NFL and Bullying

I live for football season, college more so than professional. We will have three televisions on at the same time, in the same room, so we can watch multiple games.

I never enjoyed participating in sports. I lack some type of competitive drive. I never took pleasure in winning because I always felt bad for the team that loss. Even now I feel so sorry when a player on "the other" team fumbles or misses a kick, in college games. Not so much in a professional game.

I love it when little kids are playing team sports. Sometimes they do not know whether they win or lose. All they care about is the post-game snack.

I don't like to watch Football -- I like to watch men watch Football ,  They yell and stomp around and scream .  

I don't like to watch Football -- I like to watch men watch Football , They yell and stomp around and scream . Laughing

Men become emotionally involved with a inanimate tv.

The real problem is that non-professional football, played by high-schoolers, is played pretty much for the fun and pizzaz. Except for the injuries, it's perfect for the mentalities of teenagers and their parents. At the professional level, it's still a teenager game, with all the high testosterone, macho nuances, played by adults whose development as maturing human beings has been curtailed -- on purpose, to provide profit-earning spectacle for owners who exploit the players the same way McDonald's uses its employees. The players live in their own world of sweaty jockstraps hoping for one more season -- no different than Rome's gladiators did at the coliseum. A perfect example of the lack of maturity of pro-footballers is the fact that Incognito's bullying went on for months and NO ONE complained.

Football at the professional level is for people suffering massive levels of arrested development.

If I could go back and talk to me in hs... I would've told me not to play football. But I'd have never listened to an old fart.

Football at the professional level is for people suffering massive levels of arrested development.

I doubt you have ever even had a conversation with an NFL player. I also doubt that you have had a conversation with a College Football Player. Your understanding of the game is limited if you think the exploitation happens at the pro level. College football generates billions, and the folks I know who had scholarships figured their time allocation to be about a buck fifty an hour. The college football money machine is where exploitation is happening.

Pro football is incredibly competitive and almost freakish when looking at size, speed, and strength. The get compensated well, but with the growing body of evidence that head injuries are cumulative, the NFL has crafted a recovery pool, but what about college football as they bank their billions.

Yes, some football players can be brutish and stereotypical. I was a party with a very well known Defensive coach at San Diego and with the Vikings who I observed throw a beer in a girl's face, and then tell her do you think this is a high school prom.........later that night he had her upstairs.....some times the Incognito type behavior is rewarded, but leadership and coaching can simply nip that in the bud.

PkrBum wrote:

2seaoat wrote:I stopped my softball leagues and basketball leagues at about 51. It was getting longer and longer to recover, and my knees were sore for days after a game, and the hamstring problems in the softball just took the fun out of it. I go to Arizona and see folks who are seventy playing competitive softball, but my wheels have worn out and with the left lobe missing I struggle even with golf now.

You lasted longer at softball and b-ball than I did... but it was really that I had to choose one sport (besides fishing and hunting). Golf kills my back... I can barely finish a round anymore... and then suffer for at least a week. I only play once or twice a year now... badly I might add.

Did you play softball in p'cola? There were some amazing players and teams in that area... epic even.

Horace Jones (DE for the Raiders) was something else. He hit the only ball at me that I ever ducked out of... EVER.

I played ss and he topped a ball... I swear that thing elongated and was hissing like a rattle snake. It was diving short as I was leaning into it... but I couldn't get there and it bounced four feet in front of me. I turned to the side... to live.

Back in the Late 50s, early 60s Ladies soft ball was BIG in Pensacola. They played a lot at Kiwanis park. I lived only a few hundred feet from the park. The City recreation dept was doing well back then. That is before they abandoned the West side. Kiwanis was too small for the men but perfect for the women. Quite a few people would go watch the games. The would let us kids work the score board. They had yellow lights for the ball and strikes but the runs we put up by hand. Sometimes you would get a ball for helping or if you saved up your time you might could score a bat. Bottle Bats were the rage, the best I can remember. I can remember doing my homework in my bedroom and hearing the announcer calling "Betty Bloop now batting for the Chemtrand twisters" LOL .

Mr Ichi wrote:Back in the Late 50s, early 60s Ladies  soft ball was BIG in Pensacola.  They played a lot at Kiwanis park.  I lived only a few hundred feet from the park.   The City recreation dept was doing well back then.  That is before they abandoned the West side.  Kiwanis was too small for the men but perfect for the women. Quite a few people would go watch the games. The would let us kids work the score board.  They had yellow lights for the ball and strikes but the runs we put up by hand.  Sometimes you would get a ball for helping or if you saved up your time you might could score a bat.  Bottle Bats were the rage, the best I can remember.  I can remember doing my homework in my bedroom and hearing the announcer calling "Betty Bloop now batting for the Chemtrand twisters"  LOL  .

Men's softball was big throughout the 70's......a lot of the games were at Exchange Park off Bayou Blvd and Gulf Breeze.

Itchi , I remember the Pensacola recreation dept. had summer camps at area parks. We played softball there and had tournaments along with competitive field events at Kawanis Park...all area parks attended.

2seaoat wrote:Football at the professional level is for people suffering massive levels of arrested development.  

I doubt you have ever even had a conversation with an NFL player.   I also doubt that you have had a conversation with a College Football Player.  Your understanding of the game is limited if you think the exploitation happens at the pro level.  College football generates billions, and the folks I know who had scholarships figured their time allocation to be about a buck fifty an hour.  The college football money machine is where exploitation is happening.

Pro football is incredibly competitive and almost freakish when looking at size, speed, and strength.   The get compensated well, but with the growing body of evidence that head injuries are cumulative, the NFL has crafted a recovery pool, but what about college football as they bank their billions.

Yes, some football players can be brutish and stereotypical.  I was a party with a very well known Defensive coach at San Diego and with the Vikings who I observed throw a beer in a girl's face, and then tell her do you think this is a high school prom.........later that night he had her upstairs.....some times the Incognito type behavior is rewarded, but leadership and coaching can simply nip that in the bud.

I spent three days at a sports show with Bob Lily, whom we hired as a spokesperson for our company. Fred Drier (LA Rams) was a good friend.
so much for your assumptions! LOL

Wordslinger wrote:The big news today is that a Dolphin's player quit because he was bullied.

C'mon, get real.  The game was designed for 14-year-olds so why is anyone surprised when professional football players show they have the mental level of an over-sexed teenager?

Professional football players live in their own fantasy world . . and if and when any of them grow-up, they are cut loose to try and make their way in a world that doesn't worship jockstrap sweat.  The facts are, most former NFL players never make the adjustment to the real world that we all share.  They drink or drug themselves to death, their divorce rates are phenomenally high, and like many of today's warriors, their suicide rates continue to climb.

Reality.

All I can say is that the NFL player is a giant crybaby.

PACEDOG#1 wrote:

Wordslinger wrote:The big news today is that a Dolphin's player quit because he was bullied.

C'mon, get real.  The game was designed for 14-year-olds so why is anyone surprised when professional football players show they have the mental level of an over-sexed teenager?

Professional football players live in their own fantasy world . . and if and when any of them grow-up, they are cut loose to try and make their way in a world that doesn't worship jockstrap sweat.  The facts are, most former NFL players never make the adjustment to the real world that we all share.  They drink or drug themselves to death, their divorce rates are phenomenally high, and like many of today's warriors, their suicide rates continue to climb.

Reality.

All I can say is that the NFL player is a giant crybaby.

Foolish to say unless you know all the facts.

I spent three days at a sports show with Bob Lily, whom we hired as a spokesperson for our company. Fred Drier (LA Rams) was a good friend.
so much for your assumptions! LOL


Those were two good men. Are you telling me your opinion of Pro football players was based on those two men, and exactly what did they do to have you harbor such a negative view of pro football players? Again they were smart and the were gentlemen.

2seaoat wrote:I spent three days at a sports show with Bob Lily, whom we hired as a spokesperson for our company. Fred Drier (LA Rams) was a good friend.
so much for your assumptions! LOL


Those were two good men.  Are you telling me your opinion of Pro football players was based on those two men, and exactly what did they do to have you harbor such a negative view of pro football players?   Again they were smart and the were gentlemen.

You are (for once) correct: Lily and Drier were erudite, well-mannered gentlemen. When I knew him, Lily was much more interested in nature photography (he specialized in photographing birds) than football.

And no, my negative perspective of pro-football and its minions doesn't come from my personal relationships with any players. Taken away from the game and out of the locker room, I'm pretty sure the players are intelligent, decent and surprisingly courteous people. It's the game and the money and the testosterone madness and the constant child-like fostering of macho-itis (promulgated for the most part by management and the press), combined with idol-like worship from fans who, clearly by their actions in the stands, their clothing, and all the other "championship" crapola that helps promote tantrum-throwing, childish bullying like that of Incognito. In the locker room, and on the field of play, pro footballers don't behave like men, but like teenagers -- cheered on by idiots.

The ass-pats, the ball spiking, the touchdown dances, the chest banging, and all the other symbols of arrested development -- much of it, I suspect, performance art designed to keep fan ferver at force 5 pitch.

Reality.

Markle, are you going to defend a crybaby making millions of dollars to play a kids game?

Wordslinger wrote:I spent three days at a sports show with Bob Lily, whom we hired as a spokesperson for our company.

We got an expert over here!

PACEDOG#1 wrote:Markle, are you going to defend a crybaby making millions of dollars to play a kids game?

Jonathan Martin is a Stanford graduate who played under Jim Harbaugh for three years.  Both of his parents are Harvard graduates.  Jonathan's past coaches have nothing but great things to say about him.

Icognito was kicked off of Nebraska twice.  He was kicked off of Oregon once.  He has a history of bar brawls.  He has an IQ south of mountain dew.  





Smart, well-adjusted people like Tony Dungy placed Incognito on a "DO NOT DRAFT" list.


By a show of hands, who here is even the least bit surprised that PACEDOG is taking the side of Incognito?

http://mmqb.si.com/2013/11/07/richie-incognito-jonathan-martin-dolphins-lydon-murtha/?eref=sihp

From the article:

I don’t have a dog in this fight.

I want that to be very clear. I played offensive tackle for the Miami Dolphins from 2009 until the 2012 preseason, when I was released after tearing ligaments in my foot and injuring my back, both requiring surgery. I have since retired, and I’m happily working in the auto industry and living outside of Miami. I went to college at Nebraska with Richie Incognito, and I consider myself friends with him and Jonathan Martin, but I don’t speak with them regularly and I’m not taking sides. I’m only interested in the truth, which is what I’m going to share, from my own experiences and from conversations with friends still on the team.

Before I correct some of the misconceptions and outright lies being reported in the course of this story, let’s first establish who Martin and Incognito are as human beings and their relationship with one another.

From the beginning, when he was drafted in April 2012, Martin did not seem to want to be one of the group. He came off as standoffish and shy to the rest of the offensive linemen. He couldn’t look anyone in the eye, which was puzzling for a football player at this level on a team full of grown-ass men. We all asked the same question: Why won’t he be open with us? What’s with the wall being put up? I never really figured it out. He did something I’d never seen before by balking at the idea of paying for a rookie dinner, which is a meal for a position group paid for by rookies. (For example, I paid $9,600 for one my rookie year.) I don’t know if Martin ever ended up paying for one, as I was cut before seeing the outcome.
Incognito and Martin (Lynne Sladky/AP)Incognito and Martin (Lynne Sladky/AP)

Martin was expected to play left tackle beside Incognito at guard from the start, so Incognito took him under his wing. They were close friends by all apperances. Martin had a tendency to tank when things would get difficult in practice, and Incognito would lift him up. He’d say, there’s always tomorrow. Richie has been more kind to Martin than any other player.

In other situations, when Martin wasn’t showing effort, Richie would give him a lot of crap. He was a leader on the team, and he would get in your face if you were unprepared or playing poorly. The crap he would give Martin was no more than he gave anyone else, including me. Other players said the same things Incognito said to Martin, so you’d need to suspend the whole team if you suspend Incognito.

Which brings me to my first point: I don’t believe Richie Incognito bullied Jonathan Martin. I never saw Martin singled out, excluded from anything, or treated any differently than the rest of us. We’d have dinners and the occasional night out, and everyone was invited. He was never told he can’t be a part of this. It was the exact opposite. But when he came out, he was very standoffish. That’s why the coaches told the leaders, bring him out of his shell. Figure him out a little bit.

That’s where Incognito ran into a problem. Personally, I know when a guy can’t handle razzing. You can tell that some guys just aren’t built for it. Incognito doesn’t have that filter. He was the jokester on the team, and he joked with everybody from players to coaches. That voicemail he sent came from a place of humor, but where he really screwed up was using the N-word. That, I cannot condone, and it’s probably the biggest reason he’s not with the team right now. Odd thing is, I’ve heard Incognito call Martin the same thing to his face in meetings and all Martin did was laugh. Many more worse things were said about others in the room from all different parties. It’s an Animal House. Now Incognito’s being slandered as a racist and a bigot, and unfortunately that’s never going to be wiped clean because of all the wrong he’s done people in his past. But if you really know who Richie is, he’s a really good, kind man and far from a racist.

In my experience, he’s not the kind of person who would extort someone for $15,000. The notion that Martin was forced to pay for a trip he didn’t attend has been misrepresented.

   Playing football is a man’s job, and if there’s any weak link, it gets weeded out. It’s the leaders’ job on the team to take care of it.

Every year, as tradition, the offensive line goes on a big Vegas trip. Everything is paid for in advance, from hotels to a private jet to show tickets. Martin originally verbally committed to the trip, then later backed out after everything was booked. Now, if you can’t go because of an emergency then it’s okay, but to say you’re going and then decide you don’t want to spend the money later? Everything was paid for, and then when it was time to pay up he didn’t want to go anymore. You don’t do that to your brothers. The veterans who paid for it, including Incognito and others, asked for Martin’s share, and he gave it to them. End of story.

The silliest part of this story, to me, is the incident at the cafeteria, in which Martin was supposed to have been hazed when everyone got up from their seats as he sat down. Whoever leaked that story failed to share that getting up from a packed lunch table when one lineman sits down is a running gag that has been around for years. It happened to me more than once, and it happened to Martin because guys on the team say he was overcoming an illness. Just like when a guy is hurt, the joke is, I don’t want to sit with you, you’ve got the bug. Perhaps for Martin it was the straw that broke the camel’s back, but when Incognito reached him after he stormed out, Martin told him the departure had nothing to do with Incognito. Martin said it was something else. Then the media onslaught began.

Incognito was made a scapegoat for the hell coming down on the Dolphins organization, which in turn said it knew nothing about any so-called hazing. That’s the most outlandish lie of this whole thing. The coaches know everything. The coaches know who’s getting picked on and in many cases call for that player to be singled out. Any type of denial on that side is ridiculous. I have friends on more than a dozen teams, and it’s the same everywhere. What people want to call bullying is something that is never going away from football. This is a game of high testosterone, with men hammering their bodies on a daily basis. You are taught to be an aggressive person, and you typically do not make it to the NFL if you are a passive person. There are a few, but it’s very hard. Playing football is a man’s job, and if there’s any weak link, it gets weeded out. It’s the leaders’ job on the team to take care of it.
Ryan Tannehill and Lydon Murtha (Charles Trainor Jr./Getty Images)Quarterback Ryan Tannehill (17) said Wednesday that he was surprised by the bullying allegations, a sentiment shared by ex-Dolphin Lydon Murtha, seen here in a 2012 preseason game.  (Charles Trainor Jr./Getty Images)

The most unfortunate thing about this situation is the consequence it will have on the careers of both men. Richie’s marked himself now as a racist and a bigot, and unfortunately that could be the end of it. Martin is on the opposite end of the spectrum, but no more likely than Incognito to return to the NFL if he wants. In going to the media with his problem, Martin broke the code, and it shows that he’s not there for his teammates and he’s not standing up for himself. There might be a team that gives him a chance because he’s a good person, but the players will reject him. They’ll think, If I say one thing he’s going to the press. He’ll never earn the respect of teammates and personnel in the NFL because he didn’t take care of business the right way.

What fans should understand is that every day in the NFL there are battles between players worse than what’s being portrayed. This racial slur would be a blip on the radar if everything that happens in the locker room went public. But all over the league, problems are hashed out in house. Either you talk about it or you get physical. But at the end of the day, you handle it indoors.

This Incognito guy is simply getting a bad rap.  Cough cough.  

This is a true testament as to how bankrupt the Dolphins locker room is at the moment.  This organization needs to clean house.  New GM, new coaching staff, new everything.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9944012/police-report-filed-richie-incognito-alleged-molestation-2012-no-charges

Recently suspended offensive lineman Richie Incognito was investigated last year for harassing a volunteer at the Miami Dolphins' annual golf tournament by allegedly molesting her with a golf club, according to Aventura, Fla., police.

The original police report states that the alleged incident happened at the Turnberry Resort & Club in Aventura, but no charges were filed against Incognito.

The 34-year-old volunteer told police Incognito had been drinking and was "acting very inappropriate towards her," and that she went to police after Incognito said he wouldn't apologize.

The report states that the volunteer told police that Incognito "used his golf club to touch her by rubbing it up against her vagina, then up her stomach then to her chest. He then used the club to knock a pair of sunglasses off the top of her head.

"After that, he proceeded to lean up against her buttocks with his private parts as if dancing, saying 'Let it rain! Let it rain!'" the report states. "He finally finished his inappropriate behavior by emptying bottled water in her face."

I cannot believe this story. It is identical to the behavior I saw at a party where a well known defensive lineman who later became defensive coach at San Diego and MN abused a girl at a party with some of the most brutish behavior where he was arguing with this girl and when she spoke up for herself, he throws a beer in her face, and tells her that this is not the Fing Senior Prom..........she takes a full plastic cup of beer in the face......and within about fifteen minutes he takes her upstairs........his boorish behavior was repeated, and I am certain it was repeated and rewarded in the past. I had never seen anything like that in my life, but to generalize that all football players are like that.......nope. He is 62 years old and I will have to check if he is with anyone now, but I used to laugh my asz off when on Monday night football they would be talking about what a great coach, and human being this guy was.......a big not.

Incognito's behavior should have been nipped in the bud.........in college, but like the person I have described.....their boorish behavior got rewarded and at Miami it appears it was utilized by management.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=G0mhLbJJ9Ao



This is just how I feel about it !---He needs an old fashioned butt whoopin!