Can anybody help me in this debate with teo.

Ghost_Rider1 wrote:

Floridatexan wrote:
You know what, Ghost. You just said a mouthful. It IS the small things that bother me, the little kickback here; the little accounting gimmick there, the little insider trading phone call, the little lie, and the little shifting of the burden of responsibility. They all add up to a very frightening picture of the state of humanity today...we keep hearing about the "new normal". We need to return to the "old normal", and I mean that in the sense that we need to cultivate our own sense of morality and ethics. Of course, it's a clear violation of the Hippocratic Oath to leave a person dying on the steps of a hospital because he can't pay the bill. It's also a violation to keep a person stabilized on life support when all signs of life are gone. Every profession has its ethical guidelines, which seem to have gone the way of the dodo. But, in addition to professional guidelines, one might hope that each individual has a PERSONAL set of morals and ethics. I'm so sick of liars, and in particular I'm sick of people who hide behind religion while they actively participate in the antithesis of spiritual awareness and call it religion.

I think you may have misinterpreted what I posted. I was speaking of nothing more that the post of youtube videos as being a nuisance and little things such as that. The other things that you mentioned I know are not small. Those are some real issues facing society today, but posting of a video link as annoying, now come on, it ain't all that bad.

Thanks Eric, that is exactly what I was talking about.

Floridatexan wrote:
OK...I'm probably a little wound up lately. I'm not really misinterpreting you so much as trying to say what bothers me about this particular poster...and what I want to call it is "obtuse".

Yomama wrote:Bob, I wasn't referring to you. What I was referring to was the people that feel patients really needing hospital care should be thrown down the steps of the establishment if they can't afford treatment.

I don't like subsidizing the indigent health care... I doubt if anybody does. I don't like seeing indigents with a head cold or a mild case of the flu going to the Emergency Room. Trauma or life-or-death... yes. The system is gamed and that Emergency Room crap should stop.

------------------------

Dreams, there are charities and churches that will, on a case by case basis, help families in need. Hell, there are charity hospitals like St. Jude that, according to their mission statement "... and no family ever pays St. Jude for anything". (Notice that I never said that charities or churches will pay for health care... as in their complete medical insurance.)

Yomama wrote:Bob, I wasn't referring to you. What I was referring to was the people that feel patients really needing hospital care should be thrown down the steps of the establishment if they can't afford treatment.

I don't like subsidizing the indigent health care... I doubt if anybody does. I don't like seeing indigents with a head cold or a mild case of the flu going to the Emergency Room. Trauma or life-or-death... yes. The system is gamed and that Emergency Room crap should stop.

------------------------

Dreams, there are charities and churches that will, on a case by case basis, help families in need. Hell, there are charity hospitals like St. Jude that, according to their mission statement "... and no family ever pays St. Jude for anything". (Notice that I never said that charities or churches will pay for health care... as in their complete medical insurance.)

Yomama wrote:FT, my point is - that there is something wrong when the cost of subsidizing a head cold $1,000 ER visit could be a subsidized $100 doctor's visit. Don't ask me how to fix it... I don't claim to be smart enough for that.

Bob wrote:

Damaged Eagle wrote:

People die because they can't pay for advanced medical treatments everyday. If the government is going to step in on the behalf of one person are they also going to step in on the behalf of all people? If so then the government should have absolute control of all health care and none of this dickering around and forcing people to purchase health care insurance from a private company (which I consider unConstitutional).

30,000+ people die in car wrecks ever year. But that doesn't mean the only wise course of action is to either ban cars alltogether or mandate that they all be made as safe as sitting in a recliner inside one's living room.
Either is just an extremist response.

Bob wrote:That's the problem with the political divide we're now experiencing. It's mostly turned into just extremists on one side or the other blowing hard.
That's because the audience for it is similiar to the audience for pro wrestling.

Dreamsglore wrote:Why shouldn't people have to pay for a service they use? Why should we have to pay for someone else's healthcare?

Dreamsglore wrote:I think I read his response correctly. He said he doesn't believe you should be forced to pay for private insurance.

Floridatexan wrote:

Damaged Eagle wrote:

Bob wrote:
I appreciate that and your familiarity with it. But now there is no University Hospital. All the trauma care is done by the private hospitals.
SO, if EMTALA was rescinded now and we followed yours (and others') philosophy to a T (no pun intended), there would be examples of people dying only because they couldn't pay for their medical treatment themselves.

Again I ask the question. Would your deity be okay with that?

Why should God be concerned with abstract human constructs?

*****CHUCKLE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ky1nY3jlq1M

Can you say anything at all without having to rely on YouTube? It's beyond annoying.

Dreamsglore wrote:

Bob wrote:

Dreamsglore wrote:My posts are not posting. I hate this internet connection.

I hope you can get it worked out. I'm looking forward to reading your reply to what I said to you. lol

What I'm saying is we all use healthcare.Many people don't pay for it. The one's that can't shouldn't have to die because of it.The one's who don't want to should.Do you think we should let a child die because their family is poor? What the hell kind of people would we be. It's ironic because the one's who rant about abortion are the one's who don't want to pay for healthcare.What's up w/ that? Either you believe people have a right to live or you don't.What good is bringing a poor child into this world who will not be taken care of and left to die if their sick?

thread_bear wrote:

Ghost_Rider1 wrote:

Floridatexan wrote:
Can you say anything at all without having to rely on YouTube? It's beyond annoying.

Just because he posts a ouTube link does not mean that you must watch it. I no longer go to any YouTube links that anyone posts because I have found that they are for the most part are not relevant to the discussion. So I just ignore them and it is not annoying whatsoever. It would appear that you allow small things bother you.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

DE is definitely a small annoying thing. his smug condescension aside, he has no clue what a real neo-con is, and why they should be resisted on damned near everything.

like you stated, i have never clicked on his insipid youtube links.

besides, who takes an Iowa farmer serious these days....?

does he post while he's plowing...?

what an arrogant poser, from his avatar to his rhetoric.....he's a chucklehead.

Yomama wrote:FT, my point is - that there is something wrong when the cost of subsidizing a head cold $1,000 ER visit could be a subsidized $100 doctor's visit. Don't ask me how to fix it... I don't claim to be smart enough for that.

Ghost_Rider1 wrote:

TEOTWAWKI wrote:

Bob wrote:

TEOTWAWKI wrote:



Don't bring god into this.

When one guides his life and his moral and ethical decisions by what God would want, I would expect one to want to bring God into this as much as anything else. It's life and death like the question of abortion. I can't really understand why not.

Okay you want to bring God into it. Well here's my opinion on that ! Any fool that calls themselves a Christian and is afraid to die is an insult to god. He is a coward and an unbeliever. He deserves the bowels of hell for eternity for his cowardice. Dying for a Christian is returning to be with god forever..Heavenly bliss..etc. So there chew on that ...

Teo why is it only you so called Christians that should not be afraid to die? As I am an atheist I have no fear whatsoever of death. If your god is so much of an omniscient, all knowing god, then why aren't all this problems resolved? If he can design and build the universe in 7 days, it would appear that medical care would not be a problem for those that cannot afford it. So why is that? It is really very simple, because there is no god.

Bob wrote:

TEOTWAWKI wrote:What's great about this is you dummys are begging the government to take more of your money..Begging !..are you crazy ?...THINK.

I've noticed one thing about the political dialogue in this country. Whenever one is losing a debate he always resorts to stuff like calling people "dummys".
It applies equally to both the government haters and the government lovers.

lol

Damaged Eagle wrote:

Dreamsglore wrote:

Bob wrote:

Dreamsglore wrote:My posts are not posting. I hate this internet connection.

I hope you can get it worked out. I'm looking forward to reading your reply to what I said to you. lol

What I'm saying is we all use healthcare.Many people don't pay for it. The one's that can't shouldn't have to die because of it.The one's who don't want to should.Do you think we should let a child die because their family is poor? What the hell kind of people would we be. It's ironic because the one's who rant about abortion are the one's who don't want to pay for healthcare.What's up w/ that? Either you believe people have a right to live or you don't.What good is bringing a poor child into this world who will not be taken care of and left to die if their sick?

So that's a yes to the government nationalizing and having total control over the health care industry.

*****SMILE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tna0Mmu1XlI

Damaged Eagle wrote:

Dreamsglore wrote:Why shouldn't people have to pay for a service they use? Why should we have to pay for someone else's healthcare?

RESPONSE TO QUESTION #1

You can prove that all the people you're talking about who use this service don't pay for their health care even if they don't carry a health insurance policy?

RESPONSE TO QUESTION #2

In what way are you paying for someone else's healthcare?

*****SMILE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQzUCO7rG0M

Dreamsglore wrote:

Damaged Eagle wrote:

Dreamsglore wrote:

Bob wrote:

Dreamsglore wrote:My posts are not posting. I hate this internet connection.

I hope you can get it worked out. I'm looking forward to reading your reply to what I said to you. lol

What I'm saying is we all use healthcare.Many people don't pay for it. The one's that can't shouldn't have to die because of it.The one's who don't want to should.Do you think we should let a child die because their family is poor? What the hell kind of people would we be. It's ironic because the one's who rant about abortion are the one's who don't want to pay for healthcare.What's up w/ that? Either you believe people have a right to live or you don't.What good is bringing a poor child into this world who will not be taken care of and left to die if their sick?

So that's a yes to the government nationalizing and having total control over the health care industry.

*****SMILE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tna0Mmu1XlI

I don't know where you got that from my post but I do think it's a right to have healthcare.Just like voting or free speech. We are a humane society who have a responsibility to care for those who cannot care for themselves.

Dreamsglore wrote:

Damaged Eagle wrote:

Dreamsglore wrote:Why shouldn't people have to pay for a service they use? Why should we have to pay for someone else's healthcare?

RESPONSE TO QUESTION #1

You can prove that all the people you're talking about who use this service don't pay for their health care even if they don't carry a health insurance policy?

RESPONSE TO QUESTION #2

In what way are you paying for someone else's healthcare?

*****SMILE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQzUCO7rG0M

Nobody said "all" people don't pay. You are twisting words. Most people who don't have insurance don't pay when they get sick.Everyone at some time in their life uses healthcare.An insurance policy is simply that in the event you get sick just life car insurance,life insurance, homeowner's etc.
I can't believe you asked the question in "what way are you paying for someone else's healthcare?" Who do you think pays when someone needs healthcare and they have no insurance or money? I mean -come on! We all have to pay.

Damaged Eagle wrote:

Dreamsglore wrote:

Damaged Eagle wrote:

Dreamsglore wrote:Why shouldn't people have to pay for a service they use? Why should we have to pay for someone else's healthcare?

RESPONSE TO QUESTION #1

You can prove that all the people you're talking about who use this service don't pay for their health care even if they don't carry a health insurance policy?

RESPONSE TO QUESTION #2

In what way are you paying for someone else's healthcare?

*****SMILE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQzUCO7rG0M

Nobody said "all" people don't pay. You are twisting words. Most people who don't have insurance don't pay when they get sick.Everyone at some time in their life uses healthcare.An insurance policy is simply that in the event you get sick just life car insurance,life insurance, homeowner's etc.
I can't believe you asked the question in "what way are you paying for someone else's healthcare?" Who do you think pays when someone needs healthcare and they have no insurance or money? I mean -come on! We all have to pay.

You're statement implied that all people who don't have health insurance are unable to pay. So now you're saying that there are people who do not require health insurance because they can cover their own health care needs but you're going to FORCE them to purchase health care just because they happen to be breathing.

So what you're saying is that the government is going to pay for the person who doesn't have the cash for healthcare anyway. Therefore the health care industry should be nationalized and controlled by the government.

*****SMILE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tna0Mmu1XlI

Dreamsglore wrote:

Damaged Eagle wrote:

Dreamsglore wrote:

Damaged Eagle wrote:

Dreamsglore wrote:Why shouldn't people have to pay for a service they use? Why should we have to pay for someone else's healthcare?

RESPONSE TO QUESTION #1

You can prove that all the people you're talking about who use this service don't pay for their health care even if they don't carry a health insurance policy?

RESPONSE TO QUESTION #2

In what way are you paying for someone else's healthcare?

*****SMILE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQzUCO7rG0M

Nobody said "all" people don't pay. You are twisting words. Most people who don't have insurance don't pay when they get sick.Everyone at some time in their life uses healthcare.An insurance policy is simply that in the event you get sick just life car insurance,life insurance, homeowner's etc.
I can't believe you asked the question in "what way are you paying for someone else's healthcare?" Who do you think pays when someone needs healthcare and they have no insurance or money? I mean -come on! We all have to pay.

You're statement implied that all people who don't have health insurance are unable to pay. So now you're saying that there are people who do not require health insurance because they can cover their own health care needs but you're going to FORCE them to purchase health care just because they happen to be breathing.

So what you're saying is that the government is going to pay for the person who doesn't have the cash for healthcare anyway. Therefore the health care industry should be nationalized and controlled by the government.

*****SMILE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tna0Mmu1XlI

Yes, we all should have healthcare and the one's who don't want to pay for it must be forced to pay.End of story.

Dreamsglore wrote:

Damaged Eagle wrote:

Dreamsglore wrote:

Damaged Eagle wrote:

Dreamsglore wrote:Why shouldn't people have to pay for a service they use? Why should we have to pay for someone else's healthcare?

RESPONSE TO QUESTION #1

You can prove that all the people you're talking about who use this service don't pay for their health care even if they don't carry a health insurance policy?

RESPONSE TO QUESTION #2

In what way are you paying for someone else's healthcare?

*****SMILE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQzUCO7rG0M

Nobody said "all" people don't pay. You are twisting words. Most people who don't have insurance don't pay when they get sick.Everyone at some time in their life uses healthcare.An insurance policy is simply that in the event you get sick just life car insurance,life insurance, homeowner's etc.
I can't believe you asked the question in "what way are you paying for someone else's healthcare?" Who do you think pays when someone needs healthcare and they have no insurance or money? I mean -come on! We all have to pay.

You're statement implied that all people who don't have health insurance are unable to pay. So now you're saying that there are people who do not require health insurance because they can cover their own health care needs but you're going to FORCE them to purchase health care just because they happen to be breathing.

So what you're saying is that the government is going to pay for the person who doesn't have the cash for healthcare anyway. Therefore the health care industry should be nationalized and controlled by the government.

*****SMILE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tna0Mmu1XlI

Yes, we all should have healthcare and the one's who don't want to pay for it must be forced to pay.End of story.

Damaged Eagle wrote:

My own stance remains the same

SmugBastard(akaBob) wrote:

Damaged Eagle wrote:

My own stance remains the same

We get that, dirt-dobber. Your stance which you keep stancing like a broken record is that "it's not in the constitution" and "either you nationalize the whole health care system or you let people die in the emergency room parking lot because there can be nothing in between".
We've got it, sonny. You can repeat it until your Iowa cows come home and we still get it. But just to make sure that we do...

It's not in the constitution

either you nationalize the whole health care system or you let people die in the emergency room parking lot because there can be nothing in between

...ETC...