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Pensacola Discussion Forum » Politics » Russia drafting 150,000 conscripts for Syria

Russia drafting 150,000 conscripts for Syria

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Wordslinger
Sal
TEOTWAWKI
EmeraldGhost
Hospital Bob
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Guest


Guest

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3255876/Russia-pouring-gasoline-fire-Syria-s-civil-war-says-America-Putin-defies-West-drops-bombs-non-ISIS-forces-fighting-Assad.html

Guest


Guest

Looks like Seaoat totally missed the boat on his Syria call.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

This is all really good news,  obamasucks.  Putin is turning out to be another George W. Bush.  
I imagine he has a bunch of rooskie "neocon" advisors telling him to go to war first and ask questions later like Bush did.
He and his rooskie "neocons" are gonna learn the hard way what Dick Cheney told us all in 1991..

I think for us to get American military personnel involved in a civil war inside Iraq would literally be a quagmire.
Once we got to Baghdad, what would we do? Who would we put in power? What kind of government would we have? Would it be a Sunni government, a Shi’a government, a Kurdish government? Would it be secular, along the lines of the Ba’ath Party?
Would it be fundamentalist Islamic? I do not think the United States wants to have U.S. military forces accept casualties and accept the responsibility of trying to govern Iraq. I think it makes no sense at all.


Just replace "Iraq" with "Syria" and what you see is a carbon copy of Bush.
Putin will now put his country into the same never-ending clusterfuck in the middle east as Bush put ours in.  If our government (democrats or republicans) had any fucking sense they'd stand down and let him do it. It will probably lead to some kind of "9/11" directed at Moscow.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

About what you posted in that other thread this morning,  obamasucks...

until the end time when the AntiChrist gets a deal made for peace and then goes back on his word starting Armageddon. When you see Israel make that deal, and Revelations says it will happen, best to get right with God because he will be here soon  

But see here's the deal,  obamasucks.  If all that is coming from "God",  then IT WILL happen.  Because "God" already knows it will happen and he's told you that.
It won't matter who in the hell is president or if democrats or republicans are in power and it won't matter who you vote for,  who you oppose,  or who you support.  It will happen regardless because God tells you it will happen.  You can't change a future that God has already seen.
It's a done deal so quit fretting about it.  Get you a cold beer this afternoon and go sit in your garden like I'll do and enjoy this beautiful weather God is giving us for the next few days.  It's "heavenly".

EmeraldGhost

EmeraldGhost

Bob wrote:This is all really good news,  obamasucks.  Putin is turning out to be another George W. Bush.  
I imagine he has a bunch of rooskie "neocon" advisors telling him to go to war first and ask questions later like Bush did.
He and his rooskie "neocons" are gonna learn the hard way what Dick Cheney told us all in 1991..
 

I doubt that. Putin's goal is to stand the Assad regime back up ... which is very do-able. He won't be going into northern Iraq. He's counting on the Iranians to take care of that, although he may provide some air support from Syrian bases. First & foremost, though, he's gonna get Syria under control & firmly back in the hands of Assad.

Russia has supported the Assad regimes (both current and his father before him) for a very long time.

If you want to understand Putin ... you have to understand Russian pride/nationalism. He's a Russia-First kinda guy. Russia is no stranger to war, invasion, and unrest. Due to that history, political chaos in the world is anathema to them. They want order ... and they don't care if it takes some tin-pot dictator like Assad to impose & maintain it in Syria ... and you can bet there'll be no Russian soldiers put on trial back home for "war-crimes" when it's done.





Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

EmeraldGhost wrote:
Bob wrote:This is all really good news,  obamasucks.  Putin is turning out to be another George W. Bush.  
I imagine he has a bunch of rooskie "neocon" advisors telling him to go to war first and ask questions later like Bush did.
He and his rooskie "neocons" are gonna learn the hard way what Dick Cheney told us all in 1991..
 

I doubt that.  Putin's goal is to stand the Assad regime back up ... which is very do-able.   He won't be going into northern Iraq.  He's counting on the Iranians to take care of that, although he may provide some air support from Syrian bases.   First & foremost, though, he's gonna get Syria under control & firmly back in the hands of Assad.

Isn't that what Bush did?  He "stood up" a shia regime in Iraq same as Putin wants to do in Syria.  
Yes,  the Assad regime claims to be secular,  but does that even matter because he derives his power by being so in bed with the shia (Alawites) who make up a large part of his Syrian army.

Bush was convinced Iraq would be the end of it too.  He didn't intend to go into the bordering country.  But of course that's exactly what happened  because the sunni rebellion took us there too.
Just as it will not roll over for Putin or any other "foreign infidel".  

I say let Russia play the part of the sucker in this game for a change.  Because it will be in for a long drawn out clusterfuck same as us.  





EmeraldGhost

EmeraldGhost

Bob wrote:
EmeraldGhost wrote:
Bob wrote:This is all really good news,  obamasucks.  Putin is turning out to be another George W. Bush.  
I imagine he has a bunch of rooskie "neocon" advisors telling him to go to war first and ask questions later like Bush did.
He and his rooskie "neocons" are gonna learn the hard way what Dick Cheney told us all in 1991..
 

I doubt that.  Putin's goal is to stand the Assad regime back up ... which is very do-able.   He won't be going into northern Iraq.  He's counting on the Iranians to take care of that, although he may provide some air support from Syrian bases.   First & foremost, though, he's gonna get Syria under control & firmly back in the hands of Assad.

Isn't that what Bush did?  He "stood up" a shia regime in Iraq same as Putin wants to do in Syria.  
Yes,  the Assad regime claims to be secular,  but does that even matter because he derives his power by being so in bed with the shia (Alawites) who make up a large part of his Syrian army.

Bush was convinced Iraq would be the end of it too.  He didn't intend to go into the bordering country.  But of course that's exactly what happened  because the sunni rebellion took us there too.
Just as it will not roll over for Putin or any other "foreign infidel".  

I say let Russia play the part of the sucker in this game for a change.  Because it will be in for a long drawn out clusterfuck same as us.  

With Russia's help ... Assad will crush the opposition.   And they'll be a lot more brutal about it than we would.   I'd say it'll take a matter of weeks, maybe a month or three.   No longer than that.  Unlike the USA ... they'll kill whoever they think they need to & not worry about the niceties of it.

And ... as I said previously ... they won't go into northern/western Iraq. They'll leave that job to the Iranians.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

EmeraldGhost wrote:

With Russia's help ... Assad will crush the opposition.   And they'll be a lot more brutal about it than we would.   I'd say it'll take a matter of weeks, maybe a month or three.   No longer than that.

When it comes to "brutality", the sunni (ISIS) are certainly no pushovers either. Their MO is about like that of Vlad the Impaler.
And they never give up.

I'd say it'll take a matter of weeks, maybe a month or three. No longer than that.

Eerily reminiscent of this...

"Five days or five weeks or five months, but it certainly isn't going to last any longer than that,"

That was Donald Rumsfeld speaking on the eve of the Iraq invasion. lol

EmeraldGhost

EmeraldGhost

ISIS could not stand up to a full scale military onslaught in Syria .... by either the USA or the Russians.

They've only faced the Syrian military (which has been also beleaguered by various other militias, some propped up by the USA) and the pretty much non-existent Iraqi military & a few weak militias in Iraq.

Syria's not as big as Iraq either.

Russia has a simple & clear goal here ... crush the opposition to Assad in Syria (be they ISIS or anyone else) & put him back firmly in control of the country.



Last edited by EmeraldGhost on 10/1/2015, 12:23 pm; edited 1 time in total

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

What should really be the focus of all this is,  what leads to more terrorism directed at the United States?

One school of thought says if you poke a big enough stick into the hornet's nest,  the hornets will go away.

The other says if you stop poking a stick into the hornet's nest and leave the hornets alone,  they will stop stinging you.

My school of thought is a variation of the second one.  I think if we stop sticking our stick in the hornet's nest,  and let Putin stick his in it instead, the terrorists will then be motivated to sting him and not us.
At least that's how human nature usually works.



Last edited by Bob on 10/1/2015, 12:27 pm; edited 1 time in total

EmeraldGhost

EmeraldGhost

The difference in the USA in Iraq & Russia in Syria is that we were tearing down a government & trying to engage in nation-building, while Russia is supporting/protecting an existing government with an existing leader that has been in power for many decades.

It's not the same thing.

The Russians have no special love for Muslims anyway. See "Chechnya"

Guest


Guest

How long did it take our military to reach baghdad the first time? I doubt it takes much longer. A real effort is formidable.

Those moderate rebels don't even have uniforms or name tags. Really... what chance do they have? Just lay down and die.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

What is a threat to us here is not any raghead "army" of any middle east country any more than the same poses a threat to Russia.  

Bin Laden and Sheik Muhammed fully understood that.  That's why they chose a different strategy than fighting us with an army.  And it was a successful strategy which fundamentally changed our country and probably forever.

Does anyone really believe that all ended with those two?  That all Obama or Putin either one has to do is "win" against a mideast army and that puts an end to it?

Those fanatics are not doing "9/11's" on Switzerland for a reason.  It's because Switzerland is not in the middle east with it's armies and it's occupations and it's propping up dictators and all the rest.



Last edited by Bob on 10/1/2015, 12:47 pm; edited 1 time in total

TEOTWAWKI

TEOTWAWKI

So Putin is killing the same group Al-Qæda-al-Nusra- ISIS- ISIL etc.....that knocked down the twin towers...good job Putin...

Sal

Sal

PkrBum wrote:How long did it take our military to reach baghdad the first time? I doubt it takes much longer.

And, then what happened?

I believe Russia had some experience with this sort of thing in Afghanistan some years ago.

I think I remember some fella named Bin Laden being involved.

The Russian people will not be down for a full scale invasion and occupation.

Guest


Guest

Bob wrote:
EmeraldGhost wrote:
Bob wrote:This is all really good news,  obamasucks.  Putin is turning out to be another George W. Bush.  
I imagine he has a bunch of rooskie "neocon" advisors telling him to go to war first and ask questions later like Bush did.
He and his rooskie "neocons" are gonna learn the hard way what Dick Cheney told us all in 1991..
 

I doubt that.  Putin's goal is to stand the Assad regime back up ... which is very do-able.   He won't be going into northern Iraq.  He's counting on the Iranians to take care of that, although he may provide some air support from Syrian bases.   First & foremost, though, he's gonna get Syria under control & firmly back in the hands of Assad.

Isn't that what Bush did?  He "stood up" a shia regime in Iraq same as Putin wants to do in Syria.  
Yes,  the Assad regime claims to be secular,  but does that even matter because he derives his power by being so in bed with the shia (Alawites) who make up a large part of his Syrian army.

Bush was convinced Iraq would be the end of it too.  He didn't intend to go into the bordering country.  But of course that's exactly what happened  because the sunni rebellion took us there too.
Just as it will not roll over for Putin or any other "foreign infidel".  

I say let Russia play the part of the sucker in this game for a change.  Because it will be in for a long drawn out clusterfuck same as us.  



You aren't getting what he said. We went into Iraq with a light footprint of people based on Rumsfeld's game plan. Russia won't do that. They will kill and force people to accept Assad as leader knowing that if they oppose, a dirt nap is coming- either from Assad or the Russians and the Russians will stay for as long as it takes.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Salinsky wrote:
PkrBum wrote:How long did it take our military to reach baghdad the first time? I doubt it takes much longer.

And, then what happened?

I believe Russia had some experience with this sort of thing in Afghanistan some years ago.

I think I remember some fella named Bin Laden being involved.

The Russian people will not be down for a full scale invasion and occupation.

The russian leaders haven't learned their lesson from Afghanistan anymore than our leaders learned anything from Vietnam.

But whether or not the Russian people will go along with it depends on how many obamasucks live in Russia. Because those types never learn from anything. And right now they give Putin an 89% approval rating.




Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Look, our government is going to get drawn into this regardless of any lessons to be learned. Because that's what superpowers do. They use their super powers.

That fact of life aint gonna change because obama is the current figurehead.
If obama backs down then the next one won't. But since this has turned into a contest of masculinity between Obama and Putin, I'm predicting the pressure on him will be too great. After being painted as the 98 lb weakling long enough, he'll go with the flow.

EmeraldGhost

EmeraldGhost

Standing the Assad regime back up will reap geopolitical benefits for Russia far into the future.  

It will demonstrate to many other small countries/governments/regimes that if you are a friend/ally of Russia they will come in & back you up if things get desperate. (unlike the experiences of some countries with the USA in recent years)

Putin is determined to do this.  Syria has defined borders, an existing government, a strong-man leader, a military, and it's not a huge country.  I seriously doubt he will be attempting to resolve the chaos in Iraq .... he'll leave that to the Iranians (who he will also play like a fiddle.)

As a news article I saw recently said ... Putin's playng chess, while we're playing poker.   In any case, the game is on ... hopefully Americans will be smart enough to elect a next President who understands that.

Wordslinger

Wordslinger

EmeraldGhost wrote:
Bob wrote:This is all really good news,  obamasucks.  Putin is turning out to be another George W. Bush.  
I imagine he has a bunch of rooskie "neocon" advisors telling him to go to war first and ask questions later like Bush did.
He and his rooskie "neocons" are gonna learn the hard way what Dick Cheney told us all in 1991..
 

I doubt that.  Putin's goal is to stand the Assad regime back up ... which is very do-able.   He won't be going into northern Iraq.  He's counting on the Iranians to take care of that, although he may provide some air support from Syrian bases.   First & foremost, though, he's gonna get Syria under control & firmly back in the hands of Assad.

Russia has supported the Assad regimes (both current and his father before him) for a very long time.  

If you want to understand Putin ... you have to understand Russian pride/nationalism.  He's a Russia-First kinda guy.  Russia is no stranger to war, invasion, and unrest. Due to that history, political chaos in the world is anathema to them. They want order ... and they don't care if it takes some tin-pot dictator like Assad to impose & maintain it in Syria ... and you can bet there'll be no Russian soldiers put on trial back home for "war-crimes" when it's done.






Dear EmeraldGhost: You are right on target, kudos! A very good analysis, and the video is superb. Roads to Moscow is my alltime favorite folk song from the 80s. The music and lyrics are superb and describe the Russian character better than anything else I've been exposed to. The video you present is stupendous. Thanks very much for linking it here.

2seaoat



The remarkable thing is that it took Putin two years to act. This client state of the Soviet Union would have seen Russian troops a week after Putin intercepted with certainty who was backing the insurgents in Syria. He knew it was us, Israel, and Saudi Arabia. The United States had as a primary foreign policy goal for forty years the overthrow and weakening of Syria. Sadly, Israel achieved their goal and much like Lebanon 20 years earlier, it was civilians which bore the brunt of the blow back. Pace, this is not a conflict at this point. With the Iranian deal, the United States leadership has reached their limit fighting Israel and Saudi Arabia's battles, and President Obama has pretty much said enough. The Syrian dictatorship will be restored, the nation state decimated, but we are done with these costly games. America is getting out of the Middle East.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

EmeraldGhost wrote:Standing the Assad regime back up will reap geopolitical benefits for Russia far into the future.  

It will demonstrate to many other small countries/governments/regimes that if you are a friend/ally of Russia they will come in & back you up if things get desperate. (unlike the experiences of some countries with the USA in recent years)

Putin is determined to do this.  Syria has defined borders, an existing government, a strong-man leader, a military, and it's not a huge country.  I seriously doubt he will be attempting to resolve the chaos in Iraq .... he'll leave that to the Iranians (who he will also play like a fiddle.)


So Emerald Ghost (and Wordslinger now too),  you're saying the result will be that ISIS/Al Qaeda/Taliban and whatever other groups of sunni fanatics over there are just going to send all their suicide bombers home and give up the fight?  And there won't be anymore of this after Putin flexes his muscles...

https://www.google.com/search?q=terrorist+attack+on+moscow&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8#q=terrorist+attack+on+russia

EmeraldGhost

EmeraldGhost

Wordslinger wrote: ... Roads to Moscow is my alltime favorite folk song from the 80s.  The music and lyrics are superb and describe the Russian character better than anything else I've been exposed to.  The video you present is stupendous.  Thanks very much for linking it here.[/b]

Yeah, I used to be a huge Al Stewart fan. I'm also an avid lifelong student of history.

(I don't wear this on my sleeve, but I was also once-upon-a-time a John Denver fan if you can imagine that. I imagine I could still play most of his songs without a cheat sheet. I even volunteered for the Carter campaign once-upon-a-time. I don't wear that on my sleeve either. Embarassed )

EmeraldGhost

EmeraldGhost

Bob wrote:

So Emerald Ghost (and Wordslinger now too),  you're saying the result will be that ISIS/Al Qaeda/Taliban and whatever other groups of sunni fanatics over there are just going to send all their suicide bombers home and give up the fight?  And there won't be anymore of this after Putin flexes his muscles...

All I'm saying is Russia is going to help the Assad regime retake control of their country. It's a simple, clear, objective. They're not going to try & solve all the problems of the middle east with this.

And they'll be as brutal about it as necessary .... I know one thing, you can bet there won't be any CNN cameras embedded with Russian or Syrian troops.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Whatever happens here,  it won't be Putin or Obama or Bubba Bush or Hillary or Trump or any other "superpower" leader who goes down with it because they'll all be calling the shots safely from an underground bunker.

The only victims of this will be all the dead peons, military and civilian,  who end up face down on their "chessboard" or "poker table" or whatever it is somebody called it in another post.

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