HomeEither the conspiracy to surveil the trump campaign is prosecuted or he should begin doing the same now.
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THE MUELLER REPORT IS IN
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gatorfan
zsomething
Sal
2seaoat
bigdog
Telstar
PkrBum
Deus X
RealLindaL
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52 Re: THE MUELLER REPORT IS IN 3/26/2019, 9:30 pm
Telstar
RealLindaL wrote:Telstar wrote: If they do they are missing some mighty fine posts from polecat. No need to be sorry for this Linda, I still love you.
Awww, too sweet. (Really.)
But do you love me enough to clean up your signature and quit taking up so much space to say things we've all seen and read a gazillion times?
As for polecat, I agree. His gathered stuff is always spot on and usually amusing as hell.
53 Re: THE MUELLER REPORT IS IN 3/26/2019, 9:40 pm
othershoe1030
After two years of waiting for the Mueller Report (and still waiting) for it to be released, I was shocked with disbelief Sunday to hear Bill Barr's ultra-partisan image of what Mueller's report contains. After taking a few thousand breaths I have come to the conclusion that the Barr memo is giving DJT the ability to establish in the public's mind that he is clean as a whistle, nothing to see here, it was in fact all a hoax. Once this image is clearly fixed in voters' minds it will take something really disturbingly horrendous happening (not unimaginable) to make people wake up to the fact that this guy has to go.
After all the reports of the meetings his staff had with the Russians, and lied about it, the business deals he lied about, the unexplainable Trump Hotel in DC (how could that have happened?) to say nothing of 45 himself explaining to Lester Holt his reasons for firing Comey (talk about having his intentions on tape!) disappointing does not begin to describe my reaction to Barr's memo.
Now, he is on the offense, throwing a tantrum, attacking investigative reporters and the press in general, anyone in congress who dared to investigate his campaign or him, etc. etc. he has become a whirling dervish of disruption.
He is truly a frightening political figure. The only way out of this is to beat him in 2020. I keep remembering that even Nixon was re-elected and that is a sobering thought.
After all the reports of the meetings his staff had with the Russians, and lied about it, the business deals he lied about, the unexplainable Trump Hotel in DC (how could that have happened?) to say nothing of 45 himself explaining to Lester Holt his reasons for firing Comey (talk about having his intentions on tape!) disappointing does not begin to describe my reaction to Barr's memo.
Now, he is on the offense, throwing a tantrum, attacking investigative reporters and the press in general, anyone in congress who dared to investigate his campaign or him, etc. etc. he has become a whirling dervish of disruption.
He is truly a frightening political figure. The only way out of this is to beat him in 2020. I keep remembering that even Nixon was re-elected and that is a sobering thought.
54 Re: THE MUELLER REPORT IS IN 3/26/2019, 10:17 pm
Deus X
othershoe1030 wrote: The only way out of this is to beat him in 2020. I keep remembering that even Nixon was re-elected and that is a sobering thought.
Not to worry, the major Watergate investigations didn't really start until after Nixon was re-elected. Trump might not even be on the ticket in 2020.
55 Re: THE MUELLER REPORT IS IN 3/27/2019, 8:58 am
zsomething
othershoe1030 wrote:After two years of waiting for the Mueller Report (and still waiting) for it to be released, I was shocked with disbelief Sunday to hear Bill Barr's ultra-partisan image of what Mueller's report contains. After taking a few thousand breaths I have come to the conclusion that the Barr memo is giving DJT the ability to establish in the public's mind that he is clean as a whistle, nothing to see here, it was in fact all a hoax. Once this image is clearly fixed in voters' minds it will take something really disturbingly horrendous happening (not unimaginable) to make people wake up to the fact that this guy has to go.
After all the reports of the meetings his staff had with the Russians, and lied about it, the business deals he lied about, the unexplainable Trump Hotel in DC (how could that have happened?) to say nothing of 45 himself explaining to Lester Holt his reasons for firing Comey (talk about having his intentions on tape!) disappointing does not begin to describe my reaction to Barr's memo.
Now, he is on the offense, throwing a tantrum, attacking investigative reporters and the press in general, anyone in congress who dared to investigate his campaign or him, etc. etc. he has become a whirling dervish of disruption.
He is truly a frightening political figure. The only way out of this is to beat him in 2020. I keep remembering that even Nixon was re-elected and that is a sobering thought.
Yep.
There have been divisive presidents before, but that was usually not something they wanted. A lot of people hated Dubya (I oughtta know, i was one of 'em), there were a lot of people who hated Obama (I wasn't one of 'em but I dealt with many of 'em... including our resident shart-pump troll who still cries about him like Obama crapped in his Easter basket)... but neither Dubya nor Obama wanted that. Imperfect as they were about it, they tried being the president of everyone.
Trump isn't doing that at all. Trump is not interested in being anybody's president... he just wants the adulation of his cult, which he's whittling down to a hardened fanatical core. He's actually trying to radicalize the right-wing because he wants violence. Honestly, this is the only reason he does a lot of the shit he does. He labels people who don't like him "enemies of the people," as if the only "people" are the ones who approve of him. Anyone who doesn't are untermenschen, and should be dealt with violently. Then, if you fight back against that, he claims you're terrorists. Did anyone ever think you'd see a president who labels anti-fascists an enemy of America? That's some crazy shit.
Trump does things like try to overturn everything Obama did just out of spite, and to let all of us who liked Obama know that we're hated. We're enemies. And he's working harder and harder to find ways that he'll be allowed to punish us in some way. Right now it's just things like "I'm gonna cut off federal aid to California when they have fires because they're a liberal state" or "I'm gonna cut off funding to libraries and the arts because liberals like those things," etc. But he'll work up to worse things, if he can get the approval of his cult.
If he gets re-elected, he's going to feel like he has the approval to do anything. So will white supremacists, who he clearly plays to.
And the Russians will win. I don't know if Trump's team had it together enough to collaborate with the Russians or not. Mueller's report says they couldn't find enough evidence to make an airtight case of it, and I accept that finding... but it doesn't mean they didn't do it, it just means they can't prove it. And, honestly, that doesn't really matter to me much... what's clear is (A) the Russians did interfere in our election, and even if Trump didn't collude with them, he certainly has never held them accountable for it or retaliated in any way for what was an attack on our democratic process, and (B) he's collaborating with Putin now, by doing everything that Russia wants, from shrugging off the election interference, to making our trade deals benefit them, to making our military moves benefit them, to alienating our allies in favor of Russia, to lifting sanctions and overlooking Putin's actions in the Ukraine, to... you name it. It's hard to think of anything more that Trump could do in favor of Russia.
America's at at crossroads. A 20's-Germany type of crossroads. And Trump has his followers trained to accept anything he does -- even if it harms them -- as long as it "pisses off the liberals." That's what's scary. He's got them so stupid that they'll allow fascism to storm in, just out of spite. They'll not only let America become a dictatorship, they'll fight against anyone who tries to stop it... while still proclaiming themselves to be the "patriots."
56 Re: THE MUELLER REPORT IS IN 3/27/2019, 9:38 am
Telstar
zsomething wrote:othershoe1030 wrote:After two years of waiting for the Mueller Report (and still waiting) for it to be released, I was shocked with disbelief Sunday to hear Bill Barr's ultra-partisan image of what Mueller's report contains. After taking a few thousand breaths I have come to the conclusion that the Barr memo is giving DJT the ability to establish in the public's mind that he is clean as a whistle, nothing to see here, it was in fact all a hoax. Once this image is clearly fixed in voters' minds it will take something really disturbingly horrendous happening (not unimaginable) to make people wake up to the fact that this guy has to go.
After all the reports of the meetings his staff had with the Russians, and lied about it, the business deals he lied about, the unexplainable Trump Hotel in DC (how could that have happened?) to say nothing of 45 himself explaining to Lester Holt his reasons for firing Comey (talk about having his intentions on tape!) disappointing does not begin to describe my reaction to Barr's memo.
Now, he is on the offense, throwing a tantrum, attacking investigative reporters and the press in general, anyone in congress who dared to investigate his campaign or him, etc. etc. he has become a whirling dervish of disruption.
He is truly a frightening political figure. The only way out of this is to beat him in 2020. I keep remembering that even Nixon was re-elected and that is a sobering thought.
Yep.
There have been divisive presidents before, but that was usually not something they wanted. A lot of people hated Dubya (I oughtta know, i was one of 'em), there were a lot of people who hated Obama (I wasn't one of 'em but I dealt with many of 'em... including our resident shart-pump troll who still cries about him like Obama crapped in his Easter basket)... but neither Dubya nor Obama wanted that. Imperfect as they were about it, they tried being the president of everyone.
Trump isn't doing that at all. Trump is not interested in being anybody's president... he just wants the adulation of his cult, which he's whittling down to a hardened fanatical core. He's actually trying to radicalize the right-wing because he wants violence. Honestly, this is the only reason he does a lot of the shit he does. He labels people who don't like him "enemies of the people," as if the only "people" are the ones who approve of him. Anyone who doesn't are untermenschen, and should be dealt with violently. Then, if you fight back against that, he claims you're terrorists. Did anyone ever think you'd see a president who labels anti-fascists an enemy of America? That's some crazy shit.
Trump does things like try to overturn everything Obama did just out of spite, and to let all of us who liked Obama know that we're hated. We're enemies. And he's working harder and harder to find ways that he'll be allowed to punish us in some way. Right now it's just things like "I'm gonna cut off federal aid to California when they have fires because they're a liberal state" or "I'm gonna cut off funding to libraries and the arts because liberals like those things," etc. But he'll work up to worse things, if he can get the approval of his cult.
If he gets re-elected, he's going to feel like he has the approval to do anything. So will white supremacists, who he clearly plays to.
And the Russians will win. I don't know if Trump's team had it together enough to collaborate with the Russians or not. Mueller's report says they couldn't find enough evidence to make an airtight case of it, and I accept that finding... but it doesn't mean they didn't do it, it just means they can't prove it. And, honestly, that doesn't really matter to me much... what's clear is (A) the Russians did interfere in our election, and even if Trump didn't collude with them, he certainly has never held them accountable for it or retaliated in any way for what was an attack on our democratic process, and (B) he's collaborating with Putin now, by doing everything that Russia wants, from shrugging off the election interference, to making our trade deals benefit them, to making our military moves benefit them, to alienating our allies in favor of Russia, to lifting sanctions and overlooking Putin's actions in the Ukraine, to... you name it. It's hard to think of anything more that Trump could do in favor of Russia.
America's at at crossroads. A 20's-Germany type of crossroads. And Trump has his followers trained to accept anything he does -- even if it harms them -- as long as it "pisses off the liberals." That's what's scary. He's got them so stupid that they'll allow fascism to storm in, just out of spite. They'll not only let America become a dictatorship, they'll fight against anyone who tries to stop it... while still proclaiming themselves to be the "patriots."
57 Re: THE MUELLER REPORT IS IN 3/27/2019, 10:44 am
PkrBum
https://www.wsj.com/amp/articles/mueller-is-done-now-probe-the-real-scandal-11553468801
Attorney General William Barr has reported to Congress that special counsel Robert Mueller has cleared President Trump and his campaign team of claims of conspiring with Russia during the 2016 election. This is more than an exoneration. It’s a searing indictment of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, as well as a reminder of the need to know the story behind the bureau’s corrosive investigation.
Mr. Mueller’s report likely doesn’t put it that way, but it’s the logical conclusion of his no-collusion finding. The FBI unleashed its powers on a candidate for the office of the U.S. presidency, an astonishing first. It did so on the incredible grounds that the campaign had conspired to aid a foreign government. And it used the most aggressive tools in its arsenal—surveillance of U.S. citizens, secret subpoenas of phone records and documents, even human informants.
The wreckage is everywhere. The nation has been engulfed in conspiracy theories for years. A presidency was hemmed in by the threat of a special counsel. Citizens have gone to jail not for conspiracy, but for after-the-fact interactions with Mr. Mueller’s team. Dozens more have spent enormous amounts of money and time defending their reputations.
None of this should ever have happened absent highly compelling evidence—from the start—of wrongdoing. Yet from what we know, the FBI operated on the basis of an overheard conversation of third-tier campaign aide George Papadopoulos, as well as a wild “dossier” financed by the rival presidential campaign. Mr. Mueller’s no-collusion finding amounts to a judgment that there never was any evidence. The Papadopoulos claim was thin, the dossier a fabrication.
Which is all the more reason Americans now deserve a full accounting of the missteps of former FBI Director James Comey and his team—in part so that this never happens again. That includes the following: What “evidence” did the FBI have in totality? What efforts did the bureau take to verify it? Did it corroborate anything before launching its probe? What role did political players play? How aware was the FBI that it was being gulled into a dirty-trick operation, and if so, how did it justify proceeding? How intrusive were the FBI methods? And who was harmed?
If Mr. Mueller has done his job properly, his report will address some of this. His team would have had to look into the sources of the allegations as part of determining the documents’ (lack of) veracity. A Mueller report that doesn’t mention the dossier and its political provenance, or questionable news stories used to justify surveillance warrants, for instance, is a report that is playing politics.
The fuller accounting will come only through total disclosure of FBI and Justice Department probe documents. Mr. Trump promised that disclosure in September but has yet to follow through. That transparency is now a necessity. The Mueller report is only half the story. With the special-counsel probe at an end, it’s time to go back the beginning—to the documents that explain its origin. Only then will Americans have the full story of the Russia-collusion narrative.
Attorney General William Barr has reported to Congress that special counsel Robert Mueller has cleared President Trump and his campaign team of claims of conspiring with Russia during the 2016 election. This is more than an exoneration. It’s a searing indictment of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, as well as a reminder of the need to know the story behind the bureau’s corrosive investigation.
Mr. Mueller’s report likely doesn’t put it that way, but it’s the logical conclusion of his no-collusion finding. The FBI unleashed its powers on a candidate for the office of the U.S. presidency, an astonishing first. It did so on the incredible grounds that the campaign had conspired to aid a foreign government. And it used the most aggressive tools in its arsenal—surveillance of U.S. citizens, secret subpoenas of phone records and documents, even human informants.
The wreckage is everywhere. The nation has been engulfed in conspiracy theories for years. A presidency was hemmed in by the threat of a special counsel. Citizens have gone to jail not for conspiracy, but for after-the-fact interactions with Mr. Mueller’s team. Dozens more have spent enormous amounts of money and time defending their reputations.
None of this should ever have happened absent highly compelling evidence—from the start—of wrongdoing. Yet from what we know, the FBI operated on the basis of an overheard conversation of third-tier campaign aide George Papadopoulos, as well as a wild “dossier” financed by the rival presidential campaign. Mr. Mueller’s no-collusion finding amounts to a judgment that there never was any evidence. The Papadopoulos claim was thin, the dossier a fabrication.
Which is all the more reason Americans now deserve a full accounting of the missteps of former FBI Director James Comey and his team—in part so that this never happens again. That includes the following: What “evidence” did the FBI have in totality? What efforts did the bureau take to verify it? Did it corroborate anything before launching its probe? What role did political players play? How aware was the FBI that it was being gulled into a dirty-trick operation, and if so, how did it justify proceeding? How intrusive were the FBI methods? And who was harmed?
If Mr. Mueller has done his job properly, his report will address some of this. His team would have had to look into the sources of the allegations as part of determining the documents’ (lack of) veracity. A Mueller report that doesn’t mention the dossier and its political provenance, or questionable news stories used to justify surveillance warrants, for instance, is a report that is playing politics.
The fuller accounting will come only through total disclosure of FBI and Justice Department probe documents. Mr. Trump promised that disclosure in September but has yet to follow through. That transparency is now a necessity. The Mueller report is only half the story. With the special-counsel probe at an end, it’s time to go back the beginning—to the documents that explain its origin. Only then will Americans have the full story of the Russia-collusion narrative.
58 Re: THE MUELLER REPORT IS IN 3/27/2019, 11:02 am
RealLindaL
zsomething wrote:othershoe1030 wrote:After two years of waiting for the Mueller Report (and still waiting) for it to be released, I was shocked with disbelief Sunday to hear Bill Barr's ultra-partisan image of what Mueller's report contains. After taking a few thousand breaths I have come to the conclusion that the Barr memo is giving DJT the ability to establish in the public's mind that he is clean as a whistle, nothing to see here, it was in fact all a hoax. Once this image is clearly fixed in voters' minds it will take something really disturbingly horrendous happening (not unimaginable) to make people wake up to the fact that this guy has to go.
After all the reports of the meetings his staff had with the Russians, and lied about it, the business deals he lied about, the unexplainable Trump Hotel in DC (how could that have happened?) to say nothing of 45 himself explaining to Lester Holt his reasons for firing Comey (talk about having his intentions on tape!) disappointing does not begin to describe my reaction to Barr's memo.
Now, he is on the offense, throwing a tantrum, attacking investigative reporters and the press in general, anyone in congress who dared to investigate his campaign or him, etc. etc. he has become a whirling dervish of disruption.
He is truly a frightening political figure. The only way out of this is to beat him in 2020. I keep remembering that even Nixon was re-elected and that is a sobering thought.
Yep.
There have been divisive presidents before, but that was usually not something they wanted. A lot of people hated Dubya (I oughtta know, i was one of 'em), there were a lot of people who hated Obama (I wasn't one of 'em but I dealt with many of 'em... including our resident shart-pump troll who still cries about him like Obama crapped in his Easter basket)... but neither Dubya nor Obama wanted that. Imperfect as they were about it, they tried being the president of everyone.
Trump isn't doing that at all. Trump is not interested in being anybody's president... he just wants the adulation of his cult, which he's whittling down to a hardened fanatical core. He's actually trying to radicalize the right-wing because he wants violence. Honestly, this is the only reason he does a lot of the shit he does. He labels people who don't like him "enemies of the people," as if the only "people" are the ones who approve of him. Anyone who doesn't are untermenschen, and should be dealt with violently. Then, if you fight back against that, he claims you're terrorists. Did anyone ever think you'd see a president who labels anti-fascists an enemy of America? That's some crazy shit.
Trump does things like try to overturn everything Obama did just out of spite, and to let all of us who liked Obama know that we're hated. We're enemies. And he's working harder and harder to find ways that he'll be allowed to punish us in some way. Right now it's just things like "I'm gonna cut off federal aid to California when they have fires because they're a liberal state" or "I'm gonna cut off funding to libraries and the arts because liberals like those things," etc. But he'll work up to worse things, if he can get the approval of his cult.
If he gets re-elected, he's going to feel like he has the approval to do anything. So will white supremacists, who he clearly plays to.
And the Russians will win. I don't know if Trump's team had it together enough to collaborate with the Russians or not. Mueller's report says they couldn't find enough evidence to make an airtight case of it, and I accept that finding... but it doesn't mean they didn't do it, it just means they can't prove it. And, honestly, that doesn't really matter to me much... what's clear is (A) the Russians did interfere in our election, and even if Trump didn't collude with them, he certainly has never held them accountable for it or retaliated in any way for what was an attack on our democratic process, and (B) he's collaborating with Putin now, by doing everything that Russia wants, from shrugging off the election interference, to making our trade deals benefit them, to making our military moves benefit them, to alienating our allies in favor of Russia, to lifting sanctions and overlooking Putin's actions in the Ukraine, to... you name it. It's hard to think of anything more that Trump could do in favor of Russia.
America's at at crossroads. A 20's-Germany type of crossroads. And Trump has his followers trained to accept anything he does -- even if it harms them -- as long as it "pisses off the liberals." That's what's scary. He's got them so stupid that they'll allow fascism to storm in, just out of spite. They'll not only let America become a dictatorship, they'll fight against anyone who tries to stop it... while still proclaiming themselves to be the "patriots."
59 Re: THE MUELLER REPORT IS IN 3/27/2019, 12:00 pm
othershoe1030
It is often repeated that the Democrats, Hillary in particular paid for the Steel Dossier. While this is where funding came from in the end, it should not be forgotten that the origin of the collection of information was from an Anti-Trump group of Republicans.
So, if you want to go back to the beginning of this, you have to look at the conservative group that first commissioned Steel. Additionally, to approach the results, the findings of the Mueller investigation through the lens of Barr's memo is going about this the wrong way. To say "nothing like this should ever happen again." is ridiculous. Why not just say we are supposed to take anything the president says at face value and never hold that person responsible or hold them up to objective facts? It is not the fault of the FBI that many meetings took place between Russians and members of the Trump team. The FBI has very strict regulations that cover how they decide to open an investigation. In a case such as this, involving players at the national level they would be even more scrupulous.
To basically blame the FBI or Mueller for finding numerous contacts and lies regarding those contacts between Russians and Trump team members is like blaming a doctor for discovering cancer in his patient.
Remember this too, the FBI went to the Trump campaign with warnings about possible Russian influences in their campaign and they blew it off. They were unconcerned to have Russians mucking about in their business.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/fbi-warned-trump-2016-russians-would-try-infiltrate-his-campaign-n830596
The origin of the Steel Dossier.
Oct. 27, 2017
992
WASHINGTON — The Washington Free Beacon, a conservative website funded by a major Republican donor, first hired the research firm that months later produced for Democrats the salacious dossier describing ties between Donald J. Trump and the Russian government, the website said on Friday.
The Free Beacon, funded in large part by the New York hedge fund billionaire Paul Singer, hired the firm, Fusion GPS, in 2015 to unearth damaging information about several Republican presidential candidates, including Mr. Trump. But The Free Beacon told the firm to stop doing research on Mr. Trump in May 2016, as Mr. Trump was clinching the Republican nomination.
Hillary Clinton’s campaign and the Democratic National Committee had begun paying Fusion GPS in April for research that eventually became the basis for the dossier.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/27/us/politics/trump-dossier-paul-singer.html
One more thing to keep in mind is that Mueller is holding evidence to a very high standard, an air tight set of provable facts that would likely lead to a criminal conviction. He is not going to overstate anything. It is really a case of unfounded fantastical wishful thinking to state that his report not only totally cleared Individual One from wrong doing but simultaneously indicted the FBI as having overstepped its bounds is just unreal.
So, if you want to go back to the beginning of this, you have to look at the conservative group that first commissioned Steel. Additionally, to approach the results, the findings of the Mueller investigation through the lens of Barr's memo is going about this the wrong way. To say "nothing like this should ever happen again." is ridiculous. Why not just say we are supposed to take anything the president says at face value and never hold that person responsible or hold them up to objective facts? It is not the fault of the FBI that many meetings took place between Russians and members of the Trump team. The FBI has very strict regulations that cover how they decide to open an investigation. In a case such as this, involving players at the national level they would be even more scrupulous.
To basically blame the FBI or Mueller for finding numerous contacts and lies regarding those contacts between Russians and Trump team members is like blaming a doctor for discovering cancer in his patient.
Remember this too, the FBI went to the Trump campaign with warnings about possible Russian influences in their campaign and they blew it off. They were unconcerned to have Russians mucking about in their business.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/fbi-warned-trump-2016-russians-would-try-infiltrate-his-campaign-n830596
The origin of the Steel Dossier.
Oct. 27, 2017
992
WASHINGTON — The Washington Free Beacon, a conservative website funded by a major Republican donor, first hired the research firm that months later produced for Democrats the salacious dossier describing ties between Donald J. Trump and the Russian government, the website said on Friday.
The Free Beacon, funded in large part by the New York hedge fund billionaire Paul Singer, hired the firm, Fusion GPS, in 2015 to unearth damaging information about several Republican presidential candidates, including Mr. Trump. But The Free Beacon told the firm to stop doing research on Mr. Trump in May 2016, as Mr. Trump was clinching the Republican nomination.
Hillary Clinton’s campaign and the Democratic National Committee had begun paying Fusion GPS in April for research that eventually became the basis for the dossier.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/27/us/politics/trump-dossier-paul-singer.html
One more thing to keep in mind is that Mueller is holding evidence to a very high standard, an air tight set of provable facts that would likely lead to a criminal conviction. He is not going to overstate anything. It is really a case of unfounded fantastical wishful thinking to state that his report not only totally cleared Individual One from wrong doing but simultaneously indicted the FBI as having overstepped its bounds is just unreal.
60 Re: THE MUELLER REPORT IS IN 3/27/2019, 12:08 pm
PkrBum
Steele and his russian counterintelligence contacts was not hired until hillary and the dnc got involved.
61 Re: THE MUELLER REPORT IS IN 3/27/2019, 12:57 pm
Telstar
PkrBum wrote:Steele and his russian counterintelligence contacts was not hired until hillary and the dnc got involved.
62 Re: THE MUELLER REPORT IS IN 3/27/2019, 2:17 pm
othershoe1030
PkrBum wrote:Steele and his russian counterintelligence contacts was not hired until hillary and the dnc got involved.
Technically, according to this NYT's article, Steele was not hired until after it became apparent that Trump would win the nomination and Marco Rubio discontinued his relationship with them. Steele was hired by Fusion GPS, who then hired Steele for his familiarity with the Russian underworld. It had been his focus as a MI6 spy.
I think it is important to make it clear that "all this Russia stuff" did not materialize as a result of Hillary hiring Steele. DJT has wanted to build his tower in Moscow for decades and has had many business ties, loans, sales of property in this country, etc. for years now. His involvements with Russia are not made up, nor are they a fiction created by Hillary.
During the Republican primaries, a research firm called Fusion GPS was hired by The Washington Free Beacon, a conservative website, to unearth potentially damaging information about Mr. Trump. The Free Beacon — which was funded by a major donor supporting Mr. Trump’s rival for the party’s nomination, Senator Marco Rubio of Florida — told Fusion GPS to stop doing research on Mr. Trump in May 2016, as Mr. Trump was clinching the Republican nomination.
After Mr. Trump secured the nomination, Fusion GPS was hired on behalf of Mrs. Clinton’s campaign and the D.N.C. by their law firm, Perkins Coie, to compile research about Mr. Trump, his businesses and associates — including possible connections with Russia. It was at that point that Fusion GPS hired Mr. Steele, who has deep sourcing in Russia, to gather information.
In October, Mr. Trump said in a Twitter post that his party was outraged at Mrs. Clinton’s involvement.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/25/us/politics/steele-dossier-trump-expained.html
63 Re: THE MUELLER REPORT IS IN 3/27/2019, 10:53 pm
bigdog
http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/03/polls-trump-approval-unchanged-mueller-investigation-conclusions-barr-letter.html
Bill Barr's summary has changed no minds so far, according to two new polls. Apparently, those of us who still have intact brains aren't fooled by a summary of a report by a political partisan. Those whose brains aren't intact probably don't even know what the Mueller report was, but they're just happy the POTUS is smiling today.
After all, he's decided to end Obamacare completely and to take away all the funding from those non-productive little special Olympics kids. He's having a great day.
Bill Barr's summary has changed no minds so far, according to two new polls. Apparently, those of us who still have intact brains aren't fooled by a summary of a report by a political partisan. Those whose brains aren't intact probably don't even know what the Mueller report was, but they're just happy the POTUS is smiling today.
After all, he's decided to end Obamacare completely and to take away all the funding from those non-productive little special Olympics kids. He's having a great day.
64 Re: THE MUELLER REPORT IS IN 3/27/2019, 11:03 pm
PkrBum
Either hold those responsible for the unprecedented act of surveilling the opposition campaign... the actors in the fbi, doj, cia, and all the way to the obama admin... or trump should start the same immediately.
One or the other. One set of rules.
One or the other. One set of rules.
65 Re: THE MUELLER REPORT IS IN 3/28/2019, 12:08 am
Telstar
PkrBum wrote:Either hold those responsible for the unprecedented act of surveilling the opposition campaign... the actors in the fbi, doj, cia, and all the way to the obama admin... or trump should start the same immediately.
One or the other. One set of rules.
66 Re: THE MUELLER REPORT IS IN 3/28/2019, 1:30 pm
othershoe1030
PkrBum wrote:Either hold those responsible for the unprecedented act of surveilling the opposition campaign... the actors in the fbi, doj, cia, and all the way to the obama admin... or trump should start the same immediately.
One or the other. One set of rules.
Who we need to hold responsible for unprecedented acts is the White House. Never have so many administration officials and campaign staff had so many unreported contacts with an adversarial government than this one. The intelligence agencies would have been negligent had they not looked into this.
The Republican Congress should be looked into for failing to perform any meaningful oversight into this administration's relationship with Russia.
The Trump administration totally disregarded the warnings from Sally Yates re Michael Flynn's lying about his contact with Russians, thus putting him in a position of being blackmailed by Putin.
The intelligence agencies are trying to protect our country from foreign influence of this type and the Trump administration disregards their findings at every turn (See Helsinki statements).
The intelligence agencies (as a matter of acceptable behavior ) do not take their lead from the Executive Branch but investigate situations independently as needed. To suggest that Trump should direct them to start basically an investigation of his enemies is to cross the line of separation between the administration and the agencies. That is the way it is done in totalitarian regimes, not in a democracy.
The Intelligence agencies did, and are doing, their job. Let's see the Mueller Report.
67 Re: THE MUELLER REPORT IS IN 3/28/2019, 1:39 pm
PkrBum
Secret fisa warrants were obtained by fraud (steele dossier). It's one thing to investigate claims... entirely another to fabricate probable cause to surveil your political foes.
68 Re: THE MUELLER REPORT IS IN 3/28/2019, 4:02 pm
othershoe1030
PkrBum wrote:Secret fisa warrants were obtained by fraud (steele dossier). It's one thing to investigate claims... entirely another to fabricate probable cause to surveil your political foes.
The claim that the FISA warrant was obtained via fraud is a TRUMPED UP ALLEGATION according to news sources. The claim is just another imaginary tid-bit to calm the fears of Trumpists who will apparently believe anything that serves to maintain their blind devotion to the most corrupt administration in American history.
By Ken Dilanian
WASHINGTON — President Donald Trump and his allies are claiming that the partial contents of a secret national security "FISA" warrant, released Saturday, vindicate their claim that special counsel Robert Mueller's Russia investigation was improperly launched on the basis of a speculative opposition research document paid for by Democrats.
The Trump camp says the probe has its roots in the "Trump dossier" compiled by former British spy Christopher Steele, which alleges collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia.
"So we now find out that it was indeed the unverified and Fake Dirty Dossier, that was paid for by Crooked Hillary Clinton and the DNC, that was knowingly & falsely submitted to FISA and which was responsible for starting the totally conflicted and discredited Mueller Witch Hunt!" the president wrote in a tweet Monday morning.
Trump also continues to suggest that the electronic surveillance of his one-time campaign aide, Carter Page, which was authorized by the FISA warrant, launched the Russia probe.
Both of these assertions are false.
Here is why.
The Russia investigation wasn't launched because of Carter Page.
The heavily redacted documents released Saturday comprise an application to, and subsequent renewals by, judges on the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court allowing the FBI to investigate Page, a foreign policy aide to the Trump campaign. But it's already been established by the House Intelligence Committee that the Russia investigation began after the FBI learned that another campaign aide, George Papadopoulos, had been approached by a Russian agent. The agent told Papadopoulos the Russians had incriminating information about Hillary Clinton, including emails, according to court documents.. Papadopoulos then mentioned to an Australian diplomat that the Russians had "dirt" on Clinton, the Australians contacted the U.S. government, and the FBI began to take a look.
Image: Justice Department And Intelligence Officials Brief The Bipartisan Gang Of Eight Regarding Confidential FBI Source In Russia ProbeHouse Intelligence Committee ranking member Rep. Adam Schiff (D-CA) (C) heads for a meeting of the members of the so-called 'Gang of Eight' and intelligence officials at the U.S. Capitol on May 24, 2018 in Washington, DC.Chip Somodevilla / Getty Images file
The so-called dossier formed only a smart part of the evidence used to meet the legal burden of establishing "probable cause" that Page was an agent of Russia.
The released documents contain dozens of pages that are entirely blacked out. People who have read them, including Rep. Adam Schiff, the ranking Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee, say they contain secret evidence establishing ties between Page and Russians — evidence that goes beyond what was included in the dossier compiled by Christopher Steele. Frank Figliuzzi, the former FBI counterintelligence chief who is now an NBC News contributor, says that likely includes reporting from human sources and intercepted communications. Page, it should be said, denies that he was an agent of Russia and has not been charged with a crime.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/crime-courts/why-team-trump-wrong-about-carter-page-dossier-secret-warrant-n893666
69 Re: THE MUELLER REPORT IS IN 3/28/2019, 4:17 pm
PkrBum
See the date of your article.
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/justice-department-worried-about-bias-of-confidential-source-in-fisa-application-based-on-chiristopher-steele-dossier
The Justice Department fretted about the "possible bias" of a source being used in a FISA application to obtain warrants against Trump campaign associate Carter Page, but the FBI pushed ahead anyway, text messages show.
Christopher Steele, the former British spy and author of the so-called Trump dossier, appears to be the source being referred to. He was being paid by Fusion GPS, which was itself being funded by the Clinton campaign and the Democratic National Committee through the Perkins Coie law firm, after initial financing from Republican opponents of Trump. Steele is the only known confidential source to have been cited in the FISA application.
The text messages, between then-Deputy Director of the FBI Andrew McCabe, who was later fired, and former FBI attorney Lisa Page — who was having an affair with FBI agent Peter Strzok — were obtained by Fox News.
They reveal that Stuart Evans, deputy assistant attorney general of DOJ's National Security Division at the time, had "continued concerns" about the "possible bias" of a source being used in the FISA application but that Lisa Page had a sense of urgency about the FISA application being submitted quickly and was considering ending "the hold up" with "a high-level push."
"OI [Office of Intelligence] now has a robust explanation re any possible bias of the chs [Confidential Human Source] in the package," Page texted McCabe on Oct. 12, 2016. "Don’t know what the holdup is now, other than Stu’s continued concerns. Strong operational need to have in place before Monday if at all possible, which means to ct tomorrow. I communication you and boss’s green light to Sty earlier, and just sent an email to Stu asking where things stood. This might take a high-level push. Will keep you posted.”
Page said she would press the issue with Evans by "invoking" McCabe's name. Further texts show that a meeting would eventually be set up including then-Deputy Attorney General Sally Yates at the direction of the White House. The FISA application, relaying heavily on Steele's dossier, would be submitted to the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court just days later.
Then-Director of the FBI James Comey ultimately signed off on the application to the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court for approval to surveil Carter Page. It was dated nine days after the Page-McCabe texts: Oct. 21 2016.
The specific funding of Steele's dossier was never mentioned to the FISA court, either during that first application or during three subsequent FISA renewals. Steele’s anti-Trump fervor and determination to provide his dossier to the media and members of the U.S. government later became well known.
The FBI eventually cut Steele off as a confidential source because he disclosed his relationship with the bureau to the media, but it continued to use his dossier in FISA renewals.
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/justice-department-worried-about-bias-of-confidential-source-in-fisa-application-based-on-chiristopher-steele-dossier
The Justice Department fretted about the "possible bias" of a source being used in a FISA application to obtain warrants against Trump campaign associate Carter Page, but the FBI pushed ahead anyway, text messages show.
Christopher Steele, the former British spy and author of the so-called Trump dossier, appears to be the source being referred to. He was being paid by Fusion GPS, which was itself being funded by the Clinton campaign and the Democratic National Committee through the Perkins Coie law firm, after initial financing from Republican opponents of Trump. Steele is the only known confidential source to have been cited in the FISA application.
The text messages, between then-Deputy Director of the FBI Andrew McCabe, who was later fired, and former FBI attorney Lisa Page — who was having an affair with FBI agent Peter Strzok — were obtained by Fox News.
They reveal that Stuart Evans, deputy assistant attorney general of DOJ's National Security Division at the time, had "continued concerns" about the "possible bias" of a source being used in the FISA application but that Lisa Page had a sense of urgency about the FISA application being submitted quickly and was considering ending "the hold up" with "a high-level push."
"OI [Office of Intelligence] now has a robust explanation re any possible bias of the chs [Confidential Human Source] in the package," Page texted McCabe on Oct. 12, 2016. "Don’t know what the holdup is now, other than Stu’s continued concerns. Strong operational need to have in place before Monday if at all possible, which means to ct tomorrow. I communication you and boss’s green light to Sty earlier, and just sent an email to Stu asking where things stood. This might take a high-level push. Will keep you posted.”
Page said she would press the issue with Evans by "invoking" McCabe's name. Further texts show that a meeting would eventually be set up including then-Deputy Attorney General Sally Yates at the direction of the White House. The FISA application, relaying heavily on Steele's dossier, would be submitted to the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court just days later.
Then-Director of the FBI James Comey ultimately signed off on the application to the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court for approval to surveil Carter Page. It was dated nine days after the Page-McCabe texts: Oct. 21 2016.
The specific funding of Steele's dossier was never mentioned to the FISA court, either during that first application or during three subsequent FISA renewals. Steele’s anti-Trump fervor and determination to provide his dossier to the media and members of the U.S. government later became well known.
The FBI eventually cut Steele off as a confidential source because he disclosed his relationship with the bureau to the media, but it continued to use his dossier in FISA renewals.
70 Re: THE MUELLER REPORT IS IN 3/28/2019, 4:44 pm
knothead
OS made this astute conclusion! The only way out of this is to beat him in 2020.
71 Re: THE MUELLER REPORT IS IN 3/28/2019, 6:11 pm
RealLindaL
[quote="othershoe1030"]
The claim that the FISA warrant was obtained via fraud is a TRUMPED UP ALLEGATION according to news sources. The claim is just another imaginary tid-bit to calm the fears of Trumpists who will apparently believe anything that serves to maintain their blind devotion to the most corrupt administration in American history.
THANK YOU, othershoe, for telling it EXACTLY like it is, and I do mean exactly
TRUMPISTS ARE DUNCES.
The claim that the FISA warrant was obtained via fraud is a TRUMPED UP ALLEGATION according to news sources. The claim is just another imaginary tid-bit to calm the fears of Trumpists who will apparently believe anything that serves to maintain their blind devotion to the most corrupt administration in American history.
THANK YOU, othershoe, for telling it EXACTLY like it is, and I do mean exactly
TRUMPISTS ARE DUNCES.
72 Re: THE MUELLER REPORT IS IN 3/28/2019, 8:23 pm
bigdog
And yet, all the polls are the same. Trumpsters are still just as stupid and the rest of us still know better.
Nothing's changed.
I refuse to argue the Mueller report until we see the Mueller report.
Nothing's changed.
I refuse to argue the Mueller report until we see the Mueller report.
73 Re: THE MUELLER REPORT IS IN 3/28/2019, 10:29 pm
Floridatexan
So, if I'm being investigated for murder, I get to bring charges against you for investigating me for murder. OK. Got it. For someone who claims to not support Drumpfelstiltskin and his criminal actions...
74 Re: THE MUELLER REPORT IS IN 3/29/2019, 12:31 am
zsomething
Floridatexan wrote:
So, if I'm being investigated for murder, I get to bring charges against you for investigating me for murder. OK. Got it. For someone who claims to not support Drumpfelstiltskin and his criminal actions...
Amazing, ain't it? I've never seen a "libertarian" fight harder to protect the government from being looked at for corruption than lil' Pckr. He doesn't like Trump, supposedly, but he protects him like his precious baby. He's such a poser. It's like we can't see his actions while he talks his bullshit. He'd be embarrassed if he had enough sense, but it's easier to kill a coward than it is to shame him. I know a lot of stupid people, but he still stuns me. Oh well...
It's typical, though. Trump's whole cult is flat-out brainwashed. They're creepy to watch, just running total nonsense code.
75 Re: THE MUELLER REPORT IS IN 3/29/2019, 1:07 am
zsomething
Speakin' of said libertarian-poser, it's a bad day for 'im. Even though "Uranium One" is bullshit, he's gonna have to give up yammering about it now that Trump's trying to give secret nuclear info to the Saudis.
https://www.npr.org/2019/02/19/695954246/trump-officials-tried-to-rush-nuclear-technology-to-saudis-house-panel-finds
O' course, the Saudis claim they need nuclear power plants for power. Considering they're famous for living over one of the planet's biggest lakes of oil, that's just totally plausible, right?
Right-wingers would flip out and hit the streets if a Democrat did anything remotely like this -- they're still pissed at imaginary deals -- but watch 'em defend Trump's actions. Sure sign they're a damn cult...
https://www.npr.org/2019/02/19/695954246/trump-officials-tried-to-rush-nuclear-technology-to-saudis-house-panel-finds
The Trump administration sought to rush the transfer of American nuclear technology to Saudi Arabia in potential violation of the law, a new report from the House Oversight and Reform Committee alleges.
Committee Chairman Elijah Cummings' staff issued an "interim staff" report Tuesday, citing "multiple whistleblowers" who raised ethical and legal concerns about the process.
"They have warned about political appointees ignoring directives from top ethics advisers at the White House who repeatedly and unsuccessfully ordered senior Trump administration officials to halt their efforts," the report states. "They have also warned of conflicts of interest among top White House advisers that could implicate federal criminal statutes."
For about seven months in 2016, including during the presidential transition, Flynn served as an adviser to IP3 International, a private company seeking to build nuclear plants in Saudi Arabia.
The whistleblowers told the committee that Flynn continued to advocate for IP3's plan even after he joined the White House as the president's national security adviser in 2017.
The Atomic Energy Act requires that Congress approve any transfer of nuclear technology to a foreign country. The committee's report states that a senior director at the National Security Council (NSC), Derek Harvey, "reportedly ignored ... warnings and insisted that the decision to transfer nuclear technology to Saudi Arabia had already been made."
The NSC's lawyers realized that Flynn had a possible conflict of interest that could violate the law, the whistleblowers said, and told NSC staff to stop working on the nuclear technology transfer plan. Despite Flynn's firing in February 2017, the plan appeared to continue to progress with Barrack's support.
The committee announced that it intends to launch an investigation into this matter "to determine whether the actions being pursued by the Trump administration are in the national security interests of the United States, or, rather, serve those who stand to gain financially as a result of this potential change in U.S. foreign policy."
Shortly after the release of the report, House Intelligence Committee Chairman Adam Schiff, D-Calif., announced that his panel would be coordinating with Cummings' staff to explore these allegations.
Tuesday's disclosure of a plan to sell nuclear technology comes as the United States considers its relationship with the Saudi government in the wake of the killing of writer Jamal Khashoggi.
Following his death, the House and Senate have both passed resolutions to limit U.S. involvement in the Saudi-led coalition fighting in the Yemeni civil war. The Senate also passed a resolution by voice vote — reflecting unanimity — that was fashioned to "hold Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman responsible for the murder of Jamal Khashoggi."
The report also comes as President Trump's son-in-law, Jared Kushner, is scheduled to travel next week for a trip to the Middle East that includes a stop in Riyadh, the Saudi capital.
O' course, the Saudis claim they need nuclear power plants for power. Considering they're famous for living over one of the planet's biggest lakes of oil, that's just totally plausible, right?
Right-wingers would flip out and hit the streets if a Democrat did anything remotely like this -- they're still pissed at imaginary deals -- but watch 'em defend Trump's actions. Sure sign they're a damn cult...
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