“conspiracy theorists” are actually more mentally sane (reasonable & sensible) than those who are considered conventionalists.

Bob wrote:Do you like catfish,  SheWrites?  We'd love to have you join us.
We have to go all the way to Milton to get it but it's worth it.  lol

I do. I was talking to Eric on the other forum about Pensacola history and he suggested I talk to you, Bob.

Bob wrote:This time let's do this differently than most truthers want to do.
Let's don't jump around between a dozen different points which
distracts us from dealing with any one of them.

Right now,  let's stick to your notion that skyscrapers don't collapse downwards.

Not without explosive demolition .. not falling straight down IS A BIG CONCERN OF DESIGNERS BOB...how can you be so illogical ?

WTC 7 ain't jumping it's just something you have NO ANSWER for...soooo sorry.

Here's a question for you.

Let's say you were an enormous giant. So big that you could actually
take your arms and grab the North Tower at it's base. And you could pick it up off the ground.

And while you're holding it, you start to tilt the whole thing over while you're still holding it.

What do you think will result? Do you think it will stay intact and go all the way over like a telephone pole or a tree?

I repeat,  no skyscraper in the history of the world has ever been built with enough rigidity to allow it to fall over and remain intact.  It's intentionally not built that way because,  I repeat again,  to do so would not leave enough open rentable space inside it to be practical.

Therefore,  when one of the Twin Towers collapses,  it's 500,000 tons collapses DOWNWARDS because it has nowhere near enough built-in rigidity to overcome that.

It's elementary,  teo.

Use your head, teo.

Why.....when he talks through his asz it is entertaining.

It's elementary, teo.


Yes it is Bob......yes it is.

Here's what I think you may be missing,  teo.

The interior of a skyscraper is mostly just air.  It's not mostly steel or concrete.
It's mostly air.  It's built that way because the guy who owns it wants it to be as much air (open space) as it can be because open space is what he's renting.  He can't rent the steel and concrete.  
He wants ONLY enough steel and concrete in it to support the open spaces.

When god builds a tree/utility pole,  God aint renting open space inside it.
And when he builds a human body,  he aint needing to rent open space in that either (although I will admit some people do seem to have mostly air in their heads but that's another issue).

When God builds a tree/utility pole,  or a human body,  he can build as much rigidity into as he wishes and he does just that.  

That's why a tree or your body can remain intact while "falling over".  And why a skyscraper cannot.

Factually the core of the towers was a steel core that could not have collapsed from any damage as occurred .. Air , LOL

Factually the core of the towers was a steel core that could not have collapsed from any damage as occurred .. Air , LOL

So how did it collapse?

Another illustration for you. The Titanic.

The Titanic is for all intents and purposes the same thing as a skyscraper EXCEPT it's lying horizontally, not vertically.

Remember what happened to the Titanic? When one end of it dipped down, and the other end of it swung upwards, did it remain intact like a tree?

No. It broke in half. Even though it had a LOT more rigidity built into than a skyscraper does, it still did not have enough rigidity to remain intact.

If the skyscraper was layed down on it's side like the Titanic. And it tried to do the same thing, that weak structure would immediately start to fall apart.

2seaoat wrote:Factually the core of the towers was a steel core that could not have collapsed from any damage as occurred .. Air , LOL

So how did it collapse?

Teo believes the only way it could collapse downward is if explosives were detonated at the junctions of the steel girders in it's skeleton serving to separate them from each other. Like in a controlled demolition. lol

Teo believes the only way it could collapse downward is if explosives were detonated at the junctions of the steel girders in it's skeleton serving to separate them from each other. Like in a controlled demolition. lol

That is a gut wrenching belly laugh at so many levels.  That is like dufus and Fred going squirrel hunting.   Dufus has the squirrel in his sight and Fred says hold it.......you may not get a kill shot.   Dufus says ......so .....I know I can hit him.   Nope says Fred......we need to set a trap......catch the squirrel......operate on the squirrel and put small cynaide packet in its body which when we shoot the squirrel will simultaneously explode killing the squirrel.......Fred you are a genius said Dufus.....pure brilliance.

The Twin Towers had a vertical "core" of support girders in the middle of them.
And they also had a vertical "perimeter" of steel girders which also supported the vertical load.
Between that was open space.

Horizontal girders (called floor trusses) were attached to the vertical core girders on one side,  and to the vertical perimeter girders on the opposite side.
The concrete floor slabs were poured and positioned to rest on top of the floor trusses.

And all these steel girders were sprayed with a layer of fireproofing material.

When the airliners struck and entered the buildings,  the fireproofing material was knocked off many of the floor trusses in the impact zone.  We know that because observation of the floor trusses in the rubble pile showed us exactly that.

When steel is heated,  it weakens.  That's why they fireproof it so it will retain it's strength in case of a building fire.

As the floor trusses in the impact zone heated up from the fires,  again with the fireproofing material now missing,  they began to weaken and over time they started to sag.  And I mean significantly sag.

This photo shows us exactly that...



Eventually,  the sagging puts enough stress on the riveted joint where it's attached to the vertical support girders holding it up,  that the floor truss breaks away from the vertical support.  And that's all she wrote.
When that happens the truss falls,  the additional stress causes other trusses to break away and fall,  and the massive floor slab it was holding up comes down with the falling floor trusses.
All that falls onto the next slab,  and the next and the next  and so forth and so on.  
And of course gravity then brings the whole shebang down to the ground into a pile of rubble.

There's no mystery about it and it's not complicated.

Building 7 is a different story. It was designed the old way with a steel skeleton throughout.
I've read many explanations of why it collapsed, the best one coming from NIST, but I'm still weak on understanding how it happened.

I'll now read some of those explanations again and try to get a better grasp of it. Why don't you do that too, seaoat, and maybe together we can get a handle on it.
You can start by googling "NIST WTC 7".

But before I start doing that,  consider this.

How sensible is it that "inside jobbers" would blow up something called Building 7?  Whoever even heard of a Building 7 before 9/11 and why would the world give a shit about it.  And please don't insult my intelligence by telling me they blew it up because it had all the Illuminatti documents and secrets inside it because I've already heard that cockamamy crap.  
It would have been a whole lot easier just to remove the illuminatti secrets rather than blow the fucking thing up.  All Dick Cheney (or count rothschild or the jews or whoever) had to do was enter the building before 9/11,  go up the elevator to wherever the secrets were stored,  bring them down the elevator, and go on their merry way.  
Blowing up the 47-story building instead is not what I would have done.  lol

Sal wrote:I hate reruns.

Depends on what is being rerun.  If it's "Swamp People" with the guy being eaten alive by the alligator,  or jersey teenagers getting drunk and brawling with each other,  or anything that has the name "kardashian" attached to it, I agree.
But I don't mind watching Plan 9 From Outer Space again.  Like this thread,  it's so bad that it actually becomes good.  lol

Are you googling the building 7 collapse yet,  seaoat?

Why don't you do that too, seaoat, and maybe together we can get a handle on it.

As Sal said......rerun. I would rather go to the dentist and have a root canal than read more garbage about what clearly was a terrorist attack which was a conspiracy. Now if you have some authors who actually can go to the sourcing, financing, and control of Bin Laden......I will read for hours. At this point T is such a scardy cat, it just becomes tedious to explain to him that there is no boogey man in the closet. His hatred toward jews has just clouded his otherwise analytical mind to where at times he borders on clinical paranoia. However, you really have mastered this subject and I always enjoy your insight. It is not as much fun as getting you piszed at me, but I constantly learn, and that is what I enjoy most about the PNJ and here.

Bob wrote:But before I start doing that,  consider this.

How sensible is it that "inside jobbers" would blow up something called Building 7?  Whoever even heard of a Building 7 before 9/11 and why would the world give a shit about it.  And please don't insult my intelligence by telling me they blew it up because it had all the Illuminatti documents and secrets inside it because I've already heard that cockamamy crap.  
It would have been a whole lot easier just to remove the illuminatti secrets rather than blow the fucking thing up.  All Dick Cheney (or count rothschild or the jews or whoever) had to do was enter the building before 9/11,  go up the elevator to wherever the secrets were stored,  bring them down the elevator, and go on their merry way.  
Blowing up the 47-story building instead is not what I would have done.  lol

You should take the same common sense approach, critical thinking skills, and trust in the scientific method you display on this subject and apply them to the Great Global Warming Hoax.

lol

Coincidentally, I went to the dentist this morning at 7:30. I'm getting a crown made after I had a root canal two weeks ago.

Rather than try to paraphrase what's on this page I'll just link it.
This explanation derives from the folks at Structure Magazine.
First here are their credentials. Obviously not as impressive as those of Alex Jones, but it will just have to do.

http://www.structuremag.org/?page_id=18

And here is what they had to say...

http://www.structuremag.org/?page_id=18

Since nobody is interested in reruns, I'll refrain from providing the quotes of dozens of firefighters on the scene that day who were predicting the WTC 7 collapse before it happened. Either they were psychic or they saw the building was so fucked it up that they knew it was coming down.

Sal wrote:

You should take the same common sense approach, critical thinking skills, and trust in the scientific method you display on this subject and apply them to the Great Global Warming Hoax.

lol

Maybe. But the possibility that motives other than purely impartial, unbiased, scientific ones (ideology, money, politics etc) could influence the climate change debate are not implausible. And it's that implausibility to the degree of utter absurdity which is surrounding the "controlled demolition" claims that makes it different.
That old saying applies. Keep an open mind (which I will with climate change); but not so open that brain matter falls out ("controlled demolition").

Building 7's collapse was no more inconsistent than the towers collapse, nor was there any more viable explanations for its collapse. Rerun on top of Rerun, but Einstein nailed it when he said insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Some of the paranoia and hate just borders on insanity.

I typed an answer bob at lunch but my cellphone refreshed the forum page and erased 10 minutes of finger typing. So I will reply when I get back to a real Keybd

TEOTWAWKI wrote:I typed an answer bob at lunch but my cellphone refreshed the forum page and erased 10 minutes of finger typing. So I will reply when I get back to a real Keybd

Happens to me too and when it does I want to take the little piece of shit out back and use it for a golf ball.
That never happened to us back when we were writing with paper and pencil.