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Pensacola Discussion Forum » Politics » Kim Davis is released from jail because deputy clerk is issuing guess who shows up

Kim Davis is released from jail because deputy clerk is issuing guess who shows up

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polecat
boards of FL
TEOTWAWKI
2seaoat
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2seaoat



He can at anytime say it is valid. His decision can be appealed, but it would be the law. He wisely did not make that declaration. He got compliance to issue the licenses. A wise judge limits the reach of their decisions to simple compliance and not much more.

Joanimaroni

Joanimaroni

boards of FL wrote:
2seaoat wrote:may you find compassion somewhere.


I have known good Christian families my entire life who wanted NO part of politics or the bastardization of the same over the last thirty years.  They quietly lead a Christian life without wearing the same on their sleeve to draw attention or pray the loudest.  They understand the scriptures and I have watched their actions and how they have raised their children and contributed to the community.  The sad thing is these good people get lumped together with this hypocritical political showboating which has nothing to do with the scripture and Jesus clearly warned us of this evil.......Ted Cruz is the personification of evil....he is using religion to manipulate people for power, Huckabamboozler just likes the money and living on the beach.....Seen that and get it......but please do not confuse this behavior with good christians who quietly live their lives with true belief.





Do you agree with this statement?  Christians view homosexuality as a sin.

No.

EmeraldGhost

EmeraldGhost

2seaoat wrote:He can at anytime say it is valid.  His decision can be appealed, but it would be the law.  He wisely did not make that declaration.  He got compliance to issue the licenses.   A wise judge limits the reach of their decisions to simple compliance and not much more.

He got "compliance", huh.   I don't know that Clerk Davis agreed to anything at all.

Per KY law marriage licenses issued by Deputy Clerks without the consent of the clerk are of questionable validity.   Judge Bunning admitted as much.

He caved in the face of public pressure by far-right Christian groups.  

Talk about having the courage of one's convictions .... sounds to me like Judge Bunning has darn little of that.   Not surprising though ... he was a mediocre law student .... and the ABA opposed his confirmation as a Federal District Judge ... he was in their opinion unqualified for the post.  He only got the job (at the age of 34) because his baseball-hero father was a Senator and is a crony of Mitch McConnel.

btw ... the original (smart) Federal Judge who was assigned this case recused himself, so they dumped it on Dumb-Bunny Bunning.



Last edited by EmeraldGhost on 9/8/2015, 10:43 pm; edited 1 time in total

2seaoat



You are simply wrong. Your guidance is incorrect. However, it is simple. Tell me about your supposed invalidity in a year. You will be wrong. Oh the clerk's office is issuing marriage certificates. If she now interferes with the same after being released, the Judge will give a sum certain sentence of probably 30 days, and release her. If she interferes again, you could see a six month jail stint. Judicial restraint works best, and this judge has been very reserved with his authority. When you have a big stick, you only have to use it once and awhile.

EmeraldGhost

EmeraldGhost

2seaoat wrote:You are simply wrong.  Your guidance is incorrect.  However, it is simple.  Tell me about your supposed invalidity in a year.  You will be wrong.  Oh the clerk's office is issuing marriage certificates.  If she now interferes with the same after being released, the Judge will give a sum certain sentence of probably 30 days, and release her.  If she interferes again, you could see a six month jail stint.  Judicial restraint works best, and this judge has been very reserved with his authority.  When you have a big stick, you only have to use it once and awhile.

She does not have to interfere with anything.   The Deputy Clerk licenses are not valid unless issued with the Clerk's consent.  That's per Kentucky State law.   (there are no Federal marriage licenses, in case you didn't know)  

Has she given her consent?  Not that I've heard .... so much as I've heard to date her position remains unchanged.   She hasn't consented or agreed to anything.   The Judge just caved & saw a way out for himself.  If you've heard different, well, give us a link to that.

The Kentucky State Legislature will hopefully fix this thing in January with some retroactive legislation.  (It was theirs to fix in the first place.)   Of course I'm sure the far Christian right will weigh in on that too, so who knows what they'll do given the nature of Kentucky politics.

Of course, Ms Davis could just fire the Deputies too. The are not elected ... they are in her employ. Doubt she would, but wouldn't that be interesting?

2seaoat



The Deputy Clerk licenses are not valid unless issued with the Clerk's consent.

You are wrong. Where is the statutory method of determining consent? This will be fun.

EmeraldGhost

EmeraldGhost

2seaoat wrote:The Deputy Clerk licenses are not valid unless issued with the Clerk's consent.

You are wrong.  Where is the statutory method of determining consent?   This will be fun.

State law dictates marriage licenses are issued by the County Clerk.  I already cited & linked the statute for you.  (I note you've linked pretty much nothing to back up your opinions)  

The Deputies are employees.  Their authority only extends so far as the Clerk delegates to them of hers.   This is common in government.

Ms Davis has not delegated her authority to issue marriage licenses to any of her Deputies so far as I've heard.  But like I said earlier ... if you know different, well .... then link it & we'll take a look.


(btw --- did you know there is a prescribed from in Kentucky statute for marriage licenses.    County Clerks or the deputies cannot just make up their own form or modify the statutorily prescribed from. The statute says, in pertinent part, that the form shall contain:  

An  authorization  statement  of  the  county  clerk  issuing  the  license ....   http://www.lrc.ky.gov/statutes/statute.aspx?id=36475

Removing the Clerk's "authorization statement" makes it of dubious validity.   And it's not just me saying so.  Even Judge Bunning knew this ... but he apparently just wanted a way out of the hot seat he put himself in.

Floridatexan

Floridatexan

EmeraldGhost wrote:
2seaoat wrote:The Deputy Clerk licenses are not valid unless issued with the Clerk's consent.

You are wrong.  Where is the statutory method of determining consent?   This will be fun.

State law dictates marriage licenses are issued by the County Clerk.  I already cited & linked the statute for you.  (I note you've linked pretty much nothing to back up your opinions)  

The Deputies are employees.  Their authority only extends so far as the Clerk delegates to them of hers.   This is common in government.

Ms Davis has not delegated her authority to issue marriage licenses to any of her Deputies so far as I've heard.  But like I said earlier ... if you know different, well .... then link it & we'll take a look.


(btw --- did you know there is a prescribed from in Kentucky statute for marriage licenses.    County Clerks or the deputies cannot just make up their own form or modify the statutorily prescribed from.   The statute says, in pertinent part, that the form shall contain:  

An  authorization  statement  of  the  county  clerk  issuing  the  license ....   http://www.lrc.ky.gov/statutes/statute.aspx?id=36475

Removing the Clerk's "authorization statement" makes it of dubious validity.   And it's not just me saying so.  Even Judge Bunning knew this ... but he apparently just wanted a way out of the hot seat he put himself in.

The judge put himself in the hot seat? No, he didn't. The dumbass holy roller clerk put him in the hot seat, and now she's a willing pawn for the "religious" hucksters running for president. What a dolt. You're arguing the law here and you've failed apparently to recognize that the CLERK didn't follow the law. Her oath of office required her to follow the Constitution of the United States.

EmeraldGhost

EmeraldGhost

Floridatexan wrote:
The judge put himself in the hot seat?  No, he didn't.  The dumbass holy roller clerk put him in the hot seat, and now she's a willing pawn for the "religious" hucksters running for president.  

Well, of course she did ... but he did too by not dismissing the case.   Plaintiffs should have sought relief in State court first.


   Her oath of office required her to follow the Constitution of the United States.

What Federal law is there against a County Clerk violating their oath of office?   Statute citation please.

Violating her oath of office is State offense ... both prosecutable as a misdemeanor & impeachable.   The County had already initiated charges of  "Official Misconduct."   Kentucky Statutes 522.020 & 522.030

" knowingly .... Refrains from performing a duty imposed upon him by law or clearly inherent in the nature of his office .. .

http://www.lrc.ky.gov/statutes/statute.aspx?id=19888

and

http://www.lrc.ky.gov/statutes/statute.aspx?id=19889

The State needs to direct her to resume issuing marriage licenses and then prosecute her if she refuses ... which is what they are doing.   She can then be removed from her seat as County Clerk.   The Federal Judiciary has no authority to remove her from her elected seat for failing to do her job ... the State legislature does.

Rowan County Attorney's Office said on Friday that it has referred to the Attorney General's Office a charge of official misconduct against Davis. A release from the county attorneys office says Kentucky Bar Association "Rules of the Supreme Court of Kentucky prohibit the Rowan County Attorney's Office from prosecuting Davis" because they are involved in current litigation with Davis.

"Typically, the attorney general's office refers conflict cases to a prosecutor from another county," the release says.

The release says Rowan County Government and the Rowan County Attorney's Office cannot take any other action against Kim Davis.

"Kentucky state government is the only entity that can move to have Kim Davis removed as Rowan County Clerk," the release says.  
 http://www.wkyt.com/home/headlines/Supporters-opponents-gather-outside-Rowan-County-clerks-office-323227931.html


This whole thing could have been avoided by allowing the State of Kentucky to deal with their rogue elected official.  But no .... the homosexual lobby & their fellow travelers wanted a big gaudy Federal show-trial and a clash with the religious right that they had to know would ensue.   Why am I not surprised.   Dimbulb Federal Judge Bunning should have dismissed the complaint out-of-hand & directed plaintiffs to seek relief in State Court first ... or held the Federal Complaint in abeyance giving the State of Kentuckyi opportunity to act on & resolve the matter first.   But, as I previously discussed ... he's not really a very smart man.  Mediocre law student, got his job via nepotism & cronyism ... the ABA testified he was unqualified during his Senate confirmation hearing.   But for Mitch McConnell's relationship with his daddy, this guy would have never been appointed to a Federal District Judgeship.   He had not even previously been a Federal US Magistrate Judge.   No wonder they threw the case to him when the other Federal District Judge (wisely) recused himself.

Floridatexan

Floridatexan


She. violated. her. oath.

2seaoat



Their authority only extends so far as the Clerk delegates to them of hers.

You are lost on comprehending the law, but let me help you with your stellar legal logic...what happens when the clerk has the flu, or is away for a week at a conference or vacation? Do they shut the office down? Do they quit issuing marriage certificates? How statutorily do we find this magic consent requirement when she is on vacation? Are all the certificates issued during the time invalid until she returns? Does she go through those issued and invalidate some because they do not meet her consent? Stupid cannot be fixed, and your logic is sophomoric at best. The judge followed the law and solved the problem.

boards of FL

boards of FL

2seaoat wrote:Do you agree with this statement?  Christians view homosexuality as a sin.



The small church I attended Easter this year celebrates their homosexual members and do not see their love as a sin.  Now I attended another church two years ago that clearly the majority of its members viewed homosexuals as sinners.  80% of my friends who are devout Christians do not see homosexuals as sinners because we all share the same friends and could care less that they find love and comfort with their own sex.......these are smart people.  Now my brother is a fundamentalist who sent his kids to Christian schools and Christian colleges and does believe it is a sin, but his hypocrisy is so silly based on his own personal life choices and actions.  So no, I do not believe the threshold of Christian beliefs hinges on the personal views of Christians on whether homosexuality is a sin.   There is not one right answer on this issue in the scriptures or in actual opinions held by followers of christ.  There are contradictions which for the simple minded are ignored, but for the intelligent become a doctrinal problem.



I'm sure there are people out there who were indoctrinated into christianity from childhood.  Their parents were brought to church from an early age, their grandparents, their great grandparents, etc., etc.   They likely go through all the motions and show up when they're supposed to because that is what they know.  They're generally good people and may not have ever even read the bible, but they are familiar with the "good parts".  I know many people who identify as christians that fit this category.  Do they genuinely believe there is a god who took human form to come down to earth to be tortured?  Probably not or perhaps they have never even honestly considered that proposition.  Do they genuinely believe in talking snakes, stoning women to death, or any of the other absurdity in the bible?  Probably not.   Do they believe in a vague idea of some sort of deity that perhaps isn't the god from the christian bible but that may have had a hand in the big bang?  Perhaps.   So are they really christians?  Probably not.  Agnostics?  Maybe.  Vague deists?  Perhaps.  But true christians?  Probably not.

Those people are the result of social inertia.  They happened to be born in a certain time and place, in a certain culture with certain values and they were indoctrinated into all of that.  But independent of all of that, people also have the ability to learn and reason.  Independent of all of that, people generally exhibit curiosity and a desire to understand reality and the nature of the universe.  Many likely see obvious conflict between reality and parts of the bible.  Many likely see obvious conflict between morality and much of the bible.  Being that the case, many are able to partition their religious belief as something of a tradition or inherited culture, as opposed to a literal belief or way of life.  I suspect that the people you speak of fit into this category.


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Sal

Sal

Davis is an elected state official.

She is trying to use her government position to impose her religious views on gay citizens of her district.

To paint her as standing up to the government is bizarre.

She is violating the prohibition on state officials establishing an official religion.

And, she is discriminating against her own constituents, as surely as if she were refusing to license inter-racial marriages — which were illegal in some states until the SCOTUS Loving ruling.

Guest


Guest

She's just another democrat using her govt position as an activist to promote her subjective social agenda.

You just don't happen to agree with this one... hence the hand wringing and teeth gnashing. Tough shit comrade.

boards of FL

boards of FL

PkrBum wrote:She's just another democrat using her govt position as an activist to promote her subjective social agenda.


Just when you think he's hit rock bottom...


_________________
I approve this message.

Sal

Sal

PkrBum wrote:She's just another democrat

Hence the photo ops with Mike Huckabee and Ted Cruz, eh Poindexter?

Nice try, but it doesn't fly.

EmeraldGhost

EmeraldGhost

2seaoat wrote:Their authority only extends so far as the Clerk delegates to them of hers.

You are lost on comprehending the law, but let me help you with your stellar legal logic...what happens when the clerk has the flu, or is away for a week at a conference or vacation?

Unless the Clerk has delegated her authority to one of her assistants ... it falls to the County Judge .... I'm  not just saying that ... that's per Kentucky Statute.

402.240  
County judge/executive to issue license in absence of clerk.

In  the  absence  of  the  county  clerk,  or  during  a  vacancy  in  the  office,  the  county judge/executive  may  issue  the  license  and,  in  so  doing,  he  shall  perform  the  duties  and incur  all  the  responsibilities  of  the  clerk.  The  county  judge/executive  shall  return  a memorandum  thereof  to  the  clerk,  and  the  memorandum  shall  be  recorded  as  if  the license had been issued by the clerk.
http://www.lrc.ky.gov/statutes/statute.aspx?id=36490

The County Clerk's assistants, or Deputies as they are titled, are hired employees - not elected officials.   They have no statutory authority vested in their positions other than those the Clerk chooses to delegate to them.   Statutory authority to issue marriage licenses in Kentucky is vested in the County Clerk ... and in their absence, the County Judge/Executive.   Check it out if you don't believe me.

My guess is Kentucky is going to be tired of this whole thing by January ... they'll let the Clerk's assistants continue issuing licenses till the legislature convenes in January and retroactively makes the "deputy issued" licenses valid ... in addition to making some other changes to their marriage statutes.

In the meantime (hopefully) they will pursue prosecution of Ms Davis for Official Misconduct (statute previously quoted & linked) & hope she just resigns to they won't have to remove her via impeachment.   But ... ya never know with Kentucky.   They do have that wacky Creation Science Museum up there.

Or maybe she will consent to her deputies/assistants issuing same-sex licenses on her behalf ... but I kind of doubt that.  She seems to be pretty full of Christian zeal from what I've read about her. But she might if her pastor tells her it's okay.

2seaoat



Or maybe she will consent to her deputies/assistants issuing same-sex licenses on her behalf ... but I kind of doubt that.

Duh......all across America folks in Clerks offices issue licenses that the Clerk never sees.   The office of the clerk and the employees in that office do their job.  Just like they did when they issued the certificates in compliance with the constitution.   This is simple.  You just are using the hocus pocus smoke and mirror of the constitutional genius Huckabamboozler......he is a total constitutional moron......but I will say this.....he fits in really well on the beach.



You said you lived on Navarre Beach for awhile......is this not exactly what Kenny and his closed mind gang is all about.....I mean really.....Huckabamboozler is the prototypical person attracted to the beach.....apologies to Knot....but really....this guy has been cloned and his clones are out on the beach.

EmeraldGhost

EmeraldGhost

2seaoat wrote:Or maybe she will consent to her deputies/assistants issuing same-sex licenses on her behalf ... but I kind of doubt that.

Duh......all across America folks in Clerks offices issue licenses that the Clerk never sees.  ....

Because the Clerk normally delegates her authority to subordinates ... she can revoke it though. And she did. 3 days after the Obergefell decision.

Have you never held a position in which statutory authority was vested in your position .... and only in your subordinates via your delegation of it to them? Do you understand how that works? I have in the past been both a Federal manager with certain statutory authorities, and certain others delegated to me ... and an elected official for 4 years (alderman.)

I haven't heard whereas Ms Davis has now consented to the employees in her office to begin re-issuing marriage licenses to anyone under her statutory authority as County Clerk? In fact, I'm getting rather the opposite from her attorney's remarks. Seems she is going to continue to be rather obstinate about it.

EmeraldGhost

EmeraldGhost

2seaoat wrote:

You said you lived on Navarre Beach for awhile......is this not exactly what Kenny and his closed mind gang is all about.....

I didn't know any "Kenny" when I lived on Navarre Beach, so I couldn't really speak to that ... and don't get the relevance anyway.

EmeraldGhost

EmeraldGhost

Update:

Just located the statute wherein the Deputy Clerk issued licenses may be okay ..... Kentucky Statute 61.035

(of course ... she could always fire the clerks?)

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