Hands Up Don't shoot story based on lies- stunning reversal by author

Joanimaroni wrote:

othershoe1030 wrote:

Joanimaroni wrote:

othershoe1030 wrote:The moral of the story is of course that there is a culture of stupidity in nearly all areas of the country due to the lack of understanding between the races.

The moral of the story is that the Ferguson Police are woefully under trained and they are not alone.

The moral of the story is that if you are walking down the middle of the street (which is a common practice for blacks and possibly others) you should not be told from a roaming police car to "get the F out of the street" or something to that effect. That is just not good policing any way you look at it.

How should this be handled?

Hey guys, how's it goin'? How about walking on the sidewalk? Etc. etc.  

I mean when the first words out of the cop's mouth is laced with F bombs...I mean really? Is that a good idea? Really? Police are supposed to use the least amount of pressure/physical constraints, as necessary to control a situation. Do not yell, use as quiet a voice as possible. Do not escalate the situation by your actions if possible. This is just good police practice. Why make your job more dangerous or difficult?

Would it hurt to at least start out being reasonably polite?


They could also have ignored it since it was really no big deal. Instead it turned into a pizzing contest and resulted in a deadly shooting.

I like to imagine the scene playing out in which there was a black and a white cop in the car or possibly two female cops, one black, one white or even two of each color. I just can't help imagine that the situation would have been handled much better with a little kidding around if necessary in order to get the guys out of the street. It did not have to escalate as it did.

And if Wilson did not use the  f-bomb, would you feel the same way?

Markle wrote:

othershoe1030 wrote:The moral of the story is of course that there is a culture of stupidity in nearly all areas of the country due to the lack of understanding between the races.

The moral of the story is that the Ferguson Police are woefully under trained and they are not alone.

The moral of the story is that if you are walking down the middle of the street (which is a common practice for blacks and possibly others) you should not be told from a roaming police car to "get the F out of the street" or something to that effect. That is just not good policing any way you look at it.

Strange, until the past year or so, I traveled a lot.  Never did I see anyone walking down the middle of the road so it is not common practice.

Please show us the sworn testimony from the Grand Jury or the statement from the Eric Holder report.  In the words of Hillary Clinton, what difference does it make?

othershoe1030 wrote:

Joanimaroni wrote:

othershoe1030 wrote:

Joanimaroni wrote:

othershoe1030 wrote:The moral of the story is of course that there is a culture of stupidity in nearly all areas of the country due to the lack of understanding between the races.

The moral of the story is that the Ferguson Police are woefully under trained and they are not alone.

The moral of the story is that if you are walking down the middle of the street (which is a common practice for blacks and possibly others) you should not be told from a roaming police car to "get the F out of the street" or something to that effect. That is just not good policing any way you look at it.

How should this be handled?

Hey guys, how's it goin'? How about walking on the sidewalk? Etc. etc.  

I mean when the first words out of the cop's mouth is laced with F bombs...I mean really? Is that a good idea? Really? Police are supposed to use the least amount of pressure/physical constraints, as necessary to control a situation. Do not yell, use as quiet a voice as possible. Do not escalate the situation by your actions if possible. This is just good police practice. Why make your job more dangerous or difficult?

Would it hurt to at least start out being reasonably polite?


They could also have ignored it since it was really no big deal. Instead it turned into a pizzing contest and resulted in a deadly shooting.

I like to imagine the scene playing out in which there was a black and a white cop in the car or possibly two female cops, one black, one white or even two of each color. I just can't help imagine that the situation would have been handled much better with a little kidding around if necessary in order to get the guys out of the street. It did not have to escalate as it did.

And if Wilson did not use the  f-bomb, would you feel the same way?

Using the f bomb was indicative of the attitude of the police and of their inadequate training. To give them the benefit of a doubt, they may have had training but if so it was not applied in this situation.

When a conversation is started in that manner the only way to go from there is down, which is what happened.

KarlRove wrote:Liberals are just angry they didn't get to lynch a cop. He did it all by the book and they are butthurt over it. It doesn't exonerate other things that
Might have happened in Ferguson, but you can't hang Wilson for others misdeeds.

othershoe1030 wrote:

KarlRove wrote:Liberals are just angry they didn't get to lynch a cop. He did it all by the book and they are butthurt over it. It doesn't exonerate other things that
Might have happened in Ferguson, but you can't hang Wilson for others misdeeds.

No one wants to lynch anyone. What a sickening statement that is.

He did it by the book only to the point where he didn't have to be arrested for what he did. It is still piss poor policing.

The entire system in Ferguson is in need of a complete overhaul. Wilson was unlucky enough to get caught but as you point out he was not alone as the report shows.

KarlRove wrote:

othershoe1030 wrote:

KarlRove wrote:Liberals are just angry they didn't get to lynch a cop. He did it all by the book and they are butthurt over it. It doesn't exonerate other things that
Might have happened in Ferguson, but you can't hang Wilson for others misdeeds.

No one wants to lynch anyone. What a sickening statement that is.

He did it by the book only to the point where he didn't have to be arrested for what he did. It is still piss poor policing.

The entire system in Ferguson is in need of a complete overhaul. Wilson was unlucky enough to get caught but as you point out he was not alone as the report shows.

What would you know about being a cop except for what you have read in the news? I was married to one for eight years.  And YES you liberals wanted to lynch Wilson over thug Michael Brown. You can deny all you want, but that is the fact. His actions were by the book and it pisses you off that you weren't able to ramrod him into prison. Lynching Wilson isn't going to fix what happened to Michael Brown. That will take an effort on the cops and the citizens of the Ferguson area.

othershoe1030 wrote:But if Wilson had not used the F-bomb, you are saying the situation might have been different, right?


The F-bomb is just part of the picture.
I'm saying there were many different ways this could have been handled that wouldn't have resulted in a person being shot dead in the street.

The incident is a textbook example of lousy policing. Officer Wilson's actions reveal that he thought he could act with impunity toward these two guys. He could treat them with disrespect without fear of sanctions from his superiors. Many people are now talking about the need to completely dismantle the FPD because these attitudes are endemic. The F-bomb is just part of the overall picture of the culture of racism in Ferguson.

Joanimaroni wrote:

othershoe1030 wrote:But if Wilson had not used the F-bomb, you are saying the situation might have been different, right?


The F-bomb is just part of the picture.
I'm saying there were many different ways this could have been handled that wouldn't have resulted in a person being shot dead in the street.

The incident is a textbook example of lousy policing. Officer Wilson's actions reveal that he thought he could act with impunity toward these two guys. He could treat them with disrespect without fear of sanctions from his superiors. Many people are now talking about the need to completely dismantle the FPD because these attitudes are endemic. The F-bomb is just part of the overall picture of the culture of racism in Ferguson.

Speaking of attitudes, let's discuss Michael Brown's attitude minutes before his encounter with Wilson.  Brown and his accomplice had just committed a strong armed robbery and the video clearly shows Brown  intimidating the store owner with his commanding size. Maybe the store owner dropped the F-bomb when he was nose to belly button with Brown pissing Brown off . Who knows. According to your theory robbery is no excuse for piss-poor customer relations by the store owner being robbed.

The witness, the friend and robbery accomplice of Brown is the only  person that claimed Wilson used the "f-bomb".  The same witness testified Brown had his hands up when he was shot in the back.  Of course his sworn statement changed when the autopsy proved him wrong.

Maybe just maybe it was Brown's attitude that set the stage. Wilson told Brown to get out of the street, even though walking in the middle of the street is a "black" thing. Brown refused and challenged Wilson....he slammed the car door on Wilson as he attempted to exit the cruiser. Brown then reached into the car and assaulted Wilson while attempting to get Wilson's gun. Brown's DNA on the gun supported this forensic account inside the cruiser.

If Brown had compiled with Wilson....would we have had a different outcome?

othershoe1030 wrote:

Joanimaroni wrote:

othershoe1030 wrote:But if Wilson had not used the F-bomb, you are saying the situation might have been different, right?


The F-bomb is just part of the picture.
I'm saying there were many different ways this could have been handled that wouldn't have resulted in a person being shot dead in the street.

The incident is a textbook example of lousy policing. Officer Wilson's actions reveal that he thought he could act with impunity toward these two guys. He could treat them with disrespect without fear of sanctions from his superiors. Many people are now talking about the need to completely dismantle the FPD because these attitudes are endemic. The F-bomb is just part of the overall picture of the culture of racism in Ferguson.

Speaking of attitudes, let's discuss Michael Brown's attitude minutes before his encounter with Wilson.  Brown and his accomplice had just committed a strong armed robbery and the video clearly shows Brown  intimidating the store owner with his commanding size. Maybe the store owner dropped the F-bomb when he was nose to belly button with Brown pissing Brown off . Who knows. According to your theory robbery is no excuse for piss-poor customer relations by the store owner being robbed.

The witness, the friend and robbery accomplice of Brown is the only  person that claimed Wilson used the "f-bomb".  The same witness testified Brown had his hands up when he was shot in the back.  Of course his sworn statement changed when the autopsy proved him wrong.

Maybe just maybe it was Brown's attitude that set the stage. Wilson told Brown to get out of the street, even though walking in the middle of the street is a "black" thing. Brown refused and challenged Wilson....he slammed the car door on Wilson as he attempted to exit the cruiser. Brown then reached into the car and assaulted Wilson while attempting to get Wilson's gun. Brown's DNA on the gun supported this forensic account inside the cruiser.

If Brown had compiled with Wilson....would we have had a different outcome?

According to your theory robbery is no excuse for piss-poor customer relations by the store owner being robbed.

My theory involves public safety employees (AKA police) who should have been trained in methods of interacting with people in a professional manner even during stressful situations. It has nothing to do with store owners and customer relations.

If Brown had compiled with Wilson....would we have had a different outcome?

Duh.

Joanimaroni wrote:

othershoe1030 wrote:

Joanimaroni wrote:

othershoe1030 wrote:But if Wilson had not used the F-bomb, you are saying the situation might have been different, right?


The F-bomb is just part of the picture.
I'm saying there were many different ways this could have been handled that wouldn't have resulted in a person being shot dead in the street.

The incident is a textbook example of lousy policing. Officer Wilson's actions reveal that he thought he could act with impunity toward these two guys. He could treat them with disrespect without fear of sanctions from his superiors. Many people are now talking about the need to completely dismantle the FPD because these attitudes are endemic. The F-bomb is just part of the overall picture of the culture of racism in Ferguson.

Speaking of attitudes, let's discuss Michael Brown's attitude minutes before his encounter with Wilson.  Brown and his accomplice had just committed a strong armed robbery and the video clearly shows Brown  intimidating the store owner with his commanding size. Maybe the store owner dropped the F-bomb when he was nose to belly button with Brown pissing Brown off . Who knows. According to your theory robbery is no excuse for piss-poor customer relations by the store owner being robbed.

The witness, the friend and robbery accomplice of Brown is the only  person that claimed Wilson used the "f-bomb".  The same witness testified Brown had his hands up when he was shot in the back.  Of course his sworn statement changed when the autopsy proved him wrong.

Maybe just maybe it was Brown's attitude that set the stage. Wilson told Brown to get out of the street, even though walking in the middle of the street is a "black" thing. Brown refused and challenged Wilson....he slammed the car door on Wilson as he attempted to exit the cruiser. Brown then reached into the car and assaulted Wilson while attempting to get Wilson's gun. Brown's DNA on the gun supported this forensic account inside the cruiser.

If Brown had compiled with Wilson....would we have had a different outcome?

According to your theory robbery is no excuse for piss-poor customer relations by the store owner being robbed.

My theory involves public safety employees (AKA police) who should have been trained in methods of interacting with people in a professional manner even during stressful situations. It has nothing to do with store owners and customer relations.

If Brown had compiled with Wilson....would we have had a different outcome?

Duh.

The store owner- customer relations scenerio has to do with Brown's attitude. You seem to want to blame Wilson while discounting Brown's behaviour and prior criminal activity.


According to testimony, Wilson did not use the F word.

othershoe1030 wrote:

Joanimaroni wrote:

othershoe1030 wrote:

Joanimaroni wrote:

othershoe1030 wrote:But if Wilson had not used the F-bomb, you are saying the situation might have been different, right?


The F-bomb is just part of the picture.
I'm saying there were many different ways this could have been handled that wouldn't have resulted in a person being shot dead in the street.

The incident is a textbook example of lousy policing. Officer Wilson's actions reveal that he thought he could act with impunity toward these two guys. He could treat them with disrespect without fear of sanctions from his superiors. Many people are now talking about the need to completely dismantle the FPD because these attitudes are endemic. The F-bomb is just part of the overall picture of the culture of racism in Ferguson.

Speaking of attitudes, let's discuss Michael Brown's attitude minutes before his encounter with Wilson.  Brown and his accomplice had just committed a strong armed robbery and the video clearly shows Brown  intimidating the store owner with his commanding size. Maybe the store owner dropped the F-bomb when he was nose to belly button with Brown pissing Brown off . Who knows. According to your theory robbery is no excuse for piss-poor customer relations by the store owner being robbed.

The witness, the friend and robbery accomplice of Brown is the only  person that claimed Wilson used the "f-bomb".  The same witness testified Brown had his hands up when he was shot in the back.  Of course his sworn statement changed when the autopsy proved him wrong.

Maybe just maybe it was Brown's attitude that set the stage. Wilson told Brown to get out of the street, even though walking in the middle of the street is a "black" thing. Brown refused and challenged Wilson....he slammed the car door on Wilson as he attempted to exit the cruiser. Brown then reached into the car and assaulted Wilson while attempting to get Wilson's gun. Brown's DNA on the gun supported this forensic account inside the cruiser.

If Brown had compiled with Wilson....would we have had a different outcome?

According to your theory robbery is no excuse for piss-poor customer relations by the store owner being robbed.

My theory involves public safety employees (AKA police) who should have been trained in methods of interacting with people in a professional manner even during stressful situations. It has nothing to do with store owners and customer relations.

If Brown had compiled with Wilson....would we have had a different outcome?

Duh.

The store owner- customer relations scenerio has to do with Brown's attitude. You seem to want to blame Wilson while discounting Brown's behaviour and prior criminal activity.


According to testimony, Wilson did not use the F word.

Brown was no Boy Scout, granted. Wilson may not have told the guys to get the F up on the sidewalk. Brown may have been hyped up on adrenalin after his recent encounter at the store.

It may seem as if I am discounting Brown's behavior but the fact remains that the situation between Wilson and Brown was completely in Wilson's control. He was the adult in this situation. He was the one who was supposed to be trained in handling these sorts of things. He was the one who could have chosen any number of ways of dealing with the situation.

It was because Wilson decided to handle it the way he did that a kid lost his life, received a death sentence on the spot for walking in the street and according to the video, robbing the store. Death for shoplifting and death for walking in the street seems a bit over the top don't you think?

Because of the way it escalated Wilson ended up in fear of his life. He was a dumbass who created the situation.

Granted, there is the possibility that even after his parents tried their hardest to keep this kid on the right track that he was an 18 year old jerk. Even 18 year old jerks should not be shot dead.

Sure, he should have said, "Sorry officer, thank you for noticing that we are at risk of being hurt in an automobile accident. We'll get up on the sidewalk." Would that have been the end of it? Maybe, maybe not. We'll never know.  

Joanimaroni wrote:Moral.....Brown was above the law because of his color.

boards of FL wrote:

Joanimaroni wrote:Moral.....Brown was above the law because of his color.

I don't think "above the law" means what you think it means.  

boards of FL wrote:

Joanimaroni wrote:Moral.....Brown was above the law because of his color.

I don't think "above the law" means what you think it means.  

Joanimaroni wrote:

boards of FL wrote:

Joanimaroni wrote:Moral.....Brown was above the law because of his color.

I don't think "above the law" means what you think it means.  

I think it means that Brown didn't think the law applied to him. What do you think I think it means?

boards of FL wrote:

Joanimaroni wrote:

boards of FL wrote:

Joanimaroni wrote:Moral.....Brown was above the law because of his color.

I don't think "above the law" means what you think it means.  

I think it means that Brown didn't think the law applied to him. What do you think I think it means?

Well, generally the guy who kills a guy and then walks is said to be "above the law", not the other way around.  

I'm curious as to how you even rationalize that in your mind.  

1.  Officer Wilson kills Brown.

2.  Officer Wilson walks.

3.  Joanimaroni concludes that Brown is "above the law".


It's like saying accusing the team that is losing by 100 of flagrantly cheating.

boards of FL wrote:

Joanimaroni wrote:

boards of FL wrote:

Joanimaroni wrote:Moral.....Brown was above the law because of his color.

I don't think "above the law" means what you think it means.  

I think it means that Brown didn't think the law applied to him. What do you think I think it means?

Well, generally the guy who kills a guy and then walks is said to be "above the law", not the other way around.  

I'm curious as to how you even rationalize that in your mind.  

1.  Officer Wilson kills Brown.

2.  Officer Wilson walks.

3.  Joanimaroni concludes that Brown is "above the law".


It's like saying accusing the team that is losing by 100 of flagrantly cheating.