Florida lawmakers vote to expand ‘stand your ground’ law

Men that carry guns on them are resisting the very police state you are right to find evil and oppressive. In our own way we take responsibility for our own defense instead of calling for massive tracking, and surveillance, more and more police presence and more invasive laws. What you call fear is just a logical solution to a police state which was given to us by smarter men than walk this land today.

In 1785 Thomas Jefferson wrote to his fifteen-year-old nephew, Peter Carr, regarding what he considered the best form of exercise: "...I advise the gun. While this gives a moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprize, and independance to the mind. Games played with the ball and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be the constant companion of your walks."[1]

2seaoat wrote:That gibberish emasculated no one it just solidified that you are delusional and incoherent .


If I am delusional and incoherent, I would be met with a valid argument to explain the fear.   What makes a grown man so fearful to walk in public that he needs to carry a hidden gun?  Just explain the fear.  Explain the fear that keeps increasing the criminal justice budget, and keeps the most people in prison than any other nation in the world.   Explain the fear which has people accepting police brutality because they are so fricking afraid without a police state.........Any rational person knows that nobody carries a hidden weapon as a general member of the public who is not afraid of something.  Explain the fear.

What is wrong w/ being afraid of something,Seaoat? I fear crazy people and that's a rational fear. I fear big men carjacking me or robbing me and throwing me off a bridge. We have a lot of fears to fear in the world and I'll be damned if I'm going to be taken down a road and a have bullet put in my head if I can help it. Gimme that gun!

Dreams,

You are the first person who had the COURAGE to admit they are afraid. The men on this forum are afraid to say they are fearful and that is why they carry a gun. A phobia is an irrational fear. If you have had life experiences which makes you afraid, it is not a phobia. I have been jumped by three men breaking into cars in college and we fought.....they pretty much bloodied me and I was able to bloody one....but they got the best of me as they attacked me from behind......yet I walk the streets without a gun because I am not afraid, and that one incident and another have not made me afraid to walk in public without a gun. All I am trying to establish that it has nothing to do with the constitution.....that is a smokescreen......it has everything to do with fear......we have become wussies and fearful and withdrawn. I just believe that is no way to go through life.

What is wrong w/ being afraid of something,Seaoat? I fear crazy people and that's a rational fear. I fear big men carjacking me or robbing me and throwing me off a bridge. We have a lot of fears to fear in the world and I'll be damned if I'm going to be taken down a road and a have bullet put in my head if I can help it. Gimme that gun!

Okay Dreams did a better job explaining fear than I did.  

2seaoat wrote:Dreams,

You are the first person who had the COURAGE to admit they are afraid.  The men on this forum are afraid to say they are fearful and that is why they carry a gun.  A phobia is an irrational fear.  If you have had life experiences which makes you afraid, it is not a phobia.  I have been jumped by three men breaking into cars in college and we fought.....they pretty much bloodied me and I was able to bloody one....but they got the best of me as they attacked me from behind......yet I walk the streets without a gun because I am not afraid, and that one incident and another have not made me afraid to walk in public without a gun.  All I am trying to establish that it has nothing to do with the constitution.....that is a smokescreen......it has everything to do with fear......we have become wussies and fearful and withdrawn.   I just believe that is no way to go through life.

Man what are you saying that only women should carry guns? Make some sense you blabbering dodo bird.

2seaoat wrote:Dreams,

You are the first person who had the COURAGE to admit they are afraid.  The men on this forum are afraid to say they are fearful and that is why they carry a gun.  A phobia is an irrational fear.  If you have had life experiences which makes you afraid, it is not a phobia.  I have been jumped by three men breaking into cars in college and we fought.....they pretty much bloodied me and I was able to bloody one....but they got the best of me as they attacked me from behind......yet I walk the streets without a gun because I am not afraid, and that one incident and another have not made me afraid to walk in public without a gun.  All I am trying to establish that it has nothing to do with the constitution.....that is a smokescreen......it has everything to do with fear......we have become wussies and fearful and withdrawn.   I just believe that is no way to go through life.

Fear can be a good thing, Seaoat. It makes us vigilant and aware and cautious. I don't need life experiences myself to have fear. I can read the newspapers or watch TV and see what happens to other people. I don't have a false bravado. I know what people can do and will and I'm not going to be foolish enough to think it can't happen to me. if life were different, I think you could say that but not in this world now.

Okay Dreams did a better job explaining fear than I did. alien


So you are admitting you are afraid T? Why was that so hard? All the smoke screens of constitutional mumbo jumbo......people are scared and think a hidden gun will protect them from the boogey man who will do these bad things to them. I simply think that the probabilities of the same are so remote and that even with a gun a person could get a jump on me, and that I would rather face dangers on the street without the responsibility of a gun.

Being awakened at 3am with broken glass is simply a matter of getting my shotgun, but I know that somebody good would never let me wake up.......so am I afraid in my house or on the streets. Honestly.......not even remotely. I simply do not get it.

I simply don't get that you don't get this is a dangerous world? Do you think a crack addict will beat my ass if I have a gun? Do you think a man who follows me home is going to get me if I have a gun? Do you think I am going to get kidnapped if I pull out a gun? Without that gun...I have no chance.

No seaoat I have no irrational fears. Yes I respect fire. RESPECT is what I have respect that a thug with a knife can cut my throat just for my watch. Or shoot me in the head for my wallet. I respect that scenario could happen so I carry a balance to that situation.. a revolver.

God made man short and tall but Mr. colt equalized them all.

T and Dreams,

With the balance of your lives being somewhere around 20 years, exactly what do you think the probability of any of these things happening where a gun would protect you from your generic fear? 25%....maybe four or five times before you die.........5% maybe once in the 20 years.........I would suggest that both of you will finish your lives without a boogeyman, and there is less than 1% chance of the same. I would also suggest that in about fifty percent of the boogeymen situations......your gun would never get pulled or protect you because criminals are smart........so that means about a half percent chance in the next twenty years your fear will be correctly addressed by a hidden gun. I probably have a better chance of getting struck by lightening. I just do not get the fear.......I am afraid when I get in the car because I know there are real dangers. I am not afraid walking the streets of America.

2seaoat wrote:T and Dreams,

With the balance of your lives being somewhere around 20 years, exactly what do you think the probability of any of these things happening where a gun would protect you from your generic fear?   25%....maybe four or five times before you die.........5% maybe once in the 20 years.........I would suggest that both of you will finish your lives without a boogeyman, and there is less than 1% chance of the same.   I would also suggest that in about fifty percent of the boogeymen situations......your gun would never get pulled or protect you because criminals are smart........so that means about a half percent chance in the next twenty years your fear will be correctly addressed by a hidden gun.   I probably have a better chance of getting struck by lightening.   I just do not get the fear.......I am afraid when I get in the car because I know there are real dangers.  I am not afraid walking the streets of America.

Thank you for your opinion as awful and loosely thought out as it is. In fact older people have a much better chance of being mugged and are far less prepared physically to deal with it. A gun is about all that would protect them from a younger attacker so thanks for your dimwitted analysis and advice but, REJECTED !


In addition to pushes and shoves, older people make great crime targets.

A big, bad purse snatcher in Florida – a burly dude around age 30 – recently grabbed the purse of an 87-year-old woman so violently that she splattered to the sidewalk.

Her fall broke her arm and injured her face while big, bad, burly purse snatcher got away.

Being a crime target is just one of the woes suffered by older folks.

http://ryngargulinski.com/2010/12/03/old-people-get-no-respect-crime-victims-targets-treated-rude-and-with-hatred-ever-wonder-why/

2seaoat wrote:T and Dreams,

With the balance of your lives being somewhere around 20 years, exactly what do you think the probability of any of these things happening where a gun would protect you from your generic fear?   25%....maybe four or five times before you die.........5% maybe once in the 20 years.........I would suggest that both of you will finish your lives without a boogeyman, and there is less than 1% chance of the same.   I would also suggest that in about fifty percent of the boogeymen situations......your gun would never get pulled or protect you because criminals are smart........so that means about a half percent chance in the next twenty years your fear will be correctly addressed by a hidden gun.   I probably have a better chance of getting struck by lightening.   I just do not get the fear.......I am afraid when I get in the car because I know there are real dangers.  I am not afraid walking the streets of America.

Well, that's you Seaoat. I feel better knowing if something did happen I wouldn't be helpless.

Let me explain in personal terms my take on this fear issue. I have been a firefighter since I was 16 years old. At the age of 22 I began to do it as a profession. The chance that I would be killed while performing my job has always been real and about 3 times so far chance almost popped me. The thing is is that I dont fear death in the least. I know that sounds weird but its true. So, on to the gun issue. Many times in the past before I obtained my ccwl my wife and I would be called on to search for an autistic child or elderly person with dementia in the less desireable parts of town where the crimes that we read about in the PNJ are committed. I always wondered if at the age of 48 I could defend myself and wife against 2 or 3 athletic younger men who in all probability had guns. The answer is easy to arrive at. I now carry a .45 sir, not because I am a coward but because I am no dummy. I know my limitations and I will always have my wifes back. Now, onto this cowardly anonymous posting of derogatory statements. When I am retired in about 2 years I plan on using my real name here, not because I continuously belittle others intelligence and call names but because I want all to know that if I post it on here then I would say it to your face. In my opinion calling others names on here while hiding ones identity is the most cowardly thing one could do. You are a smart guy seaoat and I'm surprised that you don't see the hypocrisy in your statements about others while hiding behind the name seaoat.

I see no hypocrisy at all. I did not decide the format of the old PNJ or the format here. The format of this forum is not the issue. The issue is my observation that America has become wussified. Where grown men are fearful and carry hidden guns. I stand on that observation. Somehow people get all in a huff because they think that this is about the constitution, an insurance policy, or being prepared............it is not. The central issue is fear. The illusion which makes me smile is that somehow when one has a hidden gun, they will face the boogeyman and shoot him. We have seen repeatedly in the news how this has turned out.

I had a friend who was a captain on a volunteer fire department. During a training exercise at an old condemned house, he was directing the fire when the building collapsed. He was severely burned and never fought another fire. Not because he couldn't, but because he chose not to........fear effects each person differently. Some people are so fearful of the outside world that they stay house bound. Some adults fear driving over a bridge, and in Maryland there is a service which drives people over a long bridge. The sad thing is that there is this mass hysteria in a once brave and courageous America to hide a gun on one's person. Make no mistake......there is no middle ground......these decisions are driven by fear.

Gunz wrote:Let me explain in personal terms my take on this fear issue.  I have been a firefighter since I was 16 years old.  At the age of 22 I began to do it as a profession.   The chance that I would be killed while performing my job has always been real and about 3 times so far chance almost popped me.  The thing is is that I dont fear death in the least.  I know that sounds weird but its true.   So, on to the gun issue.   Many times in the past before I obtained my ccwl my wife and I would be called on to search for an autistic child or elderly person with dementia in the less desireable parts of town where the crimes that we read about in the PNJ are committed.    I always wondered if at the age of 48 I could defend myself and wife against 2 or 3 athletic younger men who in all probability had guns.   The answer is easy to arrive at.   I now carry a .45 sir, not because I am a coward but because I am no dummy.  I know my limitations and I will always have my wifes back.  Now, onto this cowardly anonymous posting of derogatory statements.  When I am retired in about 2 years I plan on using my real name here, not because I continuously belittle others intelligence and call names but because I want all to know that if I post it on here then I would say it to your face.  In my opinion calling others names on here while hiding ones identity is the most cowardly thing  one could do.  You are a smart guy seaoat and I'm surprised that you don't see the hypocrisy in your statements about others while hiding behind the name seaoat.

    

Seaoat, by your logic, wouldn't you be the biggest coward of them all?  I would think the chance of being attacked outside the home is greater.  Yet you think you need a gun for safety inside your home.  You can secure your home with heavy doors, dead bolt locks,  an alarm system, dogs, lighting on the outside, etc.  Yet you keep a gun in your home. That must mean you are a wimp, sitting in your house scared to death that the boogeyman is coming to get you.

I don't think this way, but is that what you're saying?

I hunt with my shotguns and a rifle. My shotgun remains unloaded in my closet for the next time I hunt. If somebody wants to break into my home at night and I fear for my safety such that I need to load my shotgun. I will. I have never pointed a gun at another human, and my father taught me gun safety when I hunted with him as a very young child. My house is not a fortress though I so have an eight camera video system with motion detectors. I do not fear home invasion any more than I fear walking down the street and needing a gun. Maybe I am not coward because I am stupid, but I think I have this figured out......the boogeyman threat is overstated.

You might have a point there on why you don't fear home invasion or any other crime. You just haven't been a victim of a brutal enough crime. If you haven't learned from other people's crimes, you never will. As I said earlier, I don't need to have my head split open or be beaten to a pulp just to say I was brave. That's just damn silly. Hell yes,I am fearful of what other people will do and I will do as much as I can to prevent it. If that's being cowardly in your book then so be it. When you're on a ventilator fighting for your life after somebody tried to bash your brains in... then call me a coward for having a gun.We'll see who's foolish then.

2seaoat wrote:I hunt with my shotguns and a rifle.  My shotgun remains unloaded in my closet for the next time I hunt.  If somebody wants to break into my home at night and I fear for my safety such that I need to load my shotgun.  I will.  I have never pointed a gun at another human, and my father taught me gun safety when I hunted with him as a very young child.  My house is not a fortress though I so have an eight camera video system with motion detectors.  I do not fear home invasion any more than I fear walking down the street and needing a gun.  Maybe I am not coward because I am stupid, but I think I have this figured out......the boogeyman threat is overstated.

seems to me a 8 video camera system on your house might put you in the scardy cat category.

Dot wrote:

2seaoat wrote:I hunt with my shotguns and a rifle.  My shotgun remains unloaded in my closet for the next time I hunt.  If somebody wants to break into my home at night and I fear for my safety such that I need to load my shotgun.  I will.  I have never pointed a gun at another human, and my father taught me gun safety when I hunted with him as a very young child.  My house is not a fortress though I so have an eight camera video system with motion detectors.  I do not fear home invasion any more than I fear walking down the street and needing a gun.  Maybe I am not coward because I am stupid, but I think I have this figured out......the boogeyman threat is overstated.

seems to me a 8 video camera system on your house might put you in the scardy cat category.

Goddamn! I was thinking the same thing dot. Hell, some heavy duty dope peddlers don't have a system like that.

Honestly I don't think seaoat actually feels that gun totin is cowardly. I have a hunch that he just started that to screw with Teo. well he's screwing with you too gunz, some might say. Nope, seaoat knows that I don't post on here enough for him to give a rat fart about. That's why I say Teo was the intended victim of the coward shot. He's way too smart to ignore obviously well made out arguments and counter arguments to his coward comments yet his replies were vague and non committal to his point. Yep, he's just fuckin with ole Teo, plain and simple. He got me. lol

Goddamn! I was thinking the same thing dot. Hell, some heavy duty dope peddlers don't have a system like that.

Best $350 I ever spent. It keeps an eye on my equipment.

Gunz wrote:Honestly I don't think seaoat actually feels that gun totin is cowardly.  I have a hunch that he just started that to screw with Teo.    well he's screwing with you too gunz, some might say.   Nope, seaoat knows that I don't post on here enough for him to give a rat fart about.  That's why I say Teo was the intended victim of the coward shot.    He's way too smart to ignore obviously well made out arguments and counter arguments to his coward comments yet his replies were vague and non committal to his point.   Yep, he's just fuckin with ole Teo, plain and simple.   He got me. lol

I feel dirty and used...  

TEOTWAWKI wrote:

Gunz wrote:Honestly I don't think seaoat actually feels that gun totin is cowardly.  I have a hunch that he just started that to screw with Teo.    well he's screwing with you too gunz, some might say.   Nope, seaoat knows that I don't post on here enough for him to give a rat fart about.  That's why I say Teo was the intended victim of the coward shot.    He's way too smart to ignore obviously well made out arguments and counter arguments to his coward comments yet his replies were vague and non committal to his point.   Yep, he's just fuckin with ole Teo, plain and simple.   He got me. lol

I feel dirty and used...  

yeah right....you don't really care what someone who is too scared to post under his real name says anymore than others do.

Gunz wrote:

TEOTWAWKI wrote:

Gunz wrote:Honestly I don't think seaoat actually feels that gun totin is cowardly.  I have a hunch that he just started that to screw with Teo.    well he's screwing with you too gunz, some might say.   Nope, seaoat knows that I don't post on here enough for him to give a rat fart about.  That's why I say Teo was the intended victim of the coward shot.    He's way too smart to ignore obviously well made out arguments and counter arguments to his coward comments yet his replies were vague and non committal to his point.   Yep, he's just fuckin with ole Teo, plain and simple.   He got me. lol

I feel dirty and used...  

   yeah right....you don't really care what someone who is too scared to post under his real name says anymore than others do.

I know you're right. What does he have to lose now that he's retired ?..spill the beans, open the curtain ! Who are ya seaoat ?