Ask a Libertarian: Eposide 1 - The EPA

Since libertarians want to get rid of the EPA and revert back to an economy in which there is absolutely zero government oversight or regulation into how businesses operate and dispose of hazardous materials or waste, I'm interested in hearing an explanation as to how that would work, exactly.  Should the state of our environment improve?  Decline?  Is that question irrelevant because we will simply be better off with one less government agency, no matter at what cost?

Today, businesses are held accountable for their waste.  They have to dispose of hazardous materials in a manner such that they are not putting nearby communities at risk...er...a manner such that they are not "exerting force" (for the libertarians) on their neighbors.  Put another way, they must allocate resources towards addressing this issue, thus internalizing the cost of waste disposal and passing that cost on to their customers.

In libertarian-land, however, a business can simply dump its toxic waste in a nearby stream.   Over time, we may find that a community down stream from a toxic-dumping business begins to develop cancer at a rate greater than the population at large.  Put another way, toxic-dumping businesses would be able to pass on the cost of their waste disposal to people who don't even consume their products - (in the above example, this would be in the form of higher rates of disease).  As a result of this ability to dump their waste disposal cost on society at large in the form of a negative economic externality, this business would be able to offer its product at a cheaper price than it otherwise would in a world with an EPA and environmental regulation.  So it seems that libertarian-land's model would reward polluting businesses in the form of a cost incentive, and then saddle neighboring communities with the negative economic externalities such as toxic waste.

Is this how you envision this, libertarians?  Or is there a different way things would work out?  This is your chance.  You have everyone's attention.  Make the case for a world without an EPA and environmental regulation.

They cannot and will not answer your question because they are intellectually lazy or worse. Most on this forum are simply nihilist who under the guise of disjoined libertarian ideals want destruction of working government. They are like a child having a tantrum, rarely because they can give an alternative which is being ignored, but simply because like a child being told no........they want to destroy the no in their yelps and cries....without any concept of why the no is necessary and WHY the no has been given. Childlike nihilist who are having tantrums regularly on this forum and who are intellectually lazy or worse will not answer your question.......because to do so would give credence to no and make the entire tantrum silly.

Well with waste products like fluoride we would just put it in the public water supply and let the public drink it.... Oh wait we already do that. Let me think on it. Good question.

TEOTWAWKI wrote:Well with waste products like fluoride we would just put it in the public water supply and let the public drink it.... Oh wait we already do that.   Let me think on it.  Good question.  

You have a very valid point, IMHO. It's INDUSTRIAL fluoride...a byproduct (waste) from phosphate production. There is no reason to add fluoride to drinking water; it has been shown to CAUSE, instead of solve problems.

So this is it? No answer or explanation as to what would be expected in a world with no EPA or environmental regulation?

boards of FL wrote:So this is it?  No answer or explanation as to what would be expected in a world with no EPA or environmental regulation?  

West Virginia...nationwide.

I think everyone should have an EPA authority assigned to them and they should weigh every turd and bill you accordingly.

If we're going to demand the EPA enforce laws that close down our in country industries then they should apply equally to the countries that we trade with. Along with anti-trust laws, child labor laws, etc...

If ya' all are so worried about the environment and how people are treated then it should apply to the environment and people worldwide because it all affects us. If they're not good trading partners because they don't care about the environment or their own people then the trade agreement should be cancelled.

*****CHUCKLE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diOuUYcenW0

  

I guess some libertarians do not understand the concept of jurisdiction......all their huffing and puffing about blowing the house down, and they are collectively clueless on a narrowly drawn question, and are beyond clueless grasping the complexities of modern government. Not huffing and puffing and blowing the house down, and working to open the door with a key is a solution which they are too lazy to discuss...intellectual integrity takes effort.

Naw it's just that your solutions are always more regulations , along with that more government...so what's the point ? We say less government and you yell we are stupid ignorant and lazy..oh and F U.

Less government takes work and effort. It takes intelligence and application of technology to problems where efficiencies can be improved, or unnecessary parts of government can have their function consolidated or phased out.

Mindless generalities do nothing to reduce government. It creates a climate of confrontation rather than cooperation. In the end it is simple intellectual laziness.

2seaoat wrote:Less government takes work and effort.  It takes intelligence and application of technology to problems where efficiencies can be improved, or unnecessary parts of government can have their function consolidated or phased out.

Mindless generalities do nothing to reduce government.  It creates a climate of confrontation rather than cooperation.   In the end it is simple intellectual laziness.

Well you are all talk...give us your great plan..oh yeah make everyone scrap their SUVs and drive a Prius ..brilliant use technology that an economically dying country can't afford....oh you are blinding me with BS I can't take  it!..when you and boards get together it's like the perfect progressive bullshit storm...

Yeah, bro, but, like....flouride....and stuff. If government would just, like, get out of the way, man, the invisible hand would just clean up the environment for us.

It just would!

boards of FL wrote:Yeah, bro, but, like....flouride....and stuff.  If government would just, like, get out of the way, man, the invisible hand would just clean up the environment for us.

It just would!  

Fortunately after your generation gets cancer in the coming epidemic and croaks along with all your starving offspring from the Monsanto die off of all Bees and GMO monster crops the world will return to a fairly good condition so maybe all this is mute...yeah.

Oh but Teo the Government wouldn't let that happen..Bhahahahaha

I want billions more put into the EPA to study national trends in cancer clusters and comprehensive studies on air and water quality by the mile in this country with specific gps and compositions available for the public to see in real time. This database must be one prerequisite to reviewing EPA function. I saw a CSX derailment where 54 tanker loads of ethanol burned or was put out with fire compression chemicals and then the largest fish kill in the State's history and they never took water samples until three days after the kill, and never could prove a causal connection with the spill and the fish kill..

Not only are the regulations too complex, the action plans are woefully inadequate, and fail in their mission to first understand where our environment is now, and how can we effectively and efficiently improve the quality and protect American citizens.

The word is moot you lazy ignorant Teo !...naw mute works just fine you progressive government shills ! Now be Mute....

TEOTWAWKI wrote:Fortunately after your generation gets cancer in the coming epidemic and croaks along with all your starving offspring from the Monsanto die off of all Bees and GMO monster crops the world will return to a fairly good condition so maybe all this is mute...yeah.

Oh but Teo the Government wouldn't let that happen..Bhahahahaha

I realize you mean well, TEO, but after reading this post I question whether or not you understand what libertarian philosophy even is.

TEO, how do you guess an entity such as Monsanto would operate in an EPA-free economy with absolutely zero environmental regulation or oversight?

boards of FL wrote:

TEOTWAWKI wrote:Fortunately after your generation gets cancer in the coming epidemic and croaks along with all your starving offspring from the Monsanto die off of all Bees and GMO monster crops the world will return to a fairly good condition so maybe all this is mute...yeah.

Oh but Teo the Government wouldn't let that happen..Bhahahahaha

I realize you mean well, TEO, but after reading this post I question whether or not you even understand what libertarian philosophy even is, exactly.

TEO, how do you guess an entity such as Monsanto would operate in an EPA-free economy with absolutely zero environmental regulation?  

I think you don't understand and I can't blame you with public education being what it is. Monsanto operates with very little regulation right now. Corporations buy off the EPA all the time, so to continue to exist the EPA goes after little fish to make the news...It is sad you see government as your savior, very very sad as it will ultimately be all our demise.

TEOTWAWKI wrote:Monsanto operates with very little regulation right now.

And the question is: How would Monsanto operate in an economy with no EPA and no environmental regulation or oversight? Would they be better or worse, in your mind? More or less civically minded? Would the affect on the environment be positive or negative?

"Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master."
-- George Washington

boards of FL wrote:

TEOTWAWKI wrote:Monsanto operates with very little regulation right now.

And the question is:  How would Monsanto operate in an economy with no EPA and no environmental regulation or oversight?  Would they be better or worse, in your mind?  More or less civically minded?  Would the affect on the environment be positive or negative?

In a true Libertarian world most excesses would be controlled by the people's ability to buy from those that deliver what is best. This government has set up crony monopolies that the people have very little control over. We have been sold our own poison whereas if it were an open market and someone was found to be selling a bad product the market would punish them by people refusing to buy their crap and putting their money into responsible companies...but with government force controlling everything what is done is what is best for government and the people be damned.

You are wasting your time.....scratch the surface and you will sadly find superstition and the illusion of comprehension. The question was simple. The answer was absurd.

2seaoat wrote:You are wasting your time.....scratch the surface and you will sadly find superstition and the illusion of comprehension.  The question was simple.  The answer was absurd.

Is smug arrogant son of a bitch all you got ?...cause I don't see any solutions from you but" I want to spend Billions"...yeah we do that and where has that gotten us...IDIOT !

TEOTWAWKI wrote:In a true Libertarian world most excesses would be controlled by the people's ability to buy from those that deliver what is best. This government has set up crony monopolies that the people have very little control over. We have been sold our own poison whereas if it were an open market and someone was found to be selling a bad product the market would punish them by people refusing to buy their crap and putting their money into responsible companies...but with government force controlling everything what is done is  what is best for government and the people be damned.

Hahahahahahahaha!!!

boards of FL wrote:

TEOTWAWKI wrote:In a true Libertarian world most excesses would be controlled by the people's ability to buy from those that deliver what is best. This government has set up crony monopolies that the people have very little control over. We have been sold our own poison whereas if it were an open market and someone was found to be selling a bad product the market would punish them by people refusing to buy their crap and putting their money into responsible companies...but with government force controlling everything what is done is  what is best for government and the people be damned.

Hahahahahahahaha!!!

Cancers already spread to your brain ?...sorry man you'll never experience a true free enterprise system.