Religion and Politics, Really?

Floridatexan wrote:

No one has conclusively linked Osama Bin Laden to the 9/11 attacks.   

No one writing on 9/11 conspiracy websites has done that.  
But a great number of actual journalists from around the world have discovered every detail of Bin Laden's involvement and have published it for all of us to read.
The problem is the internet is so cluttered with baloney it's becoming very very difficult to find the actual journalism.

Bob wrote:

othershoe1030 wrote:And I suppose you think the former I posted is contradicted by what you have posted....religious and moral....is someone that believes in something greater than himself and realizes that he must regard his fellow man as valuable as himself.....those two principles are held by those that love the constitution

Let a persons religion enlighten him. He can act accordingly in the public sphere but let's not have the government actively enmesh with any particular religion. No good comes from that.

It will always fall on deaf ears,  othershoe.  Why?  Because muslims believe with all their heart and soul that their book is "the word of god".  So how can they ever accept that man's law should supercede god's law.
Just like christians who believe with all their heart and soul that their book is "the word of god".  They too have to make god's law be greater than man's law.

Where the problem comes in is that muslims don't believe their god should only run their lives.  And christians don't believe their god should only run their lives either.   They both are firmly convinced that each's god is the god for all of us and should rule over all of us,  not just them.

I haven't seen any Christians lining people up in front of ditches and summarily executing each person not a Christian. Not just one person, but lines of people with their hands tied behind their backs and then as they bleed out from the shot to the head, a full magazine of 7.62mm riddles each body. Let me know when you see that happening. I can guide you to videos of Sunnis doing this to Shia and Christians all across Iraq.

How about I guide you to a video,  pacedog.  This one was on the "pro-obama and pro-muslim state-run mainstream media".

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/coptic-christians-of-egypt/

So now you have videos showing muslims persecuting christians and I have a video showing muslims persecuting christians.
Muslims are indeed persecuting christians. We're all in agreement.

But local talk radio station WEBY is not muslim. It's all christian all the time.
And it fills the airwaves with christians who trash me and tell me I'm going to hell. And if those christians had their way they would make southern baptist the official religion and they would put me in jail.
And if you or chrissy think that just because muslims are worse crackpots that's supposed to make me love those ignorant cracker christians then neither you or her are as smart as I gave you credit for.

How is that any different from bombing a country to hell and killing innocent civilians? Leaving them with depleted uranium and no infrastructure? Dead is dead.

http://www.salon.com/2002/10/17/zinni/

THURSDAY, OCT 17, 2002 05:40 PM CDT


“I’m not sure which planet they live on”

Hawks in the Bush administration may be making deadly miscalculations on Iraq, says Gen. Anthony Zinni, Bush's Middle East envoy.
ERIC BOEHLERT

"President Bush continues to encounter war critics in the unlikeliest of places — the United States military, for example. Last summer, retired Gen. Brent Scowcroft, who served as national security advisor to Bush’s father during the Gulf War, bluntly expressed his doubt about a unilateral war against Iraq. A few weeks later, a trio of four-star generals appeared before Congress to echo that concern.

One of them was Gen. Wesley Clark, a former NATO military commander. “If we go in unilaterally, or without the full weight of international organizations behind us, if we go in with a very sparse number of allies, if we go in without an effective information operation … we’re liable to supercharge recruiting for al-Qaida,” Clark said.

Now comes retired Marine Gen. Anthony Zinni, former head of Central Command for U.S. forces in the Middle East, who has worked recently as the State Department’s envoy to the region with a mission to encourage talks between Palestinians and Israelis. Zinni, a Purple Heart recipient who served in Vietnam and helped command forces in the Gulf War and in Somalia, spoke last Thursday in Washington at the Middle East Institute’s annual conference and laid out his own reservations about a potential war with Iraq.

In a keynote address striking for its critical assessment of the Bush administration, Zinni stressed the need to get the Israeli-Palestinian peace process back on track, build a broad coalition against Iraq, create trust among allies in the region — and put Saddam Hussein’s threat in perspective.

He also took issue with hawks in and around the administration who downplay the importance of Arab sentiment in the region. “I’m not sure which planet they live on,” Zinni said, “because it isn’t the one that I travel.” And he challenged their suggestion that installing a new Iraqi government will not be especially difficult. “God help us,” he said, “if we think this transition will occur easily.”

Following his speech, in an exchange moderated by former U.S. ambassador to Israel Edward Walker, Zinni answered questions from the audience. In that session he was even more pointed as he discussed the possible consequences of an attack on Iraq and why war should always be used only as a last resort..."

I consider myself a Christian, but I do not align myself with people who think dinosaurs roamed the Earth with man, or who practice the "prosperity gospel", or think dancing is a sin, who advocate the "rehabilitation" of homosexuals or outright killing them, or who advocate war as a "christian" principle. Remember Jerry Falwell (burn in hell), who opposed an end to South African apartheid? I also don't believe that "born again" equates to wiping the slate clean.

***************

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/oct/07/iraq.usa

George Bush: 'God told me to end the tyranny in Iraq'

President told Palestinians God also talked to him about Middle East peace

Ewen MacAskill

The Guardian, Thursday 6 October 2005



"George Bush has claimed he was on a mission from God when he launched the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq, according to a senior Palestinian politician in an interview to be broadcast by the BBC later this month.
Mr Bush revealed the extent of his religious fervour when he met a Palestinian delegation during the Israeli-Palestinian summit at the Egpytian resort of Sharm el-Sheikh, four months after the US-led invasion of Iraq in 2003.

One of the delegates, Nabil Shaath, who was Palestinian foreign minister at the time, said: "President Bush said to all of us: 'I am driven with a mission from God'. God would tell me, 'George go and fight these terrorists in Afghanistan'. And I did. And then God would tell me 'George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq'. And I did."

Mr Bush went on: "And now, again, I feel God's words coming to me, 'Go get the Palestinians their state and get the Israelis their security, and get peace in the Middle East'. And, by God, I'm gonna do it."

Mr Bush, who became a born-again Christian at 40, is one of the most overtly religious leaders to occupy the White House, a fact which brings him much support in middle America..."

by Bob Today at 9:20 am
How about I guide you to a video, pacedog. This one was on the "pro-obama and pro-muslim state-run mainstream media".

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/coptic-christians-of-egypt/
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Bob. I am in agreement with you. No Christians are out summarily killing Muslims, it is vice versa

http://www.gq.com/news-politics/newsmakers/200905/donald-rumsfeld-administration-peers-detractors

And He Shall Be Judged

Former defense secretary Donald Rumsfeld has always answered his detractors by claiming that history will one day judge him kindly. But as he waits for that day, a new group of critics—his administration peers—are suddenly speaking out for the first time. What they're saying? It isn't pretty
BY ROBERT DRAPER
June 2009

"ON THE MORNING OF Thursday, April 10, 2003, Donald Rumsfeld's Pentagon prepared a top-secret briefing for George W. Bush. This document, known as the Worldwide Intelligence Update, was a daily digest of critical military intelligence so classified that it circulated among only a handful of Pentagon leaders and the president; Rumsfeld himself often delivered it, by hand, to the White House. The briefing's cover sheet generally featured triumphant, color images from the previous days' war efforts: On this particular morning, it showed the statue of Saddam Hussein being pulled down in Firdos Square, a grateful Iraqi child kissing an American soldier, and jubilant crowds thronging the streets of newly liberated Baghdad. And above these images, and just below the headline SECRETARY OF DEFENSE, was a quote that may have raised some eyebrows. It came from the Bible, from the book of Psalms: "Behold, the eye of the Lord is on those who fear Him…To deliver their soul from death."

This mixing of Crusades-like messaging with war imagery, which until now has not been revealed, had become routine. On March 31, a U.S. tank roared through the desert beneath a quote from Ephesians: “Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand.” On April 7, Saddam Hussein struck a dictatorial pose, under this passage from the First Epistle of Peter: “It is God's will that by doing good you should silence the ignorant talk of foolish men.” (To see these and more Bush-administration intelligence cover sheets, visit GQ.com's exclusive slideshow).

These cover sheets were the brainchild of Major General Glen Shaffer, a director for intelligence serving both the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the secretary of defense. In the days before the Iraq war, Shaffer's staff had created humorous covers in an attempt to alleviate the stress of preparing for battle. Then, as the body counting began, Shaffer, a Christian, deemed the biblical passages more suitable. Several others in the Pentagon disagreed. At least one Muslim analyst in the building had been greatly offended; others privately worried that if these covers were leaked during a war conducted in an Islamic nation, the fallout—as one Pentagon staffer would later say—"would be as bad as Abu Ghraib."

But the Pentagon's top officials were apparently unconcerned about the effect such a disclosure might have on the conduct of the war or on Bush's public standing. When colleagues complained to Shaffer that including a religious message with an intelligence briefing seemed inappropriate, Shaffer politely informed them that the practice would continue, because "my seniors"—JCS chairman Richard Myers, Rumsfeld, and the commander in chief himself—appreciated the cover pages.

But one government official was disturbed enough by these biblically seasoned sheets to hold on to copies, which I obtained recently while debriefing the past eight years with those who lived them inside the West Wing and the Pentagon. Over the past several months, the battle to define the Bush years has begun taking shape: As President Obama has rolled back his predecessor's foreign and economic policies, Dick Cheney, Ari Fleischer, and former speechwriters Michael Gerson and Marc Thiessen have all taken to the airwaves or op-ed pages to cast the Bush years in a softer light. My conversations with more than a dozen Bush loyalists, including several former cabinet-level officials and senior military commanders, have revealed another element of this legacy-building moment: intense feelings of ill will toward Donald Rumsfeld. Though few of these individuals would speak for the record (knowing that their former boss, George W. Bush, would not approve of it), they believe that Rumsfeld's actions epitomized the very traits—arrogance, stubbornness, obliviousness, ineptitude—that critics say drove the Bush presidency off the rails..."

TEOTWAWKI wrote:

Bob wrote:

TEOTWAWKI wrote:John Adams – Our Constitution Was Made Only For A Moral And Religious People

God is an essence that we know nothing of. Until this awful blasphemy is got rid of, there never will be any liberal science in the world.

-- John Adams

As I understand the Christian religion, it was, and is, a revelation. But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legends, have been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that ever existed?

-- John Adams

When philosophic reason is clear and certain by intuition or necessary induction, no subsequent revelation supported by prophecies or miracles can supersede it.

-- John Adams

Indeed, Mr. Jefferson, what could be invented to debase the ancient Christianism which Greeks, Romans, Hebrews and Christian factions, above all the Catholics, have not fraudulently imposed upon the public? Miracles after miracles have rolled down in torrents.

-- John Adams

"As the government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen [Muslims] ... it is declared ... that no pretext arising from religious opinion shall ever product an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries....
    "The United States is not a Christian nation any more than it is a Jewish or a Mohammedan nation."

-- Treaty of Tripoli (1797), carried unanimously by the Senate and signed into law by John Adams (the original language is by Joel Barlow, US Consul)

And I suppose you think the former I posted is contradicted by what you have posted....religious and moral....is someone that believes in something greater than himself and realizes that he must regard his fellow man as valuable as himself.....those two principles are held by those that love the constitution

The Constitution was written no doubt on principles of universal brotherhood and equality, but it certainly did not single out Christianity or any other religion as its basis.

They sure were not referring to Allah when they wrote that God created all men equal.

PACEDOG#1 wrote:by Bob Today at 9:20 am
How about I guide you to a video,  pacedog.  This one was on the "pro-obama and pro-muslim state-run mainstream media".

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/coptic-christians-of-egypt/
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Bob. I am in agreement with you. No Christians are out summarily killing Muslims, it is vice versa

Nope...you're both full of it.