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Our CIA didn't dig up Bin Ladin's hideaway, the Pakistanis gave him to us!

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2seaoat
KarlRove
Sal
gatorfan
Wordslinger
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Wordslinger

Wordslinger

It appears the whole story as released by the Obama administration and the SEALS is total bullshit.

The Pakistani government knew about the raid and promised not to interfere as long as Bin Ladin was killed.

The heroic SEAL raid story is total bullshit. They knew there would be no interference from the Pakistanis. They didn't go there to capture Bin Ladin, they went there to murder him.

When are we supposed to believe anything released by the media in cooperation with our deceitful, loose-cannon CIA?

We need to disband the CIA which no longer protects us from foreign threats but has become a political tool of the presidency.

Check out reality here:


http://www.lrb.co.uk/v37/n10/seymour-m-hersh/the-killing-of-osama-bin-laden?ncid=newsltushpmg00000003

gatorfan



In his rush to spike the OBL football Obama flat out lied, something he is quite good at doing. Of course it's no surprise.

"Report: Obama lied about bin Laden raid"

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/241573-report-obama-lied-about-bin-laden-raid

Sal

Sal

Kinda sad.

Hersh used to be a widely respected and distinguished investigative journalist.

He's lost what few marbles he had left.

Wordslinger

Wordslinger

Sal wrote:Kinda sad.

Hersh used to be a widely respected and distinguished investigative journalist.

He's lost what few marbles he had left.

You may be right, but Hersh presents considerable facts that can be checked. I was particularly impressed with the fact that no air cover was provided the SEAL raiding team -- indicating that the raid was taking place with Pakistan approval. We'll see as more facts roll out ...

KarlRove

KarlRove

Yes sal and others denigrate when dirt on their messiah comes to light .

2seaoat



Air cover is your basis for gullibility. You think we are going to shoot down Pakistan's air response over their own territory? You think those were the mission parameters? I would suggest stealth were the mission parameters and in that type of mission there are inherent risks. I will need more proof, but when children in a school are massacred by militants, and they target a school where government and military children.......one may think that there are plenty of rumor and suspicion that the government did cooperate. Need proof and although speculation is thick, not much proof in the article.

Sal

Sal

Hersh's recent record of investigative journalism exposés is not pretty.

His shelf life has expired.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

wordslinger,

Since, same as me, you're neither a democrat nor a republican, I hope you're observing what's happening here.

This kneejerk reaction on the part of Sal and seaoat to defend a democrat politician is such an autonomic reflex, that it's got them now wanting to just totally dismiss Seymour Hersh out of hand.

It's exactly like the kneejerk reaction we get from markle when anyone says anything about bill o'reilly that isn't flattering.

I keep seeing more and more evidence every day which is showing me the democrats and the republicans are so much more alike than they are different.

Floridatexan

Floridatexan

Bob wrote:wordslinger,

Since,  same as me,  you're neither a democrat nor a republican,  I hope you're observing what's happening here.

This kneejerk reaction on the part of Sal and seaoat to defend a democrat politician is such an autonomic reflex,  that it's got them now wanting to just totally dismiss Seymour Hersh out of hand.  

It's exactly like the kneejerk reaction we get from markle when anyone says anything about bill o'reilly that isn't flattering.

I keep seeing more and more evidence every day which is showing me the democrats and the republicans are so much more alike than they are different.

That's because you like to sit on the fence and poke fun at both sides, while apparently never considering which party is trying to help people and which is not.

Our CIA didn't dig up Bin Ladin's hideaway, the Pakistanis gave him to us! Graph

KarlRove

KarlRove

Wordslinger wrote:It appears the whole story as released by the Obama administration and the SEALS is total bullshit.

The Pakistani government knew about the raid and promised not to interfere as long as Bin Ladin was killed.

The heroic SEAL raid story is total bullshit. They knew there would be no interference from the Pakistanis. They didn't go there to capture Bin Ladin, they went there to murder him.

When are we supposed to believe anything released by the media in cooperation with our deceitful, loose-cannon CIA?

We need to disband the CIA which no longer protects us from foreign threats but has become a political tool of the presidency.

Check out reality here:


http://www.lrb.co.uk/v37/n10/seymour-m-hersh/the-killing-of-osama-bin-laden?ncid=newsltushpmg00000003

Who cares if they murdered him? War is about killing people- plain and simple. How many murders was he responsible for on 9-11? Dying the way he did was an easy way out. The SEALs were merciful by double tapping him. This wasn't an issue until Obama went back on his word to Pakistan and gave up a doctor (as a spy) for collateral damage in the process. Again, Obama has to spike the football over a covert op that promised our ally silence on the raid until the story could be released to cover for Bin Laden being given up by the Pakis.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Floridatexan wrote:

That's because you like to sit on the fence and poke fun at both sides, while apparently never considering which party is trying to help people and which is not.

Our CIA didn't dig up Bin Ladin's hideaway, the Pakistanis gave him to us! Graph

Politicians,  regardless of which of the two political parties they represent;  are not the main reason why jobs are created or lost or why the stock market goes up and down,  Tex.
It doesn't matter if it's Reagan or Obama or Bush or Clinton.

The fact is our country's economy and labor market and stock markets are a whole lot bigger entities than our political dog and pony show.
The whole premise of your post is silly.

othershoe1030

othershoe1030

gatorfan wrote:In his rush to spike the OBL football Obama flat out lied, something he is quite good at doing. Of course it's no surprise.

"Report: Obama lied about bin Laden raid"

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/241573-report-obama-lied-about-bin-laden-raid

This is the report you referenced above. It seems to contradict the headline. Did you read it? All the negative claims are statements Hersh made in his story. I was shocked to see there was only one source that he used for this report. He used to be more thorough.

I seem to remember Pakistani spokesmen speaking to the press right after the killing. They were sputtering mad that we'd breached their air space without a warning. This fits with the last part of the article here.

What was it that Pakistan was supposed to get as a reward for turning over OBL?

How did Obama falsely take credit for the killing? The Seals performed their mission and OBL was killed unless Hersch thinks the Pakistani's killed him?


A story published on Sunday alleges that President Obama deceived Americans with his narrative of the 2011 assassination of Osama bin Laden.

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Author Seymour Hersh accuses Obama of rushing to take credit for the al Qaeda leader's death.
This decision, Hersh argues in the London Review of Books, forced the military and intelligence communities to scramble and then corroborate the president’s version of events.

“High-level lying nonetheless remains the modus operandi of U.S. policy, along with secret prisons, drone attacks, Special Forces night raids, bypassing the chain of command, and cutting out those who might say no,” Hersh wrote of the Obama administration’s counterterrorism policies.

Hersh based his report on a single, anonymous source. This individual, he said, is a “retired senior intelligence official who was knowledgeable about the initial intelligence about bin Laden’s presence in Abottabad.”

Hersh’s source alleged that the Pakistani government had an active role in approving and implementing the raid on bin Laden’s compound.

In addition, the source said that the Obama administration originally agreed to announce bin Laden had been killed in a drone strike rather than shot during an active Special Forces mission.

“Obama’s speech was put together in a rush,” Hersh wrote of Obama’s announcement of Operation Neptune Spear to Americans.

“This series of self-serving and inaccurate statements would create chaos in the weeks following,” he added.

“This was not the fog of war,” Hersh quoted his anonymous source as saying.

“The fact that there was an agreement with the Pakistanis and no contingency analysis of what was to be disclosed if something went wrong – that wasn’t even discussed,” the source added.

“And once it went wrong, they had to make up a new cover story on the fly,” the source said of Obama’s advisers’ response to his speech on the raid, Hersh wrote.

Hersh’s report also accuses the Obama administration of embellishing the details of the raid itself and presenting al Qaeda as a bigger threat than it actually was before bin Laden’s death.

Hersh on Monday defended the report after a big blowback; critics have called the report thinly sourced and questions have been raised about inconsistencies within the piece.

The White House, for example, on Monday panned the report.

"There are too many inaccuracies and baseless assertions in this piece to fact check each one," White House National Security Council spokesman Ned Price said in a statement shared with The Hill.

“Every sentence I was reading was wrong,” former acting CIA Director Michael Morell added Monday on “CBS This Morning.”

“The source that Hersh talked to has no idea what he’s talking about. The person obviously was not close to what happened," he added. "The Pakistanis did not know. The president made a decision not to tell the Pakistanis. The Pakistanis were furious with us. The president sent me to Pakistan after the raids to start smoothing things over.”

This story was updated on May 11 at 11:54 a.m.

Sal

Sal

Bob wrote:wordslinger,

Since,  same as me,  you're neither a democrat nor a republican,  I hope you're observing what's happening here.

This kneejerk reaction on the part of Sal and seaoat to defend a democrat politician is such an autonomic reflex,  that it's got them now wanting to just totally dismiss Seymour Hersh out of hand.  

It's exactly like the kneejerk reaction we get from markle when anyone says anything about bill o'reilly that isn't flattering.

I keep seeing more and more evidence every day which is showing me the democrats and the republicans are so much more alike than they are different.

No "kneejerk reaction" or "autonomic reflex" from me, Bob.

Just a consideration of Hersh's recent history, a cursory examination of his pathetic sourcing, and application of common sense.

You should try it some time.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

[quote="Sal"]
Bob wrote:

You should try it some time.

Agreed. So lay it on me. Provide me a link or two to what you're referring to and I'll gladly take a look.

Sal

Sal

http://www.vox.com/2015/5/11/8584473/seymour-hersh-osama-bin-laden

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Sal wrote:http://www.vox.com/2015/5/11/8584473/seymour-hersh-osama-bin-laden

"He's claimed that much of the US special forces is controlled by secret members of Opus Dei, that the US military flew Iranian terrorists to Nevada for training, and that the 2013 chemical weapons attack in Syria was a "false flag" staged by the government of Turkey. Those reports have had little proof and, rather than being borne out by subsequent investigations, have been either unsubstantiated or outright debunked."

That sounds like the shit we get on Alex Jones' websites. lol

Okay, if all that's true then you are right, he no longer has any credibility.



KarlRove

KarlRove

VOX crusades against anything anti-Obama. Why don't you just quote the Daily KOS?

Sal

Sal

KarlRove wrote:VOX crusades against anything anti-Obama. Why don't you just quote the Daily KOS?

Did Hersh write those things or did he not, dumbass?

A simple yes or no will suffice.

KarlRove

KarlRove

Who knows? But VOX isn't credible.

Sal

Sal

Hersh is the one with the credibility problem.

Wordslinger

Wordslinger

On Aljazeera tonight it was brought out that NBC has now corroborated Hersh's story regarding a "volunteer asset" -- i.e. a Pakistani agent, did in fact go to the CIA in Islamabad and state where he knew Bin Laden was "being held," by the Pakistan military.

This development strongly supports part of Hersh's article.


Here's another link to check out: http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/everything-you-thought-you-knew-about-death-osama-bin-laden-wrong  



Last edited by Wordslinger on 5/12/2015, 4:39 am; edited 1 time in total

2seaoat



I am not dismissing the possibility.....it makes sense and the attack on the school has bothered me, but I have read the links and I do not see sufficient multi sources to make the chit stick.......again, just because there is inadequate proof does not make it false.....I just want some more proof. Real bothered by that attack on the school......not something which is usually done, and what made them go to that level which has caused a real backlash. However, where you would think you would get confirmation would be somewhere in the line of command in America.....nothing. I understand if a deal was cut, but to have nobody in the American chain of command challenging the official story. This level of proof would not even hold up in a Kangaroo Court.

Wordslinger

Wordslinger

2seaoat wrote:I am not dismissing the possibility.....it makes sense and the attack on the school has bothered me, but I have read the links and I do not see sufficient multi sources to make the chit stick.......again, just because there is inadequate proof does not make it false.....I just want some more proof.  Real bothered by that attack on the school......not something which is usually done, and what made them go to that level which has caused a real backlash.  However, where you would think you would get confirmation would be somewhere in the line of command in America.....nothing.  I understand if a deal was cut, but to have nobody in the American chain of command challenging the official story.   This level of proof would not even hold up in a Kangaroo Court.

What do you mean by "attack on the school" . .. explain please.  I never said that Hersh's story is 100% accurate.  I did say that there were elements that sounded true and that the truth would indeed come out under investigation.  For sure, I don't believe any of the story of bin Laden's killing as promulgated by the CIA whose motto should be:  We fuck with the truth. Always.  

Would the President of the United States take part in a scheme to fool the American public?  Remember the "Tonkin Gulf" incident?  Remember the statements put out by Dubya and gang about Saddam's WMD?

Face it -- American Presidents have never hesitated to participate in a lie when the falsehood is aimed at some political objective they cherish at the moment.

Maybe the CIA really did dig-up all on their own where Bin Laden was quartered.  And maybe the Pakistani government didn't know where Bin Laden was living.  And maybe our heroic SEALS really were forced to murder Bin Laden.  And maybe the reason the CIA openly aided Hollywood's effort in Zero Dark Thirty was simply to gain the agency's favor with a gullible public.

If you study the true history of America's governments, you learn to suspect ANYTHING PUT OUT TO THE PRESS BY OUR PRESIDENT, OUR NATIONAL SECURITY AGENCIES OR THE PENTAGON.

As I said above, I'm not satisfied in any way that Hersh's version of the Bin Laden assassination is accurate.  But it has considerably more credibility than the administration's heroic version of the event.  

Personally, the moment I learned the CIA was advising the producers of Zero Dark Thirty, I suspected the story was total bullshit and probably a cover up.

Hersh may be right, or wrong.  It's too early for me to make the call.  

2seaoat



Hersh may be right, or wrong. It's too early for me to make the call.


No, he is wrong until he provides credible facts. The New Yorker would not publish his article because it lacked credibility. Journalism has standards of reporting, and this is not a historical novel or tabloid where single sourcing of he said she said is taken as the truth. He is wrong and most rational people are awaiting the proof. Like I said in an earlier post, what is strange that not ONE American from soldier up to policy leaders have confirmed that we had a secret deal with Pakistan........and that logical fallacy alone gives him no credibility.....I will wait for facts.

Wordslinger

Wordslinger

2seaoat wrote:Hersh may be right, or wrong.  It's too early for me to make the call.  


No, he is wrong until he provides credible facts.  The New Yorker would not publish his article because it lacked credibility.  Journalism has standards of reporting, and this is not a historical novel or tabloid where single sourcing of he said she said is taken as the truth.  He is wrong and most rational people are awaiting the proof.  Like I said in an earlier post, what is strange that not ONE American from soldier up to policy leaders have confirmed that we had a secret deal with Pakistan........and that logical fallacy alone gives him no credibility.....I will wait for facts.

Would you explain please what you meant about a school attack?

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