What is the outcome of ten years and a trillion dollars and 4000 american lives sacrificied with the neocon war in Iraq?

I guess if the un tells obama to bomb somebody... he'll blow the shit outa them... without congress again.

The question is who is "them" gonna be... there are atleast three or four insurgent influences in play there.

Markle wrote:
"Could Be One of the Great Achievements of This Administration" The vice president said he’d been to Iraq 17 times and visits the country every three months or so. "I know every one of the major players in all the segments of that society" he said. "It's impressed me. I've been impressed how they have been deciding to use the political process rather than guns to settle their differences."
- Vice President Joe Biden (D) Feb. 10, 2010 [/size]

I get it. So because another jackass politician who Sal (or somebody here) calls "Handsome Joe" and who is known for running off at the mouth at the drop of a hat, says something incredibly naive, I'm supposed to get an erection over it and come over to your side. lol

"...The cut in taxes rescued our economy..."

What tripe!!! Bush was the only president to cut taxes in a time of war...and he characteristically lied about the equanimity of those tax cuts. You claim to be such a lover of truth and honesty...when did Bush ever tell the truth? He said he didn't want to be a wartime president, yet he was headed that direction on day one of his illegitimate "reign" according to two experts in a position to know. So...if he lied about Iraq, what other lies did he tell? History will not judge him kindly.

Bob wrote:I tell you one thing.  Once we send the military back into Iraq and wipe out all those ragheads moving toward Baghdad,  anybody would have to be a damn fool to want to work in that new "Freedom Tower".  I wouldn't want to be within a mile of the place.  Because if our country stops them from taking over that shithole,  they're really going to want to slaughter Americans.  And the more creative ones are gonna start hatching terror plots left and right against us.

All I can say is thank god those ragheads have never heard of Pensacola.

Must you continue to use that term?

Florida Texan,

When some goddamn maggot is so obsessed with that gutter religion bullshit that he wants me behind bars or dead for something I was born with and have no choice in the matter,  I will call him any goddamn thing I choose to call him.  
So no goddamnit,  I will not stop calling them ragheads.  And if they don't like being called ragheads they can get me to stop calling them that in a new york second.  All they have to do is act like civilized human beings and stop persecuting people for how they're born.  If they don't do that then they can expect to be called a lot worse than raghead.  How about filthy degenerate raghead.  Is that better.

Oh Jesus now we're gonna have to hear seaoat start preaching about how wonderful the goddamn muslims are again because "some of his best friends" are muslims.

Bob wrote:I tell you one thing.  Once we send the military back into Iraq and wipe out all those ragheads moving toward Baghdad,  anybody would have to be a damn fool to want to work in that new "Freedom Tower".  I wouldn't want to be within a mile of the place.  Because if our country stops them from taking over that shithole,  they're really going to want to slaughter Americans.  And the more creative ones are gonna start hatching terror plots left and right against us.

All I can say is thank god those ragheads have never heard of Pensacola.

President Barack Hussein Obama has no clue what to do. He is totally bewildered.

The tax revenues began to rise a couple of years into the tax cuts... but there were other currency interventions that told the real story of what bush was willing to do in order to artificially bounce the economy out of the dot com crash and 9/11.

And I'm not even talking about the patriot act assault on our rights and liberty... I'm referring to the federal reserve interest rate manipulations. It goes largely unnoticed and certainly garners no blame in our current situation... but I think it was the fuse.

Look at the results... follow the money as they say... what will be the most likely outcome in the end game?

The fed holds almost FOUR TRILLION DOLLARS of our debt... what happens if interest rates become volatile?

Something else you might want to ask yourself... where did that four trillion dollars we owe the fed come from?

PkrBum wrote:The tax revenues began to rise a couple of years into the tax cuts... but there were other currency interventions that told the real story of what bush was willing to do in order to artificially bounce the economy out of the dot com crash and 9/11.

And I'm not even talking about the patriot act assault on our rights and liberty... I'm referring to the federal reserve interest rate manipulations. It goes largely unnoticed and  certainly garners no blame in our current situation... but I think it was the fuse.

Look at the results... follow the money as they say... what will be the most likely outcome in the end game?

The fed holds almost FOUR TRILLION DOLLARS of our debt... what happens if interest rates become volatile?

Something else you might want to ask yourself... where did that four trillion dollars we owe the fed come from?

Pkr,  don't you know that sal and seaoat think you're a racist just for asking those questions.  They take those questions as a personal insult to that politician and that political party they worship.  And that's even though seaoat is a "lifelong republican".  lol

ZVUGKTUBM wrote:How is the Middle East going now that President Obama is President?

How would things have been different had Mitt Romney won the 2012 election? (eyes rolling....)

You may want to check but President Barack Hussein Obama took office and started his destruction January 2009. I believe it was the next month he signed his first executive order which was to close GITMO within the years.

Sal wrote:The moment we invaded Iraq and topple Saddam, forces were unshackled that made what were seeing in, not only Iraq but many areas in the region, inevitable, regardless of when or how we made our exit.

If the troops we spent a decade training are still throwing down their weapons, burning their uniforms, and joining the other side, then there wasn't anything that we could have done short of stationing 100,000 of our own soldiers there in something close to perpetuity.

It was an ill-planned, complete and total clusterfuck, and the chickens are coming home to roost.

Boy, during those times when you get your head out of your ass and speak the truth, you speak it better than anyone I've ever listened to. And I mean not just here but I include the celebrities on the tv as well.
And that's even if you do think I'm an ignorant old cracker. lol

PkrBum wrote:The fed holds almost FOUR TRILLION DOLLARS of our debt... what happens if interest rates become volatile?

What is it that you think the central bank does in the economy? What function do you feel it serves? Honest question.

boards of FL wrote:

PkrBum wrote:The fed holds almost FOUR TRILLION DOLLARS of our debt... what happens if interest rates become volatile?

What is it that you think the central bank does in the economy?  What function do you feel it serves?  Honest question.  

Don't let him get you on the ropes with this question, Pkr. We're all counting on you to set this young whippersnapper straight. Because you're the only one amongst our ilk who understands all this financial insanity. lol

othershoe1030 wrote:Richard Engel brings up a good point. At this time it is not clear "which" Iraq we might want to support. The country is breaking up into three distinct areas each controlled by different groups. The country is falling apart. It is Humpty Dumpty time in Iraq.

Even you...hopefully...know better than that. ISIS is taking over Iraq and Syria. They are so bad that al Qaeda even threw them out.

Bob wrote:

boards of FL wrote:

PkrBum wrote:The fed holds almost FOUR TRILLION DOLLARS of our debt... what happens if interest rates become volatile?

What is it that you think the central bank does in the economy?  What function do you feel it serves?  Honest question.  

Don't let him get you on the ropes with this question, Pkr. We're all counting on you to set this young whippersnapper straight. Because you're the only one amongst our ilk who understands all this financial insanity. lol

It's simple enough to look up the intent of the federal reserve, how it was created, and it's role today.

What I won't do is let him frame the debate answering my question with a question to shift the burden.

He and I are rarely able to have a conversation because of his rules of engagement... so I don't bother answering.

Sal wrote:The moment we invaded Iraq and toppled Saddam, forces were unshackled that made what are seeing, in not only Iraq but many areas in the region, inevitable, regardless of when or how we made our exit.

If the troops we spent a decade training are still throwing down their weapons, burning their uniforms, and joining the other side, then there wasn't anything that we could have done short of stationing 100,000 of our own soldiers there in something close to perpetuity.

It was an ill-planned, complete and total clusterfuck, and the chickens are coming home to roost.

Strange, none of the generals share your opinion. We could have maintained the country with 12,000 to 15,000 troops.

President Barack Hussein Obama wasn't able to negotiate an agreement to indemnify our troops so we were forced out.

Bob wrote:Florida Texan,

When some goddamn maggot is so obsessed with that gutter religion bullshit that he wants me behind bars or dead for something I was born with and have no choice in the matter,  I will call him any goddamn thing I choose to call him.  
So no goddamnit,  I will not stop calling them ragheads.  And if they don't like being called ragheads they can get me to stop calling them that in a new york second.  All they have to do is act like civilized human beings and stop persecuting people for how they're born.  If they don't do that then they can expect to be called a lot worse than raghead.  How about filthy degenerate raghead.  Is that better.

No, that is NOT BETTER. For someone who fence-sits so much, you are remarkable in your hatred for people you know very little about. You have bought into a false narrative stereotype that you have been spoonfed by liars. And when it's pointed out to you that those same "sources" lie again and again, you still believe the lies you've been told. Zealotry exists in ALL religions. Murdering scum is murdering scum, no matter what the nationality or religious adherence that is used to justify it.



American Jihad 2014: The New Fundamentalists

"In a 1950s civics textbook of mine, I can remember a Martian landing on Main Street, U.S.A., to be instructed in the glories of our political system. You know, our tripartite government, checks and balances, miraculous set of rights, and vibrant democracy. There was, Americans then thought, much to be proud of, and so for that generation of children, many Martians were instructed in the American way of life. These days, I suspect, not so many.
Still, I wondered just what lessons might be offered to such a Martian crash-landing in Washington as 2014 begins. Certainly checks, balances, rights, and democracy wouldn’t top any New Year’s list. Since my childhood, in fact, that tripartite government has grown a fourth part, a national security state that is remarkably unchecked and unbalanced. In recent times, that labyrinthine structure of intelligence agencies morphing into war-fighting outfits, the U.S. military (with its own secret military, the special operations forces, gestating inside it), and the Department of Homeland Security, a monster conglomeration of agencies that is an actual “defense department,” as well as a vast contingent of weapons makers, contractors, and profiteers bolstered by an army of lobbyists, has never stopped growing. It has won the undying fealty of Congress, embraced the power of the presidency, made itself into a jobs program for the American people, and been largely free to do as it pleased with almost unlimited taxpayer dollars.
The expansion of Washington’s national security state — let’s call it the NSS — to gargantuan proportions has historically met little opposition. In the wake of the Edward Snowden revelations, however, some resistance has arisen, especially when it comes to the “right” of one part of the NSS to turn the world into a listening post and gather, in particular, American communications of every sort. The debate about this — invariably framed within the boundaries of whether or not we should have more security or more privacy and how exactly to balance the two — has been reasonably vigorous. The problem is: it doesn’t begin to get at the real nature of the NSS or the problems it poses.
If I were to instruct that stray Martian lost in the nation’s capital, I might choose another framework entirely for my lesson. After all, the focus of the NSS, which has like an incubus grown to monumental proportions inside the body of the political system, would seem distinctly monomaniacal, if only we could step outside our normal way of thinking for a moment. At a cost of nearly a trillion dollars a year, its main global enemy consists of thousands of lightly armed jihadis and wannabe jihadis scattered mainly across the backlands of the planet. They are capable of causing genuine damage — though far less to the United States than numerous other countries — but not of shaking our way of life. And yet for the leaders, bureaucrats, corporate cronies, rank and file, and acolytes of the NSS, it’s a focus that can never be intense enough on behalf of a system that can never grow large enough or be well funded enough.
None of the frameworks we normally call on to understand the national security state capture the irrationality, genuine inanity, and actual madness that lie at its heart. Perhaps reimagining what has developed in these last decades as a faith-based system — a new national religion — would help. This, at least, is the way I would explain the new Washington to that wayward Martian.
Holy Warriors
Imagine what we call “national security” as, at heart, a proselytizing warrior religion. It has its holy orders. It has its sacred texts (classified). It has its dogma and its warrior priests. It has its sanctified promised land, known as “the homeland.” It has its seminaries, which we call think tanks. It is a monotheistic faith in that it broaches no alternatives to itself. It is Manichaean in its view of the world. As with so many religions, its god is an eye in the sky, an all-seeing Being who knows your secrets..."

(more)

http://revista-amauta.org/2014/01/american-jihad-2014-the-new-fundamentalists/

Floridatexan wrote: you are remarkable in your hatred for people you know very little about.  

I'm glad you brought that up. The fact is that no goddamn homophobic muslim bigots know me or know anything about me, tex. They just know their sky daddy says I have to change and be a goddamn bigot like him and them, elst I don't deserve to even have life. And they'll happily take life away from me because that's what the sky daddy whispers to them to do.
I wouldn't be a bit surprised if their goofy little sky daddy aint a closet queer himself. We know that mohammed freak was a child molester.

If you keep defending those maggots then there's no other explanation than you have to be a goddamn bigot too. So drop it. You're never in ten lifetimes gonna get me to love the bigots who want to hurt me. I aint jesus and I don't turn the other cheek.

ZVUGKTUBM wrote:It was an ill-planned, complete and total clusterfuck, and the chickens are coming home to roost.



Anyone who thinks there is a military solution to Iraq's current problems is as dimwitted as the dimwits who thought it was a good idea to invade the country.

Amen.

Besides,  what kind of fucking retards don't like good pork barbecue.
They'll eat chicken meat that's probably ransid from sitting out in the hot desert sun and have no problem with that.  But a good meal of pork ribs at Sonnys is "dirty" to them because some crackpot named mohammed who lived 1300 years ago tells them so.
Not to mention, I get a 25% senior discount at sonnys. See if they can get that from the ayatollah.

PkrBum wrote:

Bob wrote:

boards of FL wrote:

PkrBum wrote:The fed holds almost FOUR TRILLION DOLLARS of our debt... what happens if interest rates become volatile?

What is it that you think the central bank does in the economy?  What function do you feel it serves?  Honest question.  

Don't let him get you on the ropes with this question,  Pkr.  We're all counting on you to set this young whippersnapper straight.  Because you're the only one amongst our ilk who understands all this financial insanity.  lol

It's simple enough to look up the intent of the federal reserve, how it was created, and it's role today.

What I won't do is let him frame the debate answering my question with a question to shift the burden.

He and I are rarely able to have a conversation because of his rules of engagement... so I don't bother answering.

Well look at that. PkrBum is once again at a loss for words when it is time to go deeper than a one-line interjection.

Bob wrote:

Floridatexan wrote: you are remarkable in your hatred for people you know very little about.  

I'm glad you brought that up.  The fact is that no goddamn homophobic muslim bigots know me or know anything about me,  tex.  They just know their sky daddy says I have to change and be a goddamn bigot like him and them,  elst I don't deserve to even have life.  And they'll happily take life away from me because that's what the sky daddy whispers to them to do.
I wouldn't be a bit surprised if their goofy little sky daddy aint a closet queer himself.  We know that mohammed freak was a child molester.

If you keep defending those maggots then there's no other explanation than you have to be a goddamn bigot too.  So drop it.  You're never in ten lifetimes gonna get me to love the bigots who want to hurt me.  I aint jesus and I don't turn the other cheek.

How many Muslims do you know, Bob? And how many have you found on your doorstep? I'm not going to drop it...