Personal ID for Voting

knothead wrote:How do these very poor people get through other avenues that require a photo ID?

joani, in regards to your above post you are comparing apples with oranges or at least in my mind.  "Other avenues" to use your description are not necessarily guaranteed in the Constitution while voting is in fact a right derived from it.  Laws passed in predominantly red states imposing these requirements are telling in what they deem as totally reasonable but the unspoken motive is plain as day . . . . to deny or restrict many in our nation their right to cast a vote.

I'm not making a comparison at all. I asked a logical question.

Sal how does money get deposited into a bank account when they have to have an ID card to open the account?

Joanimaroni wrote:

knothead wrote:How do these very poor people get through other avenues that require a photo ID?

joani, in regards to your above post you are comparing apples with oranges or at least in my mind.  "Other avenues" to use your description are not necessarily guaranteed in the Constitution while voting is in fact a right derived from it.  Laws passed in predominantly red states imposing these requirements are telling in what they deem as totally reasonable but the unspoken motive is plain as day . . . . to deny or restrict many in our nation their right to cast a vote.

I'm not making a comparison at all. I asked a logical question.

That's what I'm trying to do.  I just never hear anything about photo ID except in regards to voting issues.

Sal:  I recently became a relative's guardian.  I have had to apply for all types of services on his behalf.  There has not been one single thing I have been able to do for him without his personal identification (and of course, the guardianship papers). Edited to add: Of course, I never said, "No, he does not have identification." Maybe the various agencies would have done something to accommodate his lack of identification.

A high school diploma should be required to vote at a minimum.

QueenOfHearts wrote:

Joanimaroni wrote:

knothead wrote:How do these very poor people get through other avenues that require a photo ID?

joani, in regards to your above post you are comparing apples with oranges or at least in my mind.  "Other avenues" to use your description are not necessarily guaranteed in the Constitution while voting is in fact a right derived from it.  Laws passed in predominantly red states imposing these requirements are telling in what they deem as totally reasonable but the unspoken motive is plain as day . . . . to deny or restrict many in our nation their right to cast a vote.

I'm not making a comparison at all. I asked a logical question.

That's what I'm trying to do.  I just never hear anything about photo ID except in regards to voting issues.

Sal:  I recently became a relative's guardian.  I have had to apply for all types of services on his behalf.  There has not been one single thing I have been able to do for him without his personal identification (and of course, the guardianship papers).  Edited to add:  Of course, I never said, "No, he does not have identification."  Maybe the various agencies would have done something to accommodate his lack of identification.

Oops.....a stumbling block in their justification.

I can not withdraw cash from my bank without a photo ID and signature, which happens to be a good thing. On a side note...Considering credit card theft and identity theft.....I think credit cards use should require a pin number or at least a photo ID.

PACEDOG#1 wrote:Sal how does money get deposited into a bank account when they have to have an ID card to open the account?

Money does not actually go to a bank account.  People  who have services such as EBT or Social Security will have a card that works like a pre-paid credit card.  Their monies are loaded onto the card on the appropriate date each month.  EBT food cards can be used only for food.  With EBT cash cards, they can withdraw the maximum monthly allowance in cash and use it however they choose. SS cards can be used at an ATM to withdraw cash.  Any ATM, no bank account required.

Personally, I don't know of a single person who gets services via a card and who has a bank account.  Many drive without a license.  You and Joani are perhaps thinking they live like normal middle-income families with bank accounts and bills to pay.  These are the people who pay their bills in cash, sometimes paying a fee to pay them at the nearest convenience store.  These are people who often don't get a license to drive.  These are people who are under the radar, but they still have a legal right to vote in their city/county/state of residence.

As for people who don't have birth certificates, both my mother and my MIL were born at home in the middle of the country with no doctor, no midwife, and no requirement to register their birth.  Both had to provide notarized school documents and other data to get a birth certificate so that they could renew their driver's licenses.  It was costly and took a very long time.  They both did it because they had the money and they wanted to be within legal guidelines.   Not everyone has the same resources.

BirdyBack wrote:

PACEDOG#1 wrote:Sal how does money get deposited into a bank account when they have to have an ID card to open the account?

Money does not actually go to a bank account.  People  who have services such as EBT or Social Security will have a card that works like a pre-paid credit card.  Their monies are loaded onto the card on the appropriate date each month.  EBT food cards can be used only for food.  With EBT cash cards, they can withdraw the maximum monthly allowance in cash and use it however they choose. SS cards can be used at an ATM to withdraw cash.  Any ATM, no bank account required.

Personally, I don't know of a single person who gets services via a card and who has a bank account.  Many drive without a license.  You and Joani are perhaps thinking they live like normal middle-income families with bank accounts and bills to pay.  These are the people who pay their bills in cash, sometimes paying a fee to pay them at the nearest convenience store.  These are people who often don't get a license to drive.  These are people who are under the radar, but they still have a legal right to vote in their city/county/state of residence.

As for people who don't have birth certificates, both my mother and my MIL were born at home in the middle of the country with no doctor, no midwife, and no requirement to register their birth.  Both had to provide notarized school documents and other data to get a birth certificate so that they could renew their driver's licenses.  It was costly and took a very long time.  They both did it because they had the money and they wanted to be within legal guidelines.   Not everyone has the same resources.

If the government has enough money to give them an EBT card, then give them a photo ID too. I'm tired of hearing how it disenfranchises them when they do nothing for themselves.

PACEDOG#1 wrote:A high school diploma should be required to vote at a minimum.

That would have excluded my grandparents on both sides. It would currently exclude an inordinate number of young people who are very capable of functioning in society, supporting themselves and making a decision.

PACEDOG#1 wrote:
If the government has enough money to give them an EBT card, then give them a photo ID too. I'm tired of hearing how it disenfranchises them when they do nothing for themselves.

But you are wanting to just GIVE them an ID?  I would prefer to mandate documentation for EBT recipients, the same REAL ID documentation that is required for me to renew my driver's license. it might cut down on some of the fraud and abuse.

PACEDOG#1 wrote:
If the government has enough money to give them an EBT card, then give them a photo ID too. I'm tired of hearing how it disenfranchises them when they do nothing for themselves.

ROTFLMAO!!

My entire life, I've listened to wingnuts argue that a national ID would lead to jack-booted thugs stopping you in the streets and demanding to see your papers.

And, here's Ol' Peedawg wanting just that.

Sieg Heil!!, Peedawg.

         

by BirdyBack Today at 4:23 pm
PACEDOG#1 wrote:
“
A high school diploma should be required to vote at a minimum.
”That would have excluded my grandparents on both sides. It would currently exclude an inordinate number of young people who are very capable of functioning in society, supporting themselves and making a decision.
-------
We are at a different time in the history of this nation. Fraud and a power grab are currently underway at this time. If you call being able to do nothing but work minimum wage jobs "functioning" then that's part of the problem too. We have the 47% that is voting themselves the treasury and that's an issue too.

Sal, I e been carrying some sort of ID since age 10, what's your point? It's just another piece of plastic in your pocket.

PACEDOG#1 wrote:
We are at a different time in the history of this nation. Fraud and a power grab are currently underway at this time. If you call being able to do nothing but work minimum wage jobs "functioning" then that's part of the problem too. We have the 47% that is voting themselves the treasury and that's an issue too.

Yes, we are at a different time but the same voting laws apply. One cannot be excluded because of their education or lack thereof. Fraud and power grabs are part of politics, nothing new there. As for working minimum wage jobs, there are college graduates who can find nothing more than minimum wage jobs. My son was one of them for 2 years after he graduated with two masters degrees. Higher education does not guarantee gainful employment. Have you not been paying attention?

PACEDOG#1 wrote:A high school diploma should be required to vote at a minimum.

We are all gleeful you do not serve in the judiciary . .

Joanimaroni wrote:

QueenOfHearts wrote:

Joanimaroni wrote:

knothead wrote:How do these very poor people get through other avenues that require a photo ID?

joani, in regards to your above post you are comparing apples with oranges or at least in my mind.  "Other avenues" to use your description are not necessarily guaranteed in the Constitution while voting is in fact a right derived from it.  Laws passed in predominantly red states imposing these requirements are telling in what they deem as totally reasonable but the unspoken motive is plain as day . . . . to deny or restrict many in our nation their right to cast a vote.

I'm not making a comparison at all. I asked a logical question.

That's what I'm trying to do.  I just never hear anything about photo ID except in regards to voting issues.

Sal:  I recently became a relative's guardian.  I have had to apply for all types of services on his behalf.  There has not been one single thing I have been able to do for him without his personal identification (and of course, the guardianship papers).  Edited to add:  Of course, I never said, "No, he does not have identification."  Maybe the various agencies would have done something to accommodate his lack of identification.

Oops.....a stumbling block in their justification.  

I can not withdraw cash from my bank without a photo ID and signature, which happens to be a good thing. On a side note...Considering credit card theft and identity theft.....I think credit cards use should require a pin number or at least a photo ID.

This is not an Oops moment at all joani. The so-called justification of implementing Voter ID requirements is alleged fraudulent voting but that has been documented to be a non-issue since only 4 or 5 incidents have been identified out of 4 million votes cast. It is clearly a roadblock or a pathway to disenfranchise citizens' right to vote and it is perplexing why fair-minded people do not conclude the same. I understand the simplification of the topic by posing rhetorical questions but the larger issue is the impediment and burden placed on some our most under represented people that are citizens just like you or I, they are the forgotten here.

by BirdyBack Today at 5:02 pm
PACEDOG#1 wrote:
“

We are at a different time in the history of this nation. Fraud and a power grab are currently underway at this time. If you call being able to do nothing but work minimum wage jobs "functioning" then that's part of the problem too. We have the 47% that is voting themselves the treasury and that's an issue too.
”Yes, we are at a different time but the same voting laws apply. One cannot be excluded because of their education or lack thereof. Fraud and power grabs are part of politics, nothing new there. As for working minimum wage jobs, there are college graduates who can find nothing more than minimum wage jobs. My son was one of them for 2 years after he graduated with two masters degrees. Higher education does not guarantee gainful employment. Have you not been paying attention?
---------------
You seem to want to make a lot of excuses for everyone.

An education is the key to making a Democracy work.... Including everyone obviously isn't working anymore because all we have is people electing others that guarantee a handout. I'm giving my students an American citizenship test starting Friday thru the weekend just to show them what others , who are beating he door down to live here, have to go through to get to stay legally. Also, to highlight their lack of knowledge on their own country.

PACEDOG#1 wrote:

Dreamsglore wrote:The fact of the matter is, it is difficult for low income people to get ID. I think everybody should have one but it is much more difficult to get one when you're poor. Fifty dollars is a lot of money to a poor person not to mention when you have to get certified copies of your BC and other documents.
As far as having to have one to get health insurance that is incorrect. People who get welfare and disability no longer cash checks. It is all deposited in a bank or savings account.

You WILL have to have an ID to get Obamacare services. I want the Feds to pay for the IDs too.  That way the whining about the unfairness of it can end. It's not $50 for an ID either at the local driver's license office.

Wrong. You apply for Obamacare online and all you need is your social.

BirdyBack wrote:

PACEDOG#1 wrote:Sal how does money get deposited into a bank account when they have to have an ID card to open the account?

Money does not actually go to a bank account.  People  who have services such as EBT or Social Security will have a card that works like a pre-paid credit card.  Their monies are loaded onto the card on the appropriate date each month.  EBT food cards can be used only for food.  With EBT cash cards, they can withdraw the maximum monthly allowance in cash and use it however they choose. SS cards can be used at an ATM to withdraw cash.  Any ATM, no bank account required.

Personally, I don't know of a single person who gets services via a card and who has a bank account.  Many drive without a license.  You and Joani are perhaps thinking they live like normal middle-income families with bank accounts and bills to pay.  These are the people who pay their bills in cash, sometimes paying a fee to pay them at the nearest convenience store.  These are people who often don't get a license to drive.  These are people who are under the radar, but they still have a legal right to vote in their city/county/state of residence.

As for people who don't have birth certificates, both my mother and my MIL were born at home in the middle of the country with no doctor, no midwife, and no requirement to register their birth.  Both had to provide notarized school documents and other data to get a birth certificate so that they could renew their driver's licenses.  It was costly and took a very long time.  They both did it because they had the money and they wanted to be within legal guidelines.   Not everyone has the same resources.

my mother would have been 85 last year had she lived. she was born at HOME to POOR dirt farmers. she had a birth certificate.

so please show me where you do not have to register a live birth?

Dreamsglore wrote:

PACEDOG#1 wrote:

Dreamsglore wrote:The fact of the matter is, it is difficult for low income people to get ID. I think everybody should have one but it is much more difficult to get one when you're poor. Fifty dollars is a lot of money to a poor person not to mention when you have to get certified copies of your BC and other documents.
As far as having to have one to get health insurance that is incorrect. People who get welfare and disability no longer cash checks. It is all deposited in a bank or savings account.

You WILL have to have an ID to get Obamacare services. I want the Feds to pay for the IDs too.  That way the whining about the unfairness of it can end. It's not $50 for an ID either at the local driver's license office.

Wrong. You apply for Obamacare online and all you need is your social.

and what do you have to have in order to get a social moron?

BTW you have to have a ID when you use your health ins.   

my mother would have been 85 last year had she lived. she was born at HOME to POOR dirt farmers. she had a birth certificate.

so please show me where you do not have to register a live birth?


My recommendation to you is to crawl out from the rock you live under please! Whatever the circumstance(s) apply to your mother do not apply to everyone, is that too difficult for you to comprehend?

knothead wrote:

Joanimaroni wrote:

QueenOfHearts wrote:

Joanimaroni wrote:

knothead wrote:How do these very poor people get through other avenues that require a photo ID?

joani, in regards to your above post you are comparing apples with oranges or at least in my mind.  "Other avenues" to use your description are not necessarily guaranteed in the Constitution while voting is in fact a right derived from it.  Laws passed in predominantly red states imposing these requirements are telling in what they deem as totally reasonable but the unspoken motive is plain as day . . . . to deny or restrict many in our nation their right to cast a vote.

I'm not making a comparison at all. I asked a logical question.

That's what I'm trying to do.  I just never hear anything about photo ID except in regards to voting issues.

Sal:  I recently became a relative's guardian.  I have had to apply for all types of services on his behalf.  There has not been one single thing I have been able to do for him without his personal identification (and of course, the guardianship papers).  Edited to add:  Of course, I never said, "No, he does not have identification."  Maybe the various agencies would have done something to accommodate his lack of identification.

Oops.....a stumbling block in their justification.  

I can not withdraw cash from my bank without a photo ID and signature, which happens to be a good thing. On a side note...Considering credit card theft and identity theft.....I think credit cards use should require a pin number or at least a photo ID.

This is not an Oops moment at all joani.  The so-called justification of implementing Voter ID requirements is alleged fraudulent voting but that has been documented to be a non-issue since only 4 or 5 incidents have been identified out of 4 million votes cast.  It is clearly a roadblock or a pathway to disenfranchise citizens' right to vote and it is perplexing why fair-minded people do not conclude the same.  I understand the simplification of the topic by posing rhetorical questions but the larger issue is the impediment and burden placed on some our most under represented people that are citizens just like you or I, they are the forgotten here.

Queen's post, regarding her experience with her realative, was a contradiction to what has been posted about having to provide a photo ID..... Hence the Oops comment.

I still don't understand, in this day and age when a photo ID is necessary for so many transactions and services, why do you think it is so difficult for people to obtain one?

If people are so repressed that they are unable to get out an obtain an ID how the hell do they get out and vote? It is not difficult to obtain a photo ID....after all they have 4 years to save up funds and secure transportation to a DMV or another agency that would provide the ID. Certainly all these repressed individuals are not house bound or invalids. Let's skip all the excuses......Where there is a will there is a way.

Applying for a Florida ID Card

The Florida Department of Highway Safety & Motor Vehicles (DHSMV) requires you to apply for your Florida REAL ID card in person.

To do so, make an appointment online using the DHSMV's OASIS online service before visiting a nearby driver license office and provide:

Proof of identity (1 document). Examples are:
A valid, unexpired U.S. passport.
Original or certified copy of a birth certificate.
Certificate of Naturalization issued by the DHSMV.
For non-U.S. citizens, please see “Non-U.S. Citizen FL ID Requirements” below.
Social Security card.
If you do not have a Social Security number, the DHSMV requires that you bring a letter from the Social Security Administration indicating you were never issued one, plus 1 additional proof of ID.
Proof of FL residency (2 documents). Examples are:
Deed, mortgage, or rental/lease agreement.
Florida voter registration card.
W-2 form or 1099 form.
Payment for your FL ID card fee:
Original ID card: $25.
ID card renewal: $25.
Duplicate ID card: $25.
Address change: $25.

The DHSMV’s GatherGoGet page has a list of all acceptable documentation.
Non-U.S. Citizen FL ID Requirements

You must provide 1 document (original or certified copy) to establish your identity, in addition to all other documents listed above for U.S. citizens. However, your identity document may be different, as you will not be able to provide a U.S. birth certificate or passport.

A few examples of acceptable documents for non-U.S. citizens include:

A valid, unexpired Permanent Resident Card – I-551 for Lawful Permanent Residents.
A valid passport for non-immigrants (excluding asylum applicants and refugees).
Department of Homeland Security document (showing proof of lawful presence).

The DHSMV provides a complete list of acceptable primary identification documents, or you can visit the GatherGoGet website to create your own customized list of documents.

http://www.dmv.org/fl-florida/id-cards.php

knothead wrote:my mother would have been 85 last year had she lived. she was born at HOME to POOR dirt farmers. she had a birth certificate.

so please show me where you do not have to register a live birth?


My recommendation to you is to crawl out from the rock you live under please!  Whatever the circumstance(s) apply to your mother do not apply to everyone, is that too difficult for you to comprehend?

I don't live under a rock. You dumbass people must though. To think to even try to use that these poor people cant get a freaking ID, when you MUST have a ID to function in this country is un fucking believable.

You guys re flat OUT LYING and YOU KNOW it!

You are running with the party line and you cant defend it its so god damn ridiculous.