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Pensacola Discussion Forum » Politics » What Law Has Rowan County Clerk Kim Davis Violated?

What Law Has Rowan County Clerk Kim Davis Violated?

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TEOTWAWKI
2seaoat
Sal
EmeraldGhost
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EmeraldGhost

EmeraldGhost

Kentucky has a marriage law that prescribes County Clerks may issue marriage licenses and limits that to opposite sex couples.

SCOTUS overturns the opposite-sex provision of the law as unconstitutional.

Kentucky has not, to date, passed a new law allowing for issuance of marriage licenses to opposite sex couples.

Having no new marriage law to implement, Rowan County Clerk Kim Davis, thus, stops issuing marriage licenses for everyone.  Same-sex & opposite-sex alike.

The Supreme Court can invalidate laws they find to be unconstitutional ... but they cannot write a new one.   And I know of no Federal law or provision of the US Constitution that requires States to issue marriage licenses at all.

So ... what law has she violated?

Sal

Sal

Ever heard of the Supremacy Clause?

2seaoat



I know of no Federal law or provision of the US Constitution that requires States to issue marriage licenses at all.

So ... what law has she violated?


The 14th amendment equal protection clause. In regard to why she is in jail, it is because she is in direct contempt of the Judge's order for her to comply with the law which does not allow her to discriminate against a citizen because they choose to marry and she does not approve. This is pretty simple stuff.

EmeraldGhost

EmeraldGhost

She hasn't discriminated against anybody.  She stopped accepting marriage license applications from all comers ... heterosexual, homosexual, same-sex, opposite sex, polygynists, etc

The Kentucky marriage law has been invalidated ... she therefore has no law to implement.

She's a Kentucky State official .... so where is the Kentucky law that authorizes her to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples?

Where's the Federal law that requires State County Clerks .... or even States themselves... to issue marriage licenses at all?

All the SCOTUS ruling says is they can't discriminate in the implementation of marriage laws.  She's not discriminating ... she's not issuing to anybody at all.

Statute citations, please.

EmeraldGhost

EmeraldGhost

Salinsky wrote:Ever heard of the Supremacy Clause?

Uh, huh.

And what Federal law requires a State County Clerk to issue a marriage license in the first place?

TEOTWAWKI

TEOTWAWKI

She is not charged with breaking the law..she is being held in contempt of court...that means the Judge hasn't got a law he's just pissed off..

2seaoat



Statute citations, please.


No, it appears that some program for dimwits has ignited the analytic skills of a slug in some of our forum members. So a black person in Alabama in 1960 could be discriminated because the legislature refused to change their laws.....so fricking stupid that it is becoming predictable......Mr. Wallace at the school door.....please cite the statute which allows black people to attend the University of Alabama......well shazammmmmm sgt Carter....these folks be smart.

Government cannot take rights away from Citizens under our constitution because of an affirmative law or statute, or the absence of the same. Huckabamboozler sitting in his all white beach house eating his grits and playing Supreme Court Justice......stupid cannot be fixed.

2seaoat



She is not charged with breaking the law..she is being held in contempt of court...that means the Judge hasn't got a law he's just pissed off..


You are too smart for such silliness. So let me ask you a question. Florida decides that in order for you to have your conceal and carry permit, you cannot be a christian. The Supreme Court rules this is a violation of the equal protection clause under the 14th amendment. 48 of the counties start issuing conceal permits to Christians, but a Muslim clerk decides it is against their religion to have violent Christians with guns. He refuses to issue permits to Christians and simply stops issuing all conceal and carry permits to all citizens. A Christian who wants his conceal and carry permit files a writ of mandamus in the federal court seeking compliance with the law. The Judge rules that the clerk must issue the conceal and carry permit. The clerk says no, in America I have religious freedom to deny a Christian a conceal and carry permit. The judge says comply with the lawful order or you are in contempt of court. The clerk says.....sorry, I do not have to follow the law because florida has not changed the law...........so you are good with Government taking your rights away? You and others believe that constitutional protection require a statute number......we really need to start teaching civics in school again.....idiocy.

Sal

Sal

Ho ...

... ly ...

... Shit ...

What Law Has Rowan County Clerk Kim Davis Violated? 1187122

EmeraldGhost

EmeraldGhost

Can the Supreme Court compel a State to have a marriage law at all?

That is the question I am wanting to hear some answers about.

EmeraldGhost

EmeraldGhost

2seaoat wrote:.....Mr. Wallace at the school door.....please cite the statute which allows black people to attend the University of Alabama.

Not perfectly analogous to this situation ... but let's make it so.

Supposing the University of Alabama at that time just decided not to allow any students at all to attend, regardless of race, religion, etc. Where would be the United States Supreme Court's authority to compel the State to operate a University of Alabama at all?

2seaoat



Supposing the University of Alabama at that time just decided not to allow any students at all to attend, regardless of race, religion, etc. Where would be the United States Supreme Court's authority to compel the State to operate a University of Alabama at all?

Yes. Where the intent to deny blacks access to the school by shutting down the entire school, the federal courts under consent decrees can set the guidelines for a government unit to be in compliance with the law, and under those plans can have people working for those court ordered goals. This happens all over the country even in these times. Tuscon schools have been constantly under federal scrutiny and directives as consent decrees give a path to compliance.

http://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/court-approves-consent-decree-desegregate-tucson-public-schools

EmeraldGhost

EmeraldGhost

2seaoat wrote:Supposing the University of Alabama at that time just decided not to allow any students at all to attend, regardless of race, religion, etc. Where would be the United States Supreme Court's authority to compel the State to operate a University of Alabama at all?

Yes.  Where the intent to deny blacks access to the school by shutting down the entire school, the federal courts under consent decrees can set the guidelines for a government unit to be in compliance with the law, and under those plans can have people working for those court ordered goals.  This happens all over the country even in these times.  Tuscon schools have been constantly under federal scrutiny and directives as consent decrees give a path to compliance.

http://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/court-approves-consent-decree-desegregate-tucson-public-schools

Supposing the Kentucky legislature repeals their marriage law in it's entirety, can the court compel them to issue marriage licenses to people.

EmeraldGhost

EmeraldGhost

2seaoat wrote:
Yes.  Where the intent to deny blacks access to the school by shutting down the entire school, the federal courts under consent decrees can set the guidelines for a government unit to be in compliance with the law, and under those plans can have people working for those court ordered goals.  This happens all over the country even in these times.  Tuscon schools have been constantly under federal scrutiny and directives as consent decrees give a path to compliance.

http://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/court-approves-consent-decree-desegregate-tucson-public-schools

How many elected members of the Tucson school board were threatened with, or went to jail, for contempt of court?

2seaoat



How many elected members of the Tucson school board were threatened with, or went to jail, for contempt of court?

I would suggest with the conceptual problems that you are having that if you have HBO you can view the program show me a hero mini series which deals with the failure of Yonkers city officials to comply with a court order dealing with building affordable housing in the community.....and yes fines and jail were involved until there was compliance with the Court's orders. I think you could learn a great deal. I do not want to ruin your viewing, but would suggest the court got compliance. I used Tuscon as an example because it is an active file, but the courts have been there, done that for fifty plus years.

EmeraldGhost

EmeraldGhost

"Other states are also contemplating getting out the marriage business entirely. In Mississippi, State House Judiciary Chairman Andy Gipson told the Clarion-Ledger that he had some interest in that idea.  “I personally can see pros and cons to that. I don’t know if it would be better to have no marriage certificate sponsored by the state or not. But it’s an option out there to be considered.”

"In a response to a federal court ruling last year overturning Oklahoma’s gay marriage ban, the state’s House of Representatives voted in March to abolish marriage licenses, leaving them entirely up to clergy. “Marriage was historically a religious covenant first and a government-recognized contract second,” Republican Rep. Todd Russ told The Oklahoman."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/09/04/tenn-judge-refuses-to-grant-straight-couple-a-divorce-because-of-gay-marriage/




"Alabama Senate Approves Bill to Abolish Marriage Licensing" http://truthinmedia.com/alabama-senate-approves-bill-to-abolish-marriage-licensing/

Oh, noe's!!!!!   What will SCOTUS do?  

Will they compel States to marry people?  Where will they find that Constitutional authority?

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

EmeraldGhost wrote:What Law Has Rowan County Clerk Kim Davis Violated?

The supreme law.  The one which should be superceding all other law. Or at least guiding it.

http://www.teachingvalues.com/goldenrule.html

Wordslinger

Wordslinger

EmeraldGhost wrote:Kentucky has a marriage law that prescribes County Clerks may issue marriage licenses and limits that to opposite sex couples.

SCOTUS overturns the opposite-sex provision of the law as unconstitutional.

Kentucky has not, to date, passed a new law allowing for issuance of marriage licenses to opposite sex couples.

Having no new marriage law to implement, Rowan County Clerk Kim Davis, thus, stops issuing marriage licenses for everyone.  Same-sex & opposite-sex alike.

The Supreme Court can invalidate laws they find to be unconstitutional ... but they cannot write a new one.   And I know of no Federal law or provision of the US Constitution that requires States to issue marriage licenses at all.

So ... what law has she violated?

The responsibilities of the Clerk of the County Court include the issuance and recording of Why marriage licenses. In addition, it's perfectly clear that Mz. Davis opted to not issue licenses for straights for the purpose of furthering her interference with the requirement to issue same sex marriage licenses. The violation confronts Federal, not State law in Kentucky. By the way, the Clerk of the County Court that Kim Davis worked for is now issuing marriage licenses -- to all who qualify, straight or gay.

In this case, you advocate that public employees should be able to conduct themselves according to their interpretations of their holy book, even when so doing prevents the operation of their public office.

And you recently argued for the right of people to discriminate against other people because of their color, sex, sexual preferences, or political creed, etc.


You're a real throwback, aren't you? LOL

EmeraldGhost

EmeraldGhost

Wordslinger wrote:
The responsibilities of the Clerk of the County Court include the issuance and recording of Why marriage licenses.  

I've seen a Kentucky State law that authorizes County Clerks to issue marriage licenses .... I've not seen one that compels them to.

Apparently Rown County has referred this issue of not issuing marriage licenses to the State's Attorney for prosecution for some type of Kentucky "malfeasance of office" offense (I forget the actual offense title.)

SCOTUS should have let Kentucky handle it ... until such time as she was actually discriminating against a particular class of people by issuing licenses to one class & denying them to another. Then they could have stepped in. They jumped the gun on this.

EmeraldGhost

EmeraldGhost

Wordslinger wrote:
In this case, you advocate that public employees should be able to conduct themselves according to their interpretations of their holy book, even when so doing prevents the operation of their public office.


Your words, not mine.  

I'm just trying to figure out what law she's violated by not issuing marriage licenses to anyone.  And none of you all have still been able to point directly to it.   She's not even denying licenses ... she's just been refusing to accept applications ... from anyone.   That's not discrimination.


If the manager of a diner serves whites but not blacks, that's discrimination. So the Supreme Court rules the diner must serve blacks as well (which it did), and the manager decides to just shut the diner down and not serve anyone.



  • Can the Supreme Court force the manager to re-open the diner in order that blacks can get a meal?  



  • Can the owner of the diner force the manager to either re-open & serve everyone ... or face dismissal?



Personally, I think she should have had the "courage of her convictions" to step down.   But what we believe about something personally, and what the law is are two different things.  I have no problem differentiating that.  Can't say the same for others.

Floridatexan

Floridatexan


Besides directly defying the judge's order, she also swore an oath of office.

Section 228 of the Kentucky Constitution, oath of officers and attorneys:

Members of the General Assembly and all officers, before they enter upon the execution of the duties of their respective offices, and all members of the bar, before they enter upon the practice of their profession, shall take the following oath or affirmation:

"I do solemnly swear (or affirm, as the case may be) that I will support the Constitution of the United States and the Constitution of this Commonwealth, and be faithful and true to the Commonwealth of Kentucky so long as I continue a citizen thereof, and that I will faithfully execute, to the best of my ability, the office of ——————— according to law; and I do further solemnly swear (or affirm) that since the adoption of the present Constitution, I, being a citizen of this State, have not fought a duel with deadly weapons within this State nor out of it, nor have I sent or accepted a challenge to fight a duel with deadly weapons, nor have I acted as second in carrying a challenge, nor aided or assisted any person thus offending, so help me God."

———

— Source: Kentucky Legislative Research Commission

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/oath-court-clerk-now-jailed-gay-marriage-33516278

TEOTWAWKI

TEOTWAWKI

Yeah she's been in office for a while now...I think she swore an oath to a different law before the gay agenda kicked into gear...They changed the rules in midstream.



Last edited by TEOTWAWKI on 9/5/2015, 8:30 pm; edited 1 time in total

Guest


Guest

by TEOTWAWKI Yesterday at 4:31 pm
She is not charged with breaking the law..she is being held in contempt of court...that means the Judge hasn't got a law he's just pissed off..
---
Exactly

Guest


Guest

Can't wait to see outcome of Muslim flight attendant who refused to serve alcohol to passenger. I have yet to see courts rule against Muslims yet. When the Muslim gets her way, so will mrs Davis and the Christian bakers

EmeraldGhost

EmeraldGhost

Obamasucks wrote:by TEOTWAWKI Yesterday at 4:31 pm
She is not charged with breaking the law..she is being held in contempt of court...that means the Judge hasn't got a law he's just pissed off..
---
Exactly

So what do you think ... he's pissed off because there's no law by which he, as a Federal Judge, can compel a State of Kentucky County Official to accept marriage license applications?

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