President Obama is playing 3d chess, while some still see a game of checkers

2seaoat wrote:There is no reason to blame anybody yet for your perceived lost game.  We are in the first inning, and the superior team has made fielding errors, and failed to get a hit in the first inning.   People are crying that the game is over and how awful the team played.   The game is 9 innings.   When we have three cycles with penalties.  I will have that discussion as to who is winning the game.   However, the fact that the game is even happening is a win for the better team........the other team tried turning the lights out, and flattening the team bus tires, but the fat lady just sang the national anthem and we are in the first inning...........talk to me at the stretch.

If the GOP failed to get a hit, the DEms have left men on base every inning and failed to score and now the GOP has a man on third with no outs in the bottom of the ninth.

I am not a big supporter of the Affordable Care Act. I am a supporter of medicare for all. I have understood this is the first step in the process. I think the screw ups are real in the web launch having launched one web site with concurrent user limitations, but that will be solved. The insurance companies are going to take their pound of flesh from Americans and the average American is getting wiser. The exchanges were brilliant for the end goal, which is to eliminate the middle man. It will happen. You are a full year from an election, and do you think it was by accident this was designed this way. Mr. Markle the ACA will not be repealed. Mr. Markle the President will not be impeached, and as I already said the house would pass a bill of impeachment simply for the President being black if it was put up for a vote. Mr. Markle there is no alternative to the ACA over the next three years as they work the punitive side of the equation, and then after the 2016 election the march to single payer.......it is crystal clear. I make no excuses for the screw ups.......they were unintentional and complete incompetence, but they will serve their purpose as the President deftly shifted the ball over to the insurance companies, and we know what they will do......could not have scripted this better.

2seaoat wrote:I am not a big supporter of the Affordable Care Act.  I am a supporter of medicare for all.   I have understood this is the first step in the process.   I think the screw ups are real in the web launch having launched one web site with concurrent user limitations, but that will be solved.   The insurance companies are going to take their pound of flesh from Americans and the average American is getting wiser.   The exchanges were brilliant for the end goal, which is to  eliminate the middle man.  It will happen.   You are a full year from an election, and do you think it was by accident this was designed this way.   Mr. Markle the ACA will not be repealed.  Mr. Markle the President will not be impeached, and as I already said the house would pass a bill of impeachment simply for the President being black if it was put up for a vote.  Mr. Markle there is no alternative to the ACA over the next three years as they work the punitive side of the equation, and then after the 2016 election the march to single payer.......it is crystal clear.   I make no excuses for the screw ups.......they were unintentional and complete incompetence, but they will serve their purpose as the President deftly shifted the ball over to the insurance companies, and we know what they will do......could not have scripted this better.

With Medicare for all...where will all the TRILLIONS of dollars come from?

Current Debt . . . $17.2 TRILLION (No budget approved for 2013)

Unfunded Liabilities (money we have PROMISED, do not have, nor do we have it coming in)

Social Security. . . . $16.6 TRILLION (10,000 Baby Boomers RETIRE EVERY DAY)  (How many workers are entering the job market daily?)

Prescription Drugs .$22.0 TRILLION

Medicare. . . . . . . . $87.5 TRILLION

Total Unfunded Liabilities $126.2 TRILLION!


Yo 2seaoat...no answer AGAIN?

Markle wrote:

2seaoat wrote:I am not a big supporter of the Affordable Care Act.  I am a supporter of medicare for all.   I have understood this is the first step in the process.   I think the screw ups are real in the web launch having launched one web site with concurrent user limitations, but that will be solved.   The insurance companies are going to take their pound of flesh from Americans and the average American is getting wiser.   The exchanges were brilliant for the end goal, which is to  eliminate the middle man.  It will happen.   You are a full year from an election, and do you think it was by accident this was designed this way.   Mr. Markle the ACA will not be repealed.  Mr. Markle the President will not be impeached, and as I already said the house would pass a bill of impeachment simply for the President being black if it was put up for a vote.  Mr. Markle there is no alternative to the ACA over the next three years as they work the punitive side of the equation, and then after the 2016 election the march to single payer.......it is crystal clear.   I make no excuses for the screw ups.......they were unintentional and complete incompetence, but they will serve their purpose as the President deftly shifted the ball over to the insurance companies, and we know what they will do......could not have scripted this better.

With Medicare for all...where will all the TRILLIONS of dollars come from?

Current Debt . . . $17.2 TRILLION (No budget approved for 2013)

Unfunded Liabilities (money we have PROMISED, do not have, nor do we have it coming in)

Social Security. . . . $16.6 TRILLION (10,000 Baby Boomers RETIRE EVERY DAY)  (How many workers are entering the job market daily?)

Prescription Drugs .$22.0 TRILLION

Medicare. . . . . . . . $87.5 TRILLION

Total Unfunded Liabilities $126.2 TRILLION!

Yep, crystal clear odumba is playing chess alright lol, he must be on the other countries team.

othershoe1030 wrote:I was talking to my insurance agent yesterday. He doesn't do health insurance but does do auto and homeowners. I mentioned the charge master lists used by hospitals, how the prices are just pulled out of thin air. My agent said car insurance rates are like that too. When he calls around looking for the best price he says the companies can never tell him how they arrived at their numbers. They just say the computer came up with it. Oh brother! Prices to insure the same car vary widely and no one can give a good reason.

I agree, why do we need the middle men insurance companies? If you are right sea oat then this will be fun enough to watch. Already people are seeing what some of these substandard plans really consist of and it is not pretty.

The cut the insurance companies take helps account for our high cost of health care over developed countries that pay less and get more for their health care money.

CDM's are not just pulled out of thin air. who told you that?

cost analysis are done for every test, every procedure. its EXTREMLY TEDIOUS and accurate.

Chrissy wrote:

othershoe1030 wrote:I was talking to my insurance agent yesterday. He doesn't do health insurance but does do auto and homeowners. I mentioned the charge master lists used by hospitals, how the prices are just pulled out of thin air. My agent said car insurance rates are like that too. When he calls around looking for the best price he says the companies can never tell him how they arrived at their numbers. They just say the computer came up with it. Oh brother! Prices to insure the same car vary widely and no one can give a good reason.

I agree, why do we need the middle men insurance companies? If you are right sea oat then this will be fun enough to watch. Already people are seeing what some of these substandard plans really consist of and it is not pretty.

The cut the insurance companies take helps account for our high cost of health care over developed countries that pay less and get more for their health care money.

CDM's are not just pulled out of thin air. who told you that?

cost analysis are done for every test, every procedure. its EXTREMLY TEDIOUS and accurate.

That is complete bullshit Chrissy . . . accurate means what? If our populations could identify the costs for treatments in every community there would would be glaring disparities because the costs vary greatly from one institution to another. Need a procedure? Shop around is all I can say . . . they are there to serve at the highest price they can get away with . . . duh!

I agree, why do we need the middle men insurance companies? If you are right sea oat then this will be fun enough to watch. Already people are seeing what some of these substandard plans really consist of and it is not pretty.

I am right. Certainly the plan was not to have the website crash. However, this has actually allowed the opponents of medicare for all actually expend resources and time to focus on crap policies and cancellations. The plan was always with the timing of this implementation to take the issue to the 2016 election showing the middle man and the 1% who are stripping America of its wealth. This strategy is clear. The tactical blunder of the website has actually furthered the strategy.

The central issue of the 2016 election will be migration from the current act to a public option, and finally to a transitional medicare for all with the debate beginning in the Democratic primary as to funding sources for the same. The beauty of this strategy is that two plus years after the implementation and penalties having been assessed, the American people are going to be educated, and the opponents will then have to defend a for profit insurance industry.......yikes.......custer found out what underestimation of your opponent leads.

2seaoat wrote:I agree, why do we need the middle men insurance companies? If you are right sea oat then this will be fun enough to watch. Already people are seeing what some of these substandard plans really consist of and it is not pretty.

I am right.  Certainly the plan was not to have the website crash.  However, this has actually allowed the opponents of medicare for all actually expend resources and time to focus on crap policies and cancellations.   The plan was always with the timing of this implementation to take the issue to the 2016 election showing the middle man and the 1% who are stripping America of its wealth.  This strategy is clear.  The tactical blunder of the website has actually furthered the strategy.

The central issue of the 2016 election will be migration from the current act to a public option, and finally to a transitional medicare for all with the debate beginning in the Democratic primary as to funding sources for the same.  The beauty of this strategy is that two plus years after the implementation and penalties having been assessed, the American people are going to be educated, and the opponents will then have to defend a for profit insurance industry.......yikes.......custer found out what underestimation of your opponent leads.

You repeatedly make that statement but you refuse to answer how we would pay for such a poor plan. Why?

Where will this money come from? Please don't say the "RICH", they don't have anywhere NEAR this much money.

Current Debt . . . $17.2 TRILLION (No budget approved for 2013)

Unfunded Liabilities (money we have PROMISED, do not have, nor do we have it coming in)

Social Security. . . . $16.6 TRILLION (10,000 Baby Boomers RETIRE EVERY DAY) (How many workers are entering the job market daily?)

Prescription Drugs .$22.0 TRILLION

Medicare. . . . . . . . $87.5 TRILLION

Total Unfunded Liabilities $126.2 TRILLION!

knothead wrote:

Chrissy wrote:

othershoe1030 wrote:I was talking to my insurance agent yesterday. He doesn't do health insurance but does do auto and homeowners. I mentioned the charge master lists used by hospitals, how the prices are just pulled out of thin air. My agent said car insurance rates are like that too. When he calls around looking for the best price he says the companies can never tell him how they arrived at their numbers. They just say the computer came up with it. Oh brother! Prices to insure the same car vary widely and no one can give a good reason.

I agree, why do we need the middle men insurance companies? If you are right sea oat then this will be fun enough to watch. Already people are seeing what some of these substandard plans really consist of and it is not pretty.

The cut the insurance companies take helps account for our high cost of health care over developed countries that pay less and get more for their health care money.

CDM's are not just pulled out of thin air. who told you that?

cost analysis are done for every test, every procedure. its EXTREMLY TEDIOUS and accurate.

That is complete bullshit Chrissy . . . accurate means what? If our populations could identify the costs for treatments in every community there would would be glaring disparities because the costs vary greatly from one institution to another. Need a procedure? Shop around is all I can say . . . they are there to serve at the highest price they can get away with . . . duh!    

of course there are differences. do you really think they just pull out a number lmao.

no way, the charge master price is created by finding the TRUE cost of whatever it is that your doing. Its very tedious because it involves every little step in the process, from the 5 seconds of FTE time a product spends being issued, etc etc. Ive had to go through this process a few times.

cost of multitudes of things differ from community to community, such as wage, taxes/benefits, supply cost, list goes on and on and yes a certain amount of profit is figured. Eve non profits need profit or they would never be able to have money for capital.

2seaoat wrote:It's all damage control and it's losing the battle at this point.


I would agree that damage control is part of it because there was real incompetence in this roll out, but the whole debate about the cancellations was planned and is bringing folks out of the weeds, and the political genius is that some will be left with defending insurance companies when folks are seeing the arbitrary pricing policies and obscene profits which have been made by the insurance companies........the middle man is about to be identified.......the elimination of the middle is the war.........you think they are losing the battle.....you are not paying attention.

There is no downside to the incompetence, because this was planned for the dead zone.....that period between election cycles.  It however allows the build up to the war strategic goal.......elimination of insurance companies for most of the health care system, and that will be the red hot debate late next summer.

Seaoat, I think you may be correct. It's a helluva good way for President Obama to bring the middleman to the forefront.

PBulldog2 wrote:

2seaoat wrote:It's all damage control and it's losing the battle at this point.


I would agree that damage control is part of it because there was real incompetence in this roll out, but the whole debate about the cancellations was planned and is bringing folks out of the weeds, and the political genius is that some will be left with defending insurance companies when folks are seeing the arbitrary pricing policies and obscene profits which have been made by the insurance companies........the middle man is about to be identified.......the elimination of the middle is the war.........you think they are losing the battle.....you are not paying attention.

There is no downside to the incompetence, because this was planned for the dead zone.....that period between election cycles.  It however allows the build up to the war strategic goal.......elimination of insurance companies for most of the health care system, and that will be the red hot debate late next summer.

Seaoat, I think you may be correct. It's a helluva good way for President Obama to bring the middleman to the forefront.

You people are bat shit crazy.

PBulldog2 wrote:

2seaoat wrote:It's all damage control and it's losing the battle at this point.


I would agree that damage control is part of it because there was real incompetence in this roll out, but the whole debate about the cancellations was planned and is bringing folks out of the weeds, and the political genius is that some will be left with defending insurance companies when folks are seeing the arbitrary pricing policies and obscene profits which have been made by the insurance companies........the middle man is about to be identified.......the elimination of the middle is the war.........you think they are losing the battle.....you are not paying attention.

There is no downside to the incompetence, because this was planned for the dead zone.....that period between election cycles.  It however allows the build up to the war strategic goal.......elimination of insurance companies for most of the health care system, and that will be the red hot debate late next summer.

Seaoat, I think you may be correct. It's a helluva good way for President Obama to bring the middleman to the forefront.

How's ObamaCare working out for you?

Chrissy wrote:

othershoe1030 wrote:I was talking to my insurance agent yesterday. He doesn't do health insurance but does do auto and homeowners. I mentioned the charge master lists used by hospitals, how the prices are just pulled out of thin air. My agent said car insurance rates are like that too. When he calls around looking for the best price he says the companies can never tell him how they arrived at their numbers. They just say the computer came up with it. Oh brother! Prices to insure the same car vary widely and no one can give a good reason.

I agree, why do we need the middle men insurance companies? If you are right sea oat then this will be fun enough to watch. Already people are seeing what some of these substandard plans really consist of and it is not pretty.

The cut the insurance companies take helps account for our high cost of health care over developed countries that pay less and get more for their health care money.

CDM's are not just pulled out of thin air. who told you that?

cost analysis are done for every test, every procedure. its EXTREMLY TEDIOUS and accurate.

Time Magazine did a story called the bitter pill. They reported on hospitals billing practices and the use of the charge master list. If you look at the attached article you will see that the prices are outrageous and cannot be explained by the hospitals administration.

I also found it very interesting that the prices paid by Medicare include not only the cost of the procedure or medicine, etc. but also the hospital's overhead including maintenance and employee salaries, etc. so  Medicare payment should not be construed as being some bare bones kind of ripoff but rather the basis for what is quite reasonable for the service. I think much of the health care costs Americans are paying are coming into question as Americans come face to face with our system. Thanks to the ACA, as sea oat has pointed out, people who haven't paid much attention to their policies, if they have one, and what they cover or don't cover.

They're from the "chargemaster," hospital spokesman Scott Orstad told Brill. The chargemaster is an enormous computer file that lists prices for thousands of products and services, and all hospitals maintain them.

But Brill reported that he did not find hospital administrators in Stamford or elsewhere who could explain the basis of chargemaster prices. Prices appear to be unrelated to actual cost, they vary from hospital to hospital, and they go up automatically.

Orstad told him not to pay attention to the chargemaster. "Those are not our real rates," Orstad told Brill. "It's a list we use internally in certain cases, but most people never pay those prices."

http://www.stamfordadvocate.com/local/article/Angela-Carella-If-you-go-to-the-hospital-beware-4303328.php#page-1