The insanity of religion

I turn on the TV today and see the news covering the canonization of a guy that lived in 1737 by the Pope. Juipero Serra. WTF! Three hundred years ago? The guy's been in supposed heaven for three hundred years and God hasn't made him a saint yet but the earthly Pope can? LOL! All these people dressed up in robes and shit singing. Give me a break!

It will be a miracle if America survives another couple years ....

What's going to happen the second coming of Christ?

Vikingwoman wrote:What's going to happen the second coming of Christ?

No the Devil's gonna recall congress , Whitehouse and the SCOTUS.

religion and humans are unique. I once asked some folks with bibles who knocked on my front door if they wanted to come into my house and discuss with me their religion. They sat down and my dog greeted them. So they started in on some heavy handed religious dogma, and became very critical of those who do not follow their dogma and brand of religion. I told them I was a Christian. That was not good enough as again they were getting more like your going to Hell if you do not buy into our brand we are selling.

I had tired at their sophomoric and pedestrian understanding of the bible, and I decided to end the session with a question. I said how does my dog get into heaven? They both responded that dogs do not go to heaven. I promptly stood up and asked them to leave. I feigned anger and said you do not understand the bible and you are peddling sophistry, because God lets dogs into heaven.

However, ten years ago, I was in a very positive religious conversation with a woman I respected, when I told that story, and she immediately quoted:
Revelation 22:15 ESV / 8

Outside are the dogs and sorcerers and the sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

I thought wow....those guys were right on scripture, but any person who does a google search on dogs in heaven will see INTERPRETATIONS of verse which say dogs will go to heaven. I guess the fancy robes and regalia of an institution are trying to have the final word on those folks interpretation of the bible, but the protestant reformation and the contradictions in the bible lead one to the conclusion that in the end faith requires a belief system which is ultimately individual and I have since my freshman year in high school found Matt hew 6 to give me personal guidance. Dreams thinks my faith is BS. She may be right, or wrong, but the beauty of America is that my beliefs or the beliefs of other people are free to be expressed if they do not bring harm to others.

You're afraid to not believe,Oatie but you excoriate people for not having courage. What do we call that?

Not believing is easy.  Criticizing religion is easy.  Any person with moderate intelligence can find inconsistencies in religion.  It takes much higher intelligence to conceptualize what can not be empirically verified.  To think that faith and the pursuit of that which cannot be empirically verified is fear is a pedestrian attempt at higher conceptualization like a child fearful of the boogeyman transferring her fear to others, and then saying they are afraid.  I fear ignorance and it consistently scares me.

2seaoat wrote:Not believing is easy.  Criticizing religion is easy.  Any person with moderate intelligence can find inconsistencies in religion.  It takes much higher intelligence to conceptualize what can not be empirically verified.  To think that faith and the pursuit of that which cannot be empirically verified is fear is a pedestrian attempt at higher conceptualization like a child fearful of the boogeyman transferring her fear to others, and then saying they are afraid.  I fear ignorance and it consistently scares me.

Got that a little backwards,don't you Oatie? Any moron and average intellect can be convinced there are holy spirits and a kingdom in the sky waiting for them but the true higher intellect knows the absurdity of that belief just by living everyday. If you fear ignorance, you certainly are the poster child for it believing in myths and superstitions passed down from thousands of years ago. Conceptualizing folklore is not akin to a higher intelligence but rather feeds the fantasies of the fearful.

Vikingwoman wrote:

2seaoat wrote:Not believing is easy.  Criticizing religion is easy.  Any person with moderate intelligence can find inconsistencies in religion.  It takes much higher intelligence to conceptualize what can not be empirically verified.  To think that faith and the pursuit of that which cannot be empirically verified is fear is a pedestrian attempt at higher conceptualization like a child fearful of the boogeyman transferring her fear to others, and then saying they are afraid.  I fear ignorance and it consistently scares me.

Got that a little backwards, don't you Oatie? Any moron and average intellect can be convinced there are holy spirits and a kingdom in the sky waiting for them but the true higher intellect knows the absurdity of that belief just by living everyday. If you fear ignorance, you certainly are the poster child for it believing in myths and superstitions passed down from thousands of years ago. Conceptualizing folklore is not akin to a higher intelligence but rather feeds the fantasies of the fearful.

How much is Wordslinger paying you?

You are incapable of understanding what I believe, but wish to assign my beliefs to someone who is ignorant. Again, a typical pedestrian attempt of understanding the world you live.

You believe in a God and heaven,don't you? You think your beliefs are more intelligent, Donald?

I believe in God. I do not understand heaven. I believe you have difficulty with simple concepts and are like a lost child with higher level concepts.

2seaoat wrote:Not believing is easy.  Criticizing religion is easy.  Any person with moderate intelligence can find inconsistencies in religion.  It takes much higher intelligence to conceptualize what can not be empirically verified.  To think that faith and the pursuit of that which cannot be empirically verified is fear is a pedestrian attempt at higher conceptualization like a child fearful of the boogeyman transferring her fear to others, and then saying they are afraid.  I fear ignorance and it consistently scares me.

Good post, Seaoat.

Faith, hope, and love. All require letting go of the ownership of one's self. Most people today are too enthralled with themselves and their supposed intelligence to find faith, hope, and love in their lives.

Totally separate from "religion."

2seaoat wrote:It takes much higher intelligence to conceptualize what can not be empirically verified.

When you use the word 'intelligence', do you mean 'gullibility'?

I tell you one thing. The Pope has sucked all the media air out of the election room. Before yesterday it was all election all the time. And now all of a sudden it's like "Donald who? Does he work for the Pope or something?"

boards of FL wrote:

2seaoat wrote:It takes much higher intelligence to conceptualize what can not be empirically verified.

When you use the word 'intelligence', do you mean 'gullibility'?

I thought that statement of Seaoat's was especially troublesome. It smacks of a delusional thinking that is more in order w/ lower intelligence. Beliefs of supernatural beings that reality has proven time and time again do not exist except in the minds of the weak.

I thought that statement of Seaoat's was especially troublesome. It smacks of a delusional thinking that is more in order w/ lower intelligence. Beliefs of supernatural beings that reality has proven time and time again do not exist except in the minds of the weak.

Again pedestrian attempts to instill in someone of faith the beliefs of others, or to suppose they posses answers to what was before or after is typical of mid range intelligence. To conceptualize is not your strong aptitude. You live in a pragmatic paradigm of Missouri show me, but how does a person show you a neutrino when the theory and concept says it may exist, and thirty years later at Fermi Lab they discover the particle.

You try to assign to me the beliefs of others. You try to think higher level conceptualization is delusional because you lack the intelligence to understand the same even low level legal and scientific concepts. You bumble along content in your unhappiness that even though you missed your opportunity to be a learned person in your youth which was really no fault of your own, that somehow attacking people as crazy, delusional, or of low intelligence will somehow save you from the reality of your present status. Put your anger down and pick up books. It is never too late to learn.

SheWrites wrote:

2seaoat wrote:Not believing is easy.  Criticizing religion is easy.  Any person with moderate intelligence can find inconsistencies in religion.  It takes much higher intelligence to conceptualize what can not be empirically verified.  To think that faith and the pursuit of that which cannot be empirically verified is fear is a pedestrian attempt at higher conceptualization like a child fearful of the boogeyman transferring her fear to others, and then saying they are afraid.  I fear ignorance and it consistently scares me.

Good post, Seaoat.

Faith, hope, and love.  All require letting go of the ownership of one's self.  Most people today are too enthralled with themselves and their supposed intelligence to find faith, hope, and love in their lives.  


Totally separate from "religion."

So why are you bringing that up when this was about religion?

2seaoat wrote:I thought that statement of Seaoat's was especially troublesome. It smacks of a delusional thinking that is more in order w/ lower intelligence. Beliefs of supernatural beings that reality has proven time and time again do not exist except in the minds of the weak.

Again pedestrian attempts to instill in someone of faith the beliefs of others, or to suppose they posses answers to what was before or after is typical of mid range intelligence.  To conceptualize is not your strong aptitude.  You live in a pragmatic paradigm of Missouri show me, but how does a person show you a neutrino when the theory and concept says it may exist, and thirty years later at Fermi Lab they discover the particle.

You try to assign to me the beliefs of others.  You try to think higher level conceptualization is delusional because you lack the intelligence to understand the same even low level legal and scientific concepts.  You bumble along content in your unhappiness that even though you missed your opportunity to be a learned person in your youth which was really no fault of your own, that somehow attacking people as crazy, delusional, or of low intelligence will somehow save you from the reality of your present status.  Put your anger down and pick up books.  It is never too late to learn.

LOL! Wow, now your trying to convince yourself it takes a higher level of conceptualization to believe in religion and those who dispute that lack intelligence. That truly takes the cake! BTW, I not angry at all. I just think it's quite a paradox that people who think they're intelligent can be so unintelligent when it comes to beliefs that are not supported in reality.

When you use the word 'intelligence', do you mean 'gullibility'?


Webster defines gullibility as follows: easily fooled or cheated; especially : quick to believe something that is not true

So you assert the idea that people of faith are quick to believe something that is not true. In some cases you are correct. In some cases you are wrong. If you can prove to me the absence of God, I am all ears, but until then your assumption of the same reminds me of this situation which was falsely attached to Einstein in a different class situation:

A college class was led by an atheist professor, and every day he'd stand in front of his class and say, "Have you ever seen God?" to which nobody would answer. Then he'd ask, "Have you ever felt God?" and nobody would answer. Finally he'd ask, "Have you ever heard God?" and, like the other times, nobody would answer. He then would say, "It is obvious that there is no God."

One day a Christian student had been having an extremely bad day; her car broke down, her mother was sick, her boyfriend was out of town, and she'd gotten a bad grade on one of her exams. She had been fed up with her professor's little act every morning, so she decided to do something about it.

While the professor stood up at the beginning of class and did his thing, the student had an idea. She got up and said, "Professor, would you mind if I said something?" He said, "Of course not. This is an expressive classroom, and I think it would be fine if you spoke your mind."

The girl said to the class, "Have you ever seen our professor's brain?" and nobody answered. Then she asked, "Have you ever felt our professor's brain?" and nobody answered. Finally she asked, "Have you ever heard our professor's brain?" and, like the other times, nobody answered.

She then said, "It is quite obvious that our professor has no brain."


There is some gullibility being displayed where one assumes with scientific certainty of the non existence of God. My position is simple. I believe there is a god, and I believe in the possibility of Matthew 6. It has guided me quite easily since my Freshman year in high school, and I have never met an intelligent person who can find fault or ignorance in my faith. I find weak minded folks on both sides of the religious debate, but Matthew 6 criticizes the weak minded who stand and pray the loudest that they have it figured out, as the fools who think they have proven the absence of God stand and proclaim all others are fools and gullible. I am very comfortable intellectually with my faith. I have laughed a lifetime on low intelligent folks claiming to prove the absence of God......or those who say they are the only ones who know how to find God......

The absence of God is proved everyday. Where is he?

2seaoat wrote:When you use the word 'intelligence', do you mean 'gullibility'?


Webster defines gullibility as follows: easily fooled or cheated; especially : quick to believe something that is not true

So you assert the idea that people of faith are quick to believe something that is not true.  In some cases you are correct.  In some cases you are wrong.  If you can prove to me the absence of God, I am all ears, but until then your assumption of the same reminds me of this situation which was falsely attached to Einstein in a different class situation:

A college class was led by an atheist professor, and every day he'd stand in front of his class and say, "Have you ever seen God?" to which nobody would answer. Then he'd ask, "Have you ever felt God?" and nobody would answer. Finally he'd ask, "Have you ever heard God?" and, like the other times, nobody would answer. He then would say, "It is obvious that there is no God."

One day a Christian student had been having an extremely bad day; her car broke down, her mother was sick, her boyfriend was out of town, and she'd gotten a bad grade on one of her exams. She had been fed up with her professor's little act every morning, so she decided to do something about it.

While the professor stood up at the beginning of class and did his thing, the student had an idea. She got up and said, "Professor, would you mind if I said something?" He said, "Of course not. This is an expressive classroom, and I think it would be fine if you spoke your mind."

The girl said to the class, "Have you ever seen our professor's brain?" and nobody answered. Then she asked, "Have you ever felt our professor's brain?" and nobody answered. Finally she asked, "Have you ever heard our professor's brain?" and, like the other times, nobody answered.

She then said, "It is quite obvious that our professor has no brain."


There is some gullibility being displayed where one assumes with scientific certainty of the non existence of God.  My position is simple.  I believe there is a god, and I believe in the possibility of Matthew 6.  It has guided me quite easily since my Freshman year in high school, and I have never met an intelligent person who can find fault or ignorance in my faith.  I find weak minded folks on both sides of the religious debate, but Matthew 6 criticizes the weak minded who stand and pray the loudest that they have it figured out, as the fools who think they have proven the absence of God stand and proclaim all others are fools and gullible.   I am very comfortable intellectually with my faith.  I have laughed a lifetime on low intelligent folks claiming to prove the absence of God......or those who say they are the only ones who know how to find God......

https://search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?p=hitchens+on+christianity&ei=UTF-8&hspart=mozilla&hsimp=yhs-002

Too bad you don't have the intelligence of the late Hitchens.

The absence of God is proved everyday. Where is he?


Perhaps the same place a bacteria or a virus was to those with certainty who explained illness five hundred years ago and applied leeches. The inability through the senses to discover something is not proof of its non existence. Your simple mind has been shown to lack the senses to grasp many a concept, so I am not at all surprised with your certainty that God does not exist.

Concepts that have proven useful in ordering things easily achieve such authority over us that we forget their earthly origins and accept them as unalterable givens.

2seaoat wrote:When you use the word 'intelligence', do you mean 'gullibility'?


Webster defines gullibility as follows: easily fooled or cheated; especially : quick to believe something that is not true

So you assert the idea that people of faith are quick to believe something that is not true.  In some cases you are correct.  In some cases you are wrong.  If you can prove to me the absence of God, I am all ears, but until then your assumption of the same reminds me of this situation which was falsely attached to Einstein in a different class situation:

A college class was led by an atheist professor, and every day he'd stand in front of his class and say, "Have you ever seen God?" to which nobody would answer. Then he'd ask, "Have you ever felt God?" and nobody would answer. Finally he'd ask, "Have you ever heard God?" and, like the other times, nobody would answer. He then would say, "It is obvious that there is no God."

One day a Christian student had been having an extremely bad day; her car broke down, her mother was sick, her boyfriend was out of town, and she'd gotten a bad grade on one of her exams. She had been fed up with her professor's little act every morning, so she decided to do something about it.

While the professor stood up at the beginning of class and did his thing, the student had an idea. She got up and said, "Professor, would you mind if I said something?" He said, "Of course not. This is an expressive classroom, and I think it would be fine if you spoke your mind."

The girl said to the class, "Have you ever seen our professor's brain?" and nobody answered. Then she asked, "Have you ever felt our professor's brain?" and nobody answered. Finally she asked, "Have you ever heard our professor's brain?" and, like the other times, nobody answered.

She then said, "It is quite obvious that our professor has no brain."


There is some gullibility being displayed where one assumes with scientific certainty of the non existence of God.  My position is simple.  I believe there is a god, and I believe in the possibility of Matthew 6.  It has guided me quite easily since my Freshman year in high school, and I have never met an intelligent person who can find fault or ignorance in my faith.  I find weak minded folks on both sides of the religious debate, but Matthew 6 criticizes the weak minded who stand and pray the loudest that they have it figured out, as the fools who think they have proven the absence of God stand and proclaim all others are fools and gullible.   I am very comfortable intellectually with my faith.  I have laughed a lifetime on low intelligent folks claiming to prove the absence of God......or those who say they are the only ones who know how to find God......

And now the copy-and-paste email forwards.  

I can't disprove the existence of the christian god.  I also cannot disprove the existence of the tens of thousands of other gods either.  I cannot disprove that the heavens gate cult wasn't really on to something.   I cannot disprove the idea that a copy of Seinfeld Season 7 is currently orbiting Pluto. Certain things cannot be disproven. That doesn't mean that they exist or are even slightly likely to exist. I can't disprove Santa Claus. I can't disprove the Easter Bunny. I can't disprove the Tooth Fairy. I can't disprove the idea that Star Wars is real, and that the movie is actually a documentary showing real people doing real things.

2seaoat, do you believe in Zeus?  This is an honest question and not rhetorical in any way.  Do you believe in Zeus?