Religion and Politics, Really?

PACEDOG#1 wrote: We were between the Muslims and Christians

Bob wrote:"God knows it did not cross our minds to attack the Towers, but after the situation became unbearable—and we witnessed the injustice and tyranny of the American-Israeli alliance against our people in Palestine and Lebanon—I thought about it. And the events that affected me directly were that of 1982 and the events that followed—when America allowed the Israelis to invade Lebanon, helped by the U.S. Sixth Fleet. As I watched the destroyed towers in Lebanon, it occurred to me punish the unjust the same way: to destroy towers in America so it could taste some of what we are tasting and to stop killing our children and women."

-- Osama Bin Laden,  2004

PACEDOG#1 wrote:Othershoe,

We are fighting Muslims because they brought the battle to our shores, not vice versa and in my seven trips across the pond to partake in the GWOT, there have been plenty of atheists putting foot in Muslim arse as well. As for drones, PM me and I can tell you al you want about it. That's what I retained into during 2012-13.

othershoe1030 wrote:

PACEDOG#1 wrote:Othershoe,

We are fighting Muslims because they brought the battle to our shores, not vice versa and in my seven trips across the pond to partake in the GWOT, there have been plenty of atheists putting foot in Muslim arse as well. As for drones, PM me and I can tell you al you want about it. That's what I retained into during 2012-13.

The thread is drifting. This is not about why we are fighting the Muslims but rather whether it is a positive/good thing to intertwine religion and politics.

Ti wrote:Whenever I see a liberal saying remove all religion from schools, I know they only men remove any hint of Christianity from schools.

Because we can see where Christians have been blocked so many times by activist but are allowing islamist right after right in our schools.

example, cant pray at graduation, but we will install foot basins in the rest rooms at the tax payers expense.

Markle wrote:

othershoe1030 wrote:

PACEDOG#1 wrote:Othershoe,

We are fighting Muslims because they brought the battle to our shores, not vice versa and in my seven trips across the pond to partake in the GWOT, there have been plenty of atheists putting foot in Muslim arse as well. As for drones, PM me and I can tell you al you want about it. That's what I retained into during 2012-13.

The thread is drifting. This is not about why we are fighting the Muslims but rather whether it is a positive/good thing to intertwine religion and politics.

The result of intertwining religion and politics is the United States of America.  The greatest country the world has ever seen.

Ti wrote:Whenever I see a liberal saying remove all religion from schools, I know they only men remove any hint of Christianity from schools.

Because we can see where Christians have been blocked so many times by activist but are allowing islamist right after right in our schools.

example, cant pray at graduation, but we will install foot basins in the rest rooms at the tax payers expense.

Bob wrote:

Ti wrote:Whenever I see a liberal saying remove all religion from schools, I know they only men remove any hint of Christianity from schools.

Because we can see where Christians have been blocked so many times by activist but are allowing islamist right after right in our schools.

example, cant pray at graduation, but we will install foot basins in the rest rooms at the tax payers expense.

You've nailed me.  I hate christians and want them banned.  But I love muslims and want sharia law.

Bob wrote:The fact that something called "sharia law" even exists in this world should be enough to convince anyone that government and religion should always stay separated.

If it wasn't for that First Amendment we would be ruled by religion in this country.  I guarantee you that.

TEOTWAWKI wrote:John Adams – Our Constitution Was Made Only For A Moral And Religious People

TEOTWAWKI wrote:John Adams – Our Constitution Was Made Only For A Moral And Religious People

Bob wrote:

TEOTWAWKI wrote:John Adams – Our Constitution Was Made Only For A Moral And Religious People

God is an essence that we know nothing of. Until this awful blasphemy is got rid of, there never will be any liberal science in the world.

-- John Adams

As I understand the Christian religion, it was, and is, a revelation. But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legends, have been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that ever existed?

-- John Adams

When philosophic reason is clear and certain by intuition or necessary induction, no subsequent revelation supported by prophecies or miracles can supersede it.

-- John Adams

Indeed, Mr. Jefferson, what could be invented to debase the ancient Christianism which Greeks, Romans, Hebrews and Christian factions, above all the Catholics, have not fraudulently imposed upon the public? Miracles after miracles have rolled down in torrents.

-- John Adams

"As the government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen [Muslims] ... it is declared ... that no pretext arising from religious opinion shall ever product an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries....
    "The United States is not a Christian nation any more than it is a Jewish or a Mohammedan nation."

-- Treaty of Tripoli (1797), carried unanimously by the Senate and signed into law by John Adams (the original language is by Joel Barlow, US Consul)

othershoe1030 wrote:

TEOTWAWKI wrote:John Adams – Our Constitution Was Made Only For A Moral And Religious People

So do you think we are? How have we benefited from religion in the public square?

othershoe1030 wrote:And I suppose you think the former I posted is contradicted by what you have posted....religious and moral....is someone that believes in something greater than himself and realizes that he must regard his fellow man as valuable as himself.....those two principles are held by those that love the constitution

Let a persons religion enlighten him. He can act accordingly in the public sphere but let's not have the government actively enmesh with any particular religion. No good comes from that.

othershoe1030 wrote:

Ti wrote:Whenever I see a liberal saying remove all religion from schools, I know they only men remove any hint of Christianity from schools.

Because we can see where Christians have been blocked so many times by activist but are allowing islamist right after right in our schools.

example, cant pray at graduation, but we will install foot basins in the rest rooms at the tax payers expense.

I suppose you have a ready example of where such foot basins have been installed? My position on that is this: if the parents/students feel the need for foot basins at school then they need to send their kids to a private religious school where such things might be provided otherwise leave the public schools alone.

It may not seem as dangerous to us, being mainly Christian here, to have Christian prayers in school but one thing leads to another and consistency is needed in order for fairness to be perceived. No Christian prayers, no Hindu prayers, etc. No organized religion in public schools.

Dang it. (No, I should say: dammit like Joanie, that's so cute. it's like a kid stomping their foot while saying it, cracks me up every time).

The thread drifts yet again. The question is not prayer/religion in school but religion in POLITICS, how dangerous that is or wonderful depending on your point of view. I say nothing but grief comes of mixing religion and politics. If you disagree, show examples where this has worked out well for everyone over a substantial period of time. I don't think you can.

othershoe1030 wrote:And I suppose you think the former I posted is contradicted by what you have posted....religious and moral....is someone that believes in something greater than himself and realizes that he must regard his fellow man as valuable as himself.....those two principles are held by those that love the constitution

Let a persons religion enlighten him. He can act accordingly in the public sphere but let's not have the government actively enmesh with any particular religion. No good comes from that.

Bob wrote:

othershoe1030 wrote:And I suppose you think the former I posted is contradicted by what you have posted....religious and moral....is someone that believes in something greater than himself and realizes that he must regard his fellow man as valuable as himself.....those two principles are held by those that love the constitution

Let a persons religion enlighten him. He can act accordingly in the public sphere but let's not have the government actively enmesh with any particular religion. No good comes from that.

It will always fall on deaf ears,  othershoe.  Why?  Because muslims believe with all their heart and soul that their book is "the word of god".  So how can they ever accept that man's law should supercede god's law.
Just like christians who believe with all their heart and soul that their book is "the word of god".  They too have to make god's law be greater than man's law.

Where the problem comes in is that muslims don't believe their god should only run their lives.  And christians don't believe their god should only run their lives either.   They both are firmly convinced that each's god is the god for all of us and should rule over all of us,  not just them.

Bob wrote:

pacedog wrote:This says you are FOS Bob. None of the guys that did 9-11 were Iranian.
 

And none of them were Iraqis either.  

I was responding to your statement.  You said "we are fighting Muslims because they brought the battle to our shores, not vice versa".

You made the statement that 9/11 was the start of this.  But it wasn't.
Our government had been fucking over the muslim countries in the middle east for the entire 50 years prior to 9/11.  
Osama Bin Laden told us why he wanted to attack New York.  It was because our government had bombed Beirut and taken the side of a Christian regime against muslims in Lebanon many years before that.