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Pensacola Discussion Forum » General Discussion » I've seen hundreds of 9/11 documentaries and this is by far the most riveting of all.

I've seen hundreds of 9/11 documentaries and this is by far the most riveting of all.

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2seaoat
Hospital Bob
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2seaoat



Other occupants were told to stay put, since stairwells couldn't handle a rapid full-building exodus."

That like the lack of sprinklers in the MGM fire were code issues which should have been addressed and drills should have been able to measure evacuation rates and the best method to get people out of those buildings. In Chicago, locked stairwell doors have killed many people, and I do not understand why this remains when clearly people were compromising the doors by putting objects in the doors to allow them to go back in. All I am saying is that the planes had very little to do with the cluster F of evacuation. I am sure buildings have multiple protocols and training now, but lighting and not getting people orderly out of the building asap bothered me. I liked the one trader toward the end trying to help his coworker carry an injured man down when they ran into firefighters and the firefighter said to him.....who are You? Get the F out of this building.....it saved his life....not so much for the firefighter.

Floridatexan

Floridatexan

Why do all of you continue to dance around the story when it is completely obvious at this point that the entire events of 9/11/01 were a false flag attack on our country? It completely galls me that so few people will even acknowledge that the possibility of a conspiracy is a viable consideration...almost everything is a "conspiracy"...at least 2 people put their heads together to make it happen...that's all it takes to make a "conspiracy".

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

The best estimate is 15,000 to 17,000 people were inside the towers when it happened, seaoat.  And about 80% of those were on the floors BELOW the impact zones.  
Let's say you're in charge of making the decisions (you're probably a fire department official).  And you have no expectation that the buildings would collapse.  You believe all those below the impact zone are in no immediate danger.
So you have to make the decision.  Either you announce on the PA system for those tens of thousands of people to evacuate which will put them all in the very limited number of stairwells at once.  OR you tell them to stay in place until an orderly evacuation can be executed.
And since you're probably a FDNY or Port Authority official who is making that decision,  you're fully aware of the chaos which resulted when all those people tried to exit the building at once in 1993.
So what choice do you make?

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

florida texan,

The conspiracy stuff has absolutely NO relevance to any of this.
It doesn't matter what brought the buildings down, be it airliners or Dick Cheney's bombs.
This is about what happened to the building occupants between the time the airliners struck and the time the buildings went down.
Even if the buildings WERE brought down by Cheney or the illuminatti or "the jews" or aliens from the planet Neptune, it makes no difference. What happened to the people in the buildings before the buildings went down would be exactly the same.

That's why I'm not addressing the conspiracy stuff this time. It's not relevant.

TEOTWAWKI

TEOTWAWKI

http://www.neonnettle.com/news/211-ex-cia-pilot-gives-sworn-testimony-that-no-planes-hit-the-twin-towers

Ex-CIA Pilot Gives Sworn Testimony That No Planes Hit The Twin Towers

John Lear, the son of Learjet inventor, shocking claims



. ‘No Boeing 767 could attain a speed of 540 mph at 1000 feet above sea level ‘parasite drag doubles with velocity’ and ‘parasite power’ cubes with velocity.

TEOTWAWKI

TEOTWAWKI

Bob wrote:florida texan,

The conspiracy stuff has absolutely NO relevance to any of this.
It doesn't matter what brought the buildings down,  be it airliners or Dick Cheney's bombs.
This is about what happened to the building occupants between the time the airliners struck and the time the buildings went down.  
Even if the buildings WERE brought down by Cheney or the illuminatti or "the jews" or aliens from the planet Neptune,  it makes no difference.  What happened to the people in the buildings before the buildings went down would be exactly the same.

That's why I'm not addressing the conspiracy stuff this time.  It's not relevant.
Oh well speak to boards maybe he will ban me....

2seaoat



So what choice do you make?


You first conduct studies and actual evacuations of floors. There should have been studies made by the architects when this building was approved and code inspections allowed construction. The first thing we were taught in scouting was a rally point. each floor should have a rally point and not at the base of the building. They should have been blocks away from the towers, and every floor like a cruise ship should have had a run through. I understand that some people would have medical exemptions, but that information is also critical to any evacuation plan.

Second, you then produce models of the most efficient methods of evacuation after factoring in real training evacuations.

Third, you develop evacuation protocols based on fire or fires locations. I have a friend who has developed software for fire departments to computerize building fire assets, inspection reports, and design criteria which is shared by the cities, fire departments, building owners, and service providers who put in alarms, sprinklers, and other fire assets. The cost of these systems are born by the service providers who pass it to the building owners, and the cities get these tools for free. These systems are sweeping the country because that data allows for real time simulations based on data parameters. I am arguing strongly that the planes were not the problems. If 13 terrorist instead of boarding the plane, spread through the lower part of the building and strategically compromised fire assets and alarms, used accelerants they could have killed many thousands more people if they used demolitions on elevators and staircases on the lower floors because the protocols they had in place could not even handle most major fires.

Tex there was a conspiracy. They flew the planes into the building.

TEOTWAWKI

TEOTWAWKI

I've seen hundreds of 9/11 documentaries and this is by far the most riveting of all. - Page 2 Spellcuom2

TEOTWAWKI

TEOTWAWKI

I've seen hundreds of 9/11 documentaries and this is by far the most riveting of all. - Page 2 Hezarkhanicumv3
I've seen hundreds of 9/11 documentaries and this is by far the most riveting of all. - Page 2 Nasa1yg4

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

All I'm trying to do is offer an explanation for why that order was given,  seaoat.  

But if it's any consolation to you,  I'll say this.  If I was inside one of those buildings when it happened,  and then turned on a television or radio to find out exactly what was happening (which I'm sure many of them did),  and I saw bodies falling outside my window,  I wouldn't give a shit what any fireman or cop or anybody else was telling me to do,  I would be RUNNING down those stairs so fast that I would probably suffer a heart attack in the stairwell on the way down.
And not only that,  after seeing what happened to the Twin Towers,  I agree with Chris Rock.  I wouldn't go inside that "Freedom Tower" if you paid me to.  Hell I went to the top of the Empire State Building last year and the whole time I was inside it I was thinking "I need to get the hell out of here before those muslims (or Dick Cheney or "the jews" or whoever) do it again".
This time I actually am a "scaredy cat" to use seaoat's pet word. lol

2seaoat



I would be RUNNING down those stairs so fast that I would probably suffer a heart attack in the stairwell on the way down.

We agree. However, that is why drills are so important to get the most people out quickly.

TEOTWAWKI

TEOTWAWKI

Like most sheep if told there is no alarm they will continue grazing...just like you two.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

By the way, if you're in Manhattan and you feel the urge to go to the observation deck at the top of the Empire State Building, you should know something.
You will have to stand in line behind hundreds of Japanese tourists just to get to the elevator. And once you get to the observation deck, the Japanese tourists will be 5 or 6 deep in front of you when you're trying to look out and see anything.
It was my first time up there and for a skyscraper buff like me it was worth it even if the Japanese were 20 deep in front of me. But it probably won't be for you normal people. lol

TEOTWAWKI

TEOTWAWKI

They did that to me in the Tokyo tower..

2seaoat



My wife took the Grand kids to the Sears or the Hancock center where they have windows that allow you to go beyond the perimeter of the building and look down at your feet and peer through glass to the street level. Both grand kids loved it. My wife.....not so much. Here is a tip if you want to get to see a great view from a sky scrapper. Make lunch reservations for the 95th floor signature room. You can get a great seat right at the glass and overlook the lake. The neat thing about this is that the observation deck has an $18 dollar admission for each adult, and believe it or not you can get a great quality top restaurant lunch for about $20 bucks and sit there for an hour enjoying the views, great fresh bread, and quality entrees. We plan on taking the grandkids in Feb.......it is only four to five blocks from Northwestern Hospital, and we take them after my shots, eat lunch, and then take a taxi ride. Now the part you will like the best.....park in Northwestern hospital parking garage, take the sky bridge over to the information desk, and get your parking validated which instead of $44 for seven hours you pay $11 which will pay for your cabs to go to the museums.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

It costs 25 bucks just to get on the elevator and ride to the top of the ESB.  And even at that price 110 million people have paid to go up.

"The lines to enter the observation decks, according to Concierge.com, are "as legendary as the building itself:"

"the Empire State Building makes more money from tickets sales for its observation decks than it does from renting office space"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empire_State_Building#Observation_decks

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

The tallest skyscraper ever built is now under construction in Saudi Arabia.  It will be almost three times taller than the Empire State Building.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_Tower

Luckily for it's occupants,  it's located in the same country the 9/11 hijackers came from so it probably won't be knocked down.

2seaoat



http://www.360chicago.com/hours-and-pricing/

http://www.signatureroom.com/

I strongly suggest catching lunch right at 11 am monday through thursday....you have the place to yourself, and you still have time to hit at least one museum. I cannot urge enough people to go to the Chicago Art Museum which is about an $8 buck taxi ride from the Hanncock. The field Museum about $14 taxi and Science and industry a bit more. The key is park your car in a safe inexpensive garage and enjoy the day. If it is the summer enjoy a walk through grant park, the aquarium or planetarium.......Symphony Hall and catch a 1pm showing........you are only limited by your imagination.

TEOTWAWKI

TEOTWAWKI

Bob wrote:The tallest skyscraper in the world is now under construction in Saudi Arabia.  It will be almost three times taller than the Empire State Building.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_Tower

Luckily for it's occupants,  it's located in the same country the 9/11 hijackers came from so it probably won't be knocked down.
You should fly on over there and go up to it's observation floor. I am sure you would fit right in....while you are there ask them how they would like it if you flew a plane into their big building...even if that building needed millions of dollars worth of restoration and modernizing......Was full of illegal deteriorating asbestos. Would they think you were doing them a favor ?..also tell them not to sell it to a Zionist Jew under any circumstances....

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

I went to the top of both the Sears Tower (now "Willis") and the John Hancock on my first trip to Chicago in 1976.
The Sears/Willis Tower of course didn't yet have that glass ledge added to it.
But with my acrophobia, seaoat, I could never stand on something like that anyway.

2seaoat



Next time you visit St. Charles and the flea market, get a cheaper hotel in the fox valley and take an easy rush hour avoidance commute to Northwestern, and enjoy lunch during the week, and then hit the market on the weekend, but you are retired now so I doubt if you make that trek anymore.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

TEOTWAWKI wrote:

You should fly on over there and go up to it's observation floor. I am sure you would fit right in....while you are there ask them how they would like it if you flew a plane into their big building...even if that building needed millions of dollars worth of restoration and modernizing......Was full of illegal deteriorating asbestos. Would they think you were doing them a favor ?..also tell them not to sell it to a Zionist Jew under any circumstances....

I know,  teo.  You believe the Twin Towers were brought down with 2600 people still inside because their Jewish owner didn't want to have to pay for asbestos removal.  Because that's what Jews do.  Got it.  lol

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

2seaoat wrote:Next time you visit St. Charles and the flea market

Where I went to in St. Charles twice a year for 25 years is not exactly a "flea market". It's the largest antique show in the world devoted to antique coin-operated machines...



2seaoat



I know, teo. You believe the Twin Towers were brought down with 2600 people still inside because their Jewish owner didn't want to have to pay for asbestos removal. Because that's what Jews do. Got it. lol



and Obama is the Messiah........


TEOTWAWKI

TEOTWAWKI

Bob wrote:
TEOTWAWKI wrote:

You should fly on over there and go up to it's observation floor. I am sure you would fit right in....while you are there ask them how they would like it if you flew a plane into their big building...even if that building needed millions of dollars worth of restoration and modernizing......Was full of illegal deteriorating asbestos. Would they think you were doing them a favor ?..also tell them not to sell it to a Zionist Jew under any circumstances....

I know,  teo.  You believe the Twin Towers were brought down with 2600 people still inside because their Jewish owner didn't want to have to pay for asbestos removal.  Because that's what Jews do.  Got it.  lol

Zionist Jews...it's like Democrat American's or Communist Americans....just a nasty political variation of Jew...

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