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Democrats Debate lineup

+6
Telstar
bigdog
Sal
RealLindaL
zsomething
othershoe1030
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351Democrats Debate lineup - Page 15 Empty Re: Democrats Debate lineup 7/22/2019, 8:30 pm

Sal

Sal

othershoe1030 wrote:It would be really nice if everybody would just give up the circular firing squad and be happy with an anti-Trump vote. This reminds me of a joke that I'm going to tell badly, but hope you get the point.

Somehow a guy had fallen over the side of a cliff while hiking and another hiker came by just in time to grab him by the hand. He asked: are you religious? Yes, came the reply. Are you Christian? Yes, came the reply. Are you Baptist? Yes, came the reply. What denomination? To which the guy, hanging over the edge of the cliff gave the wrong answer and his "rescuer" let him fall to his death.

The point being, OMG. If the Evangelicals, gun rights supporters, forced birth people, international bankers, corporate lobbyists, and people in the extraction industries can all get together to elect and support this dangerous ninny in the White House, I think we should be able to, shall I say, overlook these rather insignificant differences represented on this forum? Is it possible? Just saying.

Cmon ...

... Seaoat’s not around anymore ...

... someone’s gotta stir the pot.

352Democrats Debate lineup - Page 15 Empty Re: Democrats Debate lineup 7/22/2019, 9:08 pm

bigdog



Sal wrote:
othershoe1030 wrote:It would be really nice if everybody would just give up the circular firing squad and be happy with an anti-Trump vote. This reminds me of a joke that I'm going to tell badly, but hope you get the point.

Somehow a guy had fallen over the side of a cliff while hiking and another hiker came by just in time to grab him by the hand. He asked: are you religious? Yes, came the reply. Are you Christian? Yes, came the reply. Are you Baptist? Yes, came the reply. What denomination? To which the guy, hanging over the edge of the cliff gave the wrong answer and his "rescuer" let him fall to his death.

The point being, OMG. If the Evangelicals, gun rights supporters, forced birth people, international bankers, corporate lobbyists, and people in the extraction industries can all get together to elect and support this dangerous ninny in the White House, I think we should be able to, shall I say, overlook these rather insignificant differences represented on this forum? Is it possible? Just saying.

Cmon ...

... Seaoat’s not around anymore ...

... someone’s gotta stir the pot.
The man was obviously a "foot washing" Baptist and didn't deserve to live!!!


All kidding aside, my mom didn't want my little sister dating a boy because he was a foot washer instead of just a regular fundamentalist like we were supposed to be. 
It's sad, but it's true. So she married another good fundie who committed bigamy on her 7 years later.
But, to his credit, he never washed anyone's feet inside of a church house, so he wasn't all bad Very Happy

353Democrats Debate lineup - Page 15 Empty Re: Democrats Debate lineup 7/25/2019, 10:07 pm

Telstar

Telstar

354Democrats Debate lineup - Page 15 Empty Re: Democrats Debate lineup 7/26/2019, 9:23 am

Telstar

Telstar

“SHE’S DANGEROUS”: GOP INSIDERS FEAR KAMALA COULD BE THE NEXT OBAMA

Rattled by her deft vivisection of Joe Biden at the last debate, Republicans wonder how Harris might do against a real villain like Trump. “She doesn’t come across as a nutjob,” worries one GOP operative. “Kamala is a nightmare,” says another.

About the time Kamala Harris finished slicing and dicing Joe Biden, like Ed Valenti demonstrating a Ginsu knife, my cell phone started pinging with Republican operatives saying, in effect, “I told you so.”

For months I’ve been in contact with a group of senior Republican strategists keeping tabs on Donald Trump and the party’s view of the unfolding Democratic presidential primary. Since the beginning of the campaign, these people have been worried that Biden constituted the biggest political threat to Trump’s reelection. Early public opinion polls certainly lend credibility to their concerns. But a smaller, though equally distinguished group of Republican operatives in my Rolodex, a sort of GOP cult of Kamala, had been insisting for weeks that Harris was being radically underestimated. With her surgical vivisection of Biden in the first debate, it seemed their fears had been realized. Now, as Democrats prepare for a second round of debates next week, these strategists are raising the alarm.

“I think she’s dangerous, and probably maybe the most dangerous, from our view,” a veteran Republican political consultant told me this month. “She theoretically would do very well with African American turnout and end up being positioned as a Vienna Soccer Mom.” In case you’re wondering, that’s Vienna, Virginia, an upscale bedroom community just west of Washington, D.C., that has accelerated its drift from the Republican orbit since a certain former reality-television star secured the Republican nomination three years ago. Suburbs just like it in critical battlegrounds could hand the White House back to the Democratic Party in 2020.

“She made a mistake with private health care,” this Republican operative conceded, referring to Harris’s serial flip-flops on Medicare for All and whether her plans for overhauling health care would lead to the abolition of private insurance. “But she doesn’t come across as a nutjob.”

Harris, 54, is California’s junior U.S. senator and former state attorney general. She might have more natural political skill than any of her competitors for the Democratic nomination. She certainly checks more boxes—African American, woman, racially diverse, a legitimate strength in a party occasionally obsessed with identity politics. Harris also is something of a Washington outsider, or could claim to be, at least, having served in Congress for less than three years. Unlike Biden, she has not spent decades on Capitol Hill making tough choices or agreeing to imperfect compromises.

If any of this rings familiar, it’s because it is. The last Democrat to win the presidency, Barack Obama, was all of those things, save for the obvious. That is why some Republicans take it as an article of faith that by the time the Democrats gather in Milwaukee a little less than a year from now to coronate their nominee, Harris will be the guest of honor. Who else could they possibly nominate? some Republicans have told me, convinced. But in dismantling Biden on the big stage in Miami, Harris showcased how she might earn it—and why next week’s debate in Detroit could be decisive.

Not everyone buys the idea that Harris is the next Obama, superficial similarities aside. “She’s overrated,” says a Republican grandee who still has battle scars from run-ins with the 44th president. “Obama had authenticity. She doesn’t.” Another Republican strategist who doesn’t buy the the hype called Harris “terrible” and “a disaster.”

But some dialed-in Republicans described Harris as a serious threat. “I have long been most concerned about Harris. I think she has an appeal to the Scottsdale soccer mom who is a registered Republican. Between her appeal and Trump’s women problems, she has probably already won those voters,” said an experienced Republican consultant in Arizona, an emerging battleground that sent a Democrat to the U.S. Senate in 2018 for the first time in a generation and is ground zero for suburban discontent with Trump. “But I also think she does better amongst Independents who generally split ideologically in Arizona,” this GOP insider added. “Independents are just sick of everything, and her no-nonsense approach would have appeal broadly, and even to some white Independent and GOP men. She doesn’t have the Biden wimp factor, and that’s probably important in a place like Arizona.”

Harris wasn’t simply declared the winner of the first Democratic debate of the party’s 2020 primary by the punditocracy. Grouped with Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont and Biden, a former six-term U.S. senator and two-term vice president in the midst of his third bid for the White House, each with several big-time debates under their belt, Harris, in her first pressure-packed presidential face-off, put on a clinic. But it wasn’t her win on points that impressed some Republicans who have been watching the Democratic food fight in an effort to game out next year. In nailing Biden to the wall on the matter of his past opposition to federally mandated busing (wildly unpopular at the time), Harris managed to turn folksy Uncle Joe into a villain on the issue of race—perhaps his strongest suit in a contest that could hinge on African American voters. Her flawlessly executed attack on the sympathetic, ex-No. 2 to the nation’s first African American president tugged at voters’ heartstrings without sacrificing the emotional fortitude most Americans want to see in their president.

I observed the wreckage firsthand while on assignment in Iowa for the Washington Examiner. While most of my colleagues were in South Florida for the main event, I decided to hang out with a crowd of staunch Biden supporters at a debate watch party in suburban Des Moines that was organized by the Biden campaign. The Iowa caucuses will kick off the voting in the 2020 primary next February, and this group of likely voters knew they had just witnessed a massacre.

“I don’t think he looks well, and that kind of concerns me,” Carol Crandall, 74, a retired school teacher, told me after a two-hour broadcast that saw Biden looking every bit his age of 76 years old. About as charitable a defense that could be mustered for Biden, until then the undisputed, unchallenged front-runner for the Democratic presidential nomination, was offered by John Olsen, a 49-year-old Biden superfan who moonlights as a substitute teacher: “Kamala put Joe in an impossible situation.”

Imagine what Harris might be able to do against a real villain like Trump, some worried Republican insiders back in Washington were simultaneously telling me via text message. Hillary Clinton, unlikable, clunky, and corrupt, could never do that. “Kamala is a nightmare” for Republicans, one of them told me.





https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2019/07/gop-insiders-fear-kamala-harris

355Democrats Debate lineup - Page 15 Empty Re: Democrats Debate lineup 7/26/2019, 2:10 pm

bigdog



Well, they don't have to worry about her much, because since a big uptick right after the debates, she's back down to around 11% again, and pretty much always behind Elizabeth Warren. She and Liz will kill each other off in the early primaries by both coming in second or third to Biden, giving him the momentum. And Bernie will be cutting into whatever votes the two of them do get. He's not likely to drop out until close to the end.


Nobody "vivisects" anyone in 30 seconds of the first of numerous debates to come.
Biden's still on top.
And Kamala won't be able to use the busing issue with any effectiveness anymore. She's fired her load on that one and only made a small dent.  Biden has survived the "touchy feely" accusations and they didn't bring him down, he's survived Kamala's busing accusations and he's still far more popular among African American voters then she is, and he'll survive the new criminal justice accusations.  BTW, those point right back at your candidate, Ms Harris. She's been a tough prosecutor in her past and a lot of people don't like her for that.
Biden is getting good practice for the general and is dispensing with these issues with the Democratic electorate as he goes through the primaries. Bring 'em on, because there's nothing significantly bad enough in Joe Biden's past to bring him down.

356Democrats Debate lineup - Page 15 Empty Re: Democrats Debate lineup 7/26/2019, 2:14 pm

Telstar

Telstar

They look so good together.


Democrats Debate lineup - Page 15 Bidenj10

357Democrats Debate lineup - Page 15 Empty Re: Democrats Debate lineup 7/26/2019, 3:32 pm

RealLindaL



Telstar wrote:They look so good together.

They do, actually. But can they WORK together? Maybe so, maybe not. Could be an interesting combo.

358Democrats Debate lineup - Page 15 Empty Re: Democrats Debate lineup 7/26/2019, 4:35 pm

bigdog



It's fine with me if they did run together, but I have a feeling Ms Harris is not really far enough to the left to make some of the party happy. She's just trying to look that way.
And I know Joe Biden isn't.

It would definitely be a winning ticket.

359Democrats Debate lineup - Page 15 Empty Re: Democrats Debate lineup 7/26/2019, 4:51 pm

bigdog



Just watching MSNBC, and Rev Al made a very interesting point a couple of minutes ago. He said that both Corey Booker and Kamala Harris have opened the door to attacks on their records on crime now. Apparently, Corey Booker had some responsibility for a "stop and frisk" law about 5 years ago that is very unpopular with the African American community. He expects Biden to defend himself with that attack if Booker brings up the crime bill from 20 years go that he was involved with. Biden has said he is going to go on the attack during the next debate- he had wanted to get through without saying anything bad about the other candidates, but he has to defend himself.
If the stop and frisk bill is brought up, Booker will also get heat from Mayor Bill deBlasio because he opposed Booker over it when it came out.
So, Corey might need to be a little careful too. Those glass houses just aren't very strong.

360Democrats Debate lineup - Page 15 Empty Re: Democrats Debate lineup 7/29/2019, 4:57 pm

Sal

Sal

Kamala Harris released a new plan for healthcare today.

https://medium.com/@KamalaHarris/my-plan-for-medicare-for-all-7730370dd421

It took her a while to figure out how to iron out the kinks, but it looks to me like she pretty successfully threaded the needle with this plan.

Looks a lot like Germany's system which is a-ok by me.

361Democrats Debate lineup - Page 15 Empty Re: Democrats Debate lineup 7/29/2019, 7:29 pm

bigdog



Brand New Quinnipiac poll just out today:

Biden 33
Warren 15
Sanders 11
Harris 12
Butigeig 6

No one else, not even Booker who had hit at Biden very hard this week, has scored above a 2.

Looks like Debate One meant nothing at all.

362Democrats Debate lineup - Page 15 Empty Re: Democrats Debate lineup 7/29/2019, 10:09 pm

Sal

Sal

bigdog wrote:Brand New Quinnipiac poll just out today:

Biden 33
Warren 15
Sanders 11
Harris 12
Butigeig 6

No one else, not even Booker who had hit at Biden very hard this week, has scored above a 2.

Looks like Debate One meant nothing at all.

Yeah, this far out the debates mean little and the polls even less.

363Democrats Debate lineup - Page 15 Empty Re: Democrats Debate lineup 7/30/2019, 12:55 pm

othershoe1030

othershoe1030

It's interesting to look back on Obama's rankings during the primary fights in '08. Given that we need the overwhelming support of black voters, they didn't swing to Obama until after he won in the white state of Iowa. Even though they are supporting Biden now, I'm wondering if they might not switch to Harris if she does well there. There are so many moving parts to the race, not even including international events or the economy.

364Democrats Debate lineup - Page 15 Empty Re: Democrats Debate lineup 7/30/2019, 2:00 pm

Telstar

Telstar

othershoe1030 wrote:It's interesting to look back on Obama's rankings during the primary fights in '08. Given that we need the overwhelming support of black voters, they didn't swing to Obama until after he won in the white state of Iowa. Even though they are supporting Biden now, I'm wondering if they might not switch to Harris if she does well there. There are so many moving parts to the race, not even including international events or the economy.




It's just too early to lock in on any one candidate at this early stage. We all know we are going to support the eventual winner so that the cancer in our house is removed. There is a lot of time for the true favorite to rise to the top.

365Democrats Debate lineup - Page 15 Empty Re: Democrats Debate lineup 7/30/2019, 5:49 pm

RealLindaL



Telstar wrote:
It's just too early to lock in on any one candidate at this early stage. We all know we are going to support the eventual winner so that the cancer in our house is removed. There is a lot of time for the true favorite to rise to the top.

So true, Tel -- could be someone no one's banking on at all right now -- but it's fun to wonder.

366Democrats Debate lineup - Page 15 Empty Re: Democrats Debate lineup 7/30/2019, 6:19 pm

Telstar

Telstar

RealLindaL wrote:
Telstar wrote:
It's just too early to lock in on any one candidate at this early stage. We all know we are going to support the eventual winner so that the cancer in our house is removed. There is a lot of time for the true favorite to rise to the top.

So true, Tel -- could be someone no one's banking on at all right now -- but it's fun to wonder.  



You mean like Oprah?....LOL just kidding, for now. Won't be kidding if Kriminal Trump steals this one.

367Democrats Debate lineup - Page 15 Empty Re: Democrats Debate lineup 7/30/2019, 8:12 pm

bigdog



othershoe1030 wrote:It's interesting to look back on Obama's rankings during the primary fights in '08. Given that we need the overwhelming support of black voters, they didn't swing to Obama until after he won in the white state of Iowa. Even though they are supporting Biden now, I'm wondering if they might not switch to Harris if she does well there. There are so many moving parts to the race, not even including international events or the economy.


Right now, Biden and Elizabeth Warren are tied at about 23 in Iowa and Ms Harris is only at half that at around 12. I don't see her passing both of them in that race, and I'm sorry, but Kamala Harris is no Obama. The first time I heard Obama speak at one of the Democratic conventions, I told my husband that I had just heard the first African American President of the United States give a speech. I had NO DOUBT whatever that he would be president one day, because other than JFK, I'd never heard anyone speak like that in my lifetime.
He had the same unbelievably magical charisma that JFK had, and that's not something you can learn or cultivate, you just have to have it. I can see Elizabeth Warren winning in Iowa, just on the basis of her ideas, and maybe giving Biden a run for his money, though I still don't think she would win, but not Kamala Harris. And regardless of what the progressives think about Sleepy Joe, he has his own thing going that makes people like him. He'll never be JFK either, but he's a very likable person, and that's something Hillary just was not able to project.

368Democrats Debate lineup - Page 15 Empty Re: Democrats Debate lineup 7/30/2019, 9:52 pm

Sal

Sal

Winners and losers from tonight?

IMO ...

Winners; Warren, Sanders?? (I dunno, did he come across as feisty or grumpy old man ... I have a hard time judging these things).

Losers: Mayor Pete, Beto, Delaney, Hickenlooper

Who cares?; the rest of them

369Democrats Debate lineup - Page 15 Empty Re: Democrats Debate lineup 7/30/2019, 10:08 pm

Telstar

Telstar

Sal wrote:Winners and losers from tonight?

IMO ...

Winners; Warren, Sanders?? (I dunno, did he come across as feisty or grumpy old man ... I have a hard time judging these things).

Losers: Mayor Pete, Beto, Delaney, Hickenlooper

Who cares?;  the rest of them




I think Warren is making the biggest impact. Delaney is still annoying. I think the moderators are too quick to cut people off.

370Democrats Debate lineup - Page 15 Empty Re: Democrats Debate lineup 7/30/2019, 10:08 pm

bigdog



Sal, I've been taping the debate and came back into my office and guess what? It's still on, going strong.

How can you say who won when the debate still has another hour?

Oh yeah, that would be how you know how healthy Robert Mueller looked without watching the hearings.

Pretty cool super powers.

371Democrats Debate lineup - Page 15 Empty Re: Democrats Debate lineup 7/30/2019, 10:23 pm

bigdog



Elizabeth Warren just lost me, unless she's the only democrat left standing. She wants to promise that we would NEVER be the first to use a nuclear weapon, no matter what. That is a stupid and naïve viewpoint.
So, if all our intelligence sources told us that in twenty minutes the North Koreans were going to launch missiles against California, Elizabeth Warren would have tied our own hands by swearing not to launch first??????

She does NOT need to be POTUS.

I think this will be what the news media will latch onto and quote all week long from her debate performance. It's going to cost her mightily in the polls.

372Democrats Debate lineup - Page 15 Empty Re: Democrats Debate lineup 7/30/2019, 10:32 pm

Sal

Sal

bigdog wrote:
So, if all our intelligence sources told us that in twenty minutes the North Koreans were going to launch missiles against California, Elizabeth Warren would

That’s totally not what she said.

She was talking about preemptive war.

Remember Iraq?

I didn’t think so.

Dumbass.

373Democrats Debate lineup - Page 15 Empty Re: Democrats Debate lineup 7/30/2019, 10:42 pm

Telstar

Telstar

Nice finish from Warren. cheers

374Democrats Debate lineup - Page 15 Empty Re: Democrats Debate lineup 7/30/2019, 10:46 pm

bigdog



Hey, Dumbass, I not only remember Iraq, but I wrote lots of letters to my local paper opposing it. I was one of the 10 percent of Americans back then who opposed that war. I also remember that it wasn't a nuclear war, and has nothing to do with what she said.

I heard exactly what she said. She wants to promise that we won't be the first to start a nuclear war. She can't do that as President of the United States, because we might just HAVE to be the first to fire on the enemy. If our intel tells us they will be firing on us and there is no doubt about it, a president who did not take action first would be remiss in their duty as Commander in Chief.

Iraq has nothing to do with any of that.  There were UN Inspectors in Iraq who were telling us Iraq had no WMD's, and we chased them out of the country in order to attack. That was nothing but a revenge war that George W Bush knew we would fight as soon as he got into office, he was just waiting for an excuse. Since the Nuclear Age began, the world has only been safe from annihilation because of MAD, mutually assured destruction. Elizabeth Warren wants to give up our ability to be a threat?
I'm not so stupid that I don't know a nuclear war could very well destroy humanity, I don't underestimate it. But I'm not so naïve as to think we can beat our weapons into plowshares and everybody else will do the same thing.

375Democrats Debate lineup - Page 15 Empty Re: Democrats Debate lineup 7/31/2019, 12:04 am

bigdog



BTW, I just replayed that section of the tape. The question was to Ms Warren. It was "you have stated that your policy would be that the US would never use a nuclear weapon unless another nation had used one first. Now President Obama considered using that policy but he decided against it. Why should the US tie its own hands with that policy?"   (Exact Words)

Her Answer:Because it makes the world safer. The United States is not going to use nuclear weapons preemptively and we need to say so to the entire world."

Those were her exact words, transcribed from the video.

I guess if a burglar came into her house with a gun and she had one too, she'd wait on him to shoot at her before she would fire herself.
Not me. Oh, and not anybody else with even half a brain.

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