Trump now wants to put rich farmers on welfare because he screwed up

President Trump said a long time ago regarding tariffs that he would protect our farmers in a trade war.  And that's exactly what he's doing right now.

But know this.  It won't last long.  And the boon that will come to our economy will more than pay for the paltry twelve billion he's putting up right now to protect our farmers from China's threats.  

China will be coming to the table soon enough.  Hat-in-hand.  Count on it.

And that's exactly what he's doing right now.

Donald Trump has only harmed the American farmer. Any analysis otherwise is probably someone who knows no farmers, or understands how important open markets have been for the American farmer. Donald Trump is not an intelligent man who is educated. He is PT Barnum, and he needs suckers. The American farmer is not a sucker, and knows this petulant child was a huge mistake and the damage done may take years and another administration to fix this mess.

2seaoat wrote:And that's exactly what he's doing right now.
  Any analysis otherwise is probably someone who knows no farmers, or understands how important open markets have been for the American farmer.  Donald Trump is not an intelligent man who is educated.  He is PT Barnum, and he needs suckers.  The American farmer is not a sucker, and knows this petulant child was a huge mistake and the damage done may take years and another administration to fix this mess.

Donald Trump has only harmed the American farmer.

It's because you people on the left don't understand what President Trump is doing. Trump is a strong President.  It's understandable all these nattering nabobs of negativity are not used to that after eight years of weak Obama.  President Trump is letting all these other countries know there is a new Sheriff in town and we will not be taken advantage of anymore.   They're getting that message fast.  They know he's not playing around.

The farmers will come out better in the end once Trump gets this world trade thing cleaned up.  Our economy will be far better as will our ability to compete in world trade.  

This is just a short time we are going through with this.  So we kick out a little subsidy to protect our agriculture till we get this thing straightened out.  It will pay dividends far beyond these short term subsidies in the end.   President Trump needs to show these other countries he's serious about protecting American businesses, including farms.  

They will all come to the table.  Hat-in-hand.  Did you see the EU President in DC with Trump today?   China will fall in line soon enough.

The farmers will come out better in the end once Trump gets this world trade thing cleaned up. Our economy will be far better as will our ability to compete in world trade.

What logical specific GATT regulation or trade provision is Trump "cleaning up"? The American farmer was kicking asz because they are not teat suckers but hard working intelligent small business owners who could beat all their global competitors in most items because of the economy of scale of operations, transportation systems, and unbelievable jumps in productivity per acre in the last forty years. There was nothing broke in agricultural trade which was not being addressed with regular push and pull of trade regulation and growing markets when coupled with ethanol programs caused American agricultural commodity prices prosper. So please take the time to explain what was broken in the thriving ag markets before the limited one got in over his head?

The truth is you do not even recognize that nothing was broken in our Agricultural trade policies which were not routine and relatively minor. However, stumbling into steel and aluminum tariffs started this harmful tariff war which now that the Chinese know that the American farmer has turned on trump.......do you think after three thousand years of patience to wait on policy, they are not going to just cut off American agricultural products from their markets......idiocy in policy, and utter ignorance by Trump supporters that this is somehow a closing on a house and Trump is going to get the best deal, by burning down the house.....and then arguing that after burning the house down, it will all be ok........this is simply an intelligence thing.

2seaoat wrote:The farmers will come out better in the end once Trump gets this world trade thing cleaned up.  Our economy will be far better as will our ability to compete in world trade.  

What logical specific GATT regulation or trade provision is Trump "cleaning up"?  The American farmer was kicking asz because they are not teat suckers but hard working intelligent small business owners who could beat all their global competitors in most items because of the economy of scale of operations, transportation systems, and unbelievable jumps in productivity per acre in the last forty years.  There was nothing broke in agricultural trade which was not being addressed with regular push and pull of trade regulation and growing markets when coupled with ethanol programs caused American agricultural commodity prices prosper.  So please take the time to explain what was broken in the thriving ag markets before the limited one got in over his head?

The truth is you do not even recognize that nothing was broken in our Agricultural trade policies which were not routine and relatively minor.  However, stumbling into steel and aluminum tariffs started this harmful tariff war which now that the Chinese know that the American farmer has turned on trump.......do you think after three thousand years of patience to wait on policy, they are not going to just cut off American agricultural products from their markets......idiocy in policy, and utter ignorance by Trump supporters that this is somehow a closing on a house and Trump is going to get the best deal, by burning down the house.....and then arguing that after burning the house down, it will all be ok........this is simply an intelligence thing.

It's about the entire economy and all of our exports.  Not just agriculture.  

But of course the Chinese and others have picked on US agriculture to try and strike back against President Trump's insistence the USA be treated fairly.   So President Trump is taking steps to shortstop those sleazy retaliatory efforts by providing some short term subsidies to our farm industry.  Nothing wrong with that. This is what a strong Presidency looks like.

And as I said it will pay huge dividends in the end.  For the farmers and every other business in America.

No thoughts from you Mr Seaoats on the EU caving in to Trump today?

No thoughts from you Mr Seaoats on the EU caving in to Trump today?



What caving. Please give a specific example of the same which is not sophomoric propaganda for people who really do not understand economics or tariffs. NOTHING was done today other than Trump caving that he will not put a tariff on European cars......and why did he do that.....because the American consumer was beginning to see price increases on car imports, and even those built in America where no car does better than 75% American parts......Dumbkoff is now getting the blowback from American Business that he is an idiot, but at least there are some folks who are easily fooled by empty propaganda.

UPDATE: EU Agrees to Buy More US Soybeans
JULY 25, 2018 04:25 PM

WASHINGTON (AP) - President Donald Trump and European Union leaders announced Wednesday they have agreed to work toward "zero tariffs" and "zero subsidies" on non-automobile goods and would work to resolve U.S. tariffs on steel and aluminum imports that have roiled European markets.

The president, in a hastily called Rose Garden statement with European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker, said the EU had agreed to buy "a lot of soybeans" and increase its imports of liquefied natural gas from the U.S. Juncker, meanwhile, said the U.S. and EU had agreed to hold off on further tariffs as part of trade talks aimed at averting a crippling trade dispute involving the lucrative automobile market.
Trump told reporters it was a "very big day for free and fair trade" and vowed to "resolve the steel and aluminum tariff issues and we will resolve retaliatory tariffs. We have some tariffs that are retaliatory and that will get resolved as part of what we're doing."

"We're starting the negotiation right now, but we know very much where it's going," Trump said after talks with European counterparts.

Juncker said he had an "intention to make a deal today and we made a deal today. We have identified a number of areas on which to work together, work towards zero tariffs on industrial goods. That was my main intention, for those to come down to zero tariffs on industrial goods."

As U.S. soybean farmers have struggled against retaliatory tariffs, Juncker said the EU "can import more soybeans from the U.S. and it will be done." He said the two sides also agreed to work together to reform the World Trade Organization, which Trump has vehemently criticized as being unfair to the U.S.

Earlier in the Oval Office, Juncker told Trump that the two trading partners were "allies, not enemies" and said they needed to work together to address recent frictions involving Trump's threats to impose tariffs on auto imports and EU plans to retaliate.

Trump has placed tariffs on imported steel and aluminum, saying they pose a threat to U.S. national security, an argument that the EU and Canada reject. He has also threatened to slap tariffs on imported cars, trucks and auto parts, potentially targeting imports that last year totaled $335 billion.

The president has repeatedly called the EU - which includes many of the U.S.' oldest and most committed allies - an unfair trading partner and even labeled it a "foe."

The European Union has warned that it will retaliate with tariffs on products worth $20 billion if Trump puts duties on cars and auto parts from Europe.

I can hear the wailing, gnashing of teeth, and rending of garments from those on the loony left all the way down here in Seaside.   Fortunately the lapping of the surf this morning and a quick review of the jump in the markets kind of drowns most of that out.

Too funny that the liquified NG imports to EU were developed as a strategic goal to offset the dependence on the Russian NG pipelines after the Putin Ukraine incident, and for the slow witted this was before Trump was even in office. Now for the really slow to understand the statement about more soybeans being purchased by Europe.......a big double duh stupid.......with the tariffs the American soybean prices have fallen into the dumpster and of course Europe is going to get some of those cheap beans now.....duh......that is a natural market reaction and has nothing to do with two leaders talking absolutely about nothing but bluster and PT Barnum tom foolery which of course fools the slow witted.

The first proposition which is so hysterical is the idea that prior to president trump there were not folks working to address unfair trade practices when there are government institutions which were formed which do this 24/7 with micro adjustments which are constantly being made. Trump using the best propaganda enters this process and goes for content empty rhetoric about how he is getting tough on trade and he has done just the opposite. Look at the profit projections which were drastically reduced yesterday by Chrysler, Ford, and GM......President Trump is a one man wrecking crew on free trade, and who gains from these needless theatrics in EU.......the Russians as they work on their strategic goal of destroying Nato and EU economic integration by its very definition excludes Russia. Trump is simply a Russian agent who cannot have his behavior rationalized, but for the fact he appears to have been compromised.

Basically, Trump backed down on the trade war he started, so Europe -- which thought the whole thing was stupid in the first place -- said, "Fine, if you drop the tariffs, we'll go back to buying the soybeans from you that we were buying before." Trump declares this to be a great victory, and his trained idiots obediently shriek and slap their forelimbs together like he "won" something.

If you take a bunch of people and brainwash them early in church, you'll have usefully-stupid, blindly-believing idiots for life, and can do pretty much anything you want with 'em. And they'll perpetuate the stupidity by training their own kids in it, so it goes on forever, like a renewable resource.

The one thing Trump's actually good at is recognizing that his base are intellectually stunted, childish, frightened, confused, and eager to be led like sheep, and then not treating them with any more respect than they deserve. Previous Republican presidents mistakenly underestimated the idiocy of their base and at least tried to make their lies sound good, and not be blatant about feeding their bigotry. They tried to put a nice face on the sewage they were serving up.

Not Trump! Trump knows his following is made up of nasty human garbage, and he runs with it and doesn't even try to appeal to the better angels of our nature... because he's a sociopath and doesn't have any, anyway. He doesn't have a conscience so he doesn't care what damage he does to the rest of the country by emboldening the mob's worst instincts, and they like that because they feel like they don't have to feel guilty about being hateful assholes. This is no surprise to those of us who live and work among Republicans on a daily basis. We already know most of 'em are hilariously stupid pieces of shit, like the poor stupid cow I just spent half my morning listening to (she was wondering if she cut her phone line while planting a tree if that would be "okay" and if the phone would still work ). Trump's the first to drop any pretense of treating his base like anything but gullible bigots. He flat out tells them (straight out of Orwell) not to believe anything they see or hear or read... just obey him. And they do. It's scared off a few of the more intelligent Republicans, but it turned the others into a devoted cult of hardcore assholes. The Triumph of the Swill.

It's pretty simple, really. You take a kid and tell them from their earliest days that a bearded man in a nightgown lives in the sky, and he loves you but he's insecure, so he'll torture you for eternity. But, so he won't have to do that, he sends his son down to earth (although it's actually him) and tortures him to death, instead, because otherwise he can't forgive you. Now, you and I could just forgive people without a bloody horrible sacrifice... in fact, if I said "I'll forgive you, but first I gotta torture this puppy to death" we'd rightfully say that was completely psychotic, and my "forgiveness" would be highly circumspect. But, you train people to think that this is not only real, but that it makes sense, and surround them with other people who agree and can convince them that they're not laughable idiots for believing it, and then you've got somthin' you can really exploit. Once you get people believing that that's logical, you can do pretty much of anything you want with 'em. Train them to work around all evidence and logic so they can keep believing that the Earth is 6000 years old and that mankind was led astray by a talking snake, and something like "trickle-down economics" (which at least sounds feasible, even though practice proves it doesn't work) becomes an easy sell.

It's got to be hard not to look at those people and want to cynically see what else you could make them believe. Hitler couldn't resist that impulse, and we see what happened. Trump can't resist the impulse, either. When you combine a bunch of low-wattage fools who are desperate to be led by an authoritarian with a guy who wants to be that authoritarian, and who has contempt for humanity in general... you get a nightmare situation.

So, for those determined to pretend that the shit-sandwich that is the Trump presidency is actually filet mignon, then his backtracking on his own failed policy gets to be a sign of "strength and success" instead of what it is -- a guy cleaning up a mess he made and trying not to look sheepish while he does it.

The world may grant him some concessions just because they know he is to stubborn and idiotic to know he's wrecking his own economy, but it's going to be like North Korea's "denuclearization" -- just enough of a smokescreen of bullshit to let Trump spin it for his cultists. Doesn't take much, since they're eager to be tricked.

Trumps understanding of trade is like middle age doctors understanding of leeches. I honestly have not had a conversation with an intelligent person who was a trump supporter who does not recognize that Trump is now over his head. My theory is simple......he takes a walk with Putin and lets him know the dates and times he will pull another damaging economic dumb asz move, and the Russian Oligarchs, Russian Mob, and the American mob get their pay back from their biggest earner.........The funniest part is somebody actually compared Trump to a new sheriff in town after the weakest display in public by an American President in American history......he is a powder puff, silver spooned, metrosexual sissy. The idea that this man had a brain was debunked on the Celebrity apprentice as his daughter sat their acting like she actually had knowledge......just passing the ignorance downhill as the silver spoons got elected by folks who usually are intolerant to silver spooned folks who never earned a thing but were given their break with Fred's mob connections and guarantees on getting government work and loans in NY......why did 80% of folks in NY vote against this walter mitty......they knew he was full of chit.

The whole Tariff discussion in the context of Trump has become idiotic, and the only issue is how many years will it take to undo what the child has done on the keyboard.

Farms and farmers have been "toyed" with by progressive (fascist) policies since fdr.

But this time it's shocking?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agricultural_Adjustment_Act

Farms and farmers have been "toyed" with by progressive (fascist) policies since fdr.

But this time it's shocking?

Opinions which have no connection with reality are usually routinely corrected in the real world. Joe comes to the Barber shop and says, I heard they are closing Ace Hardware. Joe answers, no they are not closing. When questioned as to the basis of that belief.......Joe cannot validate a single fact that Ace Hardware is closing.

So a progressive farm policy for the last 75 years which has seen food production in America increase by more than double as world hunger has almost been globally eliminated is fascist. The truth is some of the farm policies add to overall productivity from the agricultural sector which have been quite successful. However, any person using the word progressive as a synonym for fascist is simply illiterate. So Joe says Ace is closing........

You obviously don't know what progressivism is or fascism. They are economic models. As opposed to nazism... which is an authoritarian model of governance. Full of the things that you love to fail against.

Get a clue.