HomeSo sorry, but am enjoying not being belittled for my own thoughts.
Pensacola Discussion Forum
This is a forum based out of Pensacola Florida.
I am enoying the SO reprieve.
+8
Ghost Rider
Floridatexan
talknstang
Hospital Bob
ZVUGKTUBM
2seaoat
knothead
stormwatch89
12 posters
Go to page : 1, 2, 3, 4 
Message [Page 1 of 4]
2 Re: I am enoying the SO reprieve. 1/9/2014, 8:26 pm
Guest
Guest
stormwatch89 wrote:So sorry, but am enjoying not being belittled for my own thoughts.
I think your post is fair and I agree.3 Re: I am enoying the SO reprieve. 1/9/2014, 8:26 pm
Guest
Guest
I hadn't noticed he was gone... but he's just playing the idiots advocate... with an enormous advantage.
4 Re: I am enoying the SO reprieve. 1/9/2014, 9:38 pm
knothead
C'mon yall . . . the forum sucks without SO!!
6 Re: I am enoying the SO reprieve. 1/9/2014, 9:49 pm
Guest
Guest
He thinks he knows it al... Game was getting old
7 Re: I am enoying the SO reprieve. 1/9/2014, 10:01 pm
Guest
Guest
knothead wrote:C'mon yall . . . the forum sucks without SO!!
ah, I can see it now. It appears the huddled masses in here like to hide behind the biggest bully they can find and giggle at the verbal bats.
hurry back seaoat, your flock needs you.......... lol
9 Re: I am enoying the SO reprieve. 1/9/2014, 10:27 pm
Guest
Guest
PACEDOG#1 wrote:Seaoat ducks
Is that going to be a new reality show?
*****CHUCKLE*****
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CDVLktIeg0
11 Re: I am enoying the SO reprieve. 1/9/2014, 10:59 pm
stormwatch89
Many years ago I had an employee who had a counter to all.
Difference being was it was always in his attic. Whatever the story, Jack could back up it. That's my take on pitiful SO. Be it correct or not.
Difference being was it was always in his attic. Whatever the story, Jack could back up it. That's my take on pitiful SO. Be it correct or not.
12 Re: I am enoying the SO reprieve. 1/9/2014, 11:20 pm
knothead
stormwatch89 wrote:Many years ago I had an employee who had a counter to all.
Difference being was it was always in his attic. Whatever the story, Jack could back up it. That's my take on pitiful SO. Be it correct or not.
I'm curious stormy, are you saying that SO does not take positions, whether they are popular or vogue or not, and articulate views defending those positions in a civil manner? The piling on here is amazing to me frankly. This man is able to challenge conventional thought and it is sometimes aggravating but what about others here who play devil's advocate? I certainly recognize SO's amazing ability to push buttons and pull strings but he does that to stimulate dialogue. That is the purpose of a forum is it not? I'm sorry that he has made so many uncomfortable but I do not feel he has been out of bounds rather he stimulates the forum and challenges folks to defend their positions. We have a lot of bright posters here, left and right, so what's the problem? Help me understand if I'm missing something.
13 Re: I am enoying the SO reprieve. 1/9/2014, 11:29 pm
2seaoat
I challenge stormy, but I must do the same with kid gloves.....end of story.
14 Re: I am enoying the SO reprieve. 1/9/2014, 11:37 pm
Guest
Guest
My issue with Mr Oats is that he got involved with CMPA project and strongly chastised any of us who dared questioned it. Now he has moved, but we still have the CMP and the problems with it are now growing. It has turned out to be nothing as he had envisioned. Yet he continues to rant on about the project with out any local knowledge of its short comings. He had no dog in the fight. I wish he would have left us, who live here, alone to solve our local problems.
15 Re: I am enoying the SO reprieve. 1/10/2014, 12:12 am
Guest
Guest
Seaoat isn't so bad. You just have to know how to deal with him.
*****CHUCKLE*****
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5K3E5tLoado
16 Re: I am enoying the SO reprieve. 1/10/2014, 12:24 am
Guest
Guest
I've had my times w/ Seaoat but he is certainly a worthy opponent intellectually. The people who complain cannot hold a candle to him... and they know it. LOL!
17 Re: I am enoying the SO reprieve. 1/10/2014, 12:48 am
2seaoat
It has turned out to be nothing as he had envisioned.
It has exceeded my expectations for the project at this point and it is a stunning success. You are entitled to your opinions, but facts in the end tell the whole story. Cities all over America would line up to get a piece of this success, and the grandchildren who will enjoy this park thirty years from now free and clear of debt, will look at the vision of those city movers and shakers like they look at Roosevelt and the national park system........stunning victory for those willing to take risk to keep public space on the bay.
It has exceeded my expectations for the project at this point and it is a stunning success. You are entitled to your opinions, but facts in the end tell the whole story. Cities all over America would line up to get a piece of this success, and the grandchildren who will enjoy this park thirty years from now free and clear of debt, will look at the vision of those city movers and shakers like they look at Roosevelt and the national park system........stunning victory for those willing to take risk to keep public space on the bay.
18 Re: I am enoying the SO reprieve. 1/10/2014, 1:07 am
Guest
Guest
You are aware that they are trying to raise the building height from 60 to 120 feet in order for Condos to be constructed at the CMP? Plans are for a full service Marina and boat docks at Pitts slip not the CMP.
Monday, January 6, 2014
Facts and Opinions Regarding the CMP and the CRA
The further the City moves from the referendum on the Community Maritime Park, the more people forget why the park was developed and what was promised to the Citizens. They also tend to forget who is responsible for backing out on their commitments that the CITY relied on in moving forward.
As new leaders step into roles, it is important that history not be revised and the remaining promises made are kept. I want to share the following regarding the CMP and what the City approved.
Facts and Opinions Regarding CMP
The park itself was NEVER meant to cover its debt service. The CRA bond issue was to be repaid by recurring CRA revenues and the increased CRA revenues that the Park would create in downtown growth.
The park was never meant to be a massive high rise complex of condos and apartments only to have a few upstairs units over shops similar to on Palafox.
The City does not have a pool of current businesses that could afford the high cost office space that towers would provide without causing vacancies in current downtown office spaces.
If the high rises are residential, Pensacola history has shown that promises of 24 hour access to non-residents evaporates as the development progresses. PORT ROYAL IS A PRIME EXAMPLE.
Developments in the downtown core were the means to new CRA revenues. Quint Studer's recent PNJ purchase and redevelopment concept is exactly that type of investment.
Building heights just across Main Street are not limited to 60ft, meaning the ECUA property is the prime location for a mixed use high rise development that uses the CMP as a catalyst
.
Quint Studer has met every commitment he made to the City regarding the CMP and more.
UWF and specifically, Dr. Bense are the primary parties that reneged on their commitment to the Park (Maritime Museum and Conference Center)
Bense has gotten a free pass on reneging on the University's commitment from the press and the Downtown Elite who promoted the Park
.
The CMPA board was way too large for the purpose and in its desire to be inclusive got mired down in management by committee that resulted in delays and missteps.
The Master Developer fiasco and the corresponding lawsuit held up any mixed use prospects for YEARS
.
All of these factors were magnified by the recession.
ECUA had a buyer for the ECUA property who was willing to pay over $7 million in cash for the property. But Downtown elites insisted he detail all of his plans before he would BE ALLOWED to purchase the property. He left. Now the property will sit vacant for more years.
The City has failed terribly in attracting paying events to the CMP and its Amphitheatre.
Since the Mayor paid for Charlie Daniels to play at the Amphitheater, no major act has played there.
All of the not-for-profit groups that came at the encouragement of the CMPA to lobby the CRA/Council for the EXTRA $500,000 needed to finish the "back of house" for the amphitheater have mysteriously disappeared and also reneged on their expressed "intent" to use the amphitheater after the CMPA wasted that money.
The City could encourage the use of the CMP by merely making the permit fees at the CMP low and making permits for other City parks such as Seville Square PROHIBITIVE or off limits, HOWEVER
Events at the CMP are problematic due to lack of access to shelter in case of bad weather, lack of shade for hot summer events and the long distance Citizens with mobility issues have in transiting from available parking, even from the currently available surface parking to the waterfront.
Fixing many of these issues would require additional money but no funds remain.
Meanwhile our Mayor has continually marketed the Commendencia/Pitts Slip area for hotels, conference centers and mixed use at the expense of the CMP.
If you would like to challenge any of the above, please post a comment and I will document my comment with support and provide further insight.
Posted by Maren DeWeese at 8:04 AM
Email This
BlogThis!
Share to Twitter
Share to Facebook
5 comments:
Anonymous said...
agree with most of these...however, the problematic parking is not really as problematic as the perception of it and the drama people like to make of it. parking is better and more accessable than Seville. the arts festival and many others have quality events that attract visitors despite the lack of convenient parking. They make it work. Having on site parking adequate for large events would turn CMP into a parking valley - death valley like the civic center parking when an event is not going on. but it is a learning curve to figure that out for CMP - for event organizers and patrons. if convenient parking is key to success of an event then no event downtown in the past should have been successful. Shade is a different issue, but i suspect there are cities all over the country that have beloved and successful events in open parks. we are spoiled (thankfully) by the beautiful tree canopy of seville and can't seem to see the possibility outside the seville "box." Lord knows, Pensacola doesn't like thinking outside the box or learning new tricks.
January 6, 2014 at 8:41 AM
CJ Lewis said...
For the project to work, it still needs the 976 space multi-level parking garage. That is an integral part of the plan. To find out more about "parking" search for "Community Maritime Park Design Criteria Pattern Book." A link will pop up. The document is posted to that page. The specific parking page in the Design Criteria Pattern Book is B-6 but the most graphic representation of the critical role of parking in the project as intended and approved by voters can be seen in the graphic on page A-1. If I had been in charge of the project, I would have built the parking garage first telling the Studers that they could build their own stadium, pay property taxes on it and operate it at their own profit or loss. In consideration, I would have relieved them of the requirement to build an office building. Shockingly, the CMPA and City Council do not use the Design Criteria Pattern Book as a guide. Most of them do not even know the document exists. Even more sadly, most do not care.
Monday, January 6, 2014
Facts and Opinions Regarding the CMP and the CRA
The further the City moves from the referendum on the Community Maritime Park, the more people forget why the park was developed and what was promised to the Citizens. They also tend to forget who is responsible for backing out on their commitments that the CITY relied on in moving forward.
As new leaders step into roles, it is important that history not be revised and the remaining promises made are kept. I want to share the following regarding the CMP and what the City approved.
Facts and Opinions Regarding CMP
The park itself was NEVER meant to cover its debt service. The CRA bond issue was to be repaid by recurring CRA revenues and the increased CRA revenues that the Park would create in downtown growth.
The park was never meant to be a massive high rise complex of condos and apartments only to have a few upstairs units over shops similar to on Palafox.
The City does not have a pool of current businesses that could afford the high cost office space that towers would provide without causing vacancies in current downtown office spaces.
If the high rises are residential, Pensacola history has shown that promises of 24 hour access to non-residents evaporates as the development progresses. PORT ROYAL IS A PRIME EXAMPLE.
Developments in the downtown core were the means to new CRA revenues. Quint Studer's recent PNJ purchase and redevelopment concept is exactly that type of investment.
Building heights just across Main Street are not limited to 60ft, meaning the ECUA property is the prime location for a mixed use high rise development that uses the CMP as a catalyst
.
Quint Studer has met every commitment he made to the City regarding the CMP and more.
UWF and specifically, Dr. Bense are the primary parties that reneged on their commitment to the Park (Maritime Museum and Conference Center)
Bense has gotten a free pass on reneging on the University's commitment from the press and the Downtown Elite who promoted the Park
.
The CMPA board was way too large for the purpose and in its desire to be inclusive got mired down in management by committee that resulted in delays and missteps.
The Master Developer fiasco and the corresponding lawsuit held up any mixed use prospects for YEARS
.
All of these factors were magnified by the recession.
ECUA had a buyer for the ECUA property who was willing to pay over $7 million in cash for the property. But Downtown elites insisted he detail all of his plans before he would BE ALLOWED to purchase the property. He left. Now the property will sit vacant for more years.
The City has failed terribly in attracting paying events to the CMP and its Amphitheatre.
Since the Mayor paid for Charlie Daniels to play at the Amphitheater, no major act has played there.
All of the not-for-profit groups that came at the encouragement of the CMPA to lobby the CRA/Council for the EXTRA $500,000 needed to finish the "back of house" for the amphitheater have mysteriously disappeared and also reneged on their expressed "intent" to use the amphitheater after the CMPA wasted that money.
The City could encourage the use of the CMP by merely making the permit fees at the CMP low and making permits for other City parks such as Seville Square PROHIBITIVE or off limits, HOWEVER
Events at the CMP are problematic due to lack of access to shelter in case of bad weather, lack of shade for hot summer events and the long distance Citizens with mobility issues have in transiting from available parking, even from the currently available surface parking to the waterfront.
Fixing many of these issues would require additional money but no funds remain.
Meanwhile our Mayor has continually marketed the Commendencia/Pitts Slip area for hotels, conference centers and mixed use at the expense of the CMP.
If you would like to challenge any of the above, please post a comment and I will document my comment with support and provide further insight.
Posted by Maren DeWeese at 8:04 AM
Email This
BlogThis!
Share to Twitter
Share to Facebook
5 comments:
Anonymous said...
agree with most of these...however, the problematic parking is not really as problematic as the perception of it and the drama people like to make of it. parking is better and more accessable than Seville. the arts festival and many others have quality events that attract visitors despite the lack of convenient parking. They make it work. Having on site parking adequate for large events would turn CMP into a parking valley - death valley like the civic center parking when an event is not going on. but it is a learning curve to figure that out for CMP - for event organizers and patrons. if convenient parking is key to success of an event then no event downtown in the past should have been successful. Shade is a different issue, but i suspect there are cities all over the country that have beloved and successful events in open parks. we are spoiled (thankfully) by the beautiful tree canopy of seville and can't seem to see the possibility outside the seville "box." Lord knows, Pensacola doesn't like thinking outside the box or learning new tricks.
January 6, 2014 at 8:41 AM
CJ Lewis said...
For the project to work, it still needs the 976 space multi-level parking garage. That is an integral part of the plan. To find out more about "parking" search for "Community Maritime Park Design Criteria Pattern Book." A link will pop up. The document is posted to that page. The specific parking page in the Design Criteria Pattern Book is B-6 but the most graphic representation of the critical role of parking in the project as intended and approved by voters can be seen in the graphic on page A-1. If I had been in charge of the project, I would have built the parking garage first telling the Studers that they could build their own stadium, pay property taxes on it and operate it at their own profit or loss. In consideration, I would have relieved them of the requirement to build an office building. Shockingly, the CMPA and City Council do not use the Design Criteria Pattern Book as a guide. Most of them do not even know the document exists. Even more sadly, most do not care.
19 Re: I am enoying the SO reprieve. 1/10/2014, 1:14 am
2seaoat
Same parochial political whine without objective analysis......no dog in the fight, but I will not stand by when an aura of lies creates a smoke screen to reality......the park right now pays for itself, but by contract the allocation is not ideal. However, each year more development will come on line. The folks who are running for Mayor, are simply whiners who fan the fire for the usual suspects who think this project is about special interests.....sorry in thirty years it will be paid for and it will be a cash cow in year 5-10 years. The rest is whining.
20 Re: I am enoying the SO reprieve. 1/10/2014, 1:16 am
Guest
Guest
.stunning victory for those willing to take risk to keep public space on the bay.
Who is taking the risk? You? LOL You live a 1,000 miles away.
Who is taking the risk? You? LOL You live a 1,000 miles away.
21 Re: I am enoying the SO reprieve. 1/10/2014, 1:17 am
ZVUGKTUBM
I think Seaoat missed his calling. He would have made a great Senator for this state. 
22 Re: I am enoying the SO reprieve. 1/10/2014, 1:29 am
Guest
Guest
ZVUGKTUBM wrote:I think Seaoat missed his calling. He would have made a great Senator for this state.
He could be another W D Childers. LOL
23 Re: I am enoying the SO reprieve. 1/10/2014, 1:45 am
2seaoat
I have ran for office and when I got up and gave speeches, I spoke the truth. You do not get elected telling the truth. You finish third out of four candidates. You get endorsements on integrity and honesty, but you do not win elections. I believe to the very essence of my soul how successful Maritime Park has been, and I think Friday I will take a walk about celebrating what a beautiful park has been created, and then play poker that night realizing what probabilities are and how with a winning hand you sometimes lose, and how with a losing hand you sometimes win, but understanding the probabilities is the key to winning more than you lose.......Maritime Park is winning more than it loses.
24 Re: I am enoying the SO reprieve. 1/10/2014, 1:49 am
Guest
Guest
Even better when you gamble with someones else's money. Win Win for the Oats.
25 Re: I am enoying the SO reprieve. 1/10/2014, 1:52 am
Guest
Guest
2seaoat wrote:I have ran for office and when I got up and gave speeches, I spoke the truth. You do not get elected telling the truth. You finish third out of four candidates. You get endorsements on integrity and honesty, but you do not win elections. I believe to the very essence of my soul how successful Maritime Park has been, and I think Friday I will take a walk about celebrating what a beautiful park has been created, and then play poker that night realizing what probabilities are and how with a winning hand you sometimes lose, and how with a losing hand you sometimes win, but understanding the probabilities is the key to winning more than you lose.......Maritime Park is winning more than it loses.
STEP AWAY FROM THE VEHICLE SIR... HANDS UP... BEHIND UR BACK..!!
Message [Page 1 of 4]
Go to page : 1, 2, 3, 4
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
|
|
|