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Is anybody surprised that the driver of the car in Virgina joined the military

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Joanimaroni
2seaoat
6 posters

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2seaoat



Once again the truth shines true. The driver is a spitting image of our next door neighbor's grandson who is now 20 and has worked a total of four weeks in his life having lost both jobs. He dropped out of high school and wanted to join the military, but was too lazy to get his ged, and is currently probably on meth as his blow up with me started with him ringing my doorbell twice at 1:30 am to go fishing as high as a kite.....why do these folks migrate to the military? The grandson hates Mexicans and blacks and was telling my wife that Trump had to win otherwise the government was going to take his gun away.

The problems in this country are easy to identify. The solutions are beyond our political appetite at this time. Hopefully things will quickly change because these creatures are crawling out from rocks and our President has an open door policy for the same.

Joanimaroni

Joanimaroni

Yes, I am surprised.

gatorfan



What "truth" is that? The "truth" according to 2SO who has never worn a uniform but reads wikipedia and considers himself an expert on the motives for everyone who join the military?

So what if the idiot joined the military several years ago - he was only in about 4 months - my guess is he was found unsuitable during training and was booted. Probably couldn't find a job, so what - at least people who join when they can't find work are trying - unlike welfare pigs who don't bother trying.

But you prefer welfare pigs.

2seaoat



But you prefer welfare pigs.

Not really as the military is the biggest welfare program in this country's history. However, when I give my real world observation of folks who joined the military when I was a kid, and my kids friends who joined, you consistently want to debate my real word observations which are many and consistent. We have losers who migrate to Nazi and KKK hate.

Let us agree that the largest welfare program in American history needs to be scaled back. When we talk about jobs, we should be talking about training, education, and the private sector, and stop the migration to the government teat.

You make it sound like not wearing a uniform is a stigma. I am very proud of my choices as I started working at 14 to educate myself after my father died, became an eagle scout, and never got one check from the government other than tax refunds, and my going onto early retirement social security which is a minimal check of funds I paid in and which I will never get back what I paid because I will be dead. I am proud of what I did for America creating jobs, and working to actually build things, not taking government money or joining vet groups to see how more welfare can be directed my way. To stop the insanity, it starts with exploding the myth that serving in the military over the last sixty years has been about defending America. It has not. It has been about providing profits for MIC and employment for the almost unemployable. My views are not popular. I will get attacked by anybody who did wear a uniform, and that is exactly why to tear down militarization of America, it must start with the fantasy that joining the military is not government welfare. It is for both the wealthiest corporations which make up MIC, and those who have no options.

2seaoat



I get in history we had real threats to America where citizens out of a sense of duty joined the military. However, when I talk to a young pilot in training in Pensacola who tells me he joined the military to kill terrorists, I simply hang my head. We have given a blank check to MIC. We have every loser wanting to kill some Muslims, as in their mind rag heads are all terrorists. You have to listen to those who served and the negative connotations given to indigenous people of the middle east. The new Imperialism has a weird twist with the crusades, but it has absolutely nothing to do with defending critical American interests.

As long as veterans do not speak up about the insanity of militarism, then they are the problem. There was a time veteran groups were more truthful as veterans saw the truth. When 99% of people serving in the military never served in combat, and they wear the mere fact of wearing a uniform like a honorary award of bravery, we will never address the problem, and the same vicious cycle will repeat.

zsomething



Unfortunately, a lot of white supremacists try to get into the military, because they want military training. They consider themselves a hidden army that dreams of one day rising up and killing off all the rest of us. And, unfortunately, the military doesn't always manage to screen the creeps out. They try to, but it doesn't always work.

It's not the military's fault, though. The military is a noble profession and made up mostly of good, well-intentioned, patriotic people. These white supremacists are parasites infiltrating and exploiting it, but they're far from representative of most members of the military. I know of a lot of military who've volunteered to go to these Nazi rallies and help guard against them. There are far more Democrats in the military than the right would like to believe.

2seaoat



It most certainly is about the militarization of America. The statute which is being debated to be removed from public land was an American terrorist who chose slavery and its continued existence in his home state of Virginia to supporting his nation, and in that process that terrorist who was no less guilty of treason than Benedict Arnold caused the death of hundreds of thousands of Americans. These same terrorist did not stop after their evil actions were defeated, rather former members of that same group of terrorist began to ride the night and terrorize black American citizens who tried to exercise their equality. That system of Jim Crow and white nationalist terrorism existed openly in the nation until the Democrats delivered the civil rights legislation which gave teeth to fight this terrorism, and in mass the dixiecrats in the democratic party turned the south into a Republican stronghold where military bases and the federal teat was more prominent than anywhere in America.

So the southern strategy of melding bigotry, and the large scale military welfare which included the overwhelming siting of military bases in the south where economic benefit became part of that symbiotic force of evil where other nations were looked at as gooks, or ragheads, and where people who find protecting humanity were seen as soft and anti Americans. No until we reduce the militarization of this society, we will see former military in full regalia and armed to the teeth marching down the streets of this nation supporting white supremacy and making America great again. Slavery and a terrorist general on the public square need to go to private museums and the hate has to stop toward our own people and the people of the world. Robert E Lee needs to find some private property in Virginia. Hate and military expansion has to be stymied. there is no neutral when fighting nazis.

2seaoat



http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/he-put-on-an-82nd-airborne-cap-and-gave-a-kkk-salute-in-charlottesville-vets-had-words/ar-AAqclXP?li=BBnb7Kz


No surprise here.

Floridatexan

Floridatexan

2seaoat wrote:http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/he-put-on-an-82nd-airborne-cap-and-gave-a-kkk-salute-in-charlottesville-vets-had-words/ar-AAqclXP?li=BBnb7Kz


No surprise here.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/war_stories/2006/01/gi_schmo.html

WAR STORIES
MILITARY ANALYSIS.JAN. 9 2006 5:06 PM
GI Schmo
18
0
How low can Army recruiters go?

By Fred Kaplan
Three months ago, I wrote that the war in Iraq was wrecking the U.S. Army, and since then the evidence has only mounted, steeply. Faced with repeated failures to meet its recruitment targets, the Army has had to lower its standards dramatically. First it relaxed restrictions against high-school drop-outs. Then it started letting in more applicants who score in the lowest third on the armed forces aptitude test—a group, known as Category IV recruits, who have been kept to exceedingly small numbers, as a matter of firm policy, for the past 20 years. (There is also a Category V—those who score in the lowest 10th percentile. They have always been ineligible for service in the armed forces and, presumably, always will be.)

The bad news is twofold. First, the number of Category IV recruits is starting to skyrocket. Second, a new study compellingly demonstrates that, in all realms of military activity, intelligence does matter. Smarter soldiers and units perform their tasks better; dumber ones do theirs worse.

Fred Kaplan
FRED KAPLAN
Fred Kaplan is the author of Dark Territory: The Secret History of Cyber War.

Until just last year, the Army had no trouble attracting recruits and therefore no need to dip into the dregs. As late as 2004, fully 92 percent of new Army recruits had graduated high school and just 0.6 percent scored Category IV on the military aptitude test.

Then came the spiraling casualties in Iraq, the diminishing popularity of the war itself, and the subsequent crisis in recruitment.

In response to the tightening trends, on Sept. 20, 2005, the Defense Department released DoD Instruction 1145.01, which allows 4 percent of each year's recruits to be Category IV applicants—up from the 2 percent limit that had been in place since the mid-1980s. Even so, in October, the Army had such a hard time filling its slots that the floodgates had to be opened; 12 percent of that month's active-duty recruits were Category IV. November was another disastrous month; Army officials won't even say how many Cat IV applicants they took in, except to acknowledge that the percentage was in "double digits."

(These officials insist that they will stay within the 4 percent limit for the entire fiscal year, which runs from October 2005 through September 2006. But given the extremely high percentage of Cat IVs recruited in the fiscal year's first two months, this pledge may be impossible to keep. For the math on this point, click here.)

Some may wonder: So what? Can't someone who scores low on an aptitude test, even very low, go on to become a fine, competent soldier, especially after going through boot camp and training? No question. Some college drop-outs also end up doing very well in business and other professions. But in general, in the military no less than in the civilian world, the norm turns out to be otherwise.

In a RAND Corp. report commissioned by the office of the secretary of defense and published in 2005, military analyst Jennifer Kavanagh * reviewed a spate of recent statistical studies on the various factors that determine military performance—experience, training, aptitude, and so forth—and concluded that aptitude is key. A force "made up of personnel with high AFQT [armed forces aptitude test] scores," Kavanagh writes, "contributes to a more effective and accurate team performance."

The evidence is overwhelming. Take tank gunners. You wouldn't think intelligence would have much effect on the ability to shoot straight, but apparently it does. Replacing a gunner who'd scored Category IV on the aptitude test (ranking in the 10-30 percentile) with one who'd scored Category IIIA (50-64 percentile) improved the chances of hitting targets by 34 percent. (For more on the meaning of the test scores, click here.)

In another study cited by the RAND report, 84 three-man teams from the Army's active-duty signal battalions were given the task of making a communications system operational. Teams consisting of Category IIIA personnel had a 67 percent chance of succeeding. Those consisting of Category IIIB (who'd ranked in the 31-49 percentile on the aptitude test) had a 47 percent chance. Those with Category IV personnel had only a 29 percent chance.

The same study of signal battalions took soldiers who had just taken advanced individual training courses and asked them to troubleshoot a faulty piece of communications gear. They passed if they were able to identify at least two technical problems. Smarts trumped training. Among those who had scored Category I on the aptitude test (in the 93-99 percentile), 97 percent passed. Among those who'd scored Category II (in the 65-92 percentile), 78 percent passed. Category IIIA: 60 percent passed. Category IIIB: 43 percent passed. Category IV: a mere 25 percent passed.

The pattern is clear: The higher the score on the aptitude test, the better the performance in the field. This is true for individual soldiers and for units. Moreover, the study showed that adding one high-scoring soldier to a three-man signals team boosted its chance of success by 8 percent (meaning that adding one low-scoring soldier boosts its chance of failure by a similar margin).

Smarter also turns out to be cheaper. One study examined how many Patriot missiles various Army air-defense units had to fire in order to destroy 10 targets. Units with Category I personnel had to fire 20 missiles. Those with Category II had to fire 21 missiles. Category IIIA: 22. Category IIIB: 23. Category IV: 24 missiles. In other words, to perform the same task, Category IV units chewed up 20 percent more hardware than Category I units. For this particular task, since each Patriot missile costs about $2 million, they also chewed up $8 million more of the Army's procurement budget.

Some perspective here: Each year the Army recruits 80,000 new troops—which amount to 16 percent of its 500,000 active-duty soldiers. Even if 12 percent of recruits were Category IV, not just for October but for the entire coming year, they would swell the ranks of Cat IV soldiers overall by just 1.9 percent (0.12 x 0.16 = .0192).

Then again, viewed from another angle, this would double the Army's least desirable soldiers. These are the soldiers that the Army has long shut out of its ranks; that it is now recruiting avidly, out of sheer desperation; and that—according to the military's own studies—seriously degrade the competence of every unit they end up joining. No, things haven't gone to hell in a handbasket, but they're headed in that direction. Every Army officer knows this. And that's why many of them want the United States to get out of Iraq.

Correction: Jan. 11, 2006: This story originally misspelled the name of the military analyst who authored the RAND Corp. report. It is Jennifer Kavanagh. Return to the corrected section.

***********

2seaoat



Great statistical analysis of recruitment. People argue that the Blue angels are a great recruitment tool, but the truth is anybody who is wowed by the Blue Angels and joins is of such a low aptitude that they become a negative factor. Millions of dollars on the Blue angels and these ridiculous Navy commercials with huge orange stick pins all over the globe do not change the facts. Our military has been a huge attraction to a growing number of people who cannot perform in the private sector, and without a citizen draft we are going to only get marginal people in the military. We were largely successful in WWII by incredible IQs and stellar private citizens joining the effort. Since then it has been an unmitigated failure and a costly failure as your study shows.

Without Citizen soldiers drafted into service, we are left with a low achieving mercenary army which requires the best and brightest to operate in the ever changing technical world. The citizen soldier also acts as a buffer to the military industrial complex, as they return to civilian life and achieve and have zero tolerance for blind obedience to war profiteers picking and choosing the next Imperial war. The symbiotic relationship with these losers and these far right KKK and Nazi connection is a real and present danger as they march around in their psuedo military garb and carry their multiple firearms.

We need to address the 400 lb gorilla in the room that the military has represented a white superiority of an imperialistic bad guy for over fifty years and it is time to stop the tail wagging the dog.

2seaoat



http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/dozen-us-sailors-to-be-punished-for-june-collision-navy/ar-AAqgj3S?li=BBnb7Kz

Just more proof on the rapidly descending standards in our military. How about this unique idea. Reductions. Streamline. New defensive strategies. Stop imperialistic invasions around the world and threats of war against third world countries. Reinstate the draft so we can begin to get people who can get a ship out of harbor. Rodney Dangerfield is being promoted to captain of this ship.....I hope they do not lose confidence.

2seaoat



I have been attacked for ten years arguing against the militarization of our society. I get attacked when I talk about kids who are troubled with no options choose the military and are used and abused by MIC, and when they get out there is this whole welfare thing which is perpetuated, as they criticize other poor people getting food stamps while General Dynamics gets trillions.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/a-neo-nazi%e2%80%99s-rage-fueled-journey-to-charlottesville/ar-AAqjdSD?li=BBnb7Kz

Deus X

Deus X

Floridatexan wrote:

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/war_stories/2006/01/gi_schmo.html

WAR STORIES
MILITARY ANALYSIS.JAN. 9 2006 5:06 PM
GI Schmo
18
0
How low can Army recruiters go?

This story is ten-years out of date. I wonder what the numbers are now.

And there is this, which explains certain posters on this forum--who shall remain nameless, but you know who I mean.

https://www.livescience.com/18132-intelligence-social-conservatism-racism.html

Guest


Guest

Would that be me Bill Moore?

Guest


Guest

2seaoat wrote:I have been attacked for ten years arguing against the militarization of our society.  I get attacked when I talk about kids who are troubled with no options choose the military and are used and abused by MIC, and when they get out there is this whole welfare thing which is perpetuated, as they criticize other poor people getting food stamps while General Dynamics gets trillions.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/a-neo-nazi%e2%80%99s-rage-fueled-journey-to-charlottesville/ar-AAqjdSD?li=BBnb7Kz

You get attacked because you denigrate military service, something of which you chickened out of and got deferments for while chastising other chicken hawks like yourself (Cheney, Trump, Ted Nugent etc). I truly believe that you lost multiple female companions to military guys and that's where your hate comes from.

Deus X

Deus X

ALTLEFTCRIMINALS wrote:  I truly believe that you lost multiple female companions to military guys and that's where your hate comes from.

I seriously doubt if he ever frequented prostitutes or wanted to date any of the pole-dancing sluts you imbecile military types adore.

Guest


Guest

Deus X wrote:
ALTLEFTCRIMINALS wrote:  I truly believe that you lost multiple female companions to military guys and that's where your hate comes from.

I seriously doubt if he ever frequented prostitutes or wanted to date any of the pole-dancing sluts you imbecile military types adore.

How would you know?

Floridatexan

Floridatexan

Deus X wrote:
Floridatexan wrote:

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/war_stories/2006/01/gi_schmo.html

WAR STORIES
MILITARY ANALYSIS.JAN. 9 2006 5:06 PM
GI Schmo
18
0
How low can Army recruiters go?

This story is ten-years out of date. I wonder what the numbers are now.

And there is this, which explains certain posters on this forum--who shall remain nameless, but you know who I mean.

https://www.livescience.com/18132-intelligence-social-conservatism-racism.html

I intentionally posted this because I remembered that, during the Iraq War, in spite of Blackwater mercenaries, actual troops were deployed multiple times. Standards were relaxed.

2seaoat



multiple female companions to military guys and that's where your hate comes from.


You give far too much credit. I will say though you are only fooling yourself about your direct involvement in the military which has caused so much pain around the world over the last fifty years. When I see Iraq children bleeding profusely from our collateral civilian damage, I see it differently than you do. I know that getting laid is important to most of the folks who were in their parent's and wanted to be wanabee tough guys by joining the military, but what I have been saying over the years is simply true......kids who are lost and really have no options are forced to be raw meat for MIC. You see that service as something to be honored. I once did. However, nothing will change honoring an offensive imperial mercenary army which kills innocents. It is an easy moral choice. Defend this country with intelligent deployments and a return to a civilian army. The mercenary armies of the Roman Empire consistently failed and the society rotted from within. When all citizens participate, they will lessen the unnecessary war.

2seaoat



President threatens military action against Venezeula

MIC wins again
The world's largest known oil reserves

1. Venezuela

> Proved oil reserves: 301 billion barrels
> Proved oil reserves, share of total: 17.7%
> 2015 oil production: 2,626,000 barrels
> 2015 GDP per capita: $16,784
> 2015 oil exports as % of GDP: 21.5%

2seaoat



http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/uss-john-s-mccain-collides-with-merchant-vessel/ar-AAqrrXu

2seaoat



What is the military risk to the United States to require are weapon systems to be shipped a couple of thousand miles right into the back yard of people we have no beef and making threatening confrontations? Another loss of life and obvious problems which are probably human error like the two weeks ago. We have dropped standards, we have almost 40 billion more defense spending being asked for, and we have a powder keg in Korea. It is time to stop this insanity.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/10-sailors-missing-after-us-navy-destroyer-collides-with-merchant-ship/ar-AAqrEfs?li=BBnb7Kz&fullscreen=true#image=1

2seaoat



There is nothing funny about the loss of life for the families of those sailors, but how many innocents must die before we realize we need to withdraw, consolidate and downsize our military, or there will be complete failure of the one true mission to defend America, and not provide more profits for MIC.

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