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Florida lawmakers vote to expand ‘stand your ground’ law

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Floridatexan
2seaoat
TEOTWAWKI
no stress
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On Thursday, a National Rifle Association-backed bill to expand the state’s self-defense statutes sailed through a key state House committee with bipartisan support. It is expected to pass the full chamber. The “threatened use of force” bill would most likely have prevented Alexander from receiving her lengthy sentence, because it amends “stand your ground” to include the threat of force, not just the use of force itself.

http://news.yahoo.com/florida-lawmakers-vote-to-expand--stand-your-ground--law-200940342.html

no stress

no stress

cheers cheers cheers cheers cheers cheers cheers cheers cheers 

TEOTWAWKI

TEOTWAWKI

When lawful gun owners can open carry justice will have prevailed in Florida.

2seaoat



Florida.....the home of wee willies.

no stress

no stress

TEOTWAWKI wrote:When lawful gun owners can open carry justice will have prevailed in Florida.
We would be like any of the other open carry states where citizens who choose to freely conduct themselves within the law are stopped by the police in the name of public safety and are made under duress to produce ID. I welcome this law as it would further take away penalties for brandishing. To the ones who would label folks who freely excercise their 2nd amendment right as sissies, pussies or other derogatory comments I would ask if you have smoke detectors or fire extinguishers in your home and why? Do you have insurance and why? Do you wear a seat belt when you drive and why? Does having and utilizing these items make you a sissy? Educated people take precautions when their safety is involved and whether the safety device be a weapon or a pressurized container of dry powder the effect on their personal security is the same.

2seaoat



The second amendment right to bear arms is a critical right which I agree completely. A person who has a gun, smoke detector, or insurance in his home is a wise man. A person who walks around in public with a firearm is a coward. I completely understand the need in western states when a person is outdoors on their property. I completely understand people hunting. I completely understand bearing arms to fight tyranny. I do not understand the fear to walk in public without a gun. It is completely alien to me and I have spent my entire life around guns, hunting, and shooting since I was 5. If I become weaker and fearful.....then I would consider a gun.....but really I doubt I could be that fearful.

no stress

no stress

Fire is not constrained to just your home. Accidents do not cease to occur once you leave your property. The risk of a crime being perpetrated on your person does not lessen when you leave your driveway. I have an extinguisher in my automobile, my BC/BS covers me off of my property and my pistol is on my hip where allowed.

Guest


Guest

2seaoat wrote:The second amendment right to bear arms is a critical right which I agree completely.   A person who has a gun, smoke detector, or insurance in his home is a wise man.   A person who walks around in public with a firearm is a coward.   I completely understand the need in western states when a person is outdoors on their property.  I completely understand people hunting.  I completely understand bearing arms to fight tyranny.  I do not understand the fear to walk in public without a gun.  It is completely alien to me and I have spent my entire life around guns, hunting, and shooting since I was 5.  If I become weaker and fearful.....then I would consider a gun.....but really I doubt I could be that fearful.

its more dangerous in public than it is in my home.

Guest


Guest

by 2seaoat Today at 8:16 am
The second amendment right to bear arms is a critical right which I agree completely. A person who has a gun, smoke detector, or insurance in his home is a wise man. A person who walks around in public with a firearm is a coward. I completely understand the need in western states when a person is outdoors on their property. I completely understand people hunting. I completely understand bearing arms to fight tyranny. I do not understand the fear to walk in public without a gun. It is completely alien to me and I have spent my entire life around guns, hunting, and shooting since I was 5. If I become weaker and fearful.....then I would consider a gun.....but really I doubt I could be that fearful.
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There's all sorts of places in this country that are more dangerous than Iraq and Afghanistan. The murder rates are more than combat zones. Chicago is one of them.

Guest


Guest

PACEDOG#1 wrote:by 2seaoat Today at 8:16 am
The second amendment right to bear arms is a critical right which I agree completely. A person who has a gun, smoke detector, or insurance in his home is a wise man. A person who walks around in public with a firearm is a coward. I completely understand the need in western states when a person is outdoors on their property. I completely understand people hunting. I completely understand bearing arms to fight tyranny. I do not understand the fear to walk in public without a gun. It is completely alien to me and I have spent my entire life around guns, hunting, and shooting since I was 5. If I become weaker and fearful.....then I would consider a gun.....but really I doubt I could be that fearful.
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There's all sorts of places in this country that are more dangerous than Iraq and Afghanistan. The murder rates are more than combat zones. Chicago is one of them.

I agree, my son served in Iraq, got blown up 3 times, survived with little scars. came home, took a trip to California, got robbed, stabbed in the face and abdomen, then had his face grinded into the pavement to where he had to have plastic surgery.

He came home from Iraq brainwashed.

2seaoat



Again if a person is scared and fearful, they have a right to carry a gun when they comply with the law. I understand the elderly, and I even understand a small woman being fearful. I just do not understand a grown man being that scared. I know plenty of friends and family in Arizona and have never heard of them or their friends being that scared to carry openly. Simply do not get it. I guess I could buy an insurance policy for an astroid hitting me while I walk, but I am not that scared and the probabilities are very remote. I have lived 62 years and have been attacked twice in public.....I did not need a gun, and got bloodied a little bit in the scuffle. I am more concerned about cowards packing guns who shoot unarmed people and kids in a car than worried about a criminal who has intent to take something from me.

Guest


Guest

2seaoat wrote:Again if a person is scared and fearful, they have a right to carry a gun when they comply with the law.   I understand the elderly, and I even understand a small woman being fearful.  I just do not understand a grown man being that scared.  I know plenty of friends and family in Arizona and have never heard of them or their friends being that scared to carry openly.  Simply do not get it.  I guess I could buy an insurance policy for an astroid hitting me while I walk, but I am not that scared and the probabilities are very remote.  I have lived 62 years and have been attacked twice in public.....I did not need a gun, and got bloodied a little bit in the scuffle.  I am more concerned about cowards packing guns who shoot unarmed people and kids in a car than worried about a criminal who has intent to take something from me.

because the crooks and robbers have guns seaoat. this isn't the days of mayberry. hell even down here we have zombies who eat your face off.

I grew up in a family of hunters. and they all carried and still do carry their guns with them. I can assure you none of them are sissies. even the wimpiest one of them would whoop your ass without a gun. some people love their guns. and its never a bad idea to have them with you.

2seaoat



If he could whoop my asz, why is he carrying a gun?

Guest


Guest

2seaoat wrote:If he could whoop my asz, why is he carrying a gun?

because he likes them.

2seaoat



because he likes them.

Wrong answer....he is scared the boogeyman is going to get him. Real men do not carry concealed weapons in public because they are scared of some general threat to their person. I could understand if your brother had someone stalking and threatening him to be scared enough to have a gun, but really........what type of man is that afraid? I honestly do not get it.

Floridatexan

Floridatexan


http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2014/02/15/3286451/make-sense-dunn-verdict/

"A Florida jury could not reach a verdict on the most serious charge facing Michael Dunn, a first degree murder charge for the fatal shooting of 17-year-old Jordan Davis after a dispute over loud music at a Jacksonville convenience store. Nevertheless, Dunn is all but certain to face a lengthy prison sentence as he was convicted on three counts of attempted second degree murder — one for each of three of Dunn’s friends who were also in the line of fire as Dunn fired ten rounds into their sport utility vehicle.
The judge declared a mistrial on the first degree murder count, leaving prosecutors the option of seeking a new trial.
The Florida shooting was the most prominent fatal shooting of a teen in self-defense since the death of Trayvon Martin drew national attention to Florida’s Stand Your Ground law. The law was also cited in Dunn’s trial.
The shooting occurred after Dunn asked the boys to turn down their music while parked next to him in a Jacksonville convenience store parking lot. His fiancée, Rhonda Rouer, says the last thing she heard him say was, “I hate that thug music.” Rouer was in the convenience store when she heard gunshots, and when she ran outside, he told her to get in the car and they drove away.
Dunn claimed he saw a gun and believed the boys were armed and dangerous. But police found no gun in the car. He said he heard Davis threaten to kill him, and responded by rolling down the window of his car and asking, “Are you talking to me?” Dunn and Rouer spent the night in a hotel, as planned, and their testimony differed about what happened that night, and in the days that followed. Dunn’s friends testified that they knew him as a calm and non-violent man.
During closing arguments, prosecutor John Guy told jurors, “Jordan Davis didn’t have a weapon. He had a big mouth. And that defendant wasn’t gonna stand for it. And it cost Jordan Davis his life.”
Dunn’s lawyer Cory Strolla cited Florida’s Stand Your Ground law in his closing argument, “His honor will further tell you that if Michael Dunn was in a public place where he had a legal right to be, he had no duty to retreat and had the right to stand his ground and meet force with force, including deadly force.” As in the George Zimmerman trial, the Stand Your Ground law was included in the jury instructions.
Alluding to public controversy of the law, Strolla added, “It’s not because I wrote it. It’s not cause I like it. We’re not here to change it and we’re not here to fight it. We’re here to apply it.”
When asked about the relevance of the law to this case during a press conference, Strolla told reporters that he “strategically” decided not to seek a separate Stand Your Ground hearing that could have given Dunn immunity before trial, because of the national media attention. He claimed the law was therefore not relevant to the case. But the jurors were nonetheless advised to consider the law when deciding Dunn’s guilt, by both Strolla and in the jury instructions.

Just prior to the trial, the State Attorney’s Office released a set of letters Dunn sent from prison revealing significant animus toward blacks. “The more time I am exposed to these people, the more prejudiced against them I become,” he said in one. “This jail is full of blacks and they all act like thugs,” he said in another. The letters did not come into play during trial. But they reveal the sort of racial undertones that have been prominent in many Stand Your Ground cases. One study found that white defendants with black victims are far more likely to have their killings deem “justified” under the Stand Your Ground law."

--------------------------

The reason this bad law is in other states is that it was pushed by ALEC. Apparently, even if the law is not used in the defense, it still influences the jury...as in this case...and the Zimmerman case...and apparently every other murder trial in the state of Florida...because it's part of the jury instructions...providing just enough ambiguity to confuse the jurors.

Guest


Guest

this thread isn't a re-hash the dunn thread.

its a florida is expanding the gun law thread.

2seaoat



this thread isn't a re-hash the dunn thread.

its a florida is expanding the gun law thread.




No when you enter the state instead of the seeing the usual welcome sign, there should be a photo of George Zimmerman holding a hand gun with the caption.......We are frightened Chitless..........

Guest


Guest

2seaoat wrote:this thread isn't a re-hash the dunn thread.

its a florida is expanding the gun law thread.




No when you enter the state instead of the seeing the usual welcome sign, there should be a photo of George Zimmerman holding a hand gun with the caption.......We are frightened Chitless..........

I guess you think the founding fathers were frightened shitless too huh Rolling Eyes 

TEOTWAWKI

TEOTWAWKI

I don't see seaoats logic.  If he was in grizzly bear country I would expect he would be smart enough to pack a weapon but maybe he thinks he could talk the heart out of gutting him and eating him alive. There's not a lot of difference between claws and a big guy with a knife.

2seaoat



I guess you think the founding fathers were frightened shitless too huh Rolling Eyes



I have posted this before in the PNJ. There were two concepts which prevailed in the second amendment language. First, under the English system of a well defended country required its citizen to be knowledgeable about weapons, and the second that they could be formed into militias to join regular army units in defense of the country.


There also was a strong desire from the slave states to allow militias to retrieve their property across state lines, and they feared this new national constitution would restrict their rights. This idea that our founding fathers were packing is absurd. They were mostly farmers and yes they would hunt, but damn idea of folks living in towns packing for their protection........what a cowardly country we have become. The police need to protect us as we lose fundamental freedom in a police state, and we have wimps with guns afraid that the boogeyman is going to get them. I never thought this country could be so completely sissified, but when gun peddlers set the agenda and think a man walking around with a hidden gun is the new emblem of masculinity.......I think it is time to pop that propaganda balloon......we are in a state of wimpdom.

2seaoat



If he was in grizzly bear country I would expect he would be smart enough to pack a weapon but maybe he thinks he could talk the heart out of gutting him and eating him alive. There's not a lot of difference between claws and a big guy with a knife.

I lost a friend's brother and fellow eagle scout to a grizzly bear in the 70s. He was hiking alone in the Alaskan wild and when they found what was left of him and his camera, he had taken a picture of the Grizzly that killed him.

The fear of a grizzly bear attack is not going to happen in a civilized area, and most handguns with a grizzly would not be as effective as a rifle or shotgun.

I have been in very tough areas of this country and never once felt the need to protect myself from human predators or criminal behavior. In the era of a cell phone, cars, and video, I find this weak kneed fear irrational. I understand a gun in the home. I understand a rifle in the Alaskan wild. I just do not see myself becoming such a wussy fearful of my fellow man that I would have to supplement my abilities to defend myself in the streets of America. Anybody could get struck by lightening, but to walk around with some lightening protection system just seems silly and cowardly........men in a free society must face risks. I just find men who have concealed weapons to be scared, and that is no way to live life.

ZVUGKTUBM

ZVUGKTUBM

2seaoat wrote:I guess you think the founding fathers were frightened shitless too huh Rolling Eyes



I have posted this before in the PNJ.  There were two concepts which prevailed in the second amendment language.  First, under the English system of a well defended country required its citizen to be knowledgeable about weapons, and the second that they could be formed into militias to join regular army units in defense of the country.


There also was a strong desire from the slave states to allow militias to retrieve their property across state lines, and they feared this new national constitution would restrict their rights.  This idea that our founding fathers were packing is absurd.  They were mostly farmers and yes they would hunt, but damn idea of folks living in towns packing for their protection........what a cowardly country we have become.  The police need to protect us as we lose fundamental freedom in a police state, and we have wimps with guns afraid that the boogeyman is going to get them.  I never thought this country could be so completely sissified, but when gun peddlers set the agenda and think a man walking around with a hidden gun is the new emblem of masculinity.......I think it is time to pop that propaganda balloon......we are in a state of wimpdom.

I agree......

http://www.best-electric-barbecue-grills.com

knothead

knothead

ZVUGKTUBM wrote:
2seaoat wrote:I guess you think the founding fathers were frightened shitless too huh Rolling Eyes



I have posted this before in the PNJ.  There were two concepts which prevailed in the second amendment language.  First, under the English system of a well defended country required its citizen to be knowledgeable about weapons, and the second that they could be formed into militias to join regular army units in defense of the country.


There also was a strong desire from the slave states to allow militias to retrieve their property across state lines, and they feared this new national constitution would restrict their rights.  This idea that our founding fathers were packing is absurd.  They were mostly farmers and yes they would hunt, but damn idea of folks living in towns packing for their protection........what a cowardly country we have become.  The police need to protect us as we lose fundamental freedom in a police state, and we have wimps with guns afraid that the boogeyman is going to get them.  I never thought this country could be so completely sissified, but when gun peddlers set the agenda and think a man walking around with a hidden gun is the new emblem of masculinity.......I think it is time to pop that propaganda balloon......we are in a state of wimpdom.

I agree......

 cheers cheers cheers 

Guest


Guest

2seaoat wrote:I guess you think the founding fathers were frightened shitless too huh Rolling Eyes



I have posted this before in the PNJ.  There were two concepts which prevailed in the second amendment language.  First, under the English system of a well defended country required its citizen to be knowledgeable about weapons, and the second that they could be formed into militias to join regular army units in defense of the country.


There also was a strong desire from the slave states to allow militias to retrieve their property across state lines, and they feared this new national constitution would restrict their rights.  This idea that our founding fathers were packing is absurd.  They were mostly farmers and yes they would hunt, but damn idea of folks living in towns packing for their protection........what a cowardly country we have become.  The police need to protect us as we lose fundamental freedom in a police state, and we have wimps with guns afraid that the boogeyman is going to get them.  I never thought this country could be so completely sissified, but when gun peddlers set the agenda and think a man walking around with a hidden gun is the new emblem of masculinity.......I think it is time to pop that propaganda balloon......we are in a state of wimpdom.

It doesn't matter what you call people. Obviously you are trying to "belittle" gun carriers so as to see your point.

FACT IS, we have the constitution that says we can.

so shove it up your ass. youre opinion on the matter means NOTHING.

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