the street and it is full of commercial uses along Palafox and by golly I think there are a bunch of lawyer offices between the Days Inn and the former industrial site which have criminals walking in all day long......where were the NIMBYS when those houses became commercial uses. The site is perfect for the intended use.

Floridatexan wrote:This location is either 8 or 9 blocks north of Cervantes...nowhere near the Days Inn.

Oops Days Inn is in the 700 block and the plant is 1600 block.

Will anything ever be done with the "old" Medical Center building that sits across from the Coca Cola building?

2seaoat wrote:By golly the city manager said the zoning complied to their ordinances, and if the folks want to file a lawsuit they have that right, but it is correct zoning as far as the city staff is concerned and it is on one of the busiest streets in town, so what is the problem?

http://www.advancepensacola.com/31014i14.pdf

Read it, Seaoat. The zoning (C3) does NOT allow "community correctional facilities"...that would be allowed under an M1 designation...AND there isn't sufficient parking for parolees or probationers...only enough for staff. AND as Councilman Bare pointed out, there should have been a public hearing before the permit was issued. This is an old part of town, and there are residences ONE BLOCK over from "busy" Palafox St. PLUS, the building itself is historical. There are plenty of places near the Jail that are already zoned for this specific use.

Don't confuse Seaoat with facts. He knows it all and doesn't care because he isn't even a resident.

Floridatexan wrote:

2seaoat wrote:By golly the city manager said the zoning complied to their ordinances, and if the folks want to file a lawsuit they have that right, but it is correct zoning as far as the city staff is concerned and it is on one of the busiest streets in town, so what is the problem?

http://www.advancepensacola.com/31014i14.pdf

Read it, Seaoat.  The zoning (C3) does NOT allow "community correctional facilities"...that would be allowed under an M1 designation...AND there isn't sufficient parking for parolees or probationers...only enough for staff.  AND as Councilman Bare pointed out, there should have been a public hearing before the permit was issued.  This is an old part of town, and there are residences ONE BLOCK over from "busy" Palafox St.  PLUS, the building itself is historical.  There are plenty of places near the Jail that are already zoned for this specific use.

Thank you FT.

I looked on map quest street view and their are residences directly behind the building....on the same block.

The State chose this location. The notice was posted in the paper. The City staff approved the location. People have come to a hearing and complained. Yes, there are houses behind the building, but this originally was an industrial bottling plant, and it is a perfect use.

Please show us the perfect use next to the jail which the State and the Staff overlooked? A historical building with the state as a tenant is a building which will be maintained, and please explain away the 8 or so law offices where criminals are coming in day and night to meet with their lawyers......those are former single family residences converted to commercial use....and where was the bitch.......nope this is classic NIMBY.

Also, more of the same political wranglings to attack the Mayor and his staff........Did you see where Bare is trying to distance himself from the homeless controversy......a real courageous fellow.

Seaoat, you have no dog in this hunt.  Why are you making such an issue of this?  Clearly, there was no public hearing.  Clearly, the property is not zoned for this use, nor does it have adequate parking without an overflow into residential streets.

Here is a map of the North Hill Preservation District, from their website:  



If I'm not mistaken, the building is about a block northeast of the boundary.

There are other neighborhoods adjacent that are just outside the preservation district, and, as both the PNJ and Joanie pointed out, the property backs up to residences.  Zoning CHANGED in that area over time...that's what happens with zoning.  And there's a difference between clients visiting a law office and this proposed concentration of offenders...even if every attorney on N. Palafox was engaged in criminal law, which they're not.  If we're going to let the state make all our local decisions, why have a city council at all, or a county commission?   And what exactly do you have against Charles Bare?  Are you a friend of the mayor?  

Aside:  I just heard the mayor speaking about the airport concessions controversy.  He's been overridden by the City Council, which has allowed the current concessions, led by DeVarona, to remain on a month-to-month basis until there's time to reach a settlement.  He says that arrangement opens up the city to lawsuits by the national vendors.  I don't doubt the North Hill residents would likewise sue, both at the state and local levels, over this proposal...should it go forward.  IMHO, it should never have proceeded without citizen input...and now they're obviously trying to rush it through.  I'd like to know who pushed this and who has already profited, i.e., the realtor involved.

This why I remain a Republican. This is socialism gone amok. First, there is no question that an bottling plant is an industrial use. Second, please show me any evidence that where a state probation office is located has an increase in crime in that area? The State went to staff and asked is this location in compliance with your zoning. Staff, as they did at the public meeting said yes. Bare and his buddies are after the mayor's chief of staff and they are brewing a bitch fest in a teapot, and the truth still remains.

The private property owner relying on the city and the state has invested private capital to preserve and protect the historic building, and the use is completely consistent with State guidelines and the Staff of Pensacola who interpret zoning rules. Let them go to court. Our cities were laid out with much more precision before the zoning laws and the Eucelid decision.

If somebody can go to a court of law and show this use as dangerous or harmful, I will pay admission to listen to that hearing. This is classic NIMBY behavior, and the political infighting has paralyzed any chance the city can move forward. This is petty politics which paralyzes Pensacola. It is important to expand probation and supervision of folks as we take the non violent people out of prisons and better supervise them on the street.

Also, a probation office is not a correctional facility. This is stupid.

Floridatexan wrote:Seaoat, you have no dog in this hunt.  Why are you making such an issue of this?  Clearly, there was no public hearing.  Clearly, the property is not zoned for this use, nor does it have adequate parking without an overflow into residential streets.

Here is a map of the North Hill Preservation District, from their website:  



If I'm not mistaken, the building is about a block northeast of the boundary.

There are other neighborhoods adjacent that are just outside the preservation district, and, as both the PNJ and Joanie pointed out, the property backs up to residences.  Zoning CHANGED in that area over time...that's what happens with zoning.  And there's a difference between clients visiting a law office and this proposed concentration of offenders...even if every attorney on N. Palafox was engaged in criminal law, which they're not.  If we're going to let the state make all our local decisions, why have a city council at all, or a county commission?   And what exactly do you have against Charles Bare?  Are you a friend of the mayor?  

Aside:  I just heard the mayor speaking about the airport concessions controversy.  He's been overridden by the City Council, which has allowed the current concessions, led by DeVarona, to remain on a month-to-month basis until there's time to reach a settlement.  He says that arrangement opens up the city to lawsuits by the national vendors.  I don't doubt the North Hill residents would likewise sue, both at the state and local levels, over this proposal...should it go forward.  IMHO, it should never have proceeded without citizen input...and now they're obviously trying to rush it through.  I'd like to know who pushed this and who has already profited, i.e., the realtor involved.

Thanks for the posts FT.......especially regarding the zoning and restrictions regarding parole/ probation locations.

The zoning and restrictions are for the citizens. Protection for life and property.

From comments......right on......

I understand them not wanting it "in their back yards," but don't they realize The Escambia County Community Corrections is already housed 2 blocks away at 2251 N Palafox? Hundreds of people visit that location daily because they are on misdemeanor probation, have gps monitors because of domestic violence related cases, are participating in a pre-trial diversion program, a check restitution program, a pre-trial release program, a work release program and/or community service. I have been in that building and seen some very undesirable folks walking those halls. Not to mention the Midtown Professional Building that is even closer to the Coca Cola Building. I always see less than desirable folks hanging around there too. Like I said, I understand they don't want those people there......but they already are.

Not living in Pensacola I don't have a dog in this fight.

Given that, 2 dozen folks doesn't seem many given the supposed size of this neighborhood.

Plus, the area in question doesn't appear to be the high rent district or shopping area for Pensacola.  Across the street is some sort of run down thrift shop and chain link fences everywhere.

Seems that if the "neighbors" (I couldn't see any from this view or all around) want the place they could have the city access them all to buy it and turn it into a park and recreation area.  Then they'd complain about the thrift shop attracting unpleasant people to the area.



https://www.google.com/maps/place/1625+N+Palafox+St/@30.429236,-87.219152,3a,90y,313.02h,80.86t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sSbgIAjz-ze2zLH1TzVnEGg!2e0!4m2!3m1!1s0x8890c0a02a053325:0x4ac577c992ee87a6

Mr Ichi wrote:the area in question doesn't appear to be the high rent district




415,000.... 1408 Lee St



309,000..... 120 west Moreno

N. Palafox isn't even in the photo of the district.  Where is it from the district anyway?

As for West Moreno, as you can see by their own map, it is not even in the district in question.  It is at the very top of that map by the way.

Here, try again. Can you see Palafox in any direction.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/1408+E+Lee+St/@30.430106,-87.200395,3a,90y,90t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sqWsRsu54hdphqMCjB2EAug!2e0!4m5!1m2!2m1!1s1408+Lee+St.+Pensacola,+FL+street+level+maps!3m1!1s0x8890c0eaeccc10f7:0x28a2353d4eda570e

Palafox is the East West boundary line.  120 West Morneo is 2 blocks from Palafox street. I pulled it from a zillow posting. I should have used one from West not East Lee. The Morneo house is very close maybe 200 feet from the district line. [b]

I am going to city hall with 12 people and tell the homeowner that his house is offensive and he should move somewhere else.........and maybe if I get 25 we will be even more right in our opinion. To hell with the homeowner's fifth amendments protections in private property.......we are a mob and have an opinion.

Apples and oranges, Seaoat. I'm shocked you are not familiar with the North Hill residential neighborhood. Very nice area with numerous homes having historical markers provided by the city. Too bad Mayor Hayward and his family do not live in the North Hill district.

Mr Ichi wrote:You are watching a community in free fall.  We are leaderless.  Today our country commissioners almost came to blows.  They have stumbled around for the last 18 months trying to hire a administrator .  Still no decision.  The airport concessions  are stalemated with contracts ending and no solution in sight.  Progress is slow at the CMPA park.  No one wants to lead and make things happen.  Collin Merrill and Crew are having a pissing contest with the City and a law suit has been filed.  Many city owned parcels in the city are with out any plans or interest in be developed.

We have no voice.  The local newspaper does nothing to inform or incite interest.  

We learn by watching the YMCA supporters wearing matching T shirts storm City Hall and demand the city bow to their demands.  No one called them a "Mob" so it must a a valid way to express ones self.  The Homeless coalition,  Minorities, and others are now following suit.

The well of public discourse has been poisoned by the lack of leadership.

When you see the citizens of North Hill having to resort to Social Media, Blogs and forming action groups, you can rest assured the Canary in the mine, has died.