The Universe

Sal wrote:

Damaged Eagle wrote:

Look how small the universe is at only thirty billion light years in diameter which is an insignificant number when compared against infinity.

Any number is insignificant in comparison to the concept of infinity, you idiot.

Oh look! The peanut gallery has arrived to state the obvious.

Since they are incapable of explaining how their all powerful science is incapable of adequately reconciling a concept against their own beliefs they resort to throwing stones in a vain attempt to silence the heretic.

Just another example of faith through force if all else fails.

*****ROFLMAO*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ljy6PTbX9I

Damaged Eagle wrote:
I see... So there was one big happy universal size black hole sitting around minding it's own business then suddenly a miracle occurred 15 billion years ago and it became a expanding dynamic universe. Also because you have faith that this is the way it happened you have no desire to question that faith even though it goes against scientific laws, method, and principle.

So what you're saying is your faith is really no different than that of Christians, Hindu's, Buddhists, etc... and their beliefs about creation.

*****CHUCKLE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diOuUYcenW0

No idea why you keep implying that I think there was some supermassive black hole. I said that we know - not faith, we know - that the universe is expanding. Reverse that and follow it to its natural conclusion and you come to realize that everything seems to have come from some single point. This doesn't require any level of faith; it is simply an observation of fact.

That you compare observable facts with fairytales is your problem to reconcile. Not mine.

boards of FL wrote:

Damaged Eagle wrote:
I see... So there was one big happy universal size black hole sitting around minding it's own business then suddenly a miracle occurred 15 billion years ago and it became a expanding dynamic universe. Also because you have faith that this is the way it happened you have no desire to question that faith even though it goes against scientific laws, method, and principle.

So what you're saying is your faith is really no different than that of Christians, Hindu's, Buddhists, etc... and their beliefs about creation.

*****CHUCKLE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diOuUYcenW0

No idea why you keep implying that I think there was some supermassive black hole. I said that we know - not faith, we know - that the universe is expanding. Reverse that and follow it to its natural conclusion and you come to realize that everything seems to have come from some single point. This doesn't require any level of faith; it is simply an observation of fact.

That you compare observable facts with fairytales is your problem to reconcile. Not mine.

Because you said I was correct about everything contracting until it reached it's Schwarzschild radius.

Here's the answer you gave on the last page...

Damaged Eagle wrote:
If it moves backwards in time it will contract until it reaches is Schwarzschild radius...

Boards Of Florida wrote:
Correct. Logic dictates that as we move backward in time, the universe contracts.

That is what science says and when our universe collapses in upon itself it will reach it's natural entropic state, which the Laws Of Thermodynamics say happens to all matter, of a black hole governed by it's Schwarzschild radius.

Are you now making up imaginary scientific facts to fit your beliefs that science holds the answers to all questions?

I thought you had faith in firm scientific theory.

*****CHUCKLE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jm2MB14JTSM

What is infinity squared?

Just because we don't know the answer to that, doesn't mean the gods and the aliens and the people from the future and the people from the other dimensions don't know. And all those are ONLY the people we know about. There may be a people standing right in front of you right now. You just don't know it because none of your sensory organs are sensing it. And that's because our senses cannot detect a presence from the 14th dimension. So next time you do something stupid, think about that you're being watched. All the time.

I guarantee you they were watching me when I tried to sneak that pint of whiskey into the Hangout festival yesterday. Because that is the only plausible explanation for why those rent-a-cops were able to spot it on me.
They got tipped off. Probably by extra sensory perception. There was a UFO over the property. I saw it I think it was after I'd made the 9th trip to the $7 beer booth. lol

By the way, I can tell you what it was like for this old fart to go the Hangout Festival with one sentence. It's the most fun I've had in 44 years.

Damaged Eagle wrote:
That is what science says and when our universe collapses in upon itself it will reach it's natural entropic state, which the Laws Of Thermodynamics say happens to all matter, of a black hole governed by it's Schwarzschild radius.

Are you now making up imaginary scientific facts to fit your beliefs that science holds the answers to all questions?

I thought you had faith in firm scientific theory.

*****CHUCKLE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jm2MB14JTSM

When did I ever say the universe collapsed back on itself? Why can't you simply read what I actually write and then respond to that, rather than put words in my mouth? I have no way of knowing if there was some other state of our universe that ultimate collapsed on itself, only to begin expanding again. Such a belief would require faith on my part - at least, until there is some scientific way of determining as much. I don't subscribe to taking things on faith. All I have said is that we know the universe is expanding, so logic dictates that at some point in time, the universe began expanding from some single point. I have said nothing beyond that. No faith is required to make the observation that I have made. Nevertheless, feel free to twist what I am saying and add whatever you like so that you can imply that I am blinding following something on faith alone.

We also know that the expansion is speeding up. And I cannot wrap my mind around that one. Anything we know of which can be characterized as an "explosion" does not speed up with time. So of course that would make the Big Bang not actually be an explosion as we know it. It's some concept which apparently has no relationship to that.
And then we get into the relationship between time and space. I think Einstein had to be an alien because you'll never convince me a human brain came up with how that works.

boards of FL wrote:

When did I ever say the universe collapsed back on itself? Why can't you simply read what I actually write and then respond to that, rather than put words in my mouth? I have no way of knowing if there was some other state of our universe that ultimate collapsed on itself, only to begin expanding again. Such a belief would require faith on my part - at least, until there is some scientific way of determining as much. I don't subscribe to taking things on faith. All I have said is that we know the universe is expanding, so logic dictates that at some point in time, the universe began expanding from some single point. I have said nothing beyond that. No faith is required to make the observation that I have made. Nevertheless, feel free to twist what I am saying and add whatever you like so that you can imply that I am blinding following something on faith alone.

Don't worry I have every intention of doing so...

If you agree with science holding all the answers to the universe then I don't understand your problem..... Unless... You don't know what your own belief system says about the nature of our universe?... That's great! A believer with faith who has no idea what his own abstract belief system contains within it's teachings.....

Then you have the nerve to call others who have faith in their own religious belief systems cavemen?

Sounds to me like you're a Neanderthalic hypocrite.

*****CHUCKLE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgRtPtfSegI

Bob wrote:We also know that the expansion is speeding up. And I cannot wrap my mind around that one. Anything we know of which can be characterized as an "explosion" does not speed up with time. So of course that would make the Big Bang not actually be an explosion as we know it. It's some concept which apparently has no relationship to that.
And then we get into the relationship between time and space. I think Einstein had to be an alien because you'll never convince me a human brain came up with how that works.

That does present a problem now doesn't it?

*****CHUCKLE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96kwILL35ig

About 15 years ago it first occurred to me. If the universe is "expanding", what is it expanding into? What is the expansion displacing?

That's when I started asking that question on the internet in a science forum. The answer they told me was "you don't understand, it's not expanding INTO anything". They never could actually explain that, just told me I'm too layman to understand.

And then about a month ago I was listening to "Science Fantastic". That's the weekly three-hour radio show theoretical physicist and science popularist (like today's version of Sagan) Michio Kaku does. And I'll be damned if Kaku wasn't telling me that others are asking the same question and nobody has an answer.

What leads y'all to believe that the universe is infinite? There's alot of science I haven't seen discussed.. like vacuum physics.

http://www.redorbit.com/news/space/1112787040/universe-not-infinite-after-all-021913/

But I don't want to ruin the party... enjoy.

The same holds true for the question of why the universe suddenly kick started only fifteen billion years ago and what caused it to occur thereby defying Newton's Three Laws of Motion.

*****SMILE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQzUCO7rG0M

*****CHUCKLE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YEYcJnSZYg

PkrBum wrote:What leads y'all to believe that the universe is infinite? There's alot of science I haven't seen discussed.. like vacuum physics.

http://www.redorbit.com/news/space/1112787040/universe-not-infinite-after-all-021913/

But I don't want to ruin the party... enjoy.

Why shouldn't it be infinite?

*****SMILE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQzUCO7rG0M

I don't know... why should it be infinite? If forces render the universe unstable at some point... then infinite is meaningless.

I enjoyed the quantum mechanics version of the big bang... but I'm not even sure there was a big bang. Good luck.

PkrBum wrote:I don't know... why should it be infinite? If forces render the universe unstable at some point... then infinite is meaningless.

I enjoyed the quantum mechanics version of the big bang... but I'm not even sure there was a big bang. Good luck.

One of the many questions about life, the universe, and everything.

Glad you're enjoying the big bang... As they say...

A good offense is the best defense.

*****CHUCKLE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZxVC0GB838

Damaged Eagle wrote:

The same holds true for the question of why the universe suddenly kick started only fifteen billion years ago and what caused it to occur thereby defying Newton's Three Laws of Motion.

How does the Big Bang defy Newton's Laws?

When they tell me "you don't understand, it's not expanding into ANYTHING", I just don't get that.

Take a cube of three-dimensional space. No one is denying that is not expanding in three dimensions. And when that block of space expands into a larger block (which expansion does indeed require it to do), then it defies logic that the expansion doesn't require something was there before it expanded into it. Some who claim expertise will actually give you the answer that it "expands into nothing and displaces nothing". But no one can define what "nothing" is. I've never heard any science attempt to explain what "nothing" is. Making that nonsensical.
So we still have the problem of three dimensions expanding and what is it expanding into? What is that expansion displacing?
And no the existence of a fourth dimension does not explain that.
Until someone can adequately explain that, we don't know jack shit. We've just convinced ourselves we do.

Bob wrote:When they tell me "you don't understand, it's not expanding into ANYTHING", I just don't get that.

Take a cube of three-dimensional space. No one is denying that is not expanding in three dimensions. And when that block of space expands into a larger block (which expansion does indeed require it to do), then it defies logic that the expansion doesn't require something was there before it expanded into it. Some who claim expertise will actually give you the answer that it "expands into nothing and displaces nothing". But no one can define what "nothing" is. I've never heard any science attempt to explain what "nothing" is. Making that nonsensical.
So we still have the problem of three dimensions expanding and what is it expanding into? What is that expansion displacing?
And no the existence of a fourth dimension does not explain that.
Until someone can adequately explain that, we don't know jack shit. We've just convinced ourselves we do.

You would need to read about vacuum energy/physics to get a glimpse into the displacement... it might also help explain the instability of space. That's why I said infinity is irrelevant. There are also some interesting ideas about microwave theory that might explain our observations.

PkrBum wrote:

You would need to read about vacuum energy/physics to get a glimpse into the displacement..

Please try to put it into a couple of paragraphs to help me get started.

Okay, found this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum_energy

I cannot grasp what that concept is and how it explains the displacement.
This is WAY over my head.

I'll be down there in a few weeks... maybe we could do it over a few beers and a doobie... lol.

My eyes are nearly crossed right now from trying to find hillary's full senate testimony transcript.

PkrBum wrote:I'll be down there in a few weeks... maybe we could do it over a few beers and a doobie... lol.

By all means. I heard you were coming down. But only beers, I don't do anything illegal.

Bob wrote:

PkrBum wrote:I'll be down there in a few weeks... maybe we could do it over a few beers and a doobie... lol.

By all means. I heard you were coming down. But only beers, I don't do anything illegal.

Oh... ya... me neither... I meant doobie in a metaphoric cosmic kinda way.

PkrBum wrote:

Oh... ya... me neither... I meant doobie in a metaphoric cosmic kinda way.

You meant listening to the Doobie Brothers while we're hoisting some brews. I can surely get into that.