Trump Supports Transgender Ban In Military.

He looked so happy moterboarding his girlfriend drag queen mayor Rudy. LOL. White House spokesthing Sarah Huckleberry threatened to walk because they kept questioning her about it. I wonder how someone who takes great interest in the transgender community feels about this issue. Someone we all know on this forum.

Who cares? One more intentional distraction from real issues facing America. He is hoping there will be outrage about the same, and nobody will notice his new budget calls for almost a 40 billion dollar increase in the military budget. Not one headline about the same, but a transgender ban is an issue we need to be debating right now.

It was good enough for the last admin to put in place despite the same issues that were on the table then.

Tax dollars shouldn't be spent on that... period. Just another weak sauce Obama policy.

2seaoat wrote:  He is hoping there will be outrage about the same, and nobody will notice his new budget calls for almost a 40 billion dollar increase in the military budget.    

And drastic cuts to just about every other department.

And these incompetent boobs can't even do that right.

The Department of Health and Human Services on Monday afternoon accidentally posted President Trump's proposed budget for the agency.

Several reporters caught the document and questioned whether it was real before it was removed from the agency's website. The department's budget had not been expected until Tuesday, with the rest of Trump's full budget proposal.
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/hhs-accidentally-posts-trumps-proposed-budget/article/2623842

It included a $610 BILLION cut to Medicaid, by the way.

That's SIX HUNDRED AND TEN THOUSAND MILLION DOLLARS, by the way.

Think about that number.

But not to worry, the Republican buffoons in Congress will screw that up as well.

Pundits keep saying tonight that Trump likely tweeted the trans ban to appease his base conservatives who're upset with his trashing Sessions.   Could be, but I also wouldn't put it past Trump to've promised this appalling ban to one or more Senate cons in return for their promise to vote in favor of a repeal of Obamacare in any form whatsoever.  Trump is DESPERATE to quash the crowning legislative achievement of his far-more-popular predecessor.  He's a whining, envious five-year-old in adult clothing, and that's being kind.

To further his own agenda, what this president has done to the trans people now serving the country honorably --- who've created NO military unreadiness nor untoward incident, and whose total health care has cost no more than a pittance of the military's medical budget -- is beyond unforgivable.

How in the name of sanity can this hideous excuse for a presidency be allowed to continue?   Every person who still supports this man should be ashamed to the core.   I can't believe I live in the same country with people who actually still applaud him.  Are they f'ing kidding????

This is the first time I remember a president stating ingratitude for the service of military personnel.  When someone puts themselves in harm's way to protect America's liberty, demanding they give up their own is about as unfair as it gets.  I couldn't care less how a person wants to live their lives if they've got skills to protect America from its enemies.  I admit it's a bit weird to me, but weird is okay -- a lot of people do a lot of stuff I find odd (playing golf seems a weird activity to me) but if it makes them happy and they aren't hurting anyone, go for it, that's America.  If a person can do the job, the rest is none of my business.

I'm seeing conservatives display their ignorance, thinking the military is going to pay for people's sex change operations.  That's ridiculous.  All this "cost savings" Trump thinks is so important are hormone supplements... and those cost about a tenth of what the military spends on erectile dysfunction meds.  I'm not sure why the military  has a Viagra budget (naked bayonet charges?!), but if they're okay with spending $84 million on Viagra and Cialis, then $8 million for hormone maintenance is negligible.   If they want to have a discussion about not allowing the military to pay for any of that and service members paying for their own, then that's a different topic... but pretending he's kicking out skilled personnel to "save money" is insultingly stupid horseshit.   Trump is just doing this because even the bigoted wing of his support is starting to get fed up with him, and he's trying to get them to love him again.

It's the overall cost to the military that is the issue here. Costs
aren't factored in to just the current fiscal liability. There is a future liability as well.

From a post I saw elsewhere-



Nobody has a "right" to serve in the Military. Nobody.

What makes people think the Military is an equal opportunity employer? Very far from it.

The Military uses prejudice regularly and consistently to deny citizens from joining for being too old or too young, too fat or too skinny, too tall or too short.

Citizens are denied for having flat feet, or for missing or additional fingers. Poor eyesight will disqualify you, as well as bad teeth. Malnourished? Drug addiction? Bad back? Criminal history? Low IQ? Anxiety? Phobias? Hearing damage? Six arms? Hear voices in your head? Self-identify as a Unicorn?

Need a special access ramp for your wheelchair? Can't run the required course in the required time? Can't do the required number of pushups?

Not really a "morning person" and refuse to get out of bed before noon?
All can be reasons for denial.

The Military has one job. War. Anything else is a distraction and a liability.
Did someone just scream "That isn't Fair"? War is VERY unfair, there are no exceptions made for being special or challenged or socially wonderful.

YOU change yourself to meet Military standards. Not the other way around.
I say again: You don't change the Military... you must change yourself.
The Military doesn't need to accommodate anyone with special issues. The Military needs to Win Wars.

If any of your personal issues are a liability that detract from readiness or lethality... Thank you for applying and good luck in future endeavors. Who's next in line?

I wonder if they have rules or issues about transgender teachers at high school.

The truth is that without the citizen's draft and the creation of a mercenary military, the men volunteering have erectile dysfunction. The folks who have a soft time of it are costing the military millions of dollars for erectile drugs, which of course lead to depression and the high number of suicides. In fact the cost of erectile drugs in the military is many many times what any cost of transgender soldiers. So I recommend immediately that we cut the budget of the military over the next decade by 25%, reestablish the citizens draft, and have congress have uncle sam on recruiting posters say: " Make America's military hard again, draft real men"

http://mashable.com/2017/07/26/trump-transgender-military-ban-viagra-costs-more/#6TINZ6.u1iq2

No Seaoat, what will cost the military more is the counseling, pre-op/post-op and the surgery involved for those wanting the military to pay for their gender reassignment surgery.  The military has more important things to spend its money on aside from someone's gender issues. Also, transgender people have a higher suicide rate than even the 22 per day of veterans committing suicide.

Here is a military veteran and former SEAL's comment-

https://sofrep.com/86508/military-transgender-ban-let-them-serve-but-no-transition-surgery/

NPAatall wrote:It's the overall cost to the military that is the issue here.  Costs
aren't factored in to just the current fiscal liability. There is a future liability as well.

From a post I saw elsewhere-



Nobody has a "right" to serve in the Military. Nobody.

What makes people think the Military is an equal opportunity employer? Very far from it.

The Military uses prejudice regularly and consistently to deny citizens from joining for being too old or too young, too fat or too skinny, too tall or too short.

Citizens are denied for having flat feet, or for missing or additional fingers. Poor eyesight will disqualify you, as well as bad teeth. Malnourished? Drug addiction? Bad back? Criminal history? Low IQ? Anxiety? Phobias? Hearing damage? Six arms? Hear voices in your head? Self-identify as a Unicorn?

Need a special access ramp for your wheelchair? Can't run the required course in the required time? Can't do the required number of pushups?

Not really a "morning person" and refuse to get out of bed before noon?
All can be reasons for denial.

The Military has one job. War. Anything else is a distraction and a liability.
Did someone just scream "That isn't Fair"? War is VERY unfair, there are no exceptions made for being special or challenged or socially wonderful.

YOU change yourself to meet Military standards. Not the other way around.
I say again: You don't change the Military... you must change yourself.
The Military doesn't need to accommodate anyone with special issues. The Military needs to Win Wars.

If any of your personal issues are a liability that detract from readiness or lethality... Thank you for applying and good luck in future endeavors. Who's next in line?

Those things will disqualify you from carrying a rifle in the field (which doesn't necessarily apply to transgender people, anyway - a member of Seal Team Six is transgnder and that's about as elite as it gets) but there are a lot of jobs in the military that won't require you to get through an obstacle course.  There are lots of cyber-warfare jobs, drone pilots, translators, clerks, etc.  Not every mode of military service is in a combat capacity.  

And if anyone wanting a combat role can't make it through the training, they get washed out.   If they can and meet the other requirements, then they're in.

NPAatall wrote:No Seaoat, what will cost the military more is the counseling, pre-op/post-op and the surgery involved for those wanting the military to pay for their gender reassignment surgery.  The military has more important things to spend its money on aside from someone's gender issues. Also, transgender people have a higher suicide rate than even the 22 per day of veterans committing suicide.

Here is a military veteran and former SEAL's comment-

https://sofrep.com/86508/military-transgender-ban-let-them-serve-but-no-transition-surgery/

Again, the military isn't paying for gender reassignment surgery, just hormone maintenance. A lot of trans people don't go through with the full surgery, anyway.

The simple fact is that our all volunteer military has a problem getting it up and those drugs cost many fold more than transgender folks in the military and their hormone needs. Thankfully with a military which cannot get it up, we are not having the reports of innocents in other nations being raped. So having impotent soldiers does have its advantages in the savings on salt peter when real men joined the military. In today's mercenary military a softie can push a button in Maryland and kill 30 innocent children, get a big mac for lunch, and stop and get some free viagra and a copy of soldier magazine and go home and whack off. Those transgenders just are going to mess the whole thing up.

Make America's military hard again, draft real men"

Very clever and amusing Mr. Oats . . . . your point regarding the taxpayer expense for our "heroes" receiving pecker pills is duly noted sir!

zsomething wrote:

NPAatall wrote:It's the overall cost to the military that is the issue here.  Costs
aren't factored in to just the current fiscal liability. There is a future liability as well.

From a post I saw elsewhere-



Nobody has a "right" to serve in the Military. Nobody.

What makes people think the Military is an equal opportunity employer? Very far from it.

The Military uses prejudice regularly and consistently to deny citizens from joining for being too old or too young, too fat or too skinny, too tall or too short.

Citizens are denied for having flat feet, or for missing or additional fingers. Poor eyesight will disqualify you, as well as bad teeth. Malnourished? Drug addiction? Bad back? Criminal history? Low IQ? Anxiety? Phobias? Hearing damage? Six arms? Hear voices in your head? Self-identify as a Unicorn?

Need a special access ramp for your wheelchair? Can't run the required course in the required time? Can't do the required number of pushups?

Not really a "morning person" and refuse to get out of bed before noon?
All can be reasons for denial.

The Military has one job. War. Anything else is a distraction and a liability.
Did someone just scream "That isn't Fair"? War is VERY unfair, there are no exceptions made for being special or challenged or socially wonderful.

YOU change yourself to meet Military standards. Not the other way around.
I say again: You don't change the Military... you must change yourself.
The Military doesn't need to accommodate anyone with special issues. The Military needs to Win Wars.

If any of your personal issues are a liability that detract from readiness or lethality... Thank you for applying and good luck in future endeavors. Who's next in line?

Those things will disqualify you from carrying a rifle in the field (which doesn't necessarily apply to transgender people, anyway - a member of Seal Team Six is transgnder and that's about as elite as it gets) but there are a lot of jobs in the military that won't require you to get through an obstacle course.  There are lots of cyber-warfare jobs, drone pilots, translators, clerks, etc.  Not every mode of military service is in a combat capacity.  

And if anyone wanting a combat role can't make it through the training, they get washed out.   If they can and meet the other requirements, then they're in.

The SEAL TEAM SIX member was not doing his transgender stuff while being an operator.

I can't believe you yokels fell for this shit!

Can you say MISS DUH RECK SHUN?

NPAatall wrote:

The SEAL TEAM SIX member was not doing his transgender stuff while being an operator.

So? Same person. He was capable of the job then, and she'd be capable of the job now.

It just appears to me that the mercenary military has a lot of wannabee pitchers who once they are in the military determine that maybe they can better serve as catchers. The baseball game is still played.

PkrBum wrote:Tax dollars shouldn't be spent on that... period. Just another weak sauce Obama policy.

40 million dollars on boner pills is okay?

Trump’s Transgender Ban Is The Act Of A Third World Despot And Total Nonsense. By Jim Write "Stonekettle"

This morning President Trump announced that transgender individuals would no longer be allowed to serve in the US Armed Forces.
No warning.

No legislative process.

No debate. No discussion. Just three tweets.
After consultation with my Generals and military experts, please be advised that the United States Government will not accept or allow Transgender individuals to serve in any capacity in the U.S. Military. Our military must be focused on decisive and overwhelming victory and cannot be burdened with the tremendous medical costs and disruption that transgender in the military would entail. Thank you

Consultation with “my generals”

My generals.

“Focused on decisive and overwhelming victory”

Decisive and overwhelming victory.

Leaving aside for the moment this idiotic backwards decision, the wording of this official comment is some despot level rhetoric. My Generals. Decisive and overwhelming victory. That’s the kind of thing a megalomaniac dictator says right before he starts talking about himself in the Third Person.
Well, there you go.

Who are these generals?

Who are these supposed “military experts?”

Don’t we have a right to know?

Doesn’t the military have a right to know?



After all, the Pentagon this morning refused to answer any questions, claimed no knowledge of the decision, and referred all questions to the White House. No one in command of the military had any knowledge of this decision. The Secretary of Defense is traveling and out of communication. Congress wasn’t consulted. The last Executive Order signed by Trump was on July 21st, regarding Strengthening Manufacturing and Industrial Base and Supply Chain Resiliency, nothing to do with banning trans people from serving in the US military.

Right now, those charged with implementing this policy have no direction at all, none, other than a couple of tweets.
Think about how utterly bizarre that is.

Think about all the hundreds of thousands of people this affects, whether it be directly because they are transgender or indirectly because they are the military and civilian personnel charged with implementing policy, or the officers charged with overseeing it, or the JAGs charged with military law, or the personnel managers, the accountants. What about the benefits people at Veterans Affairs? Because even if you throw them out, trans veterans are still veterans, they’re still entitled to benefits – unless they’re not. How do you know without more direction than a couple of tweets? Somebody must figure out the details. When does this go into effect? Now? Later? Is there a date?
These generals, these experts, if they are not at the Pentagon, where are they? Who are they? What are their qualifications? What is their experience? Because, these generals, these experts, where is their analysis? Where is their plan for implementation? Where is the legislation? The public debate? Where is the signed law? Where are the Executive Orders? Where is the Secretary of Defense? Where is the Secretary of Veterans Affairs? And the Attorney General? What’s his plan for the inevitable legal challenge before the Supreme Court?

I mean, this is a decision that backtracks on social progress.

This is a decision that appears to be a solution in search of a problem.

This is a decision that affects society, government, the military, and has wide ranging aspects that involve all of us as a nation.

Given conservatives’ track record, given Republicans’ unending phobia and fixation on all things LGBT, given the Right’s open and unabashed religion-fueled agenda of bigotry and intolerance, are we not forced to suspect that this decision was less about military readiness and more about discrimination?

So, don’t we have a right to know who these generals are and what they said?
Don’t we have a right to challenge that position? To demand proof? To review the evidence? To petition the government for redress of wrongs?

Don’t we have a right, a duty, to know who these “military experts” are? What is their expertise? What is their experience? What is their position in government, in the military, in society? What do they base their advice on? Can they provide actual evidence and data to back up their claims? When did they last serve? For how long? In what capacity?

Who are these people?

Because Trump has a habit of picking advisers who are completely and utterly unqualified in their supposed areas of expertise.

So, who the hell are these people?

It seems to me that these are the questions we should be asking.

It seems to me that these are the questions the press should be asking.

Because from this series of tweets – once again official statements in accordance with Presidential decree – it appears cost is the primary factor in Trump’s decision.

Cost.

Whoever it was Trump consulted with, cost seems to be their primary concern
“Tremendous medical costs.”

Trump offers no reference to any study supporting his statement.

Trump hasn’t produced these so-called experts to explain this “tremendous medical costs and disruption that transgender in the military would cause
In fact, the primary study of transgender in the military is a Rand Corporation assessment entitled “Assessing the Implications of Allowing Transgender Personnel to Serve Openly” which was commissioned by the military and says exactly the opposite. That study, the official study used by the military, says the impact and costs of allowing transgender individuals to serve openly in the military are low and would likely have no impact on readiness or budget.

Once again, the Commander in Chief made a statement of unsupported right-wing rhetoric. He references some shadowy unnamed “experts” and then proceeds to a snap decision via social media that impacts tens of thousands of people without any thought to the consequences or the fallout whatsoever.

Again, this is creationism in action. This is the same kind of faulty reasoning and unicorn logic creationists use.

Again, this is modern Republicanism on display, a political ideology that equates all questions to cost, because with neo-conservatism everything is tainted by the Prosperity Gospel, everything is about money. Everything. Even when it’s not really about money, money is always the first justification conservatives trot out. As if pretending it was about money instead of bigotry is somehow acceptable, as if anyone is fooled.

A few weeks ago, I wrote a long piece on Republican efforts to repeal and replace The Affordable Healthcare Act, i.e. Obamacare.

As research, I asked my social media audience, “Is healthcare a basic human right?”Overwhelmingly liberals and progressives agreed that it was. But, overwhelmingly, conservatives, those who touted their Christianity in their profiles like a badge of honor, said that it wasn’t. Conservatives said that healthcare couldn’t be a right specifically because it would cost too much.

Think about that.

Think about the basis of rights being money.

As I noted in that essay, when you believe rights are the entitlement of only those who can afford them, it’s not long before you start thinking that those who can’t afford rights are property – or garbage.

But here’s the funny thing: Let’s say for argument’s sake, cost really was a factor with transgender service personnel. It’s not, but let’s run with that for a minute.

What other conditions are costly?

No no. Don’t look away. Don’t change the subject or try to move the goalposts. If cost is the factor, shouldn’t our military consist of only unencumbered healthy individuals? The cheapest soldiers we can find? Literally the most bang for the buck?
Shouldn’t any individual who develops poor eyesight, damaged hearing, broken bones, bullet holes, cancer, or a family be immediately discharged? I mean…

What?

Oh, the family thing. Right. Families are costly. Didn’t you know?

Food, clothing, medical care, housing, pay and benefits and allowances, moving them around the world, security, education. Military families are expensive. Hugely expensive.

And there is one hell of a lot more military families than there are transgender service personal.

So, if it’s about cost, shouldn’t we disallow any married person from serving?

If cost is the factor, tremendous costs, then why not a military made up of just single personnel? Don’t laugh, a while back there was a certain general who tried to do exactly that. 1993, The Commandant of the Marine Corps General Carl Mundy Jr ordered a ban on enlisted married people. That’s right. Mundy decreed that the Corps would no longer accept married recruits because it was too expensive. Too expensive for the Corps, too expensive for junior Marines who couldn’t afford either the cost of a family or the distraction.

His order was overridden by Defense Secretary Les Aspin within hours of being issued, but there it is. There’s the precedent.
If transgender people cost too much, too much that the military can’t achieve victory, then shouldn’t we get rid of military families who cost orders of magnitude more? Shouldn’t we immediately discharge any service member who costs over a certain amount as determined by a baseline of young straight males in prime health?

Hell, the military spends five times more on Viagra than on transgender services.

That’s my question, that one right there: why just transgender?

If cost is the factor, then why just transgender?

Unless Trump was once again lying about his motivations and too cowardly to say what he and his “experts” really mean.

A transgender service member can push a drone button in Maryland and kill 30 innocent civilians, yet we want to worry about the cost of her hormone pills and ignore the cost of boner pills for our new all volunteer mercenary military? I would rather start asking questions about the quarter of a billion dollars for military air shows, asking questions about military contractor cost over runs which alone could fund medicare for all, and asking questions why are we putting all our eggs into high profit high tech weapons systems which can be breached by our enemies. We need to stop the insanity.

polecat wrote:

PkrBum wrote:Tax dollars shouldn't be spent on that... period. Just another weak sauce Obama policy.

40 million dollars on boner pills is okay?

I didn't say that... of course. I've said over and over that the military should be a quarter of its size.

Why do you do that?

Simply unable to defend trannies joining the military just to get reassignment surgery?

They are either fit to serve at entrance... as is... or they aren't. Period. Quit the namby pamby bs.

polecat wrote:Trump’s Transgender Ban Is The Act Of A Third World Despot And Total Nonsense. By Jim Write "Stonekettle"

This morning President Trump announced that transgender individuals would no longer be allowed to serve in the US Armed Forces.

...

His order was overridden by Defense Secretary Les Aspin within hours of being issued, but there it is. There’s the precedent.

One good thing about this is that this kind of shit is gradually eroding his support with Republican Congressmenpersons.

We're only six months into this experiment in lunacy and already influential Republicans are starting to publicly veer away from him. Imagine what it's going to be like by next year. There was a bunch of them pretty quickly after this came out.

All the Representatives and the Senators up for re-election in 2018 are paying attention to how this stuff is being perceived.

The mills of the gods grind slowly blah, blah, blah...