Self-hating Americans: What the CIA report says about the American left

boards of FL wrote:

Damaged Eagle wrote:

2seaoat wrote:Those individuals who authorized torture should be held accountable.  You start with the legal interpretations.   They must lose their law licenses at a minimum, and possible face criminal charges.

The fact that a taxi driver in Afghanastan is not wearing a uniform does not give any shelter to those who snatched him up and tortured an innocent man.   Those who authorized the torture must be held responsible.

You can prove that waterboarding violates the terms set forth in the Geneva Convention and/or International Law?

Do you even know what the Geneva Convention says about the treatment of prisoners?

*****SMILE*****

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQzUCO7rG0M

Who cares about whether the Geneva Convention was violated or not?  Do you get your moral compass from the letter of the Geneva Convention?  What if the Geneva Convention said "It is OK to rape and murder children who reside in countries that you occupy during a time of war", would you be OK with that simply by virtue of the fact that the Geneva Convention says it?  

KarlRove wrote:I love how sal wants to judge those who prosecuted the war when he wasnt even a part of it. I think that's referred to asa monday morning qb .

Damaged Eagle wrote:My suggestion to you is that you get off your high horse and quit thinking that your moral values are so much better than others. Especially when your Nobel Champion Of Peace is more than willing to bomb another sovereign nation back into the stone age without Congressional approval or pretty much decimate a wedding party for one or two suspected terrorists.

2seaoat wrote:You can prove that waterboarding violates the terms set forth in the Geneva Convention and/or International Law?

Do you even know what the Geneva Convention says about the treatment of prisoners?


Please turn the dimmer switch on your light bulb up a little bit.  You do not even understand how war criminals are prosecuted.  States have the primary obligation to prosecute a person who has committed a war crime against their citizens.  A state may choose to discharge their obligation to prosecute and to do an international tribunal or  mixed tribunal.  The problem with most of these mixed tribunals involve the United Nations which America could veto indictments against American officials.  So the nation state will need to bring those charges, but we cleverly have exemptions from prosecution signed by those nations we have invaded.  However, if that state is overthrown, the successor most certainly can authorize war criminal indictments.   Now is a new government in Iraq going to come to the United States and arrest Dick Cheney.  Nope.   However, like the Israelis tracking down war criminals, he could be kidnapped and transported to that state for trial, and hanging if found guilty........The target may be one of many lawyers who declared that torture was not torture, and it may not be a capital offense, but involve a long prison term in that country's penal system.......well organized kidnappers could put the fear of God in about 200 people who knowingly developed torture and war crimes as a modus operandi

Bob wrote:

Damaged Eagle wrote:

Just prior to my arriving at a new command in Italy there was a dependent wife who was driving to Naples to go to the exchange. Along the way she passed a carabinieri (Italian police) who was standing at the side of the road waving his lollipop sign that they carry. He waved it at her as she approached, which means that she should pull over to be inspected, but she did not know what it meant so she kept driving. They pulled over forty slugs out of the back of car and the dependent wife was in the hospital for over six months in critical and/or serious condition...

That just helps support the position I took on this in my last post.  
Mistakes CAN and WILL be made.  By ANY authority.
It's one thing when those mistakes lead to unjust imprisonment.
But when they lead to either torture or an execution.  it goes beyond my willingness to tolerate it.

boards of FL wrote:

Damaged Eagle wrote:My suggestion to you is that you get off your high horse and quit thinking that your moral values are so much better than others. Especially when your Nobel Champion Of Peace is more than willing to bomb another sovereign nation back into the stone age without Congressional approval or pretty much decimate a wedding party for one or two suspected terrorists.

How many times do I have to explain the concept of the lesser of two evils?

Let's assume there is a runaway train approaching a fork in the tracks.  You have the ability to decide the direction of the train after the fork.   Sending it to the right will result in the death of 10 people.  Sending it to the left will result in the death of 100 people.

What will you do?  Either way, people will die.  Left, right, or no action, you will have blood on your hands.  Isn't it your duty to influence the situation in a way that minimizes death?

Me, personally, I would divert the train to the right killing the 10 and saving the 100.

PkrBum, however, would take no action and proclaim that he is morally superior.

What would Damaged do?

And beyond the inevitable election of democrats and republicans, are you honestly telling me that you find nothing wrong - in your moral code - with torture?

Damaged Eagle wrote:

boards of FL wrote:

Damaged Eagle wrote:My suggestion to you is that you get off your high horse and quit thinking that your moral values are so much better than others. Especially when your Nobel Champion Of Peace is more than willing to bomb another sovereign nation back into the stone age without Congressional approval or pretty much decimate a wedding party for one or two suspected terrorists.

How many times do I have to explain the concept of the lesser of two evils?

Let's assume there is a runaway train approaching a fork in the tracks.  You have the ability to decide the direction of the train after the fork.   Sending it to the right will result in the death of 10 people.  Sending it to the left will result in the death of 100 people.

What will you do?  Either way, people will die.  Left, right, or no action, you will have blood on your hands.  Isn't it your duty to influence the situation in a way that minimizes death?

Me, personally, I would divert the train to the right killing the 10 and saving the 100.

PkrBum, however, would take no action and proclaim that he is morally superior.

What would Damaged do?

And beyond the inevitable election of democrats and republicans, are you honestly telling me that you find nothing wrong - in your moral code - with torture?

Are the ten good people and the one hundred convicted convicts who've committed heinous crimes against others?

What makes you think your moral code is superior to someone else's?

What makes you think your moral code is superior to someone else's?

PkrBum wrote:What if buildings had continued to be blown up or a plot to do that found... and ksm was in your grasp?

PkrBum wrote:It all seems very clear now... but even pelosi went along with the program at the time.

TEOTWAWKI wrote:I would drop on the train from a helicopter reverse the engines throw on the  brakes and stop the train saving the screaming Swedish bikini team in the bedroom cars and spend the rest of the day comforting them....

boards of FL wrote:

TEOTWAWKI wrote:I would drop on the train from a helicopter reverse the engines throw on the  brakes and stop the train saving the screaming Swedish bikini team in the bedroom cars and spend the rest of the day comforting them....

Yes, but you don't live in reality, so....

boards of FL wrote:there is no reason to believe that torture is an effective means of extracting the information that you need.

TEOTWAWKI wrote:The MIC has instigated this eternal war for profit all along.They create enemies in order to have a reason to produce weapons systems and make obscene profits...
Let's see, Karl that makes you a tool.

KarlRove wrote:Torture ought to be on the minds of all our enemies.  They should realize that because their side will willingly do so to our folks, we will be happy to give them the same to the Nth degree.  It ought to be something they fear and fear a lot.  It ought to be a reason they think twice about fighting us.  See, the folks we're fighting in the GWOT are ones who respect strength and power.  Obama exudes none of that.  He exudes hemming, hawing, and drawing red lines he won't enforce.  Now that the other side understands Obama can be pushed around, they do what they want and when they want. For example see Assad in Syria, Putin, China on emissions,  and Iran on nukes.  

The sad part is we have too many people not willing to fight like we did in WWII and to end it once and for all when we get into conflicts.

KarlRove wrote:

TEOTWAWKI wrote:The MIC has instigated this eternal war for profit all along.They create enemies in order to have a reason to produce weapons systems and make obscene profits...
Let's see, Karl that makes you a tool.

Keeps me employed.

KarlRove wrote:

TEOTWAWKI wrote:The MIC has instigated this eternal war for profit all along.They create enemies in order to have a reason to produce weapons systems and make obscene profits...
Let's see, Karl that makes you a tool.

Keeps me employed.

boards of FL wrote:

KarlRove wrote:

TEOTWAWKI wrote:The MIC has instigated this eternal war for profit all along.They create enemies in order to have a reason to produce weapons systems and make obscene profits...
Let's see, Karl that makes you a tool.

Keeps me employed.

So you're not only an idiot, but you're morally bankrupt as well.

Your family must be proud.

KarlRove wrote:Torture ought to be on the minds of all our enemies.  They should realize that because their side will willingly do so to our folks, we will be happy to give them the same to the Nth degree.  It ought to be something they fear and fear a lot.  It ought to be a reason they think twice about fighting us.  See, the folks we're fighting in the GWOT are ones who respect strength and power.  Obama exudes none of that.  He exudes hemming, hawing, and drawing red lines he won't enforce.  Now that the other side understands Obama can be pushed around, they do what they want and when they want. For example see Assad in Syria, Putin, China on emissions,  and Iran on nukes.  

The sad part is we have too many people not willing to fight like we did in WWII and to end it once and for all when we get into conflicts.