FOR TEO: This make a really good argument that Jesus was an invention of the Romans

I've watched some of your lengthy documentaries, teo. Now watch one I'm providing and give me your response to it.

Bob I am in agreement with some of this guys work. I am a preterist. I am not allowed to teach my particular beliefs in any mainstream church.  I agree Christ has ALREADY come back in AD 70 at the destruction of Jerusalem. Most of the text both Bible and historical support this. As far as the Romans creating the Christ. I am not in agreement with that. They certainly perverted the teachings of the New Testament though with their dumb doctrines like celibacy and the like plus the even dumber Pope BS....anyway.

Also the Christ's mentioned in the Old Testament often and i am sure the Romans didn't go back and change that along with the dead sea scrolls...

things like this from Daniel..

He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.

Rome was not a Nation when this was written. The prophecy of the Christ that would take away the sins of mankind

Written between (circa) 740-680 B.C

509 - Republic of Rome established


◄ Isaiah 53 ►
New International Version

1Who has believed our message

and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?

2He grew up before him like a tender shoot,

and like a root out of dry ground.

He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him,

nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.

3He was despised and rejected by mankind,

a man of suffering, and familiar with pain.

Like one from whom people hide their faces

he was despised, and we held him in low esteem.

4Surely he took up our pain

and bore our suffering,

yet we considered him punished by God,

stricken by him, and afflicted.

5But he was pierced for our transgressions,

he was crushed for our iniquities;

the punishment that brought us peace was on him,

and by his wounds we are healed.

6We all, like sheep, have gone astray,

each of us has turned to our own way;

and the Lord has laid on him

the iniquity of us all.

7He was oppressed and afflicted,

yet he did not open his mouth;

he was led like a lamb to the slaughter,

and as a sheep before its shearers is silent,

so he did not open his mouth.

8By oppression and judgment he was taken away.

Yet who of his generation protested?

For he was cut off from the land of the living;

for the transgression of my people he was punished.

9He was assigned a grave with the wicked,

and with the rich in his death,

though he had done no violence,

nor was any deceit in his mouth.

10Yet it was the Lord’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer,

and though the Lord makes his life an offering for sin,

he will see his offspring and prolong his days,

and the will of the Lord will prosper in his hand.

11After he has suffered,

he will see the light of life and be satisfied ;

by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many,

and he will bear their iniquities.

12Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,

and he will divide the spoils with the strong,

because he poured out his life unto death,

and was numbered with the transgressors.

For he bore the sin of many,

and made intercession for the transgressors.

Besides the Roman personality was not like the personality of Jesus...all that love your enemies and do good unto them stuff...naw Rome liked killing it's enemies much like the Bush family and others of our empire.

TEOTWAWKI wrote:  I agree Christ has ALREADY come back in AD 70 at the destruction of Jerusalem.

For anyone else reading this:

The documentary makes a really good case that the "2nd Coming" of Jesus already occurred in ancient times.   And Teo is in agreement.
Which if true would of course mean that all these current day Christian pastors brainwashing their congregations into believing that Jesus is coming again is an absurdity.

TEOTWAWKI wrote:Besides the Roman personality was not like the personality of Jesus...all that love your enemies and do good unto them stuff...naw Rome liked killing it's enemies much like the Bush family and others of our empire.

The documentary delves into all of that, Teo. And explains exactly why Jesus was given "that personality".

Bob wrote:

TEOTWAWKI wrote:Besides the Roman personality was not like the personality of Jesus...all that love your enemies and do good unto them stuff...naw Rome liked killing it's enemies much like the Bush family and others of our empire.

The documentary delves into all of that,  Teo.  And explains exactly why Jesus was given "that personality".

Bob let me guess to make people nice little sheeple trusting the government...close ?
PS did you miss the fact that Jesus was mentioned in existence as a savior before Rome even existed ?
Let me use your 911 argument on you...Government isn't that coordinated and smart.

PS did you miss the fact that Jesus was mentioned in existence as a savior before Rome even existed ?

This presupposes that Romans did not know how to read if they were going to invent something which comported with those earlier writings. So in an attempt to undermine a current day bigfoot hoax, your stellar logic would point out ancient writings in many nations which reference a creature like bigfoot to prove that bigfoot and an alleged hoax was actually the truth, and not a hoax. I guess Bob under this logic missed the fact that Bigfoot cannot be a hoax or creation of certain individuals in the modern era, because Bigfoot was referenced in earlier writings. Silly Bob

The Temple will be rebuilt and there are already prefab sections completed so that it can be put up in a fast manner before the Muslims have time to react.

Seaoat are you saved? Do you know Jesus?

Well if I were given the latitude in logic you are taking Boboat we would have long ago arrested tried and executed the Bushes and and many of the Saudis for bringing down the twin towers. Also we have better communication for false flag skullduggery than the Romans did although many of you true believers would sing and praise the government as you were crucified along the appian way for your undying faith that some ragheads brought down the towers with airplanes...

TEOTWAWKI wrote:Well if I were given the latitude in logic you are taking Boboat we would have long ago arrested tried and executed the Bushes and and many of the Saudis for bringing down the twin towers.

That is so partly very true. But they didn't do that ridiculous totally implausible "controlled demolition". Any more than the ancients had to do it either.
Without all that hocus pocus, they BOTH tricked us.
That's the part you really need to think about.

Let's recap...Jesus was a fake, but 9/11 truthers are a bunch of loonies. Got it.

Seaoat are you saved? Do you know Jesus?

I have lived my entire adult life(actually since a freshman in high school) believing in Matthew 6 as my central tenet, so I guess the answer would be yes, but I will shortly find out......I have never thought that history or bibical stories must be taken literally, and find that the pursuit of the same, or the defense of the same misses entirely the clear message of Matthew 6, which in my interpretation is that God communicates with each of us without interpretation of other men......so my declaration of being saved would be the very hypocrisy which he has warned......so I face death with the same uncertainty I have faced life, but my faith in god has not diminished a bit, and like the protestant reformation's affirmation in the scripture of Matthew 6, I am content in utterly having no idea, or being concerned as to what hypocrites loudly preach is the path to salvation, when that roadmap was so exquisitely laid out in Matthew 6.

A modern English translation of Matthew 6

“Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of others to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.

"So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 3 But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4 so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

Here's what I would now like to say to the PNJ person who sent me the link to this documentary earlier today.

Religion is something which transcends the other parts of our thinking processes.  Over thousands upon thousands of years,  it has become as essential to most of us as eating and sleeping.
It doesn't really matter which form it takes or whether or not our ability to reason questions it.  It's just a part of us.  
So while this documentary gives us another perspective,  it won't change anything.  We have hundreds of different perspectives already and nothing has ever changed this one.  I'd rather have to convince others that relativity is bullshit than to convince them this is.

Seems simple to me. Complex systems that replicate themselves don't just happen without a "creator". It would require a LOT of faith to believe they just happened. Especially when some can fly in the air swim in the sea and lots more...

TEOTWAWKI wrote:Seems simple to me. Complex systems that replicate themselves don't just happen without a "creator". It would require a LOT of faith to believe they just happened. Especially when some can fly in the air swim in the sea and lots more...

I was trying to stop obsessing on this but you keep drawing me back in.

I've tried to communicate this to you before and I've always failed.  But something just compels me to keep trying.

I agree that it "just happened" is insane.  But what I have so much problem with trying to communicate is that applying the words "creator" and "creation" is just as insane.
Why?
Really open up your mind this time and try to understand it.  You don't have to accept it but at least understand what it is that you aint accepting.

"It just happened" is a human concept.  Nothing more.  It is only meaningful and applicable when it's describing something we can relate to.  
"Why did that car wreck happen?"  "It just happened"
Why did that dude win the lottery?"  "It just happened"

That "it just happened" stuff only applies to what humans know about and experience.  When you try to apply it to what we've been talking about in this thread,  it's just nonsensical.  And I think you and I agree about that.

BUT,  the term "creator" and "creation" is no different.  It applies nicely to describing a work of art.  Or baking a cake.  Or building a house.
But it is EQUALLY not applicable to what we're talking about here.

The point is,  that you've got it into your head that it all comes down to either "it just happened" or "a creation".  

And neither applies.

You are not going to find any human ideas which can KNOW the nature of our existence.  Because those ideas have no capacity to know it.

Bob I would rather believe all things happen according to an already produced timeline than to believe it just happened. Most accidents can be investigated back to find a cause. Just as all events have a cause. Nothing in this world begins without THOUGHT. Even thoughtlessness.

TEOTWAWKI wrote:Bob I would rather believe all things happen according to an already produced timeline than to believe it just happened.

If that's all you got out of that post then I have utterly failed to communicate.
Trying to communicate this is as difficult as anything I've ever tried to do.

Sal wrote:Mental masturbation is fun and feels good, but ....

I bet you do both at the same time....

Bob wrote:

TEOTWAWKI wrote:Bob I would rather believe all things happen according to an already produced timeline than to believe it just happened.

If that's all you got out of that post then I have utterly failed to communicate.
Trying to communicate this is as difficult as anything I've ever tried to do.

So creator bugs you then call it prime force.

TEOTWAWKI wrote:

So creator bugs you then call it prime force.

Both bug me, teo. "Creator" and "it just happened".
Because neither has any relevance to what we're talking about. That's the point.