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Pensacola Discussion Forum » Politics » What is the outcome of ten years and a trillion dollars and 4000 american lives sacrificied with the neocon war in Iraq?

What is the outcome of ten years and a trillion dollars and 4000 american lives sacrificied with the neocon war in Iraq?

+7
Markle
Wordslinger
Sal
ZVUGKTUBM
boards of FL
gatorfan
Hospital Bob
11 posters

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Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Okay how bout this. I'm now getting the feeling that just like seaoat "some of your best friends" must be muslims.

You have my phone number and you know where I live because you've visited my home. If you would like to bring one of your muslim friends to meet me and tell me he/she has absolutely no problem with the sexual orientation his allah made me have and that his allah loves people of all sexual orientations and is pissed off because all those other muslims who claim allah is agin me for it are full of shit, then after I hear him/her tell me that to my face then I will take it all back. I will post and say I had the muslims all wrong and they're not all like that and I will personally apologize to him/her for thinking it.

Otherwise all you're saying to me is just empty politically correct rhetoric.



Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

But please. Never again present another "george bush says" youtube.
I'll say this as politely as I can. I honestly am not interested in anything george bush says. If I never have to hear the name george bush again it will be too soon.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Let's take the queer stuff totally out of this picture, tex. And let's talk only about how the muslims treat women.

What do your muslim buds say about how their god allah and their prophet mohammed and their ayatollahs and whatnot are so bigoted against women?
Do they hate allah and mohammed and the ayatollah for that like any civilized human being would do? Or do they cowtow to it?





Sal

Sal

This was always the folly of removing a brutal and violent but effective tyrant from this region. But he was a symptom rather than the cause of Iraq's problems, Iraq is a nation which was drawn on maps in London and Paris. Cobbling together not just different sects and nationalities in Mesopotania, where many if not all of the Middle East's crossroads, invasion routes and contentions come together is an extremely explosive cocktail. The only way it could be held together is through brutal oppression and iron fisted rule. Saddam was a symptom of this situation, not the cause.

We are now seeing a great and violent collision of competing and opposed trajectories.

The divisions in the Syrian Civil War appear irreconcilable. There's an Alawi controlled region in the northwest, and a Druze division in the southwest. Most explosively, ISIS is fighting in both Iraq and Syria, in part to establish whether eastern Syria and northern Iraq should form a new nation. It's important to remember that ISIS is the only group that has been kicked out of Al Qaeda for being too brutal and committing too many atrocities against civilian populations, and that they are the group we would be fighting against in Iraq and one of the groups opposed to Assad in Syria. So, we're pretty well fucked on that front.

The main catalyst of the current crisis is the Iraqi government's desire to cut out the historically important but small Sunni minority in favor of a Shiite ethnic government. The reason the Iraqi military disintegrated so quickly is because Iraq is not really a state in any traditional sense of the word, and the militias are based on more solid regional ethnic divisions.

When Saddam was removed from the equation, it was inevitable that all of these factors would eventually collide.

It's a clusterfuck, and a direct result of the decision to invade and topple Saddam.

To understand this, you would have to possess at least a rudimentary understanding of cause and effect, a quality that Markle and PeeDawg sadly lack.

2seaoat



If the issue is what the generals think, it would be relevant for about three months of the two wars........it was the ten year occupation of those two countries where nationalistic attacks against a foreign occupier drained our treasury and killed our people. Occupation where you are not wanted never in the world's history has proven to be a successful. The response to 911 should have been done by President Obama from the git go, and this country would have five trillion to spend on our infrastructure.

Floridatexan

Floridatexan

Bob wrote:Okay how bout this.  I'm now getting the feeling that just like seaoat "some of your best friends" must be muslims.

You have my phone number and you know where I live because you've visited my home.  If you would like to bring one of your muslim friends to meet me and tell me he/she has absolutely no problem with the sexual orientation his allah made me have and that his allah loves people of all sexual orientations and is pissed off because all those other muslims who claim allah is agin me for it are full of shit,  then after I hear him/her tell me that to my face then I will take it all back.  I will post and say I had the muslims all wrong and they're not all like that and I will personally apologize to him/her for thinking it.

Otherwise all you're saying to me is just empty politically correct rhetoric.




Political correctness is the last thing on my mind, and I'm not dragging anyone to your house to prove a point. When you have someone standing over you at Sonny's telling you it's a sin to eat pork, by all means let me know.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Islamic jurisprudence specifies which foods are ḥalāl (حَلَال "lawful") and which are ḥarām (حَرَامْ "unlawful"). This is derived from commandments found in the Qur'an, the holy book of Islam, as well as the Hadith and Sunnah, libraries cataloging things the Prophet Muhammad is reported to have said and done. Extensions of these rulings are issued, as fatwas...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_dietary_laws

So all those muslims are pefectly willing to let one man,  one lousy individual whose shit stank like everybody else's,  who was born not in 1970,  not in 1570,  but in fricking 570 (that's three digits, not four),  dictate what they eat and don't eat.

I take it back.  Even if you were willing to do so,  don't bring any one of them to my house.  
The only one I have any interest in meeting up with is one who had all that shit brainwashed into him by his parents and his surroundings,  but had enough common sense to run from it like a scalded cat.  Him/her would have my respect.  I might could learn something from someone with that much common sense.



Last edited by Bob on 6/13/2014, 1:08 pm; edited 1 time in total

Guest


Guest

Floridatexan wrote:
Bob wrote:Okay how bout this.  I'm now getting the feeling that just like seaoat "some of your best friends" must be muslims.

You have my phone number and you know where I live because you've visited my home.  If you would like to bring one of your muslim friends to meet me and tell me he/she has absolutely no problem with the sexual orientation his allah made me have and that his allah loves people of all sexual orientations and is pissed off because all those other muslims who claim allah is agin me for it are full of shit,  then after I hear him/her tell me that to my face then I will take it all back.  I will post and say I had the muslims all wrong and they're not all like that and I will personally apologize to him/her for thinking it.

Otherwise all you're saying to me is just empty politically correct rhetoric.




Political correctness is the last thing on my mind, and I'm not dragging anyone to your house to prove a point.  When you have someone standing over you at Sonny's telling you it's a sin to eat pork, by all means let me know.  

They are working on it.

Guest


Guest

Bob wrote:Besides,  what kind of fucking retards don't like good pork barbecue.
They'll eat chicken meat that's probably ransid from sitting out in the hot desert sun and have no problem with that.  But a good meal of pork ribs at Sonnys is "dirty" to them because some crackpot named mohammed who lived 1300 years ago tells them so.
Not to mention, I get a 25% senior discount at sonnys.  See if they can get that from the ayatollah.


Jews (also Semitic) are also forbidden from eating pork, and it has nothing to do with Mohammed. Are they also crackpots for their religious observance?

There are a lot of reasons to have hatred for militant Islamist. It's too bad that the entire religion gets a black eye because of the actions of a sect of bigots.

Sorta like all of Christianity vs. Southern Baptists.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Trying to excuse one wacky religion from it's wacky ideas by pointing out that other wacky religions also have wacky ideas, and telling that to me,
is like telling me Barack Obama is a great president only because George Bush was a shitty one.

Two wrongs don't make a right. And two wacky religions don't make either one of them any less wacky.


Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

But, and correct me if I'm wrong,  the jews don't want me to be jailed or killed because of my sexual orientation.  And they don't persecute women.  Even made one of them (woman)their head of state and that was a long time ago.



Last edited by Bob on 6/13/2014, 1:22 pm; edited 1 time in total

Guest


Guest

[quote="Bob"]Trying to excuse one wacky religion from it's wacky ideas by pointing out that other wacky religions also have wacky ideas,  and telling that to me,
is like telling me Barack Obama is a great president only because George Bush was a shitty one.

Two wrongs don't make a right.  And two wacky religions don't make either one of them any less wacky.


[/quote

Are there any religions that aren't "wacky" in your eyes?

Guest


Guest

Bob wrote:But, and correct me if I'm wrong,  the jews don't want me to be jailed or killed because of my sexual orientation.  And they don't persecute women.  Even made one of them (woman)their head of state and that was a long time ago.

LOL. Get a clue. There are a LOT of so-called christians right here that want people dead beçause of sexual orientation. You don't have to go half way around the world to find that sentiment. There's a GOP candidate in OK that wants to have a public vote on whether to stone gay people.

Now there's some outrage to get behind.

You have a much better chance of being struck by lightening than being assaulted by a Muslim.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

BRDNH2O wrote:

Are there any religions that aren't "wacky" in your eyes?

No they all have some wacky ideas, and that probably even includes my own religion, Sultanism.

But wackiness is not what I really object to. If it was I would have to object to my own self too.
About the only thing I object to is when a religion believer, any religion believer, wants to include me and everybody else in his wackiness. And he wants to tell me that I too have to live by the wacky ideas of some egomaniacal lunatic who lived two or three thousand years ago. And that if I don't I need to be harmed in some way because of it.

My religion, Sultanism, does not have any of that in it. It doesn't have "prophets" telling me or you what you can and cannot do.
I have something like a "god" (for lack of a better term) and I pray to my god just like muslims and jews and christians. But I don't want my prayer to be put on the courthouse wall or the public square and I don't want my prayer to be the basis for the country's fucking laws.

Any more questions?

ZVUGKTUBM

ZVUGKTUBM

After the Iraq fiasco, we definitely wound up holding the kupe doll.

http://www.best-electric-barbecue-grills.com

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

BRDNH2O wrote:
Bob wrote:But, and correct me if I'm wrong,  the jews don't want me to be jailed or killed because of my sexual orientation.  And they don't persecute women.  Even made one of them (woman)their head of state and that was a long time ago.

LOL.  Get a clue.  There are a LOT of so-called christians right here that want people dead beçause of sexual orientation.  You don't have to go half way around the world to find that sentiment. There's a GOP candidate in OK that wants to have a public vote on whether to stone gay people.  

Now there's some outrage to get behind.  

You have a much better chance of being struck by lightening than being assaulted by a Muslim.


I don't expect to be assaulted by a muslim. I'm fortunate enough to live in a country where muslims have very little influence. And I want to keep it that way.

Are you really going to try to school me on the homophobia of evangelical right-wing christians? You haven't been here long, have you. lol


Guest


Guest

Bob wrote:
BRDNH2O wrote:
Bob wrote:But, and correct me if I'm wrong,  the jews don't want me to be jailed or killed because of my sexual orientation.  And they don't persecute women.  Even made one of them (woman)their head of state and that was a long time ago.

LOL.  Get a clue.  There are a LOT of so-called christians right here that want people dead beçause of sexual orientation.  You don't have to go half way around the world to find that sentiment. There's a GOP candidate in OK that wants to have a public vote on whether to stone gay people.  

Now there's some outrage to get behind.  

You have a much better chance of being struck by lightening than being assaulted by a Muslim.


I don't expect to be assaulted by a muslim.  I'm fortunate enough to live in a country where muslims have very little influence.  And I want to keep it that way.

Are you really going to try to school me on the homophobia of evangelical right-wing christians?  You haven't been here long,  have you.  lol



No I haven't, but I do believe I am allowed to leap to as many conclusions as you are.

Your Obama/Bush analogy could also apply to you. Your bigotry towards Muslims is less "shitty" than their bigotry towards gays. LOL

I fear the American Taliban way more than I fear Muslims. Our version is gaining ground with the underbelly of conservatism. The disenfranchised angry white people who swoon over Cruz, Goehmert, and the rest of the tea party, the Taliban wing of the GOP.

Look at the people who are advocating a revolution and ask yourself; "are any of those anarchists even capable of governing"?

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob


Your Obama/Bush analogy could also apply to you.  Your bigotry towards Muslims is less "shitty" than their bigotry towards gays.  LOL

I like you,  you're not too prudish to use profanity.  lol

I fear the American Taliban way more than I fear Muslims.  

Well here's the deal.  I want you to do something this afternoon. At 4:06 PM central time to be exact.   I want you to either tune a radio to 1370 on the AM dial if you're located here in the panhandle.  Or if you're outside the panhandle,  I want you to click on this link and have your computer audio on...

http://www.1330weby.com/index.php/listen-live

If you're willing to do that,  you will hear "the american taliban" coming over the radio on a 25,000 watt AM radio station located right here.  The most powerful radio station between Tampa and New Orleans.

What you hear will make your hair stand on end.

Joanimaroni

Joanimaroni

J
Bob wrote:
BRDNH2O wrote:
Bob wrote:But, and correct me if I'm wrong,  the jews don't want me to be jailed or killed because of my sexual orientation.  And they don't persecute women.  Even made one of them (woman)their head of state and that was a long time ago.

LOL.  Get a clue.  There are a LOT of so-called christians right here that want people dead beçause of sexual orientation.  You don't have to go half way around the world to find that sentiment. There's a GOP candidate in OK that wants to have a public vote on whether to stone gay people.  

Now there's some outrage to get behind.  

You have a much better chance of being struck by lightening than being assaulted by a Muslim.





I don't expect to be assaulted by a muslim.  I'm fortunate enough to live in a country where muslims have very little influence.  And I want to keep it that way.

Are you really going to try to school me on the homophobia of evangelical right-wing christians?  You haven't been here long,  have you.  lol




Lol.....

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Actually if the weather breaks,  this time I'll be listening to WEBY and "Freedom Friday" in my car.  I want to go over and see the balloons in Foley later today.
Does anybody happen to know if the balloons have been grounded because of the weather?

Guest


Guest

Sal wrote:This was always the folly of removing a brutal and violent but effective tyrant from this region. But he was a symptom rather than the cause of Iraq's problems, Iraq is a nation which was drawn on maps in London and Paris. Cobbling together not just different sects and nationalities in Mesopotania, where many if not all of the Middle East's crossroads, invasion routes and contentions come together is an extremely explosive cocktail. The only way it could be held together is through brutal oppression and iron fisted rule. Saddam was a symptom of this situation, not the cause.

We are now seeing a great and violent collision of competing and opposed trajectories.

The divisions in the Syrian Civil War appear irreconcilable. There's an Alawi controlled region in the northwest, and a Druze division in the southwest. Most explosively, ISIS is fighting in both Iraq and Syria, in part to establish whether eastern Syria and northern Iraq should form a new nation. It's important to remember that ISIS is the only group that has been kicked out of Al Qaeda for being too brutal and committing too many atrocities against civilian populations, and that they are the group we would be fighting against in Iraq and one of the groups opposed to Assad in Syria. So, we're pretty well fucked on that front.

The main catalyst of the current crisis is the Iraqi government's desire to cut out the historically important but small Sunni minority in favor of a Shiite ethnic government. The reason the Iraqi military disintegrated so quickly is because Iraq is not really a state in any traditional sense of the word, and the militias are based on more solid regional ethnic divisions.

When Saddam was removed from the equation, it was inevitable that all of these factors would eventually collide.

It's a clusterfuck, and a direct result of the decision to invade and topple Saddam.

To understand this, you would have to possess at least a rudimentary understanding of cause and effect, a quality that Markle and PeeDawg sadly lack.

Saddam would have likely set off this bomb with his ambitions... if he had held kuwait his resources and capabilities would've grown exponentially. He had plans... and the other large powers there would've been forced to have stop him.

The great news is that our soldiers wouldn't have been in the middle of it... but the mic wins either way.

Joanimaroni

Joanimaroni

Religion New Jersey, NJ United States
Percent Religious 54.70% 48.78%
Catholic                37.62% 19.43%
LDS.                   0.37% 2.03%
Baptist                 2.33% 9.30%
Episcopalian        0.86% 0.63%
Pentecostal        0.94% 1.87%
Lutheran               0.92% 2.33%
Methodist               2.12% 3.93%
Presbyterian        1.64% 1.63%
Other Christian        2.81% 5.51%
Jewish               2.47% 0.73%
Eastern               0.82% 0.53%
Islam                       1.83% 0.84%

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

PkrBum wrote:

Saddam would have likely set off this bomb with his ambitions... if he had held kuwait his resources and capabilities would've grown exponentially. He had plans... and the other large powers there would've been forced to have stop him.

Saddam was a ruthless dictator but he wasn't stupid. He knew, as all dictators know including the one in north korea, that if he actually used a nuclear weapon against anyone, the western powers would vaporize his regime and him along with it.

But the same is not true of the ones who are right now marching on Baghdad. They have demonstrated that they don't have the same inhibitions. If they had possession of a nuke, they would use it on their enemy as fast as you can say "allah akbar". And if it's the United States who stops their conquest of Iraq, the United States will in their minds become the worst enemy they have ever had.


Guest


Guest

Bob wrote:
PkrBum wrote:

Saddam would have likely set off this bomb with his ambitions... if he had held kuwait his resources and capabilities would've grown exponentially. He had plans... and the other large powers there would've been forced to have stop him.

Saddam was a ruthless dictator but he wasn't stupid. He knew, as all dictators know including the one in north korea, that if he actually used a nuclear weapon against anyone, the western powers would vaporize his regime and him along with it.

But the same is not true of the ones who are right now marching on Baghdad. They have demonstrated that they don't have the same inhibitions. If they had possession of a nuke, they would use it on their enemy as fast as you can say "allah akbar". And if it's the United States who stops their conquest of Iraq, the United States will in their minds become the worst enemy they have ever had.



I don't disagree with anything you predict necessarily... but kuwait was a very rich and valuable commodity.

I think he'd have used those assets conventionally to start knocking over dominoes... nukes might've come into play... but they weren't necessary yet.

Sal

Sal

boards of FL wrote:
Well look at that.  PkrBum is once again at a loss for words when it is time to go deeper than a one-line interjection.  

Are glibertarians unable to articulate their beliefs, or embarrassed to articulate them?



Last edited by Sal on 6/13/2014, 4:28 pm; edited 1 time in total

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