The Universe

TEOTWAWKI wrote:We are like unbelievably insignificant beings living on an electron in an atom that minimally helps makes up a piece of cheese...we have very limited perspective advantage but if you want to stretch credulity have fun.

Man you are becoming more and more of a Sultanist with each successive post.

Sal wrote:On the fifteenth of May
In the Jungle of Nool
In the heat of the day
In the cool of the pool

he was splashing enjoying
the jungle's great joys
when Horton the elephant
heard a small noise ...

Lol... I had never heard of that movie/story until recently. My nephews turned it on and I loved it.

and of course the line which delivers the message of the story:

"even though you can’t see or hear them at all, a person’s a person, no matter how small."

Bob wrote:and of course the line which delivers the message of the story:

"even though you can’t see or hear them at all, a person’s a person, no matter how small."

Jim Cantore is still waiting for his apology......

TEOTWAWKI wrote:

Bob wrote:and of course the line which delivers the message of the story:

"even though you can’t see or hear them at all, a person’s a person, no matter how small."

Jim Cantore is still waiting for his apology......

I might have been willing to apologize if he'd taken his bullshit off my tv screen. lol

boards of FL wrote:

Damaged Eagle wrote:So what was there 14 to 15 billion years ago if it wasn't a universal size black hole?

Space and energy.

According to theory the universe is a bubble of space time that is only 14-15 billion light years in radius. Now the age of the universe is estimated to be 14-15 billion years old and expanding it's average radius at approximately one light year per year. This means that at the time of the big bang all that energy that should be traveling at the speed of light was contained in a small bubble of space.

What contained it to prevent it from expanding prior to 14-15 billion years ago?

Harry Potter's wand?

The only thing I know of that can contain that much mass and energy and prevent it from expanding in all directions is a universal sized black hole.

*****SMILE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQzUCO7rG0M

boards of FL wrote:

Damaged Eagle wrote:To a alien race that could conceivably be more advanced than us or a human civilization thousands of years in the future... Our science may look like a quaint childish metaphor of how we describe things in the world happen.

A new fundamental discovery of a basic law of the nature of the universe could undermine the basic principles of all that we think we know. However if in your arrogance about your belief in science you think it's appropriate to belittle other beliefs like BOF did at the beginning of this discussion then by all means...

Are you suggesting that we learn more about our surroundings over time?

Those that are capable of learning and correlating the data do.

*****SMILE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhat-xUQ6dw

PkrBum wrote:

boards of FL wrote:

Damaged Eagle wrote:So what was there 14 to 15 billion years ago if it wasn't a universal size black hole?

Space and energy.

I'm guessing that the time estimate here is based on our microwave observations... too many variables to be known yet.

Yeah... But they keep pushing it out further and further as they discover new galaxies and other stuff beyond the previous edge they set.

I'm waiting for them to decide there is no edge to the space time bubble.

*****CHUCKLE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uE3bph7r5pQ

The quantum mechanics version is that there was a highly energetic/hot soup or fog immediately after the bang... it wasn't until it cooled sufficiently for a recollection of elemental matter... then the photons could begin expanding in cleared space. I like the theory... but there are tons of variables and we may not even be interpreting the cooling or microwaves or even our observations (angle) correctly. Science isn't certainty... well I guess bad science sometimes can be.

and just consider the gravity if mass was concentrated as predicted in that theory... it's hard to reconcile... we seem to be missing some gravity in this dimension. I love this stuff... but it's probably as much mental masturbation as religion for the next thousand years.

I think that as with stars and galaxies there is a universal size black hole and that our universe still contains one at it's center. This anomaly is what makes us perceive space time as we know it simply because of it's nearby presence and effects. Just as a black hole that is the size of a star or at the center of a galaxy affects the meaning of space time in it's immediate vicinity.

Taking this further if space is infinite then, like our own universe which has galaxies with black holes at their center, there are other universes beyond the edge of what we perceive 14-15 billion light years that have similar black holes in their centers. Yet due to the speed of light, possible dark matter in between, and their distance from our own universal reality, would we ever perceive such? This would explain why our universe can keep expanding into nothing because there is something. Namely more space.

However this could all be BS.

*****SMILE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzifM9squYc

PkrBum wrote:and just consider the gravity if mass was concentrated as predicted in that theory... it's hard to reconcile... we seem to be missing some gravity in this dimension. I love this stuff... but it's probably as much mental masturbation as religion for the next thousand years.

It would impossible for mass or energy (light) to escape unless an event occurred. Like another universal size black hole either colliding with or having a near miss.

*****SMILE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQzUCO7rG0M

lol... true... but einstein predicted the gravitational curvature of space... distance may be irrelevant. Especially if matter can appear and disappear even at the smallest level... or if there is different polarity. We may simply not be able to detect layers of dimensions right in front of our nose.

Well if it takes light all those years to get back to us we are looking at a universe at distance that is ancient ancient history...it may all be spiraling into a black hole right now and we won't find out until it's our turn.....all that relative stuff....

TEOTWAWKI wrote:Well if it takes light all those years to get back to us we are looking at a universe at distance that is ancient ancient history...it may all be spiraling into a black hole right now and we won't find out until it's our turn.....all that relative stuff....

Our future is precarious even without that. All it would take to end us all is for some unforeseen anomaly happening with our star.
Or an asteroid that we haven't detected yet.
Or a visit from Hawking's Klingons.
Or our own self-destruction.
Or God doing us all in to punish us for tolerating sodomy.

But right now I've got to put the worrying about all that on hold so I can watch this Redbox rental (Gangster Squad) before it has to be returned tonight. I don't want to pay for two days rental.

Bob wrote:

TEOTWAWKI wrote:Well if it takes light all those years to get back to us we are looking at a universe at distance that is ancient ancient history...it may all be spiraling into a black hole right now and we won't find out until it's our turn.....all that relative stuff....

Our future is precarious even without that. All it would take to end us all is for some unforeseen anomaly happening with our star.
Or an asteroid that we haven't detected yet.
Or a visit from Hawking's Klingons.
Or our own self-destruction.
Or God doing us all in to punish us for tolerating sodomy.

I'm going with option "C", our end will come from our own destruction. We are our own worst enemies after all.

Damaged Eagle wrote:What contained it to prevent it from expanding prior to 14-15 billion years ago?

boards of FL wrote:"But what caused the universe to start expanding?" I don't know, and I'm comfortable with that. I feel no need to fill in the gaps with old fairy-tales.

Damaged Eagle wrote:The only thing I know of that can contain that much mass and energy and prevent it from expanding in all directions is a universal sized black hole.

That would require for there to be matter. Also, black holes don't spew a universe of space and energy. They actually do somewhat the opposite.

Well Bob lets think about that...most of the Bible in one way or another points to the salvation of man coming through the Son of God. Now Christ speaks of the church as his Bride. She is to be pure and holy in order for any union to be possible. Since all of this creation is possibly just an effort by God to redeem his creation from it's sin(missing the mark) perhaps our bad behavior shakes the very pillars of mercy. When you fly into the face of Nature and natures God that may confirm or deny God's reasoning to redeem us...in other words we are judging ourselves....The war between good and evil, Spirit and carnality. We are the wolf we feed.........it's not smart to be helping the devil prove we aren't worth saving......shall we sin more now so grace may abound?...not likely.

TEOTWAWKI wrote:Well Bob lets think about that...most of the Bible in one way or another points to ...

The Bible points to just about anything you or anyone else wants it to point to.
Have you already forgotten your earlier words: "You have a very valid point, words do fail."

You're gonna have to stop this backsliding and repent else thou will have to expatriate you from Sultanism. lol

So far this is where we find ourselves. Beyond this, where she goes nobody knows...

http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20130502-what-came-before-the-big-bang/2

Bob wrote:

TEOTWAWKI wrote:Well Bob lets think about that...most of the Bible in one way or another points to ...

The Bible points to just about anything you or anyone else wants it to point to.
Have you already forgotten your earlier words: "You have a very valid point, words do fail."

You're gonna have to stop this backsliding and repent else thou will have to expatriate you from Sultanism. lol

Well if Sultanism requires blowing off the wisdom of the ages and accepting that whatever gets you through the night is alright I don't think I will make deacon.....

TEOTWAWKI wrote:

Well if Sultanism requires blowing off the wisdom of the ages and accepting that whatever gets you through the night is alright I don't think I will make deacon.....

"The wisdom of the ages". Now there's an oxymoron.

Bob wrote:

TEOTWAWKI wrote:

Well if Sultanism requires blowing off the wisdom of the ages and accepting that whatever gets you through the night is alright I don't think I will make deacon.....

"The wisdom of the ages". Now there's an oxymoron.

All people make the mistake of thinking their time is the most enlightened ever....we certainly have the cleanest brains..... from all the brain washing...