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FOR NEKOCHAN: One of the most prominent conservative republican voices in America calls Romney's remarks "stupid and arrogant".

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Nekochan
Sal
TEOTWAWKI
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Hospital Bob
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Nekochan

Nekochan

Here's a Democrat for Dreams, Knot, Bob, etc to love:

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/kaine-i-would-be-open-proposal-have-some-minimum-tax-level-everyone_652779.html

He is saying what I've said--that everyone (or most everyone) should pay something in federal income taxes. Every American should have a stake in how their own money is used for discretionary spending.

knothead

knothead

[quote="Nekochan"]Dreams, that attitude presumes that there is only so much money, that there is a limited amount of money and so the government should "help" divide it up.

The middle class is not burdened with most taxes, at least not most federal income taxes. You keep saying that, but it is not true. Where are you getting this? I'd like to see your source on that. [/quote

*********************************************************
I posted this for you today but you have chosen to ignore it but I'll try once more:

From the Citizens For Tax Justice:

TAX SHARE VS. INCOME SHARE

LOWEST 20% - EARN 3.4% INCOME - PAY 2.1% COMBINED FED./STATE/LOCAL TAX

2ND 20% - EARN 7.0% INCOME - PAY 5.3% FEDERAL/STATE/LOCAL TAX

MIDDLE 20% - EARN 11.4% INCOME - PAY10.3% FEDERAL/STATE/LOCAL TX

FOURTH 20% - EARN 18.7% INCOME - PAY 19.0% FED/STATE/LOCAL TAX

NEXT 20% - EARN 14.2% INCOME - PAY 15.0% FEDERAL/STATE/LOCAL TAX

TOP 1% - EARN 21.0% INCOME - PAY 21.6% FEDERAL/STATE/LOCAL TAX]

******************************************************



knothead

knothead

From the Tax Policy Center on the breakdown of Who Doesn't Pay Taxes:

THOSE WHO PAY INCOME TAX 53.6%

THOSE WHO DO NOT PAY INCOME TAX 28.3%
(But pay Payroll Tax)

ELDERLY 10.3%
(Do not pay income tax)

Non-Elderly, income under $20,000, 6.9%

Others 1.0%

Guest


Guest

Nekochan wrote:Here you go, Dreams. And for Knot, too, because he was focusing on the total tax burden. The rich STILL pay a higher percentage in taxes when all the taxes --federal income tax , federal payroll tax, state and local taxes are all added up.

http://www.ctj.org/pdf/taxday2012.pdf

No,that's not correct for the payroll taxes.The rich and I'm talking about the 1% don't pay payroll taxes or medicare and all that. Their income is from capital gains but you do see the middle class are paying the highest percentage of taxes. Your forgetting the 47% who didn't pay taxes the last couple of years was only a temporary thing due to the credits given to help the economy. In former years there were not the credits which zeroed out their tax liabilty like now but this won't last.

Guest


Guest

PkrBum wrote:
Dreamsglore wrote:
Nekochan wrote:Dreams, that attitude presumes that there is only so much money, that there is a limited amount of money and so the government should "help" divide it up.

The middle class is not burdened with most taxes, at least not most federal income taxes. You keep saying that, but it is not true. Where are you getting this? I'd like to see your source on that.

At a Senate Finance Committee hearing in May 2011, Senator Charles Grassley said, “According to the Joint Committee on Taxation, 49 percent of households are paying 100 percent of taxes coming in to the federal government” (meaning that the other 51 percent pay no federal tax whatsoever). At the same hearing, Cato Institute Senior Fellow Alan Reynolds asserted, “Poor people don’t pay taxes in this country.” In 2010, Fox Business host Stuart Varney said on Fox and Friends, “Yes, 47 percent of households pay not a single dime in taxes.”[13]

None of these assertions are correct. As the Tax Policy Center’s Howard Gleckman noted regarding a TPC estimate that almost half of Americans owed no federal income tax in 2009, “rarely has a bit of data been so misunderstood, or so misused.” Gleckman wrote:

Let me explain — repeat actually — what [the figure] means: About half of taxpayers paid no federal income tax last year. It does not mean they paid no tax at all. Many shelled out Social Security and Medicare payroll taxes. [….] Some paid property taxes and, it is fair to say, just about all of them paid sales taxes of one kind or another. So to say they pay no taxes is flat wrong.[14]

The reality is that the income tax is one of a number of types of taxes that individuals pay, both over the course of their lifetimes and in a given year, and it makes little sense to treat it as though it were the only tax that matters. Some 82 percent of working households pay more in payroll taxes than in federal income taxes.[15] In fact, low- and moderate-income people pay a much larger share of their incomes in federal payroll taxes than high-income people do: taxpayers in the bottom 20 percent of the income scale paid an average of 8.8 percent of their incomes in payroll taxes in 2007, compared to 1.6 percent of income for those in the top 1 percent of the income distribution (see Figure 2).[16]
At a Senate Finance Committee hearing in May 2011, Senator Charles Grassley said, “According to the Joint Committee on Taxation, 49 percent of households are paying 100 percent of taxes coming in to the federal government” (meaning that the other 51 percent pay no federal tax whatsoever). At the same hearing, Cato Institute Senior Fellow Alan Reynolds asserted, “Poor people don’t pay taxes in this country.” In 2010, Fox Business host Stuart Varney said on Fox and Friends, “Yes, 47 percent of households pay not a single dime in taxes.”[13]

http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=3505

agreed on some degree... but that same logic has to be used on the entire scenario. obamacare will tax/penalize and by "allowing" the federal reserve to print another stimulus it hits/taxes those that can least afford too. just because something isn't called a tax doesn't change it's effect. so truthfully... obama is raising taxes on the working poor and middle class... right?

I don't see how you figure the poor and middleclass will be "taxed" w/ Obamacare? They won't be penalized because they will have healthcare so where will the tax come from?

Guest


Guest

new cbo calculations are coming out as we learn more about obamacare. the number of "working poor" that will be forced to buy ins or be taxed/penalized has been adjusted both in number and tax brackets.

Guest


Guest

PkrBum wrote:new cbo calculations are coming out as we learn more about obamacare. the number of "working poor" that will be forced to buy ins or be taxed/penalized has been adjusted both in number and tax brackets.


The working poor will get subsidies. They are not going to have to pay for healthcare so there is no reason for them to be penalized.

PBulldog2

PBulldog2

Dreamsglore wrote:I don't think anybody w/ any sense ever thought Obama was going to pay their car payments.

I've never heard it either, Dreams. Not once. In fact, I think the "Obama will pay my car payment" notion is nothing but a myth.

Nekochan

Nekochan

PBulldog2 wrote:
Dreamsglore wrote:I don't think anybody w/ any sense ever thought Obama was going to pay their car payments.

I've never heard it either, Dreams. Not once. In fact, I think the "Obama will pay my car payment" notion is nothing but a myth.

My apologies. You're right, it wasn't the car payment, it was gas and the mortgage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P36x8rTb3jI


There are also these people who think Obama will pay their bills:

http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/story/2012-07-12/utility-scam/56178632/1



Last edited by Nekochan on 9/21/2012, 4:31 pm; edited 1 time in total

Nekochan

Nekochan

Dreamsglore wrote:
Nekochan wrote:Here you go, Dreams. And for Knot, too, because he was focusing on the total tax burden. The rich STILL pay a higher percentage in taxes when all the taxes --federal income tax , federal payroll tax, state and local taxes are all added up.

http://www.ctj.org/pdf/taxday2012.pdf

No,that's not correct for the payroll taxes.The rich and I'm talking about the 1% don't pay payroll taxes or medicare and all that. Their income is from capital gains but you do see the middle class are paying the highest percentage of taxes. Your forgetting the 47% who didn't pay taxes the last couple of years was only a temporary thing due to the credits given to help the economy. In former years there were not the credits which zeroed out their tax liabilty like now but this won't last.

Dreams, I'm going by the chart in the link I gave you. The rich still pay a higher percentage in total taxes, on average, than the poor or middle class. It's on that chart from the Citizens tax justice site that you referenced. http://www.ctj.org/pdf/taxday2012.pdf
Capital gains, even now, are 15%+. Hubby and I had to pay capital gains last year on our taxes. And we aren't rich. You're going to be hard pressed to find poor people paying a 15% federal tax rate, payroll and/or income tax.

Yella

Yella

Nekochan wrote:
PBulldog2 wrote:
Dreamsglore wrote:I don't think anybody w/ any sense ever thought Obama was going to pay their car payments.

I've never heard it either, Dreams. Not once. In fact, I think the "Obama will pay my car payment" notion is nothing but a myth.

My apologies. You're right, it wasn't the car payment, it was gas and the mortgage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P36x8rTb3jI


There are also these people who think Obama will pay their bills:

http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/story/2012-07-12/utility-scam/56178632/1

Do you think Romney should man up and reveal his last ten years of tax returns or should he keep them tucked away?

A Republican relative told me that if Romney has not paid taxes he would be proud of him for being smart enough to dodge them and would by that measure be a much better President than Obama.

http://warpedinblue,blogspot.com/

Nekochan

Nekochan

No, I don't think there is any reason for Romney to release 10 years of returns. He's released 2 full years of returns and a summary of his taxes paid from the last 20 years.

Do you think there are more important issues in this country than what Romney paid in taxes 10 years ago?

Yella

Yella

Nekochan wrote:No, I don't think there is any reason for Romney to release 10 years of returns. He's released 2 full years of returns and a summary of his taxes paid from the last 20 years.

Do you think there are more important issues in this country than what Romney paid in taxes 10 years ago?

I think Romney has defined himself as a hypocrite by his dodging of a huge issue among taxpaying Americans who would see him as also a phony if he has not paid his full share while the rest of us struggle..

http://warpedinblue,blogspot.com/

Guest


Guest

Yella wrote:
Nekochan wrote:No, I don't think there is any reason for Romney to release 10 years of returns. He's released 2 full years of returns and a summary of his taxes paid from the last 20 years.

Do you think there are more important issues in this country than what Romney paid in taxes 10 years ago?

I think Romney has defined himself as a hypocrite by his dodging of a huge issue among taxpaying Americans who would see him as also a phony if he has not paid his full share while the rest of us struggle..

do you think that he broke the law?

Did he make the law?

or have you become another wealth envy person?

obama paid less taxes than me too.

the class envy is out of control.

why dont you all work to change the laws instead of attacking someone who is following them?

and then we can get rid of all these nasty wealthy people, which would include some really wealthy lefties

Im all for it.

Guest


Guest

Ha Ha! wrote:
Yella wrote:
Nekochan wrote:No, I don't think there is any reason for Romney to release 10 years of returns. He's released 2 full years of returns and a summary of his taxes paid from the last 20 years.

Do you think there are more important issues in this country than what Romney paid in taxes 10 years ago?

I think Romney has defined himself as a hypocrite by his dodging of a huge issue among taxpaying Americans who would see him as also a phony if he has not paid his full share while the rest of us struggle..

do you think that he broke the law?

Did he make the law?

or have you become another wealth envy person?

obama paid less taxes than me too.

the class envy is out of control.

why dont you all work to change the laws instead of attacking someone who is following them?

and then we can get rid of all these nasty wealthy people, which would include some really wealthy lefties

Im all for it.

Obama paid less taxes than you? Obama makes $400,000 SALARY which is taxes at a high rate and you really expect us to believe you paid more in taxes? LOL!

Yella

Yella

Dreamsglore wrote:
Ha Ha! wrote:
Yella wrote:
Nekochan wrote:No, I don't think there is any reason for Romney to release 10 years of returns. He's released 2 full years of returns and a summary of his taxes paid from the last 20 years.

Do you think there are more important issues in this country than what Romney paid in taxes 10 years ago?

I think Romney has defined himself as a hypocrite by his dodging of a huge issue among taxpaying Americans who would see him as also a phony if he has not paid his full share while the rest of us struggle..

do you think that he broke the law?

Did he make the law?

or have you become another wealth envy person?

obama paid less taxes than me too.

the class envy is out of control.

why dont you all work to change the laws instead of attacking someone who is following them?

and then we can get rid of all these nasty wealthy people, which would include some really wealthy lefties

Im all for it.

Obama paid less taxes than you? Obama makes $400,000 SALARY which is taxes at a high rate and you really expect us to believe you paid more in taxes? LOL!

Very good, Dreams

http://warpedinblue,blogspot.com/

Guest


Guest

Yella wrote:
Dreamsglore wrote:
Ha Ha! wrote:
Yella wrote:
Nekochan wrote:No, I don't think there is any reason for Romney to release 10 years of returns. He's released 2 full years of returns and a summary of his taxes paid from the last 20 years.

Do you think there are more important issues in this country than what Romney paid in taxes 10 years ago?

I think Romney has defined himself as a hypocrite by his dodging of a huge issue among taxpaying Americans who would see him as also a phony if he has not paid his full share while the rest of us struggle..

do you think that he broke the law?

Did he make the law?

or have you become another wealth envy person?

obama paid less taxes than me too.

the class envy is out of control.

why dont you all work to change the laws instead of attacking someone who is following them?

and then we can get rid of all these nasty wealthy people, which would include some really wealthy lefties

Im all for it.

Obama paid less taxes than you? Obama makes $400,000 SALARY which is taxes at a high rate and you really expect us to believe you paid more in taxes? LOL!

Very good, Dreams

ummm... not really. I'm sure she meant effective tax rate... which is the same trick that the leftists use to cry "fair share" to promote class warfare and incite wealth envy.

Yella

Yella

PkrBum wrote:
Yella wrote:
Dreamsglore wrote:
Ha Ha! wrote:
Yella wrote:
Nekochan wrote:No, I don't think there is any reason for Romney to release 10 years of returns. He's released 2 full years of returns and a summary of his taxes paid from the last 20 years.

Do you think there are more important issues in this country than what Romney paid in taxes 10 years ago?

I think Romney has defined himself as a hypocrite by his dodging of a huge issue among taxpaying Americans who would see him as also a phony if he has not paid his full share while the rest of us struggle..

do you think that he broke the law?

Did he make the law?

or have you become another wealth envy person?

obama paid less taxes than me too.

the class envy is out of control.

why dont you all work to change the laws instead of attacking someone who is following them?

and then we can get rid of all these nasty wealthy people, which would include some really wealthy lefties

Im all for it.

Obama paid less taxes than you? Obama makes $400,000 SALARY which is taxes at a high rate and you really expect us to believe you paid more in taxes? LOL!

Very good, Dreams

ummm... not really. I'm sure she meant effective tax rate... which is the same trick that the leftists use to cry "fair share" to promote class warfare and incite wealth envy.

Romney refuses to divulge his past ten years of returns for one very simple reason. HE HAS SOMETHING TO HIDE. Everyone with a brain knows this.

http://warpedinblue,blogspot.com/

Guest


Guest

PkrBum wrote:
Yella wrote:
Dreamsglore wrote:
Ha Ha! wrote:
Yella wrote:
Nekochan wrote:No, I don't think there is any reason for Romney to release 10 years of returns. He's released 2 full years of returns and a summary of his taxes paid from the last 20 years.

Do you think there are more important issues in this country than what Romney paid in taxes 10 years ago?

I think Romney has defined himself as a hypocrite by his dodging of a huge issue among taxpaying Americans who would see him as also a phony if he has not paid his full share while the rest of us struggle..

do you think that he broke the law?

Did he make the law?

or have you become another wealth envy person?

obama paid less taxes than me too.

the class envy is out of control.

why dont you all work to change the laws instead of attacking someone who is following them?

and then we can get rid of all these nasty wealthy people, which would include some really wealthy lefties

Im all for it.

Obama paid less taxes than you? Obama makes $400,000 SALARY which is taxes at a high rate and you really expect us to believe you paid more in taxes? LOL!

Very good, Dreams

ummm... not really. I'm sure she meant effective tax rate... which is the same trick that the leftists use to cry "fair share" to promote class warfare and incite wealth envy.

Guest


Guest

Dreamsglore wrote:
PkrBum wrote:
Yella wrote:
Dreamsglore wrote:
Ha Ha! wrote:
Yella wrote:
Nekochan wrote:No, I don't think there is any reason for Romney to release 10 years of returns. He's released 2 full years of returns and a summary of his taxes paid from the last 20 years.

Do you think there are more important issues in this country than what Romney paid in taxes 10 years ago?

I think Romney has defined himself as a hypocrite by his dodging of a huge issue among taxpaying Americans who would see him as also a phony if he has not paid his full share while the rest of us struggle..

do you think that he broke the law?

Did he make the law?

or have you become another wealth envy person?

obama paid less taxes than me too.

the class envy is out of control.

why dont you all work to change the laws instead of attacking someone who is following them?

and then we can get rid of all these nasty wealthy people, which would include some really wealthy lefties

Im all for it.

Obama paid less taxes than you? Obama makes $400,000 SALARY which is taxes at a high rate and you really expect us to believe you paid more in taxes? LOL!

Very good, Dreams

ummm... not really. I'm sure she meant effective tax rate... which is the same trick that the leftists use to cry "fair share" to promote class warfare and incite wealth envy.

Effective tax rate? What is that? Are you talking about adjusted gross income? You don't really think someone who works in a lab makes even close to $400,000, do you?

Guest


Guest

i think she paid a higher percentage as tax... so did i... although in total obama and romney paid much more.

isn't that the rationalized propaganda that the left uses to say that the wealthy don't pay their fair share?

Nekochan

Nekochan

Yella, Romney's accounting firm gave a notarized statement with a summary of 20 years of the Romneys' taxes. Romney's average rate over 20 years was around 20% with a low of around 13%.

Here's a pretty good article explaining why there are different rates for different types of income. From Slate, not exactly a right wing source. Of course, if all that matters to someone is seeing 10 years of Romney's tax returns, I very much doubt they'd vote for him, anyway. I think that the people hollering about Romney's taxes would never vote for him, regardless.

Why Mitt Romney's Effective Tax Rate Is So Low And Why It Probably Should Be

http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2012/09/21/mitt_romney_s_effective_tax_rate_is_very_low_most_economists_think_it_should_be_.html


Yella

Yella

Nekochan wrote:Yella, Romney's accounting firm gave a notarized statement with a summary of 20 years of the Romneys' taxes. Romney's average rate over 20 years was around 20% with a low of around 13%.

Here's a pretty good article explaining why there are different rates for different types of income. From Slate, not exactly a right wing source. Of course, if all that matters to someone is seeing 10 years of Romney's tax returns, I very much doubt they'd vote for him, anyway. I think that the people hollering about Romney's taxes would never vote for him, regardless.

Why Mitt Romney's Effective Tax Rate Is So Low And Why It Probably Should Be

http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2012/09/21/mitt_romney_s_effective_tax_rate_is_very_low_most_economists_think_it_should_be_.html



Neko, I still would like to see something more definitive.

http://warpedinblue,blogspot.com/

Nekochan

Nekochan

Yella wrote:
Nekochan wrote:Yella, Romney's accounting firm gave a notarized statement with a summary of 20 years of the Romneys' taxes. Romney's average rate over 20 years was around 20% with a low of around 13%.

Here's a pretty good article explaining why there are different rates for different types of income. From Slate, not exactly a right wing source. Of course, if all that matters to someone is seeing 10 years of Romney's tax returns, I very much doubt they'd vote for him, anyway. I think that the people hollering about Romney's taxes would never vote for him, regardless.

Why Mitt Romney's Effective Tax Rate Is So Low And Why It Probably Should Be

http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2012/09/21/mitt_romney_s_effective_tax_rate_is_very_low_most_economists_think_it_should_be_.html



Neko, I still would like to see something more definitive.

Yella, what I think is that you would never vote for Romney, regardless. The whole damn world is falling apart. Frankly, I don't care what Romney OR Obama paid in taxes 10 years ago. I don't even care where Obama was born. If he were doing a good job as President, none of that would matter. He's not doing a good job and it still doesn't matter.

Guest


Guest

PkrBum wrote:i think she paid a higher percentage as tax... so did i... although in total obama and romney paid much more.

isn't that the rationalized propaganda that the left uses to say that the wealthy don't pay their fair share?


In order for her to do that she would have to make close to that salary.You can't be serious in thinking she would be making that much money working as a medical technologist. I mean seriously.

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