The Universe

Did God create the universe?

Is it simply a mechanical universe?

Or something else like...

*****CHUCKLE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZyNKrYo9I4 ?????

Dude, that's a big can of worms I opened up more than 5 years ago on another forum. Nobody is open minded enough to discuss it intelligently and without bias. Always turns into a slug fest.

Even with all the materials in place I have never seen a house build itself.....

ImpishScoundrel wrote:Dude, that's a big can of worms I opened up more than 5 years ago on another forum. Nobody is open minded enough to discuss it intelligently and without bias. Always turns into a slug fest.

Well... There is that... OK I'll admit that I was trying to get a big argument going about what's what... Besides I figured it'd entice Bob to make an appearance since he hasn't posted lately and I know this sort of thing interests him.... Me too if truth be told... Besides it's always interesting to hear what others have to say about reality and...

*****CHUCKLE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJCgINccuuM

Damaged Eagle wrote:

ImpishScoundrel wrote:Dude, that's a big can of worms I opened up more than 5 years ago on another forum. Nobody is open minded enough to discuss it intelligently and without bias. Always turns into a slug fest.

Well... There is that... OK I'll admit that I was trying to get a big argument going about what's what... Besides I figured it'd entice Bob to make an appearance since he hasn't posted lately and I know this sort of thing interests him.... Me too if truth be told... Besides it's always interesting to hear what others have to say about reality and...

*****CHUCKLE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJCgINccuuM

I always liked Bob. Odd, but in a very likable sorta way.

ImpishScoundrel wrote:
I always liked Bob. Odd, but in a very likable sorta way.

I kinda like Bob too... That is when he isn't being a jerk and doing things... Like attempting to invite someone along, who I have no respect for (Hallmarkgrad), to a dinner I promised him if I ever make it to Florida.

*****SMILE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQzUCO7rG0M

Damaged Eagle wrote:

Did God create the universe?

Is it simply a mechanical universe?

Or something else like...

That is such a delicate issue that I believe will never be solved unequivocally. One one hand you have the Bible saying one thing and on the other the scientist. Most Christians are unwavering in the teachings from the Bible and science cannot convince them differently.

Ghost_Rider1 wrote:

Damaged Eagle wrote:

Did God create the universe?

Is it simply a mechanical universe?

Or something else like...

That is such a delicate issue that I believe will never be solved unequivocally. One one hand you have the Bible saying one thing and on the other the scientist. Most Christians are unwavering in the teachings from the Bible and science cannot convince them differently.

I'm thinking you're using a broad brush to paint Christians with...

Does science answer all questions unequivocally?

*****SMILE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQzUCO7rG0M

*****CHUCKLE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWVshkVF0SY

OK... So no one wants to take up a cause and support a position.

My position is that God must have had a helping hand in creating the universe.

*****CHUCKLE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuGzJVKtW6g

Well I prefer to state the question you're asking this way...
What is the nature of existence?

And my take on it is that it's now become very obvious to me that I have no capacity whatever to have an answer to that question and never will. And I'm okay with it remaining a mystery.

That's about it. No worship of religion or science either one. And whatever others want to worship is okay by me as long as it doesn't make laws requiring that I believe it too. Aside from that, go for it.

Bob wrote:Well I prefer to state the question you're asking this way...
What is the nature of existence?

And my take on it is that it's now become very obvious to me that I have no capacity whatever to have an answer to that question and never will. And I'm okay with it remaining a mystery.

That's about it. No worship of religion or science either one. And whatever others want to worship is okay by me as long as it doesn't make laws requiring that I believe it too. Aside from that, go for it.

You'd be surprised how close our opinions are to being exactly the same.

You know I kind of miss some of the discussions that Imp and I had with other members at the DMR about issues like this. Some of them were so set in their ways... Especially the atheists and their strict beliefs about science being the answer to all the questions about the universe.

Oh well! I tried.

*****SMILE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zfCQgfF5wI

Damaged Eagle wrote:

Bob wrote:Well I prefer to state the question you're asking this way...
What is the nature of existence?

And my take on it is that it's now become very obvious to me that I have no capacity whatever to have an answer to that question and never will. And I'm okay with it remaining a mystery.

That's about it. No worship of religion or science either one. And whatever others want to worship is okay by me as long as it doesn't make laws requiring that I believe it too. Aside from that, go for it.

You'd be surprised how close our opinions are to being exactly the same.

You know I kind of miss some of the discussions that Imp and I had with other members at the DMR about issues like this. Some of them were so set in their ways... Especially the atheists and their strict beliefs about science being the answer to all the questions about the universe.

Oh well! I tried.

*****SMILE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zfCQgfF5wI

we used to have long drawn out fist fights over this type of subject years ago amongst ourselves. sme threads would have hundreds post.

its almost impossible to get a science related thread started here, and the others simply just don't care about any religion theologies unless it involves politics. every thing in this forum has to point back to politics.

I believe in God btw. and I can tell you that no one here will concede on any point of where evolution is not a proven fact, because they think it is and don't understand theory.

My question is how self awareness developed. We have 3 score and 10 to figure out the who, what, why, where and how of it all and then we are gone. Not enough time, not nearly....

TEOTWAWKI wrote:My question is how self awareness developed.

It's a great question. One of the most interesting and fascinating things we can ever wonder about.

But, believe it or not (and I know you won't), not every question we ask requires that we invent an answer. If we had answers to everything about our existence, we wouldn't be us. We would be god. And I don't know about you but if there's one thing I know I'm not, it's that I'm not god.
I kind of like being a human being instead and not having all the answers. Because I think in the final analysis that's part of what it means to be a human being. Not having all the answers.

Bob wrote:

TEOTWAWKI wrote:My question is how self awareness developed.

It's a great question. One of the most interesting and fascinating things we can ever wonder about.

But, believe it or not (and I know you won't), not every question we ask requires that we invent an answer. If we had answers to everything about our existence, we wouldn't be us. We would be god. And I don't know about you but if there's one thing I know I'm not, it's that I'm not god.
I kind of like being a human being instead and not having all the answers. Because I think in the final analysis that's part of what it means to be a human being. Not having all the answers.

It is a great question. And, it's questions like those which make for wonderful dialectics through philosophy, which I suck at yet love, and logical reason. The answer is not as relevant as is the exploration through argument. It's the killjoys who are unwaveringly devoted to the beliefs and teachings of another, instead of believing what their own minds can come up with, that usually ruins these types of discussions.

You can believe in creation and yet explore evolution. You can believe in science and still explore philosophy. You can believe in the tangible and ponder the unimaginable. All you have to do is take the blinders off.

Damaged Eagle wrote: Especially the atheists and their strict beliefs about science being the answer to all the questions about the universe.

Before I came to this forum I participated in another forum. It was a movie forum.
And the movie "The Time Machine" sparked a debate between me on one side and a professional physicist and a physics buff on the other side. The debate last six months believe it or not.I took up the debate after the physicist posted this comment: "science has now discovered about 80% of all the fundamental knowledge there is to know". And then physics buff posted to agree with that.

I wish I could link you to that thread because I think you would enjoy reading it.
But it was a movie forum hosted by a home theater equipment business and after six months they decided it wasn't conducive to their doing business so they abruptly deleted the whole thing. I put six months of my life into that writing and it was by far the best writing I have ever done. And then someone with the push of a keystroke made it all just instantly disappear.
But I'm not bitter about that. Because participating in that thread is what taught me most of what I know about communicating with writing.

Science will never reveal the nature of existence anymore than religion will. Both are really nothing more than constructs of human intellect. And both are limited to that.
And of course both science and religion are in denial of that reality.

But please don't get me wrong. I am fully convinced that both religion and science (and philosophy) have their place in human society. In fact I actually believe that both religion and science are a part of our very nature.
Both act as the vehicles for that "exploration" which ImpishScoundrel articulated so well in his post.
And I'm all for that exploration and I'm all for continually asking the questions.

It might seen a little odd for someone to say he's all for asking the questions after he's already said there is no final answer at the end.
That's part of the reason our reality is so difficult for so many of us to accept.
But it really doesn't have to be. We make it so much harder than it is. We've always done that.
But once you begin to realize what it means to be a human being and acknowledge that we do have limitations, it actually gets easier to accept that reality and make the most of what we actually are, not what we wish to be.
Denial of reality is truly a lot more difficult thing to live with. Thousands of years of human civilization has produced more than enough evidence of that.

Who is that baby contemplating it's navel? Is it the religionist, is it the scientist, is it me or is it you?
I get it, it's all of us. lol

Well put. lol

Chrissy wrote:

Damaged Eagle wrote:

Bob wrote:Well I prefer to state the question you're asking this way...
What is the nature of existence?

And my take on it is that it's now become very obvious to me that I have no capacity whatever to have an answer to that question and never will. And I'm okay with it remaining a mystery.

That's about it. No worship of religion or science either one. And whatever others want to worship is okay by me as long as it doesn't make laws requiring that I believe it too. Aside from that, go for it.

You'd be surprised how close our opinions are to being exactly the same.

You know I kind of miss some of the discussions that Imp and I had with other members at the DMR about issues like this. Some of them were so set in their ways... Especially the atheists and their strict beliefs about science being the answer to all the questions about the universe.

Oh well! I tried.

*****SMILE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zfCQgfF5wI

we used to have long drawn out fist fights over this type of subject years ago amongst ourselves. sme threads would have hundreds post.

its almost impossible to get a science related thread started here, and the others simply just don't care about any religion theologies unless it involves politics. every thing in this forum has to point back to politics.

I believe in God btw. and I can tell you that no one here will concede on any point of where evolution is not a proven fact, because they think it is and don't understand theory.

Yeah the politics has been getting a little boring... We need a good...

*****CHUCKLE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L74XDgMcwKk

TEOTWAWKI wrote:My question is how self awareness developed. We have 3 score and 10 to figure out the who, what, why, where and how of it all and then we are gone. Not enough time, not nearly....

I think a better question is how this thing we call life originated.

*****SMILE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGl_if3tXBc

TEOTWAWKI wrote:Even with all the materials in place I have never seen a house build itself.....

But seeing an unexplained supernatural, all-powerful being create a universe, on the other hand....

Bob wrote:

TEOTWAWKI wrote:My question is how self awareness developed.

It's a great question. One of the most interesting and fascinating things we can ever wonder about.

But, believe it or not (and I know you won't), not every question we ask requires that we invent an answer. If we had answers to everything about our existence, we wouldn't be us. We would be god. And I don't know about you but if there's one thing I know I'm not, it's that I'm not god.
I kind of like being a human being instead and not having all the answers. Because I think in the final analysis that's part of what it means to be a human being. Not having all the answers.

How can you be sure?

*****CHUCKLE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZyNKrYo9I4

Ghost_Rider1 wrote:One one hand you have the Bible saying one thing and on the other the scientist.

Or, put another way, on one hand you have cave dwellers with whatever knowledge they possessed thousands of years ago, and then you have highly educated people of today, with all of their powerful instruments and technology.

Cave dwellers from thousands of years ago vs scientists of today.