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Pensacola Discussion Forum » General Discussion » Can anybody help me in this debate with teo.

Can anybody help me in this debate with teo.

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Guest

TEOTWAWKI wrote:
Bob wrote:
TEOTWAWKI wrote:



Don't bring god into this.
When one guides his life and his moral and ethical decisions by what God would want, I would expect one to want to bring God into this as much as anything else. It's life and death like the question of abortion. I can't really understand why not.

Okay you want to bring God into it. Well here's my opinion on that ! Any fool that calls themselves a Christian and is afraid to die is an insult to god. He is a coward and an unbeliever. He deserves the bowels of hell for eternity for his cowardice. Dying for a Christian is returning to be with god forever..Heavenly bliss..etc. So there chew on that ...


Teo why is it only you so called Christians that should not be afraid to die? As I am an atheist I have no fear whatsoever of death. If your god is so much of an omniscient, all knowing god, then why aren't all this problems resolved? If he can design and build the universe in 7 days, it would appear that medical care would not be a problem for those that cannot afford it. So why is that? It is really very simple, because there is no god.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Dreamsglore wrote:
I think I read his response correctly. He said he doesn't believe you should be forced to pay for private insurance.

Oh he absolutely did say that. But you asked him "why shouldn't people have to pay for a service they use?"
I think his response to that question would be that people who can not pay for a service themselves should not expect to have or to be able to use that service. Making your question a moot point.

And then you asked him the question "why should we have to pay for someone else's health care?"
I think his response to that question would be "I don't think we should have to pay for someone else's health care so why are you asking me that?"

But if I am trying to speak for him and doing it incorrectly I hope he'll come along and correct me.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Actually, dreamsglore, you just said something that is one of the most ironic things I've ever read. And I don't mean just applied to health care but it was so ironic that you just pretty much stated one of the fundamental beliefs of the whole republican conservative point of view.

You did it when you asked "why shouldn't people have to pay for a service they use?"

That is exactly the question the republicans/conservatives are asking when they ask why people in the lower income brackets should expect to receive the government services they're receiving when many of them now contribute nothing in income taxes to help pay for that.

It appears that with one sentence you just completely switched your philosophy to the other side. lol

Guest


Guest

If you or a cherished loved one is dying at the steps of a hospital and you couldn't afford treatment, I doubt that you would be sitting on a sanctimonious "high horse" and agree with the hospital that you should die.

Teo said churches and charities can help, but they're not always available when a sudden life or death situation arises.

Guest


Guest

Bob wrote:
Dreamsglore wrote:
I think I read his response correctly. He said he doesn't believe you should be forced to pay for private insurance.

Oh he absolutely did say that. But you asked him "why shouldn't people have to pay for a service they use?"
I think his response to that question would be that people who can not pay for a service themselves should not expect to have or to be able to use that service. Making your question a moot point.

And then you asked him the question "why should we have to pay for someone else's health care?"
I think his response to that question would be "I don't think we should have to pay for someone else's health care so why are you asking me that?"
If he's saying that then he's saying poor people should be left to die because they can't pay for it. The fact is many people choose not to pay for healthcare because they use their money for something else leaving others to have to pay. We are not a society that leaves sick people to die.If that's what he's saying then that's a very disturbing view.
But if I am trying to speak for him and doing it incorrectly I hope he'll come along and correct me.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Yomama wrote:If you or a cherished loved one is dying at the steps of a hospital and you couldn't afford treatment, I doubt that you would be sitting on a sanctimonious "high horse" and agree with the hospital that you should die.

Teo said churches and charities can help, but they're not always available when a sudden life or death situation arises.

When someone writes a reply post and doesn't specifically mention who exactly the person is he's replying to, it can sometimes be taken that the person is replying to the last post before his reply.
I just want to make certain that you don't think I'm one who believes what you said in your first paragraph and the "you" in your first paragraph is not referring to me. lol

Guest


Guest

Yomama wrote:If you or a cherished loved one is dying at the steps of a hospital and you couldn't afford treatment, I doubt that you would be sitting on a sanctimonious "high horse" and agree with the hospital that you should die.

Teo said churches and charities can help, but they're not always available when a sudden life or death situation arises.


If Teo said that he very misinformed.Churches and charities do not pay for healthcare.That's a common belief that is false.

Floridatexan

Floridatexan

Bob wrote:
Damaged Eagle wrote:

Why should God be concerned with abstract human constructs?

Since I'm not posting anymore can someone please point out to him the inconsistency of that statement when we consider all the varied and many ways conservative Christians want to have God "be concerned with abstract human constructs" all the time and he's never posted to object to that? lol

What would be the point of explaining anything to him?

Guest


Guest

Dreamsglore wrote:
Bob wrote:
Dreamsglore wrote:
I think I read his response correctly. He said he doesn't believe you should be forced to pay for private insurance.

Oh he absolutely did say that. But you asked him "why shouldn't people have to pay for a service they use?"
I think his response to that question would be that people who can not pay for a service themselves should not expect to have or to be able to use that service. Making your question a moot point.

And then you asked him the question "why should we have to pay for someone else's health care?"
I think his response to that question would be "I don't think we should have to pay for someone else's health care so why are you asking me that?"
If he's saying that then he's saying poor people should be left to die because they can't pay for it. The fact is many people choose not to pay for healthcare because they use their money for something else leaving others to have to pay. We are not a society that leaves sick people to die.If that's what he's saying then that's a very disturbing view.
But if I am trying to speak for him and doing it incorrectly I hope he'll come along and correct me.

Guest


Guest

Dreamsglore wrote:
Bob wrote:
Dreamsglore wrote:
I think I read his response correctly. He said he doesn't believe you should be forced to pay for private insurance.

Oh he absolutely did say that. But you asked him "why shouldn't people have to pay for a service they use?"
I think his response to that question would be that people who can not pay for a service themselves should not expect to have or to be able to use that service. Making your question a moot point.

And then you asked him the question "why should we have to pay for someone else's health care?"
I think his response to that question would be "I don't think we should have to pay for someone else's health care so why are you asking me that?"
If he's saying that then he's saying poor people should be left to die because they can't pay for it. The fact is many people choose not to pay for healthcare because they use their money for something else leaving others to have to pay. We are not a society that leaves sick people to die.If that's what he's saying then that's a very disturbing view.
But if I am trying to speak for him and doing it incorrectly I hope he'll come along and correct me.

Floridatexan

Floridatexan

Damaged Eagle wrote:
Bob wrote:
I appreciate that and your familiarity with it. But now there is no University Hospital. All the trauma care is done by the private hospitals.
SO, if EMTALA was rescinded now and we followed yours (and others') philosophy to a T (no pun intended), there would be examples of people dying only because they couldn't pay for their medical treatment themselves.

Again I ask the question. Would your deity be okay with that?

Can anybody help me in this debate with teo. - Page 3 Th?id=I4755603224790257&pid=1

Why should God be concerned with abstract human constructs?

*****CHUCKLE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ky1nY3jlq1M

Smile

Can you say anything at all without having to rely on YouTube? It's beyond annoying.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Floridatexan wrote:
Bob wrote:
Damaged Eagle wrote:

Why should God be concerned with abstract human constructs?

Since I'm not posting anymore can someone please point out to him the inconsistency of that statement when we consider all the varied and many ways conservative Christians want to have God "be concerned with abstract human constructs" all the time and he's never posted to object to that? lol

What would be the point of explaining anything to him?
I thought that's what internet discussion forums are here for. For us to try to explain our views and especially try to explain our views to people who have different views. Because there really isn't much point in trying to explain something to those who already share the same views and have the same understanding of those views as we do.

Guest


Guest

Floridatexan wrote:
Can you say anything at all without having to rely on YouTube? It's beyond annoying.

Just because he posts a ouTube link does not mean that you must watch it. I no longer go to any YouTube links that anyone posts because I have found that they are for the most part are not relevant to the discussion. So I just ignore them and it is not annoying whatsoever. It would appear that you allow small things bother you.

Guest


Guest

My posts are not posting. I hate this internet connection.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Dreamsglore wrote:My posts are not posting. I hate this internet connection.
I hope you can get it worked out. I'm looking forward to reading your reply to what I said to you. lol

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

If you can't figure out how to get it to work, you can email it to me and I'll post it verbatim for you. My email address is <snotbobby@yahoo.com>
But if you decide to do that try to let me know somehow so I'll know to go log in to that yahoo email account.

Guest


Guest

Bob wrote:
Dreamsglore wrote:My posts are not posting. I hate this internet connection.
I hope you can get it worked out. I'm looking forward to reading your reply to what I said to you. lol

What I'm saying is we all use healthcare.Many people don't pay for it. The one's that can't shouldn't have to die because of it.The one's who don't want to should.Do you think we should let a child die because their family is poor? What the hell kind of people would we be. It's ironic because the one's who rant about abortion are the one's who don't want to pay for healthcare.What's up w/ that? Either you believe people have a right to live or you don't.What good is bringing a poor child into this world who will not be taken care of and left to die if their sick?

Guest


Guest

Ghost_Rider1 wrote:
Floridatexan wrote:
Can you say anything at all without having to rely on YouTube? It's beyond annoying.

Just because he posts a ouTube link does not mean that you must watch it. I no longer go to any YouTube links that anyone posts because I have found that they are for the most part are not relevant to the discussion. So I just ignore them and it is not annoying whatsoever. It would appear that you allow small things bother you.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

DE is definitely a small annoying thing. his smug condescension aside, he has no clue what a real neo-con is, and why they should be resisted on damned near everything.

like you stated, i have never clicked on his insipid youtube links.

besides, who takes an Iowa farmer serious these days....?

does he post while he's plowing...?

what an arrogant poser, from his avatar to his rhetoric.....he's a chucklehead.

Guest


Guest

Bob, I wasn't referring to you. What I was referring to was the people that feel patients really needing hospital care should be thrown down the steps of the establishment if they can't afford treatment.

I don't like subsidizing the indigent health care... I doubt if anybody does. I don't like seeing indigents with a head cold or a mild case of the flu going to the Emergency Room. Trauma or life-or-death... yes. The system is gamed and that Emergency Room crap should stop.

------------------------

Dreams, there are charities and churches that will, on a case by case basis, help families in need. Hell, there are charity hospitals like St. Jude that, according to their mission statement "... and no family ever pays St. Jude for anything". (Notice that I never said that charities or churches will pay for health care... as in their complete medical insurance.)

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Dreamsglore wrote:

What I'm saying is we all use healthcare.Many people don't pay for it. The one's that can't shouldn't have to die because of it.The one's who don't want to should.Do you think we should let a child die because their family is poor? What the hell kind of people would we be. It's ironic because the one's who rant about abortion are the one's who don't want to pay for healthcare.What's up w/ that? Either you believe people have a right to live or you don't.What good is bringing a poor child into this world who will not be taken care of and left to die if their sick?
Thanks for the further explanation.

I agree with the sentence in red. That's the whole point of my original discussion with teo which later turned into a discussion with damaged eagle.

I align myself with the crowd which doesn't want to redistribute wealth in some if not many cases.
For example, I'm a firm believer that those able bodied people who are receiving welfare and other government handouts SHOULD BE REQUIRED TO DO WORK IN EXCHANGE FOR IT. And by "able-bodied" I don't mean I exclude big fat lazy couch potato slobs from that even if they are welfare mothers. Working mothers have to work and raise children, so should they.

But I would go even further than the so-called conservatives on that. I would also stop all redistribution of wealth to the fat cats who are receiving it who to me are nothing more than another version of welfare queens.

However, a human being's health is a very big exception to me. Out of sheer humanitarian spirit, the spirit of Christianity, and just plain loving concern for the fellow members of my human species, I never want to see someone have to suffer or die only because he or she does not have the money him/herself to prevent that.
No, it aint in the Constitution. And no it aint a part of capitalism. And no it's not popular with radio talk jockeys, and no it aint popular with fox news, and no it aint popular with teo and damaged eagle. But I frankly don't give a rat's shit whether or not it is. I am never going to be in favor of letting someone suffer and die only because he's poor.
If it means that I have to pay more for the health insurance I buy then so be it. If it means that the government has to get involved to ensure that it doesn't happen then so be it.

The only dispute I had with you this time was that the two questions you posed to damaged eagle were terribly confusing.






Last edited by Bob on 8/17/2012, 12:23 pm; edited 1 time in total

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Yomama wrote:Bob, I wasn't referring to you. What I was referring to was the people that feel patients really needing hospital care should be thrown down the steps of the establishment if they can't afford treatment.

I didn't think you were but I just wanted to make sure of it. Wink

Now I have to go work on a pinball machine or the work won't be completed until I get to medicare age. But since I take breaks about every hour I'll look forward to coming back to see what's been added to this thread. lol

Floridatexan

Floridatexan

Ghost_Rider1 wrote:
Floridatexan wrote:
Can you say anything at all without having to rely on YouTube? It's beyond annoying.

Just because he posts a ouTube link does not mean that you must watch it. I no longer go to any YouTube links that anyone posts because I have found that they are for the most part are not relevant to the discussion. So I just ignore them and it is not annoying whatsoever. It would appear that you allow small things bother you.

You know what, Ghost. You just said a mouthful. It IS the small things that bother me, the little kickback here; the little accounting gimmick there, the little insider trading phone call, the little lie, and the little shifting of the burden of responsibility. They all add up to a very frightening picture of the state of humanity today...we keep hearing about the "new normal". We need to return to the "old normal", and I mean that in the sense that we need to cultivate our own sense of morality and ethics. Of course, it's a clear violation of the Hippocratic Oath to leave a person dying on the steps of a hospital because he can't pay the bill. It's also a violation to keep a person stabilized on life support when all signs of life are gone. Every profession has its ethical guidelines, which seem to have gone the way of the dodo. But, in addition to professional guidelines, one might hope that each individual has a PERSONAL set of morals and ethics. I'm so sick of liars, and in particular I'm sick of people who hide behind religion while they actively participate in the antithesis of spiritual awareness and call it religion.

Guest


Guest

FT, I don't think that Ghost_Rider was saying that what you wanted to portray was unimportant. It is posts with YouTube links in general... ones that have no explanation as to what the video portrays or, if it is a long one, how much time it will take. Time is valuable to people and nobody wants to waste their time loading a video and watching part of it, just to find out they're not interested in the artist, music or subject portrayed... or that it is a 30-minute video.

I don't click on them unless I have some description to go by.

Guest


Guest

Floridatexan wrote:
You know what, Ghost. You just said a mouthful. It IS the small things that bother me, the little kickback here; the little accounting gimmick there, the little insider trading phone call, the little lie, and the little shifting of the burden of responsibility. They all add up to a very frightening picture of the state of humanity today...we keep hearing about the "new normal". We need to return to the "old normal", and I mean that in the sense that we need to cultivate our own sense of morality and ethics. Of course, it's a clear violation of the Hippocratic Oath to leave a person dying on the steps of a hospital because he can't pay the bill. It's also a violation to keep a person stabilized on life support when all signs of life are gone. Every profession has its ethical guidelines, which seem to have gone the way of the dodo. But, in addition to professional guidelines, one might hope that each individual has a PERSONAL set of morals and ethics. I'm so sick of liars, and in particular I'm sick of people who hide behind religion while they actively participate in the antithesis of spiritual awareness and call it religion.

I think you may have misinterpreted what I posted. I was speaking of nothing more that the post of youtube videos as being a nuisance and little things such as that. The other things that you mentioned I know are not small. Those are some real issues facing society today, but posting of a video link as annoying, now come on, it ain't all that bad.

Thanks Eric, that is exactly what I was talking about.

Floridatexan

Floridatexan

Yomama wrote:Bob, I wasn't referring to you. What I was referring to was the people that feel patients really needing hospital care should be thrown down the steps of the establishment if they can't afford treatment.

I don't like subsidizing the indigent health care... I doubt if anybody does. I don't like seeing indigents with a head cold or a mild case of the flu going to the Emergency Room. Trauma or life-or-death... yes. The system is gamed and that Emergency Room crap should stop.

------------------------

Dreams, there are charities and churches that will, on a case by case basis, help families in need. Hell, there are charity hospitals like St. Jude that, according to their mission statement "... and no family ever pays St. Jude for anything". (Notice that I never said that charities or churches will pay for health care... as in their complete medical insurance.)

Churches and charities receive donations and can also be recipients of government grants and other programs for their non-profit healthcare initiatives. It's really not the fault of the people sitting in the ER at 4 am that it's their only option. We had a better healthcare delivery system when I moved here in 1979. There are many reasons for the problems we're having with health care delivery in this country, not the least of which is the draconian mess created by the insurance industry and the pharmaceutical giants and their massive profit-taking off the backs of those who are sick or injured.

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