I've seen hundreds of 9/11 documentaries and this is by far the most riveting of all.

By the way,  seaoat,  the reason that show is held in Chicago is because the vast majority of all that old stuff you see in the video was made in Chicago.
Chicago is the mecca for all coin-operated machines and just about every other product which was ever manufactured in America except for cars (as I'm sure you know).  
What you see in that video represents a part of our country's golden age. Unfortunately, the Broward County Sheriff was not educated about that. lol

I am going to a big poker Christmas party next week with a bunch of old golf buddies, and the guy hosting it has two or three working slots in the basement. This guy has about 500 employees and is into sugar commodities and sugar manufacturing. He is only about 52 and pulls down monster dollars and I can imagine that these folks made the trip quite worthwhile over the years.

Additionally, did you know the "first skyscraper" was also built in Chicago (and not in New York), seaoat.
It was called the Home Insurance Building. Built in 1884.

But it wasn't all that long afterwards (1910) when the tallest skyscraper in Florida at the time was built right here in P'cola.

TEOTWAWKI wrote:Boeing 767  at 700 feet altitude:

The power plant will max out at 330 mph.

The plane will begin to shake itself apart at over 220 mph.

At 700 feet altitude, the air is so thick that if you go too fast you max the rotation of the turbines, the engines can't suck in air, and the engine starts acting as a brake

I missed seeing this post before.  I have no earthly idea where you got those figures from but let me now respond to it.

"American Airlines Flight 11 was traveling at 470 miles per hour when it crashed into the North Tower at 8:46 a.m. United Airlines Flight 175 was traveling at 590 miles per hour when it crashed into the South Tower"

http://conspiracies.skepticproject.com/articles/911/twin-towers/page/2/

The page linked above ALSO talks about your claim that the towers were built to withstand multiple airliners of any size hitting them.

Scroll down that same linked page to you get to...

The Towers were Designed to take Direct Aircraft Hits

for a very complete explanation of what exactly they were designed to withstand.

another estimate of the speeds...

"The M.I.T. analysis, by Eduardo Kausel, a professor of civil and environmental engineering, found that the United plane was traveling an estimated 537 m.p.h., while the American plane, the first to hit, was traveling 429 m.p.h."

http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/3903-wtc-ua-175-speed-exceeded-767-design-limits.html

Floridatexan wrote:Why do all of you continue to dance around the story when it is completely obvious at this point that the entire events of 9/11/01 were a false flag attack on our country? It completely galls me that so few people will even acknowledge that the possibility of a conspiracy is a viable consideration...almost everything is a "conspiracy"...at least 2 people put their heads together to make it happen...that's all it takes to make a "conspiracy".

Unless of course it had happened during a democratic presidency.

PkrBum wrote:

Floridatexan wrote:Why do all of you continue to dance around the story when it is completely obvious at this point that the entire events of 9/11/01 were a false flag attack on our country?  It completely galls me that so few people will even acknowledge that the possibility of a conspiracy is a viable consideration...almost everything is a "conspiracy"...at least 2 people put their heads together to make it happen...that's all it takes to make a "conspiracy".

Unless of course it had happened during a democratic presidency.

Let me try this one more time. All this thread was ever intended to be about is what it was like for the human beings who were inside the towers before they fell.
If the towers fell because of the airliners striking them - OR - if the towers fell because they were "blown up in a controlled demolition"; the human beings inside the towers still experienced the same horror regardless of which.

I realize there are literally dozens of conspiracy theories and some claim "there were no airliners because they were just holograms" and the whole damn thing was just some illusion created by the same hollywood special effects artists who "faked the Moon landings".
BUT, most people who are not insane are convinced of the following facts...

1. An American Airlines Boeing 767 crashed into the north tower of the World Trade Center in New York City at 8:46 AM.

2. The north tower collapsed 102 minutes later at 10:28 AM.

3. A United Airlines Boeing 767 crashed into the south tower of the World Trade Center in New York City at 9:03 AM.

4. The south tower collapsed 56 minutes later at 9:59 AM.

Those four simple facts are all true regardless of what democrats do or what republicans do or what exactly caused the towers to collapse.

That's all we need to agree on for this thread. Because that's ALL we need to know to discuss what thousands of people inside the towers experienced between the times the airliners struck and the times the towers fell.

I just spent 15 minutes in an incredible conversation with one of the top three maintenance supervisors of the Willis Towers in Chicago. This was formerly known as the Sears tower. I had told him about Bob's video and this thread, and I asked him a series of questions. I will be meeting with him Monday morning and he has been kind enough and patient enough to answer some more of my questions.

The sears tower is 110 stories high. I asked him do they have staircases which go top to bottom. He said they only have one staircase that spans from top to bottom, but multiple staircases which go between a series of floors. I told him about Bob's video and how moving the victims of this tragedy description of their escape from the building. I asked him specifically.....are there volunteer safety people on each floor who are responsible for the evacuation of people on that floor in an emergency. He said that there was clearly that in place when Sears was the major tenant of the building, but since the change of ownership, he does not know how their volunteer system works. I asked him how often they have fire drills. He said each floor has a fire drill twice a year. They are all required to go down about five flights of stairs where they rally and review protocols. They do not have a complete building drill, and the people do not walk down fifty or sixty flights. He said that the Willis buildings stair case were wider than the twin towers and are spacious, but he said the same problems in the twin towers will happen in Willis. The firefighters do not have a designated exclusive staircase to access the floors. He said in drills the fire department uses the elevators to within five floors of a fire and they have pre planned staging areas where their firefighters make the final attack on the fire zone via the staircase. Each fire is unique, but he made it clear there are real problems in a full evacuation getting fire personnel up and people down in those stairways.

I am looking forward to continue this conversation, but what I clearly took from our first meeting is that people are concerned with emergencies, but bad things can happen which plans and design are woefully insufficient in light of a disaster like 911. These buildings are amazing, but certainly not without risk.

Interesting stuff, seaoat. If he tells you more pass it along.

I know I remember in the past that the Willis Tower has been found on terrorists' target plans. Mainly since it has been well known as the country's tallest skyscraper something like the last 30 or maybe even 40 years. In fact
it just lost the title when the Freedom Tower was topped out.

And that old floor plan which can't provide adequate evacuation is mainly because that old relic was built at the same time as the Twin Towers.
In 1972 they couldn't even yet conceive of a need for total building evacuation needing to be completed as fast as was needed on 9/11.
They were all still thinking in terms of the little B-25 hitting the Empire State.

One thing to remember though. The Twin Towers and the Willis are ENTIRELY different structures. The Willis is old school design with the steel eggcrate skeleton structure. And the Twin Towers is the (then thought to be radical) central core and load-bearing perimeter dealybob. It's very possible that an eggcrate structure (of the same size as the Twin Towers) could have withstood a hit by a 767 without collapsing.

What I found revealing about your video was the fact that 25k below the strike zone safely evacuated the buildings.   This would be a number which probably comes close to half the people in downtown Pensacola on a business day.   For all the people who say how brilliant this conspiracy was, why did they not try to target lower floors.  They could have tripled the death toll by simply coming in thirty stories lower.   I suppose surrounding buildings made the high hit necessary, but the lower the fire....the more the problems with evacuation.

2seaoat wrote:What I found revealing about your video was the fact that 25k below the strike zone safely evacuated the buildings.   This would be a number which probably comes close to half the people in downtown Pensacola on a business day.   For all the people who say how brilliant this conspiracy was, why did they not try to target lower floors.  They could have tripled the death toll by simply coming in thirty stories lower.   I suppose surrounding buildings made the high hit necessary, but the lower the fire....the more the problems with evacuation.

These were two of the very largest and tallest buildings in the world.  The width of each of the 110 floors was more than 2/3rds the length of a football field and  so was the depth.  Each floor covered an entire acre.
Nobody in the demolition field had ever even attempted to bring down anything with that size and height.  If it was done by actual demolition experts, and not Cheney himself,  the rigging would have been an enormous project like nothing ever done before.

So then we ask,  how did the "conspirators"  hide something of that scale so well that none of the building security has ever come forward and said "you know now that you mention it,  I did see something kinda suspicious that day".
Not one.  And remember,  the WTC had been blown to hell only 8 years earlier.  And I read a forum where former office workers at the
WTC all told us that, after the earlier bombing,  the security had been really tightened up.  Cameras and other survelliance literally everywhere. Which of course is exactly what you would expect.  So I guess to never be seen,  the "conspirators" must have discovered how to shift shape,  turn into cockroaches,  and crawl inside the cracks while at the same time they were wiring up the charges to do the demolition.  

And of course we're still talking only about building security personnel.  
What about the tens of thousands of office workers coming in and out of the buildings.  And the visitors.  Did they only hire blind, deaf and dumb people in those stock brokerages and that's why not one of them ever noticed anything suspcicious?

And then to add insult to injury,  there are probably more than a million of those so-called "truthers" who are fully convinced that the dude who owned the WTC actually went on national television and accidentally confessed to mass murder, treason,  and the biggest insurance fraud in the history of the world.
Reading those truther websites beats hell out of anything George Lucas or Gene Roddenberry ever came up with.  Way more fantastical.
Sometimes it even makes my namesake,  Edward D. Wood Jr,  look like he actually was a sensible storyteller when he dreamed up Plan 9 From Outer Space.  LOL

William Rodriguez...does that name ring any bells, Bob? Seriously, I can't believe you continue to reject any notion that the events of 9/11 were an inside job and a conspiracy...yes, I have no problem with that word...it's not hard to "reason" that there was no conspiracy when you completely reject any fact that contradicts your preconceived notions. What happened to Danny Jowenko?

Yes I know,   tex.  He died and that's supposed to be the proof that he was silenced by the inside jobbers which further proves the "controlled demolition" has to be true.  lol

If you polled every demolition pro in the business,  for every Jewenko there are ten others who will have the opposite take on it.
So if you're gonna be consistent with this line of thinking,  then you'll have to believe me when I tell you the 97% of climate science pros are wrong,  and the handful of climate change denier pros are right.
But since you wouldn't believe that with climate change,  why would you want to believe it with this other stuff?

All you or teo or alex jones or anybody else has to do is show me one little bitty thing and I'll open my mind to all this silliness.  Show me just one whistleblower who says he was an eyewitness to any of it and he's decided to come clean because he can no longer have mass murder and treason on his conscience.  And I mean even one of the grunts who carried the screwdriver for one of the guys who was wiring the towers.  Anybody who was there,  knew what was happening,  and can demonstrate to us he's not a crank.  That's all.
Until then,  it's all just an exercise in absurdity to me. And all it's doing is to obfuscate from the REAL conspiracy I outlined for you in another thread.

Luke 16:31

, neither will they be convinced if someone should rise from the dead.’”

Strike that, tex.  I don't even need it to be a person who was involved and an accomplice.
Go back to my earlier post.  Show me JUST ONE of the tens of thousands of people who either did security or housekeeping or any other jobs for the WTC, or were office workers in the WTC; who has come forward to only say "now that I think about,  I did see something that looked suspicious".  Just one with credibility.
But there are none.  Not even after 15 years.  Not one.

Jesus, with the Kennedy conspiracy theories at least they have hundreds of people in Dealy Plaza who say they saw or heard suspicious sounds or suspicious people behind grassy nolls and other spots all up and down the scene.
But you truthers aint even got one. Kinda sad.

The "inside job controlled demolition" theory is arguably the best example there is of the internet at it's very worst.
You cannot even use the internet to research anything about 9/11 anymore without having to wade through steaming pile after pile of trutherism.

TEOTWAWKI wrote:Luke 16:31

, neither will they be convinced if someone should rise from the dead.’”

That'll do too.  All you have to do is show me anybody who rose from the dead.
No I don't mean show me somebody who says he overheard somebody who said somebody else rose from the dead.  I mean bring me any dude who actually rose from the dead hisself and let me hear it from him.  I'm not any more interested in hearsay than any court of law is.

All you or teo or alex jones or anybody else has to do is show me one little bitty thing and I'll open my mind to all this silliness.

All of the tinfoil is an intentional smoke screen created so the real questions of conspiracy cannot be addressed. Who was behind the Saudi connection and who initiated and funded the folks who flew the planes. Stupid is talking about demolitions and no planes........while the bastards who planned and financed this have never been fully exposed. Yes, Bin Laden put it together, and it was a conspiracy, but who funded this and why. Five trillion dollars later, somebody who owned MIC corporations made a tidy profit if money was the sole motivator, but we don't know......because stupid has filled the air with smoke and the real conspiracy has never been investigated, but conveniently terminated.

Much of the trutherism you eschew is government generated disinformation......oh well who gives a damn what anyone believes...it's all going to hell in a hand-basket.

I can only speculate, seaoat,  since the information we all need and deserve to see has been covered up for 12 years and is still being covered up.  

I think it's really pretty simple.  We know the Saudi kings and princes and sultans were and are scared shitless the jihaders will bring them down.  They know the jihaders badly want them deposed.  
So,  they got in bed with the jihaders and financed their terrorism  as a form of "protection" money.  Aided them to jihad on us so they wouldn't jihad on them.  It was like giving a bunch of firecrackers to some juvenile delinquents with the understanding they'll throw the firecrackers at somebody on the other side of the fence,.

The Bush involvement in the coverup is pretty obvious too.  The Bush dynasty had been business partners with the kings and sultans and princes for a long time.  It was in their interests to cover up for them.  

But it's the possible implications of this that really make see red.
And especially one of them.  That it actually makes it plausible that the war in iraq was waged only to throw suspicion off their Saudi buddies. 

As far as Obama not wanting to investigate that's simple too.
It doesn't matter if it's a democrat or a republican or an independent president when it comes to this.  Any of them know that if the American people were to actually learn it's the same people they give their money to when they buy gasoline who financed the destruction of lower Manhattan and slaughtered 2600 of their fellow countrymen,  and then the people learn their government lied to them and started a war that killed another 4000 of their fellow countrymen just to cover it all up;  there will be a backlash in the streets that makes ferguson look like a sunday school picnic and could bring the whole house of cards government down to it's knees.  And they're more scared of that happening than anything else because they know they will likely go down with it too.

Much of the trutherism you eschew is government generated disinformation......oh well who gives a damn what anyone believes...it's all going to hell in a hand-basket.


Quite the contrary......America took a big step today to get things morally right. It is a hundred battles which must be fought each day, and if good people only stay engaged and demand nothing more from their government than fairness and justice, this country will NEVER go to hell in a hand basket. Evil is definable.

Bob wrote:Strike that, tex.  I don't even need it to be a person who was involved and an accomplice.
Go back to my earlier post.  Show me JUST ONE of the tens of thousands of people who either did security or housekeeping or any other jobs for the WTC, or were office workers in the WTC;  who has come forward to only say "now that I think about,  I did see something that looked suspicious".  Just one with credibility.
But there are none.  Not even after 15 years.  Not one.

I just did. His name is (or was) William Rodriguez. He was a janitor at the WTC and the only one with a key to the North Tower. He rescued at least 15 people and has been speaking around the country since that day. Another janitor named Kenneth Johannemann is believed to have committed suicide (gunshot to head) in 2008. A witness who was working on the 8th floor of the WTC, Barry Jennings, is also dead. All of these men reported explosions in the basement level PRIOR TO any plane impacting either building.



There are others:
https://usahitman.com/wbdct911/

I don't believe Alex Jones...just pointed out to Teo recently that he's probably a double agent with some very questionable associations.

--------------

Here's a 9/11 videographer:



Here's another one: