I just saw the video on the police stop on the TX driver who committed suicide

Vikingwoman wrote:It wasn't an unlawful arrest, Oatie and I don't know why you keep saying that. ....

Even if it were .... it has zero to do with her suicide.

Btw ... I was once an ACA certified local jail inspector & I recall exactly zero about plastic garbage bags being in holding cells in the ACA standards (unless, of course the inmate is on suicide watch)   I've also consulted on detention facility construction. I've been inside many a county jail as well as State and Federal prisons. Plastic garbage bags in cells are not uncommon.   (what do you think they make pruno in?)   In any case, ACA standards are only guidelines .... it's the Texas State Jail Commission standards that would be applicable in this case.

Now Ms Bland's family may have a case that she should have been placed on suicide watch given her conflicting responses during intake, but barring that ... there was no negligence regarding plastic garbage bags so far as I can tell.

I do give her creativity points for the whole garbage bag hanging thing though.

EmeraldGhost wrote:

Vikingwoman wrote:It wasn't an unlawful arrest, Oatie and I don't know why you keep saying that. ....

Even if it were .... it has zero to do with her suicide.

Btw ... I was once an ACA certified local jail inspector & I recall exactly zero about plastic garbage bags being in holding cells in the ACA standards (unless, of course the inmate is on suicide watch)   I've also consulted on detention facility construction. I've been inside many a county jail as well as State and Federal prisons. Plastic garbage bags in cells are not uncommon.   (what do you think they make pruno in?)   In any case, ACA standards are only guidelines .... it's the Texas State Jail Commission standards that would be applicable in this case.

Now the Ms Bland's may have a case that she should have been placed on suicide watch given her conflicting responses during intake, but barring that ... there was no negligence regarding plastic garbage bags so far as I can tell.

Then the defense will need to call you as an expert to counter the jail experts the Plaintiff will call.  Ever wonder why I know Dreams is clueless and knew the following"

Sorry, but your racial threads and hidden Leo background are obvious.....Navy...yep.

I must be lucky or something........

2seaoat wrote:
[b]Sorry, but your racial threads and hidden Leo background are obvious.....Navy...yep.

Navy?   You talking about me or you?   I was Army ... 4 years active 1979 to 1983, and four years inactive reserve with two week summer tours to active duty units.   I was an EOD Technician ... MOS 55D back then, I think they've changed the designation since.

And I don't think I've hidden the fact I have an LEO background ... except the agencies I worked for.  

I need to pay closer attention when you told us about your leo background because I never read that, but it was easy to pick out from your posts.....Dreams however is limited in her understanding of leo issues and is consistently wrong on legal issues.   Are you going to tell me that arrest would survive a motion to quash if Sandra lived and had competent representation?......now I will find out how smart you are........

2seaoat wrote:  ...   Are you going to tell me that arrest would survive a motion to quash if Sandra lived and had competent representation?.....

IMO .... probably.   Judges don't put up with a lot of BS & specious arguments by defense attorneys in cases such as this ... and appeals courts tend to back judges excepting if something especially egregious occurred with regard to a hearing or ruling on a motion.

I'm not an attorney, but I've worked with quite a few of them over the years & had a lot of training in the law regarding arrest, search & seizure.    I've also been on the stand through my share of probable cause and suppression hearings over the course of my 26 year career.   Never lost one.  I see some unprofessionalism on the part of the officer in this case .... but nothing that rises to the point of unlawful detention or arrest.

Have you continued reading the recent Supreme Court cases?  Do you understand the new timing requirement and limitation of a traffic stop?

2seaoat wrote:Have you continued reading the recent Supreme Court cases?  Do you understand the new timing requirement and limitation of a traffic stop?

As I previously said in this thread ... it could be well argued that Ms Bland's aberrant behavior & verbal responses to the Officer were cause to have her step out of the car for further observation as to possible chemical impairment or a welfare check as to her mental/psychological condition.  

It could be well argued even the Officer would have been negligent to allow a person who gave behavioral indications of possible impairment to go on down the road without further inquiry.

Her subsequent suicide is even further (after the fact) evidence she was exhibiting behavioral aberrations when encountered by the officer.

That cover up would be wrong.  The truth is the officer put her under arrest after non compliance on his request to put her smoke out....he was a rookie who lied to his superior on tape that he was asking her to leave to sign the citation.  The stop was over.....reread Rodriguez and see if you understand what the Supreme Court has clearly stated this was an unlawful arrest.

2seaoat wrote:I need to pay closer attention when you told us about your leo background because I never read that, but it was easy to pick out from your posts.....Dreams however is limited in her understanding of leo issues and is consistently wrong on legal issues.   Are you going to tell me that arrest would survive a motion to quash if Sandra lived and had competent representation?......now I will find out how smart you are........

LOL! This is coming from Oatie who has been consistently wrong about about his legal interpretations from Zimmerman to this case. Zimmerman=not guilty. Brown=not guilty May= apologized for his behavior and no Leo was fired or reprimanded. Bland will not be found illegally arrested. Bet on it.

2seaoat wrote:That cover up would be wrong.  The truth is the officer put her under arrest after non compliance on his request to put her smoke out....he was a rookie who lied to his superior on tape that he was asking her to leave to sign the citation.  The stop was over.....reread Rodriguez and see if you understand what the Supreme Court has clearly stated this was an unlawful arrest.

Atty. after atty. after atty. has opined on this case and the officer did not illegally arrest Bland. He had a right to ask her to step out of the car. Period. End of story.

Atty. after atty. after atty. has opined on this case and the officer did not illegally arrest Bland. He had a right to ask her to step out of the car. Period. End of story.

You mean the same folks who said they did nothing wrong at the jail either.......hmmmmmm

polecat wrote:

Vikingwoman wrote:

Floridatexan wrote:

Salinsky wrote:

Floridatexan wrote:
One night, when I was working as a leasing agent for an office complex on I-10, Shakey the painter brought me a bottle of Wild Turkey at the office Christmas party.  Well...we killed that, shut down the party, and went to a bar.  We also shut that down and I tried to find my way home.  No doubt...I was drunk and had no business driving.  I got stopped in one of the villages...the policeman:  1) had me follow him to the police lot, where I left my car, 2) drove me home, approx. 10 miles, 3) had me pick up the car the next morning, 4) did not even mention a citation, 5) did not charge me for the impound.  No DWI...no harassment...no nothing...just a good guy doing his job.

How old are you?

Just in the ballpark, not specifically.


My dad has told me that used to be the way these things were handled, but I think all that changed sometime around 1980 when MADD got rolling.

I don't mind telling my age.  I'm 65.  This was around 1976 or 77.  Since I was born in 1950, the age thingy is a no-brainer.  My marriage was on the rocks, and I was a very unhappy person.  And...the cop didn't want to arrest me.

I don't even know why you're telling that story? The idea you got into a vehicle drunk and risked the lives of other people and then come on here trying to excuse yourself saying you were unhappy and the cop drove you home as if that is something he was supposed to do is ludicrous. You committed a crime and got a pass. You were lucky you didn't kill somebody which doesn't excuse your negligence.

I put that here to contrast my treatment with that of a woman who is now no longer on this Earth. I suppose in your perfect existence you never did anything you're ashamed of. I'm not trying to excuse my behavior...what I did was not bright. But at least I know when I've done something stupid...and at least I got to live through it and learn from it. Sandra Bland got no such chance. She probably died in her cell from a head injury, and the police covered it up with a fake suicide.

2seaoat wrote:Atty. after atty. after atty. has opined on this case and the officer did not illegally arrest Bland. He had a right to ask her to step out of the car. Period. End of story.

You mean the same folks who said they did nothing wrong at the jail either.......hmmmmmm

No, Oatie. There have been numerous lawyers who weighed in on whether the officer had the right to ask her to step out of the car whether it was for smoking or not.

Floridatexan wrote:

Vikingwoman wrote:

Floridatexan wrote:

Salinsky wrote:

Floridatexan wrote:
One night, when I was working as a leasing agent for an office complex on I-10, Shakey the painter brought me a bottle of Wild Turkey at the office Christmas party.  Well...we killed that, shut down the party, and went to a bar.  We also shut that down and I tried to find my way home.  No doubt...I was drunk and had no business driving.  I got stopped in one of the villages...the policeman:  1) had me follow him to the police lot, where I left my car, 2) drove me home, approx. 10 miles, 3) had me pick up the car the next morning, 4) did not even mention a citation, 5) did not charge me for the impound.  No DWI...no harassment...no nothing...just a good guy doing his job.

How old are you?



Just in the ballpark, not specifically.


My dad has told me that used to be the way these things were handled, but I think all that changed sometime around 1980 when MADD got rolling.

I don't mind telling my age.  I'm 65.  This was around 1976 or 77.  Since I was born in 1950, the age thingy is a no-brainer.  My marriage was on the rocks, and I was a very unhappy person.  And...the cop didn't want to arrest me.

I don't even know why you're telling that story? The idea you got into a vehicle drunk and risked the lives of other people and then come on here trying to excuse yourself saying you were unhappy and the cop drove you home as if that is something he was supposed to do is ludicrous. You committed a crime and got a pass. You were lucky you didn't kill somebody which doesn't excuse your negligence.

I put that here to contrast my treatment with that of a woman who is now no longer on this Earth.  I suppose in your perfect existence you never did anything you're ashamed of.  I'm not trying to excuse my behavior...what I did was not bright.  But at least I know when I've done something stupid...and at least I got to live through it and learn from it.  Sandra Bland got no such chance.  She probably died in her cell from a head injury, and the police covered it up with a fake suicide.  

You're nuts!

You're nuts!

Why do you keep harping on mental health.....you know in Poker that is a tell.....Tex is not nuts.  I am not nuts.  Pace is not Nuts. and a lot of other forum members who you accused of being nuts are not nuts.  I once drove a VW bug into my front yard.  When I woke up the next day I had snapped the emergency brake cable having not released the same, and was thankful that my stupid act of driving while under the influence did not hurt another human being.....I never drove after that impaired.  The best compliment my kids gave me last year was they never saw me impaired.  I have a large blood volume and can drink more than smaller people, but I never was drunk in front of my kids.  They still give my wife a hard time because as the designated driver when we went to parties they saw her get chit faced enough to have made an impression and she does not drink that often.

Tex is simply saying a professional officer would have been more understanding.   Andy would have had Sandra on her way to her new Job.....Barney would have had Otis sleeping on the floor to clear the cell out for Sandra.   These are simple choices in life.  Right and wrong.

Jesus, Oatie can't you even address correctly what I said in my post? Fltex said Bland died from hitting her head on the floor and the jail covered it up as a suicide. We don't even know how Bland was found and she makes that brilliant conclusion? The woman had no injuries on her per the autopsy except cuts on her arm. That's nuts to say something like that and PD is nuts!

Floridatexan wrote:

Vikingwoman wrote:

Floridatexan wrote:

Salinsky wrote:

Floridatexan wrote:
One night, when I was working as a leasing agent for an office complex on I-10, Shakey the painter brought me a bottle of Wild Turkey at the office Christmas party.  Well...we killed that, shut down the party, and went to a bar.  We also shut that down and I tried to find my way home.  No doubt...I was drunk and had no business driving.  I got stopped in one of the villages...the policeman:  1) had me follow him to the police lot, where I left my car, 2) drove me home, approx. 10 miles, 3) had me pick up the car the next morning, 4) did not even mention a citation, 5) did not charge me for the impound.  No DWI...no harassment...no nothing...just a good guy doing his job.

How old are you?

Just in the ballpark, not specifically.


My dad has told me that used to be the way these things were handled, but I think all that changed sometime around 1980 when MADD got rolling.

I don't mind telling my age.  I'm 65.  This was around 1976 or 77.  Since I was born in 1950, the age thingy is a no-brainer.  My marriage was on the rocks, and I was a very unhappy person.  And...the cop didn't want to arrest me.

I don't even know why you're telling that story? The idea you got into a vehicle drunk and risked the lives of other people and then come on here trying to excuse yourself saying you were unhappy and the cop drove you home as if that is something he was supposed to do is ludicrous. You committed a crime and got a pass. You were lucky you didn't kill somebody which doesn't excuse your negligence.

I put that here to contrast my treatment with that of a woman who is now no longer on this Earth.  I suppose in your perfect existence you never did anything you're ashamed of.  I'm not trying to excuse my behavior...what I did was not bright.  But at least I know when I've done something stupid...and at least I got to live through it and learn from it.  Sandra Bland got no such chance.  She probably died in her cell from a head injury, and the police covered it up with a fake suicide.  

Wow! I guess the tell tale signs of a head injury was covered up by the paramedics, coroner technicians, medical examiner, and probably pathologists.


Answer a straight forward question....would you give a damn about this if Bland was white?

Answer a straight forward question....would you give a damn about this if Bland was white?

The constitution should be color blind so my answer would be HELL yes.  "I am going to light you up" are words that do not belong in America.

LOL! What should he have said,Oatie say "I'm going to give you a little zap if you don't get out of the car?" You make a big deal out of nothing.

Vikingwoman wrote:Jesus, Oatie can't you even address correctly what I said in my post? Fltex said Bland died from hitting her head on the floor and the jail covered it up as a suicide. We don't even know how Bland was found and she makes that brilliant conclusion? The woman had no injuries on her per the autopsy except cuts on her arm. That's nuts to say something like that and PD is nuts!

No, I didn't say that. On the video of the stop, you can hear her saying that the cop slammed her head into the ground and she couldn't hear. Have you ever had a concussion?

If she had a concussion it would have showed up on the autopsy as the cause of death and all the jailers who were involved in this "cover up" of this woman's death would be found out. Don't you think? Hanging a person after they are dead would be pretty obvious,for crying out loud. Didn't you say you were at the top of your class?

2seaoat wrote:Answer a straight forward question....would you give a damn about this if Bland was white?

The constitution should be color blind so my answer would be HELL yes.  "I am going to light you up" are words that do not belong in America.

The question was directed at FT and FT only....not you, me or anyone else.

Joanimaroni wrote:

2seaoat wrote:Answer a straight forward question....would you give a damn about this if Bland was white?

The constitution should be color blind so my answer would be HELL yes.  "I am going to light you up" are words that do not belong in America.

The question was directed at FT and FT only....not you, me or anyone else.

That's a really dumb question.

Floridatexan wrote:

Joanimaroni wrote:

2seaoat wrote:Answer a straight forward question....would you give a damn about this if Bland was white?

The constitution should be color blind so my answer would be HELL yes.  "I am going to light you up" are words that do not belong in America.

The question was directed at FT and FT only....not you, me or anyone else.

That's a really dumb question.

No... it's perfectly relevant. The fact that you cherry pick your outrage is telling. Black lives matter politically to leftists.