Every word in the bible is true. Yeah, sure it is.

Bob wrote:Don't forget,  what you "believe" was predicated on where you happened to be born.
If you had been born in an Islamic society,  you likely would have Islamic beliefs.
If you had been born in Japan,  you would have a different set of beliefs.  Born in India,  yet another set of beliefs.

Thats it. What we believe is what we have been taught by or our parents in most cases. Republicans beget Republicans, Democrats beget Democrats,

Bob wrote:"Good" and "evil" are human ideas.  Word concepts which originate in the human intellect.  Nothing more and nothing less.
Our ideas of what is good and what is evil are subjective and they can change with time.  They can derive from instinct and they can derive from our experiences.  Or derive from a combination of both.
There is no "stone tablet" with good and evil written on it.  That too is a creation of our minds.

I do believe that's what I've been saying.

*****CHUCKLE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KMpZaEF6g0#aid=P5RmW8nAt-A

  

Sal wrote:

colaguy wrote:

It's possible for a guy to f@@k his sister, mother, brother, or a sheep, but is it moral?

Oh Christ, here comes Spread Eagle ....

.... thank gawd for the ignore function.

That's right! Close your eyes and ears to anything but your narrow-vision world view. For someone who despises organized religion and the written works of organized religion you can't hide your latent closet religious beliefs.

Hypocrite!

*****ROFLMAO******

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nqcL0mjMjw

  

Bob wrote:

Try to understand what I'm saying.  You're attempting to make a distinction that I don't make.  
I'm saying that humanity is not set apart from "nature".  It is a part of nature.  Our physical being,  our ideas,  our behaviour,  how we impact on everything surrounding us,  all of it is a part of nature.  
It's not like there's a nature and then there's a humanity.  It's all the same thing.

Well said.

*****WARM SMILE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAkSIwaUaNc#aid=P-TLW2lKuRg

  

Bob wrote:I'm open-minded.  So if anyone wants to try to explain the nature of existence to me I welcome that with great enthusiasm.

A good first step is to explain to me what created God?  Why is God in existence?  Where does he come from?  
Or if you want to take the "science" path,  you can begin by explaining what was in existence before "The Big Bang".

*****CHUCKLE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-e2bptjUOc

  

Religious beliefs have been with us throughout the whole history of civilization.
And 400 years after the beginning of the "Scientific Revolution",  it's still going strong.
That's because religious beliefs provide us answers for unanswerable questions.  Unanswerable questions mainly about our existence, our suffering,  and our mortality.  
Our species has a strange and complicated reality to say the least.    lol

I guess if I had to cite one thing I've observed which stands out for me about the gods of the "Abrahamic" religions, it's that none of them appear to have any sense of humor. And I find that to be just about the ultimate in irony. lol

SheWrites wrote:

Damaged Eagle wrote:
After all if good and evil are abstract human constructs and those constructs are all relative then any scale will be simply a respective summation unique to the specific individual and will in all probability be meaningless to someone else.

*****CHUCKLE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSFU8fYkqDg

 

So, are humans inherently good or inherently evil?  Does that come one size fits all and then we change or is it inherent that we are good or evil at our base?  

What is good and what is evil?

Are you asking me to choose and take up the burden for all?

Do you want me to have the power over all to determine what is good and what is evil?

*****CHUCKLE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spHEw2n9LwE

 

"When any government, or any church for that matter, undertakes to say to its subjects, This you may not read, this you must not see, this you are forbidden to know, the end result is tyranny and oppression no matter how holy the motives."
Robert A. Heinlein

Bob wrote:I guess if I had to cite one thing I've observed which stands out for me about the gods of the "Abrahamic" religions,  it's that none of them appear to have any sense of humor.  And I find that to be just about the ultimate in irony.   lol

*****CHUCKLE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5MwScwGass

 

“God created men to test the souls of women.”
Robert A. Heinlein

Damaged Eagle wrote:

SheWrites wrote:

Damaged Eagle wrote:
After all if good and evil are abstract human constructs and those constructs are all relative then any scale will be simply a respective summation unique to the specific individual and will in all probability be meaningless to someone else.

*****CHUCKLE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSFU8fYkqDg

 

So, are humans inherently good or inherently evil?  Does that come one size fits all and then we change or is it inherent that we are good or evil at our base?  

What is good and what is evil?

Are you asking me to choose and take up the burden for all?

Do you want me to have the power over all to determine what is good and what is evil?

*****CHUCKLE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spHEw2n9LwE

 

"When any government, or any church for that matter, undertakes to say to its subjects, This you may not read, this you must not see, this you are forbidden to know, the end result is tyranny and oppression no matter how holy the motives."
Robert A. Heinlein

I take it that's a 'NO'...

*****CHUCKLE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0G1TgseTPH0

  

You answer questions with questions so I didn't have anything else to say. Been busy. Don't have my mind on these larger philosophical issues right now.

You know super heroes are Jesus figures, right?   

SheWrites wrote:You answer questions with questions so I didn't have anything else to say.  Been busy.  Don't have my mind on these larger philosophical issues right now.

How am I supposed to answer the question without a common point of reference as to what good and evil are?

After all since good and evil are human constructs then how do I know that your concept of good isn't that of a homicidal manic? 

SheWrites wrote:You know super heroes are Jesus figures, right?    

Are they?

*****CHUCKLE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3orQKBxiEg

  

See we have a different view on super heroes.   

SheWrites wrote:See we have a different view on super heroes.    

It would be boring if everyone agreed on everything.

*****CHUCKLE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBRoQ91W1rk

  

That is an absolute-ly correct statement.

SheWrites wrote:That is an absolute-ly correct statement.

So my answer to your earlier question is that all people are inherently good or evil in their own world view.

Now are you going to answer some of my questions?

*****CHUCKLE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHWLVxg8MxA

  

But is a human mind capable of self policing? When does your accepted life choice become danger to me? Or vice versa?

So again...what's the foundation?

SheWrites wrote:But is a human mind capable of self policing?

What do you mean by self policing?

SheWrites wrote:When does your accepted life choice become danger to me? Or vice versa?

I'd change that to 'danger or benefit'.

SheWrites wrote:So again...what's the foundation?

That is the question now isn't it? How can one individual choose what's good or evil for all when everyone has a different world view?..... Are you asking me to choose what's good or evil for all? If so my answer is...

*****SMILE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00Jjj6oI5fg

 

Repercussions?

SheWrites wrote:Repercussions?

There's always repercussions when making decisions for others or yourself. Just look at the issues discussed in this forum.

*****CHUCKLE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02cZoM5reqo

  

Another thought in this banter of good/evil...law...who is moral/immoral...where does the rule/law/sovereign oversight come from/originate:  

What Western Civilizations had/have law of a nonreligious base?

SheWrites wrote:Ahh, King Ludwig's castle.  Good king or evil king??  All in the perspective...

Of course. Isn't that what it's all about? Attempting to push our perspectives on each other.

The author of this thread didn't have to accept the beliefs of others but decided to instigate a argument over something he doesn't have to believe by provoking others...

Was he good or evil?

*****CHUCKLE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ALWswZu-lc

  

SheWrites wrote:

Another thought in this banter of good/evil...law...who is moral/immoral...where does the rule/law/sovereign oversight come from/originate:  

What Western Civilizations had/have law of a nonreligious base?

Posting got out of sequence...hit the wrong button. Damn this evil keyboard!

  

Ludwig...great lover of the arts. Good guy in my mind. Pretty "house."

See quote above for new question...

SheWrites wrote:

SheWrites wrote:

Another thought in this banter of good/evil...law...who is moral/immoral...where does the rule/law/sovereign oversight come from/originate:  

What Western Civilizations had/have law of a nonreligious base?

Posting got out of sequence...hit the wrong button.  Damn this evil keyboard!

  

Ludwig...great lover of the arts.  Good guy in my mind.  Pretty "house."  

See quote above for new question...

How do you separate the two unless you eliminate all religions?

In which case you would have to start form scratch. Then you would have to decide what is good and what is evil for all.

In doing so how do you know your moral imperatives are any better than what the various religions have come up with?

*****CHUCKLE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09l_zXCQpik

 

Damaged Eagle wrote:

SheWrites wrote:

SheWrites wrote:

Another thought in this banter of good/evil...law...who is moral/immoral...where does the rule/law/sovereign oversight come from/originate:  

What Western Civilizations had/have law of a nonreligious base?

Posting got out of sequence...hit the wrong button.  Damn this evil keyboard!

  

Ludwig...great lover of the arts.  Good guy in my mind.  Pretty "house."  

See quote above for new question...

How do you separate the two unless you eliminate all religions?

In which case you would have to start form scratch. Then you would have to decide what is good and what is evil for all.

In doing so how do you know your the moral imperatives are any better than what the various religions have come up with?

*****CHUCKLE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09l_zXCQpik

 

Let's back up. If we start from scratch, and look at "rules" "law" regardless -
where is the instance in civilization where rule/law became associated with a monotheistic doctrine?

If there is a rule of law/order prior to those based on monotheistic doctrine - where did it come from?

From the people, right?

Where did the people get the sense of right/wrong, need for law/order, etc?