Z

RealLindaL wrote:With all due respect to everything others here have been through, and recognizing their sincere desire to be of assistance by sharing knowledge and experience in the medical milieu, I think there may be a need to think twice about coming across as implying that family members of the seriously ill have not made the best choices and/or are not doing everything they can to help their loved ones.

What I'm saying is that sometimes, well-intentioned but unsolicited advice -- especially when there's no clear or reasonably attainable way to follow that advice -- may only make things worse by causing hurt, which is of course the last thing any of us wants to do.

Just think about it

Sounds like you are scolding us, are you? 

Many of us have known Z-man for a longer time and on a more personal level than you. As fast as my advice,  I sincerely mean it and will stand by it regardless of anything you may say.

Joani, sorry, I was not addressing you at all.

RealLindaL wrote:Joani, sorry, I was not addressing you at all.  

Thank you....Z man is well loved and respected. We all have our own thoughts while some may not be helpful they are expressed with our love of Z man.

Joanimaroni wrote:

RealLindaL wrote:Joani, sorry, I was not addressing you at all.  

Thank you....Z man is well loved and respected. We all have our own thoughts while some may not be helpful they are expressed with our love of Z man.

Understood.  That's precisely what my phrase, "understanding their sincere desire to be of assistance" was meant to acknowledge.

Joanimaroni wrote:

RealLindaL wrote:Joani, sorry, I was not addressing you at all.  

Thank you....Z man is well loved and respected. We all have our own thoughts while some may not be helpful they are expressed with our love of Z man.

Shut up...what do you want to do? Perhaps sent him an email and rake him over the coals, again.

Joanimaroni wrote:Shut up...what do you want to do? Perhaps sent him an email and rake him over the coals, again.

???

Joanimaroni wrote:Shut up...what do you want to do? Perhaps sent him an email and rake him over the coals, again.

Well, would you care to explain this post or was it directed at someone else?

I think Linda is clearly addressing me. Sorry, to say that bad doctors exist and that there is a wide range of medical care. I have been outspoken in this regard in my vocation in addition to here. Sorry, Doctors have the ability to sprinkle fairy dust on their opinions, and it becomes unseemly to question them. Sorry, sometimes no member of a family can change circumstances which are beyond anybody's efforts. However, to suggest that diplomacy so as not to upset folks who are under a great deal of emotional strain must be weighed against the efficacy of raising options which, yes.....may not be available to a family, but an all star in baseball hits the ball one out of three times, and the idea that what the doctors have suggested is a hit and path to success ignores that 1% of doctors make 33% of the malpractice in America. Where do these 1% go? I am not afraid to suggest that too many go to small regional hospitals where they hurt people. I have known Z for 10 years, and he has sent me repeated PM, and where he cannot advocate for himself.....I have zero qualms to urge what I have urged.....zero. Z's daughter sings in rock bands and he did not raise a weak daughter, however I do appreciate Linda's concern for the family because I believe she is sincere.

2seaoat wrote:I think Linda is clearly addressing me.  Sorry, to say that bad doctors exist and that there is a wide range of medical care.  I have been outspoken in this regard in my vocation in addition to here.  Sorry, Doctors have the ability to sprinkle fairy dust on their opinions, and it becomes unseemly to question them.  Sorry, sometimes no member of a family can change circumstances which are beyond anybody's efforts.  However, to suggest that diplomacy so as not to upset folks who are under a great deal of emotional strain must be weighed against the efficacy of raising options which, yes.....may not be available to a family, but an all star in baseball hits the ball one out of three times, and the idea that what the doctors have suggested is a hit and path to success ignores that 1% of doctors make 33% of the malpractice in America.  Where do these 1% go?  I am not afraid to suggest that too many go to small regional hospitals where they hurt people.   I have known Z for 10 years, and he has sent me repeated PM, and where he cannot advocate for himself.....I have zero qualms to urge what I have urged.....zero.   Z's daughter sings in rock bands and he did not raise a weak daughter, however I do appreciate Linda's concern for the family because I believe she is sincere.

Well put seaoat. Like I said before, all any of us want to hear is that Z is on the road to recovery.

Telstar wrote:

Joanimaroni wrote:Shut up...what do you want to do? Perhaps sent him an email and rake him over the coals, again.

???

I'll add my ??? to this.  What in the world are you yammering about, Joani, and whom are you addressing, please???

RealLindaL wrote:

Telstar wrote:

Joanimaroni wrote:Shut up...what do you want to do? Perhaps sent him an email and rake him over the coals, again.

???

I'll add my ??? to this.  What in the world are you yammering about, Joani, and whom are you addressing, please???

Sorry Linda my post 131 was in reference to post 130.

I did have a typo....it should have read send.

Joanimaroni wrote:

RealLindaL wrote:

Telstar wrote:

Joanimaroni wrote:Shut up...what do you want to do? Perhaps sent him an email and rake him over the coals, again.

???

I'll add my ??? to this.  What in the world are you yammering about, Joani, and whom are you addressing, please???

Sorry Linda my post 131 was in reference to post 130.

I did have a typo....it should have read send.

Does that clear it up for you Linda? If it does can you please explain to me what she means about an email and raking somebody over the coals?

Telstar wrote:

Joanimaroni wrote:

RealLindaL wrote:

Telstar wrote:

Joanimaroni wrote:Shut up...what do you want to do? Perhaps sent him an email and rake him over the coals, again.

???

I'll add my ??? to this.  What in the world are you yammering about, Joani, and whom are you addressing, please???

Sorry Linda my post 131 was in reference to post 130.

I did have a typo....it should have read send.

Does that clear it up for you Linda? If it does can you please explain to me what she means about an email and raking somebody over the coals?

Tel, I have no earthly idea what she's talking about. Either she lives in an alternate universe, or maybe she's still obsessed with the idea that you're that bill person. If that's what she means, I've told her she's wrong and that I know facts about you that don't jibe at all with the bill persona, but she refuses to believe me. Let her rant on if it makes her happy, I guess - just ignore it, is my advice. She can't prove you're bill when you aren't.

RealLindaL wrote:

Telstar wrote:

Joanimaroni wrote:

RealLindaL wrote:

Telstar wrote:

Joanimaroni wrote:Shut up...what do you want to do? Perhaps sent him an email and rake him over the coals, again.

???

I'll add my ??? to this.  What in the world are you yammering about, Joani, and whom are you addressing, please???

Sorry Linda my post 131 was in reference to post 130.

I did have a typo....it should have read send.

Does that clear it up for you Linda? If it does can you please explain to me what she means about an email and raking somebody over the coals?

Tel, I have no earthly idea what she's talking about.  Either she lives in an alternate universe, or maybe she's still obsessed with the idea that you're that bill person.  If that's what she means, I've told her she's wrong and that I know facts about you that don't jibe at all with the bill persona, but she refuses to believe me.  Let her rant on if it makes her happy, I guess - just ignore it, is my advice.  She can't prove you're bill when you aren't.

Sad, so sad.

And now for the most important question: How is Z-man doing today, if we may know, please and thank you Z's daughter?

I've hesitated to post this, but I feel like you all have the right to know. And I told dad I would tell you.

He is tired and ready to be done with all of this. I just left him and said my goodbyes, as did my mom. He doesn't want us there when he goes. My aunt will be there with him. In fact, he made a "get going" motion with his finger, and told my mom and I to leave. When my dad sets his mind to something, he doesn't appreciate dilly dallying. We don't know how long it will take.

I just found out about his choice tonight. My mom met me at my house when I got off work. I haven't even processed this. And I will always feel like I never told him everything I wanted to say. I've only had maybe an hour total with him in the last few days.

Anyway, we all have appreciated your kind words, encouragement, and support through all of this. I'll let you know when dad is no longer with us. Please know that you are all very important to him, and you've been his dear friends.

Much love,
Brooke

I'm so sorry... and sad. Zman was a good friend.

Daughter Z,  I am so sorry.  This really breaks my heart. If I can do anything please let me know.

For Z

And I will always feel like I never told him everything I wanted to say. I've only had maybe an hour total with him in the last few days.

Do not worry a bit.....your dad's pride in you showed over the years and that pride does not need mere words. He loved your, but more importantly he respected you. None of us chose to be here. None of us will choose when it is time to leave. I think there is always a chance, even when the odds are overwhelming, but honestly there is nothing I hate worse than people meaning well telling me I may beat cancer, or your father losing control of his body while his mind is as sharp as ever is just going to magically heal. It is hard for us to lose so many good people over the years. We are a strange group who for whatever reason have chose to tolerate our differences and celebrate life. Your father will always hold a special place for me. His in depth understanding of energy crisis in this world was part of why I became involved in the PNJ and this forum.....people teaching me new things. We had fun. He was a man who met challenges and still had time to teach us. I am sorry for the pain your mother and you must bear, but please convey that this group of strangers had utter respect for your father.

Dad passed tonight at 10:39 PM. My aunt was by his side talking with him and playing his favorite Christian music. He was a man of faith, and he did not fear death. I am mourning, and this is numbing. But I am also sorry that all of you lost a friend. At the same time, you've gained one in me.

If any of you would like to know more about who my dad was as a person, you can PM me here. For my mom's safety, I don't want to put too many personal details here. But I am more than happy to tell you about my hero. We will not have any formal arrangements any time soon, but I will let you know privately when that time comes.

Thank you all.

Brooke, I had written most of this just before your sad notice of your father's death was posted, but am going to send it along anyway; perhaps you'll want to read it at a later date.

It was very kind of you take the time on this most difficult night to fill us in on your dad's decision, and to share some of your feelings.  I'm so sorry for your inestimable loss!   Please know that your mourning, though deeply painful, honors his memory, just as you honored his wishes in leaving his bedside when he asked.

Your sense that you never told him everything you wanted to -- though terribly tough to bear -- seems almost universal, or at the very least a not-uncommon thing.    My own father's been gone almost 26 years, for example, and I still sometimes relive the last times with him, wishing I'd told him (or asked him!) this or that.  I was 600 miles away when he died in a coma from complications of stroke, but had seen him only two months prior and knew he was ill; the "should haves" don't easily fade away.  I tell you my story only to say you're not alone and to remind you of something you already know - that the ways and means of death and all that entails are rarely within our control. We do the best we can, but what it is, it is.

I hope you can take comfort in knowing you were there for your father and that he exercised his own choice in full knowledge of your love and caring.  I don't know but can only imagine it may eventually be hard to recall that he sent you away, but it seems clear that he only wanted you and your mom to remember him in life, and that's for your own sake.  

You're obviously a very strong (and very special!) loving daughter.  Surely your father's love for and pride in you will remain with you always.  

Sending virtual hugs:     {{{Brooke}}}

With love and tears,
Linda

My condolences and best wishes for you and your family.