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President Pinnochio
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othershoe1030
2seaoat
Telstar
RealLindaL
Markle
Vikingwoman
10 posters
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3 Re: President Pinnochio 12/30/2016, 3:07 am
RealLindaL
I don't believe the "keep your plan" statement was a purposeful untruth by Obama and neither, I have to believe, does just about anyone else who uses logic and common sense. Had he known this was untrue, he'd have been a damned fool (which he most definitely isn't) to've told such a bald-faced lie in front of the American public -- one that was 100% guaranteed to backfire on his signature accomplishment.
That said, if the more likely scenario is that the president didn't fully understand all the implications of the extremely complex plan -- the rules for which, IIRC, had not even been developed in full at the time -- then that's to his discredit; he shouldn't have spoken out of school if he wasn't 100% versed in all the in's and out's, and of course this point about keeping one's plan and doctors was a critically important one to many if not most people. He may've been misled by others, but that's still no excuse. This was a major boo-boo, and all presidents make them.
Still, unlike our president-elect, Obama is not a naturally deceptive person for whom lies flow easily off his tongue on matters great and small. Believe what you will, but I think for a person to continue to call this serious mistake a "lie" lessens the impact of the word, and unfairly characterizes a truly decent human being. A politician, yes, but a man whose decency and honesty I'd stack up against Trump any day of the week and thrice on Sunday.
And before anyone accuses me of just posting my own opinion -- yes, that's exactly what it is, but I would conversely challenge anyone to prove that purposeful deception was in Obama's mind and heart when he made the statement. You can't.
That said, if the more likely scenario is that the president didn't fully understand all the implications of the extremely complex plan -- the rules for which, IIRC, had not even been developed in full at the time -- then that's to his discredit; he shouldn't have spoken out of school if he wasn't 100% versed in all the in's and out's, and of course this point about keeping one's plan and doctors was a critically important one to many if not most people. He may've been misled by others, but that's still no excuse. This was a major boo-boo, and all presidents make them.
Still, unlike our president-elect, Obama is not a naturally deceptive person for whom lies flow easily off his tongue on matters great and small. Believe what you will, but I think for a person to continue to call this serious mistake a "lie" lessens the impact of the word, and unfairly characterizes a truly decent human being. A politician, yes, but a man whose decency and honesty I'd stack up against Trump any day of the week and thrice on Sunday.
And before anyone accuses me of just posting my own opinion -- yes, that's exactly what it is, but I would conversely challenge anyone to prove that purposeful deception was in Obama's mind and heart when he made the statement. You can't.
4 Re: President Pinnochio 12/30/2016, 4:08 am
Markle
RealLindaL wrote:I don't believe the "keep your plan" statement was a purposeful untruth by Obama and neither, I have to believe, does just about anyone else who uses logic and common sense. Had he known this was untrue, he'd have been a damned fool (which he most definitely isn't) to've told such a bald-faced lie in front of the American public -- one that was 100% guaranteed to backfire on his signature accomplishment.
That said, if the more likely scenario is that the president didn't fully understand all the implications of the extremely complex plan -- the rules for which, IIRC, had not even been developed in full at the time -- then that's to his discredit; he shouldn't have spoken out of school if he wasn't 100% versed in all the in's and out's, and of course this point about keeping one's plan and doctors was a critically important one to many if not most people. He may've been misled by others, but that's still no excuse. This was a major boo-boo, and all presidents make them.
Still, unlike our president-elect, Obama is not a naturally deceptive person for whom lies flow easily off his tongue on matters great and small. Believe what you will, but I think for a person to continue to call this serious mistake a "lie" lessens the impact of the word, and unfairly characterizes a truly decent human being. A politician, yes, but a man whose decency and honesty I'd stack up against Trump any day of the week and thrice on Sunday.
And before anyone accuses me of just posting my own opinion -- yes, that's exactly what it is, but I would conversely challenge anyone to prove that purposeful deception was in Obama's mind and heart when he made the statement. You can't.
6 Re: President Pinnochio 12/30/2016, 1:29 pm
RealLindaL
Markle wrote:RealLindaL wrote:I don't believe the "keep your plan" statement was a purposeful untruth by Obama and neither, I have to believe, does just about anyone else who uses logic and common sense. Had he known this was untrue, he'd have been a damned fool (which he most definitely isn't) to've told such a bald-faced lie in front of the American public -- one that was 100% guaranteed to backfire on his signature accomplishment.
That said, if the more likely scenario is that the president didn't fully understand all the implications of the extremely complex plan -- the rules for which, IIRC, had not even been developed in full at the time -- then that's to his discredit; he shouldn't have spoken out of school if he wasn't 100% versed in all the in's and out's, and of course this point about keeping one's plan and doctors was a critically important one to many if not most people. He may've been misled by others, but that's still no excuse. This was a major boo-boo, and all presidents make them.
Still, unlike our president-elect, Obama is not a naturally deceptive person for whom lies flow easily off his tongue on matters great and small. Believe what you will, but I think for a person to continue to call this serious mistake a "lie" lessens the impact of the word, and unfairly characterizes a truly decent human being. A politician, yes, but a man whose decency and honesty I'd stack up against Trump any day of the week and thrice on Sunday.
And before anyone accuses me of just posting my own opinion -- yes, that's exactly what it is, but I would conversely challenge anyone to prove that purposeful deception was in Obama's mind and heart when he made the statement. You can't.
I REPEAT: I would challenge anyone to prove that purposeful deception was in Obama's mind and heart when he made the statement. You can't.
7 Re: President Pinnochio 12/30/2016, 1:52 pm
2seaoat
The President did not lie. He believed the ACA would in fact allow folks to keep their plans which most did, but as Bob fully informed us there were plans which did NOT meet the requirements of the ACA. So in fact folks who already had terrible coverage could not keep their chit policies.......where is the damage? So this great lie which our forum spammer references was really more of a question of non compliant existing policies which Bob fully informed us were basically a rip off and worthless.
8 Re: President Pinnochio 12/30/2016, 2:22 pm
othershoe1030
RealLindaL wrote:I don't believe the "keep your plan" statement was a purposeful untruth by Obama and neither, I have to believe, does just about anyone else who uses logic and common sense. Had he known this was untrue, he'd have been a damned fool (which he most definitely isn't) to've told such a bald-faced lie in front of the American public -- one that was 100% guaranteed to backfire on his signature accomplishment.
That said, if the more likely scenario is that the president didn't fully understand all the implications of the extremely complex plan -- the rules for which, IIRC, had not even been developed in full at the time -- then that's to his discredit; he shouldn't have spoken out of school if he wasn't 100% versed in all the in's and out's, and of course this point about keeping one's plan and doctors was a critically important one to many if not most people. He may've been misled by others, but that's still no excuse. This was a major boo-boo, and all presidents make them.
Still, unlike our president-elect, Obama is not a naturally deceptive person for whom lies flow easily off his tongue on matters great and small. Believe what you will, but I think for a person to continue to call this serious mistake a "lie" lessens the impact of the word, and unfairly characterizes a truly decent human being. A politician, yes, but a man whose decency and honesty I'd stack up against Trump any day of the week and thrice on Sunday.
And before anyone accuses me of just posting my own opinion -- yes, that's exactly what it is, but I would conversely challenge anyone to prove that purposeful deception was in Obama's mind and heart when he made the statement. You can't.
Excellent! I also "second" SeaO's comments about why some people were not allowed to keep their policies. The reports I heard reflect his comments about existing policies that charged too much and paid out too little. It is hard to defend the right of people to keep that sort of coverage when there is something better to be had, unless you are just in favor of giving the insurance companies more profit.
9 Re: President Pinnochio 12/30/2016, 6:52 pm
Guest
Guest
RealLindaL wrote:I don't believe the "keep your plan" statement was a purposeful untruth by Obama and neither, I have to believe, does just about anyone else who uses logic and common sense. Had he known this was untrue, he'd have been a damned fool (which he most definitely isn't) to've told such a bald-faced lie in front of the American public -- one that was 100% guaranteed to backfire on his signature accomplishment.
That said, if the more likely scenario is that the president didn't fully understand all the implications of the extremely complex plan -- the rules for which, IIRC, had not even been developed in full at the time -- then that's to his discredit; he shouldn't have spoken out of school if he wasn't 100% versed in all the in's and out's, and of course this point about keeping one's plan and doctors was a critically important one to many if not most people. He may've been misled by others, but that's still no excuse. This was a major boo-boo, and all presidents make them.
Still, unlike our president-elect, Obama is not a naturally deceptive person for whom lies flow easily off his tongue on matters great and small. Believe what you will, but I think for a person to continue to call this serious mistake a "lie" lessens the impact of the word, and unfairly characterizes a truly decent human being. A politician, yes, but a man whose decency and honesty I'd stack up against Trump any day of the week and thrice on Sunday.
And before anyone accuses me of just posting my own opinion -- yes, that's exactly what it is, but I would conversely challenge anyone to prove that purposeful deception was in Obama's mind and heart when he made the statement. You can't.
Despite being elected twice due to his pigmentation, he was and is and will always only be a community organizer at best. He lied out and out to the American public on so many things to include the ACA. If he didn't know or understand the law 1) he is the most ignorant POTUS ever and more IGNORANT Harvard Law School grad ever or 2) he lied and didn't care as it would never affect him or his family and his goal has been wealth redistribution all along.
10 Re: President Pinnochio 12/30/2016, 6:55 pm
Guest
Guest
2seaoat wrote:The President did not lie. He believed the ACA would in fact allow folks to keep their plans which most did, but as Bob fully informed us there were plans which did NOT meet the requirements of the ACA. So in fact folks who already had terrible coverage could not keep their chit policies.......where is the damage? So this great lie which our forum spammer references was really more of a question of non compliant existing policies which Bob fully informed us were basically a rip off and worthless.
HE lied...plain and simple. He should have taken the time to read the plan, but he was in a hurry to create his legacy. He lied about his red lines in Syria, he lied about not sending troops back to Iraq, he lied about what started Benghazi and he's lying now about the election being tainted by Russia. If anything, Russia finally forced the DNC to show the transparency they have been talking about the last eight years. If his lips are moving, he is lying.
11 Re: President Pinnochio 12/30/2016, 7:11 pm
RealLindaL
Tellthetruth wrote:If his lips are moving, he is lying.
Thank you for the perfect description of your hero, the serial liar Donald Trump.
12 Re: President Pinnochio 12/30/2016, 9:03 pm
Vikingwoman
I think it was the LA Times that did an article on Trump saying we have a President that is unprecedented in the lying. I'm not sure we'll ever see a President who lied as much as Trump but then again we may see lying as an accepted norm after this.
13 Re: President Pinnochio 12/30/2016, 10:22 pm
Markle
Vikingwoman wrote:I think it was the LA Times that did an article on Trump saying we have a President that is unprecedented in the lying. I'm not sure we'll ever see a President who lied as much as Trump but then again we may see lying as an accepted norm after this.
The LA TIMES!
14 Re: President Pinnochio 12/30/2016, 10:40 pm
Markle
othershoe1030 wrote:RealLindaL wrote:I don't believe the "keep your plan" statement was a purposeful untruth by Obama and neither, I have to believe, does just about anyone else who uses logic and common sense. Had he known this was untrue, he'd have been a damned fool (which he most definitely isn't) to've told such a bald-faced lie in front of the American public -- one that was 100% guaranteed to backfire on his signature accomplishment.
That said, if the more likely scenario is that the president didn't fully understand all the implications of the extremely complex plan -- the rules for which, IIRC, had not even been developed in full at the time -- then that's to his discredit; he shouldn't have spoken out of school if he wasn't 100% versed in all the in's and out's, and of course this point about keeping one's plan and doctors was a critically important one to many if not most people. He may've been misled by others, but that's still no excuse. This was a major boo-boo, and all presidents make them.
Still, unlike our president-elect, Obama is not a naturally deceptive person for whom lies flow easily off his tongue on matters great and small. Believe what you will, but I think for a person to continue to call this serious mistake a "lie" lessens the impact of the word, and unfairly characterizes a truly decent human being. A politician, yes, but a man whose decency and honesty I'd stack up against Trump any day of the week and thrice on Sunday.
And before anyone accuses me of just posting my own opinion -- yes, that's exactly what it is, but I would conversely challenge anyone to prove that purposeful deception was in Obama's mind and heart when he made the statement. You can't.
I also "second" SeaO's comments about why some people were not allowed to keep their policies. The reports I heard reflect his comments about existing policies that charged too much and paid out too little. It is hard to defend the right of people to keep that sort of coverage when there is something better to be had, unless you are just in favor of giving the insurance companies more profit.
Your numerous attempts of RATIONALIZING the massive lies from Petulant President Barack Hussein Obama are futile.
The policies eliminated by Obamacare were ones the people could afford and covered what THEY WANTED to be COVERED. Not what President Obama demanded they cover.
What do you have to say about the millions of policies victims are forced to buy with outrageous premiums and thousands in deductibles rendering the policies useless?
15 Re: President Pinnochio 12/30/2016, 10:44 pm
2seaoat
He should have taken the time to read the plan,
Reading the plan was not his problem, rather understanding how many folks had garbage policies like Bob complained about which were not in compliance. If you can show me any evidence that the President or even the staff had the capability to read every sub par insurance policy in America and then announce that 8% of Americans will not be able to keep policies which were substandard, and with that knowledge he lied. At some point somebody has to engage their brain and understand how bone chilling stupid the propaganda has been. The President did not lie and not one scintilla of proof of the same has been presented. Was the president wrong on understanding how many sub par policies were out there. Yes, he was wrong.
Reading the plan was not his problem, rather understanding how many folks had garbage policies like Bob complained about which were not in compliance. If you can show me any evidence that the President or even the staff had the capability to read every sub par insurance policy in America and then announce that 8% of Americans will not be able to keep policies which were substandard, and with that knowledge he lied. At some point somebody has to engage their brain and understand how bone chilling stupid the propaganda has been. The President did not lie and not one scintilla of proof of the same has been presented. Was the president wrong on understanding how many sub par policies were out there. Yes, he was wrong.
16 Re: President Pinnochio 12/30/2016, 10:46 pm
Sal
Tellthetruth wrote:
Despite being elected twice due to his pigmentation,
Here is a "man" who grew up in the United States, lived through the Obama presidency, and just witnesses the Trump campaign, and he believes that Obama was elected "due to his pigmentation", rather than DESPITE his pigmentation.
This is a brand of stupid that cannot be fixed.
17 Re: President Pinnochio 12/30/2016, 10:50 pm
RealLindaL
Sal wrote:Tellthetruth wrote:
Despite being elected twice due to his pigmentation,
Here is a "man" who grew up in the United States, lived through the Obama presidency, and just witnesses the Trump campaign, and he believes that Obama was elected "due to his pigmentation", rather than DESPITE his pigmentation.
This is a brand of stupid that cannot be fixed.
Hopelessly un-fixable for sure -- agreed.
18 Re: President Pinnochio 12/30/2016, 10:51 pm
Guest
Guest
He just wanted to use the dem legislative advantage to shove through an entitlement... in the midst of an economic downturn I might add. It was selfish and shortsighted. Nearly anything would've been smarter... including the big infrastructure plans they kept saying they wanted. It was ideological irresponsibility.
19 Re: President Pinnochio 12/30/2016, 10:58 pm
2seaoat
Your numerous attempts of RATIONALIZING the massive lies from Petulant President Barack Hussein Obama are futile.
There were no massive lies. It did what was expected, and a subpar insurance policy which is not allowed would require somebody reading every policy in America and then knowing that some of those policies would not be allowed. I think Bob's words in this regard were true, and had he had compliant insurance which would have given him the freedom for full treatment without digging in his pocket for 20k on that one procedure.
Now the fun begins, If President Obama was such a liar and deceiver, then America will celebrate when the promised elimination of the ACA is achieved on the first day the President takes office. Too funny.......just hilarious how the folks who were saying the President lied when he did not, are now lying through their teeth, just like they did when they said the President had knowledge of every sub par policy in America an knowingly lied......I actually cannot wait to Feb. 1st.......it is going to be a hoot. 20 million insured when we were told that they never would insure six million......and the lies keep coming......sometimes I think it is just an intelligence thing.
There were no massive lies. It did what was expected, and a subpar insurance policy which is not allowed would require somebody reading every policy in America and then knowing that some of those policies would not be allowed. I think Bob's words in this regard were true, and had he had compliant insurance which would have given him the freedom for full treatment without digging in his pocket for 20k on that one procedure.
Now the fun begins, If President Obama was such a liar and deceiver, then America will celebrate when the promised elimination of the ACA is achieved on the first day the President takes office. Too funny.......just hilarious how the folks who were saying the President lied when he did not, are now lying through their teeth, just like they did when they said the President had knowledge of every sub par policy in America an knowingly lied......I actually cannot wait to Feb. 1st.......it is going to be a hoot. 20 million insured when we were told that they never would insure six million......and the lies keep coming......sometimes I think it is just an intelligence thing.
20 Re: President Pinnochio 12/30/2016, 11:05 pm
2seaoat
He just wanted to use the dem legislative advantage to shove through an entitlement... in the midst of an economic downturn I might add. It was selfish and shortsighted. Nearly anything would've been smarter... including the big infrastructure plans they kept saying they wanted. It was ideological irresponsibility.
Well we have heard for eight years your opinion how horrible the ACA was, and we were promised that President Trump would eliminate the same on the first day of his office along with executive orders President Obama signed. So the proof will be in the pudding. Tell me how bad it was, and how it was shoved as an entitlement......the folks who claimed the same now have to tell the truth and act to eliminate the entire ACA, and replace it with this promised UTOPIA of something better. Pure doublespeak. The truth was that the ACA was a remarkable accomplishment of complex legislation which will NEVER be repealed in its entirety because when you scrape away the propaganda and the doublespeak, it was and remains a huge success. 20 million when for years thread after thread we were told it would never insure six million.
Well we have heard for eight years your opinion how horrible the ACA was, and we were promised that President Trump would eliminate the same on the first day of his office along with executive orders President Obama signed. So the proof will be in the pudding. Tell me how bad it was, and how it was shoved as an entitlement......the folks who claimed the same now have to tell the truth and act to eliminate the entire ACA, and replace it with this promised UTOPIA of something better. Pure doublespeak. The truth was that the ACA was a remarkable accomplishment of complex legislation which will NEVER be repealed in its entirety because when you scrape away the propaganda and the doublespeak, it was and remains a huge success. 20 million when for years thread after thread we were told it would never insure six million.
21 Re: President Pinnochio 12/30/2016, 11:09 pm
Guest
Guest
It was basically a medicaid expansion funded on the backs of the young and middle class.
Ideological irresponsibility.
Ideological irresponsibility.
22 Re: President Pinnochio 12/30/2016, 11:31 pm
2seaoat
It was basically a medicaid expansion funded on the backs of the young and middle class.
Ideological irresponsibility.
That might be true if you were even remotely familiar with the stats and the truth. Approximately 6.5 million in 2015 of the 20 million this year were because of medicaid expansion which is only slightly higher than the kids 19-26 who get to stay on their parents policies which were approximately 6 million.
http://obamacarefacts.com/sign-ups/obamacare-enrollment-numbers/
So arguably the biggest beneficiary were American kids who could stay on their parents policy, and typical doublespeak, the exact opposite of your statement of fact above......just ignorance, propaganda, or intentional distortion, but certainly if it was ideological irresponsibility then certainly you would agree with me all of the ACA will be revoked. crickets.
Ideological irresponsibility.
That might be true if you were even remotely familiar with the stats and the truth. Approximately 6.5 million in 2015 of the 20 million this year were because of medicaid expansion which is only slightly higher than the kids 19-26 who get to stay on their parents policies which were approximately 6 million.
http://obamacarefacts.com/sign-ups/obamacare-enrollment-numbers/
So arguably the biggest beneficiary were American kids who could stay on their parents policy, and typical doublespeak, the exact opposite of your statement of fact above......just ignorance, propaganda, or intentional distortion, but certainly if it was ideological irresponsibility then certainly you would agree with me all of the ACA will be revoked. crickets.
23 Re: President Pinnochio 12/30/2016, 11:40 pm
Markle
2seaoat wrote:It was basically a medicaid expansion funded on the backs of the young and middle class.
Ideological irresponsibility.
That might be true if you were even remotely familiar with the stats and the truth. Approximately 6.5 million in 2015 of the 20 million this year were because of medicaid expansion which is only slightly higher than the kids 19-26 who get to stay on their parents policies which were approximately 6 million.
http://obamacarefacts.com/sign-ups/obamacare-enrollment-numbers/
So arguably the biggest beneficiary were American kids who could stay on their parents policy, and typical doublespeak, the exact opposite of your statement of fact above......just ignorance, propaganda, or intentional distortion, but certainly if it was ideological irresponsibility then certainly you would agree with me all of the ACA will be revoked. crickets.
I don't know about you but I stopped being a kid when I was 18. Certainly not 26.
Obamacare is a failure known to be coming from the folks who crammed it up your...throat and called you stupid at the same time.
24 Re: President Pinnochio 12/31/2016, 12:05 am
2seaoat
I don't know about you but I stopped being a kid when I was 18. Certainly not 26.
Obamacare is a failure known to be coming from the folks who crammed it up your...throat and called you stupid at the same time.
I became an adult at 10 with the responsibility for two other human beings. I paid every dime of my clothing , cars, insurance, room and board from 14 until I finished graduate school. I had health insurance from my employers and I was lucky with not one health problem until I was 56. Some people are not so fortunate to be able to work minimum wage jobs and save for college. So, you post thread after thread how the minimum wage should not be raised, yet you expect young people to have the opportunity I had to work my way through school because the minimum wage was almost double what it is now in constant indexed dollars. You are a POS who probably had all the benefits of a father and mother, a stable home environment, and a public education paid for by taxpayers who knew the greater good of the nation was investing in their young people. In that becoming an adult at 10 I was lucky that community members took the time to get me involved in scouting where as a eagle scout it was ingrained into my soul my duty to my community. A word salad.....nope just reality, and you live in a fog of paid propaganda and early onset dementia where you cannot even carry on a conversation without spewing propaganda, and do not realize that the biggest lie told was the ACA was going to be revoked on the first day of the Trump administration. Lie. Kids will be on their parents policy from now on .......Thank you President Obama......ff he was not right, then the truth would be followed and your criticism of coverage on parents policies will be revoked......just simply stupid.
Obamacare is a failure known to be coming from the folks who crammed it up your...throat and called you stupid at the same time.
I became an adult at 10 with the responsibility for two other human beings. I paid every dime of my clothing , cars, insurance, room and board from 14 until I finished graduate school. I had health insurance from my employers and I was lucky with not one health problem until I was 56. Some people are not so fortunate to be able to work minimum wage jobs and save for college. So, you post thread after thread how the minimum wage should not be raised, yet you expect young people to have the opportunity I had to work my way through school because the minimum wage was almost double what it is now in constant indexed dollars. You are a POS who probably had all the benefits of a father and mother, a stable home environment, and a public education paid for by taxpayers who knew the greater good of the nation was investing in their young people. In that becoming an adult at 10 I was lucky that community members took the time to get me involved in scouting where as a eagle scout it was ingrained into my soul my duty to my community. A word salad.....nope just reality, and you live in a fog of paid propaganda and early onset dementia where you cannot even carry on a conversation without spewing propaganda, and do not realize that the biggest lie told was the ACA was going to be revoked on the first day of the Trump administration. Lie. Kids will be on their parents policy from now on .......Thank you President Obama......ff he was not right, then the truth would be followed and your criticism of coverage on parents policies will be revoked......just simply stupid.
25 Re: President Pinnochio 12/31/2016, 12:32 am
Guest
Guest
He's already said that there were some common sense aspects that were unlikely to be turned back. Unfortunately there are also give away unfunded aspects that will be nearly impossible to undo.
So you keep railing against the windmills. yawn
So you keep railing against the windmills. yawn
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