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Pensacola Discussion Forum » General Discussion » Hey Linda....are you going to write a letter to the girlfriend's employer about her uppity attitude and disrespect of the police?

Hey Linda....are you going to write a letter to the girlfriend's employer about her uppity attitude and disrespect of the police?

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Vikingwoman
RealLindaL
2seaoat
7 posters

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RealLindaL



Vikingwoman wrote:Oatie that is so wrong. It actually does take bravery and courage to play in this sandbox as an actual person. You don't have it and neither do I as I live in this town and don't want to embarrass my children otherwise I wouldn't give a shit. Here you are calling out someone for being a coward when you yourself are hiding behind a screen name. At least she had the courage to put her name on her letter as to her opinion of his behavior and there's nothing cowardly about that. That was her opinion and personally I agree the guy was an ass whether black or white. He should have behaved as a role model being a commissioner and that was the point.

Amen! That was PRECISELY the point even though it continues to be overlooked and/or ignored.  Thank you for your strong, sensible and cogent statement, Viking.  Unfortunately, as we know, Seaoat will not listen.

As I have meant to say all along, if I haven't already, the most tragicomic aspect of Seaoat's protest against me and my letter is that he doesn't allow me to treat Lumon May the exact same way as I would any other person in his position who acted the way he did at the time.   Anyone who can't see the irony in that is missing the far bigger picture.  And that's doubtless part of why Hallmark called Sea's relentless pontificating on this matter nauseating. Good descriptor.

RealLindaL



PkrBum wrote:You don't owe these dweebs and their tired old knee jerk race card anything.

It's all they have left to avoid the inconvenient.

Pkr I'm not sure I see your point but it would be nice if you could contribute a little more completely/meaningfully to the conversation.

RealLindaL



Salinsky wrote:His intent was clear from context and content.

There is no cure for willful ignorance.


Ignorance?? Gosh, this seems so unfair of you, Sal. I'm really surprised.

RealLindaL



Sal, check your PM's, please.

Hallmarkgard



Sal calling some one ignorant? LOL "You were born and raised in one of the most deeply racist parts of the country at a time when racism was socially acceptable in that region, and you think that telling a "and he was a credit to his race" story has something to add to a dialogue regarding race relations.

That's all I need to know."

Take a guess Sal.... When was I born? I said about 2 days ago. And because I was born in the South then any knowledge I might have is invalid? Did you find where I said "Credit to his race" or was that your quote?

Guest


Guest

RealLindaL wrote:
PkrBum wrote:You don't owe these dweebs and their tired old knee jerk race card anything.

It's all they have left to avoid the inconvenient.

Pkr I'm not sure I see your point but it would be nice if you could contribute a little more completely/meaningfully to the conversation.

My point is that its pointless to keep repeating your protestations. You wonnt accomplish anything except perhaps raising bp. Even if you can nail down your point... they'll move the goalposts. I'm not joining the direct conversation because I don't know the facts intimately and certainly can't see into your soul... things that don't slow the provocateurs down in the least. I've just seen this same senario play out countless times and was trying to save you some grief... there's no way to win... nothing to be accomplished.

Hallmarkgard



How I learned to not to hate

I was born in 1942. I never went to school with a black person. This was when we had separate water fountains and bathrooms. Many restaurants, movie theatres and even doctor offices had segregated areas for blacks.

My parents were good people. We never used slur words in our house. My father served WW2 and it would have been very easy for him to do so.

My uncle was a Baptist preacher. He spoke of equal rights way before it was popular to do so. Once , when I was about 12 years old, at we were at a large family dinner where one of my Aunts called him a “Nigger” Lover... My Mother and Father left the dinner and my Mother never spoke to her again. They both lived into their 90s but they never again spoke to each other.

I was drafted into the Army 1964. Many blacks were also drafted and we all lived and worked together. At first, it was awkward for everyone. But we learned to trust each other. Not saying we liked everyone, we just learned to adapt and to accept. One time in the mess hall, we sat down with a group of Black guys. One white guy said “You know, I think this the first time I have ever eaten with a black person” One of the Black guys said “ Yeah ,I know what you mean. Dont think I have ever eaten with a white person either” With that simple statement, we all understood.

I joined the Army Security Agency for 4 years..I went to Japan for 2 years and then a year in Korea. For various reasons I did not come back to the States during those 3 years. Being a minority in another country gave me a very small feeling of what it was like to live in another society that you did not belong. You could never be one of them, you were always the outsider. When my time was up I asked one of my friends, who was black, to come see me when we got out. He was from Watts in California, He laughed and said “Your folks would have a fit if I came to stay at your house and you could not even make 2 blocks down the street in my home town. ”. He was right. For us race had disappeared, we did not even think about it. But yet back where we both from, a war was raging. I was confused, I dont think either of understood why people chose to hate each because of who they are. We shook hands, gave either other a hug and I was back to the land of the absurd.

Some years later, My son wanted to play baseball. I did not have the money or the time to let him play in some the big local youth leagues. He played at the YMCA in Myrtle Grove until he became too old. One day my daughter said. “Hey there is a sign on W st looking for youth Baseball Players” Great I said. Go take your bother tomorrow and sign him up. Next night at supper every thing was very very quiet. I asked “Get your Brother signed up for baseball?” “Yes” was a weak reply. More silence.. “So”? Well, she said he is the only white kid in the league!!!! …...I exploded..”Are you crazy? What the hell were you thinking” Gone in a flash was the lessons I had learned from my Army friends. I was back to playing the game” He played and I supported them as best I could. The coach was a sanitation worker, Most of the kids did not have a Father that lived with them. We played out big games at McGee field. It was a unreal experience. I watched as the teams struggled to find equipment, transportation, and struggle with issues of insufficient money. But many people helped even when they could not afford the time or money to do so. I was the one who learned, they already knew. He did well and later on and few more white kids joined the league. The Black community accepted us while many of our Community would not accept them. A bitter pill to take

Vikingwoman



The only thing I got from that story was you shucked off your job of taking your kid to sign up for baseball and put it on another kid then yelled at her for acting like a kid. Good job Dad!

Floridatexan

Floridatexan

RealLindaL wrote:
Floridatexan wrote:
I will ask Linda this:  When Bob Solarsky plowed into cars in a mall parking lot, did you write a letter asking for him to be fired?  When former Supt. of Schools Jim Paul was charged with DUI, did you write a letter condemning him?  And did it occur to you to do so in either case?

Bob Solarsky was not an official involved in running my county, so it was entirely none of my business.

I don't even recall knowing much if anything about the supt.'s DUI; probably to my shame, I honestly don't pay much attention to school board people or matters or any more since I have no children of school age.

I DO, however, pay attention to county business, and I don't vote for discourteous bullies.

Look, FT, though I understand (and naturally somewhat resent) your rather unfair implication, I will tell you one thing about me that may or may not help you understand just how disturbed I was at May's behavior:  

I can't stand bullies and I detest people (of ANY RACE -- GET IT??) who lord it over others with unreasonable "discussion" tactics which are not discussion at all but pure and simple ATTACK mode in an attempt to shut up the other person.  

This is NOT the kind of behavior I want to see in a person making governmental decisions that directly affect me and my family.  Can you understand that?       BBL,     LL

Any other questions for me?

Linda, I'm not trying to insult you. I'm happy you decided to rejoin this forum, and I value your contributions here. I've been here since 1979...I have always had a strong connection to PB...but in all that time...up to today...with all the friends who have come and gone...I don't know a single black person who lives on PB. Not one. So, I understand the point that Seaoat is trying to make. And, yes, I do understand. I remember when then Gov. Jeb Bush had to appoint 4 county commissioners to replace those who resigned in disgrace. I've seen much worse behavior from other people in positions of power here who were not black than anything I saw from Lumon May. If the police had stopped me under the same circumstances, I would also have questioned their actions. I've had to insist that the police not enter my house, right here in Pensacola...or I probably would have had a dead dog, or worse. I've seen the way the police stick together and get their "facts" straight for the courtroom. I'm not suggesting that you're racist; I don't believe you are...just insulated from the reality of what goes on in this county.

Sal

Sal

PkrBum wrote:

My point is that its pointless to keep repeating your protestations. You wonnt accomplish anything except perhaps raising bp. Even if you can nail down your point...

The point has been nailed down definitively, Poindexter.

Want me to do it again?

Vikingwoman



RealLindaL wrote:
Salinsky wrote:His intent was clear from context and content.

There is no cure for willful ignorance.


Ignorance?? Gosh, this seems so unfair of you, Sal.  I'm really surprised.

I think Sal was pointing out Hallmark was pointing out he knew a good black person. The inference can be made that there are some good black people which does smack of you know what.

Sal

Sal

Linda says Hallmark is a black dude.

Given his commentary in this thread, how profoundly sad and maddening would that be?

Sal

Sal

Hallmarkgard wrote:Did you find where I said "Credit to his race" or was that your quote?

Have it your way.

I'll remove the obvious inference that offends you and post it again, and maybe you'll finally answer.

I won't hold my breath.

.................................................

Well, first you tell us this ...

Hallmarkgard wrote:
In our current society they is no proper way to critique the behaviour or actions  of a black person by a white person.  

And, then you tell us that you are going to say something regarding "race relations" and launch immediately into your Donald Sapp story.

Now, wouldn't it be reasonable to infer that you are saying that if African-Americans would only conform to your subjective standard for good behavior as illustrated by your Donald Sapp story, then race relations would improve?

I'm sure that is what you were trying to say, but it's like pulling teeth.

Care to elaborate?



Last edited by Salinsky on 7/8/2016, 11:59 pm; edited 1 time in total

Vikingwoman



Floridatexan wrote:
RealLindaL wrote:
Floridatexan wrote:
I will ask Linda this:  When Bob Solarsky plowed into cars in a mall parking lot, did you write a letter asking for him to be fired?  When former Supt. of Schools Jim Paul was charged with DUI, did you write a letter condemning him?  And did it occur to you to do so in either case?

Bob Solarsky was not an official involved in running my county, so it was entirely none of my business.

I don't even recall knowing much if anything about the supt.'s DUI; probably to my shame, I honestly don't pay much attention to school board people or matters or any more since I have no children of school age.

I DO, however, pay attention to county business, and I don't vote for discourteous bullies.

Look, FT, though I understand (and naturally somewhat resent) your rather unfair implication, I will tell you one thing about me that may or may not help you understand just how disturbed I was at May's behavior:  

I can't stand bullies and I detest people (of ANY RACE -- GET IT??) who lord it over others with unreasonable "discussion" tactics which are not discussion at all but pure and simple ATTACK mode in an attempt to shut up the other person.  

This is NOT the kind of behavior I want to see in a person making governmental decisions that directly affect me and my family.  Can you understand that?       BBL,     LL

Any other questions for me?

Linda, I'm not trying to insult you.  I'm happy you decided to rejoin this forum, and I value your contributions here.  I've been here since 1979...I have always had a strong connection to PB...but in all that time...up to today...with all the friends who have come and gone...I don't know a single black person who lives on PB.  Not one.  So, I understand the point that Seaoat is trying to make.  And, yes, I do understand.  I remember when then Gov. Jeb Bush had to appoint 4 county commissioners to replace those who resigned in disgrace.  I've seen much worse behavior from other people in positions of power here who were not black than anything I saw from Lumon May.  If the police had stopped me under the same circumstances, I would also have questioned their actions.  I've had to insist that the police not enter my house, right here in Pensacola...or I probably would have had a dead dog, or worse.  I've seen the way the police stick together and get their "facts" straight for the courtroom.  I'm not suggesting that you're racist; I don't believe you are...just insulated from the reality of what goes on in this county.  

But you did infer that just like you said I was biased and anyone else who doesn't see race as a constant issue. Not everybody does things w/ racial motives involved but yet when ever there is a black and white person, it is believed there is discrimination involved. Many many times it does involve race and I agree w/ that. There are far too many black people who are treated much differently than whites but to assume all black/white encounters are racial like Seaoat does is unfair. You have to ask yourself if this was a white person would I feel this way and you'll have your answer.

Vikingwoman



Salinsky wrote:Linda says Hallmark is a black dude.

Given his commentary in this thread, how profoundly sad and maddening would that be?

Hallmark is not a black dude.

Guest


Guest

Salinsky wrote:
PkrBum wrote:

My point is that its pointless to keep repeating your protestations. You wonnt accomplish anything except perhaps raising bp. Even if you can nail down your point...

The point has been nailed down definitively, Poindexter.

Want me to do it again?

Oh... I know the point. You're so debilitated by political correctness and a mutated version of social justice that you can't fathom a person holding a black person to the same standards of any other person... it's inconceivable to you.

Your conditioning is near completion... you wouldn't know equal or fair if was the law of the land. It's sad really.

Sal

Sal

Vikingwoman wrote:
Salinsky wrote:Linda says Hallmark is a black dude.

Given his commentary in this thread, how profoundly sad and maddening would that be?

Hallmark is not a black dude.

Thank goodness.

Self-loathing is so toxic and frequently goes sideways.

Vikingwoman



Hallmark has posted pictures of his younger days in the military. Lily white w/ black framed glasses.

Sal

Sal

PkrBum wrote:

Oh... I know the point. You're so debilitated by political correctness and a mutated version of social justice that you can't fathom a person holding a black person to the same standards of any other person... it's inconceivable to you.

Your conditioning is near completion... you wouldn't know equal or fair if was the law of the land. It's sad really.

The only point you know is on top your head, Poindexter.

Why don't you specify your subjective standards to which minorities must conform to be deserving of basic human rights?

Equal and fair??

Is that like fair and balanced?

You're hilarious.

RealLindaL



Salinsky wrote:
Vikingwoman wrote:
Salinsky wrote:Linda says Hallmark is a black dude.

Given his commentary in this thread, how profoundly sad and maddening would that be?

Hallmark is not a black dude.

Thank goodness.

Self-loathing is so toxic and frequently goes sideways.

OK, well, somehow I did think Hallmark had said at some point that he was black, but obviously I'd either been mis-informed or had misunderstood.  Since he's not, in that context I can understand Sal's commentary a little better, though I still think it's being overly harsh on the guy, while Sal obviously thinks it would only be worse if Hallmark were indeed black -- which to me would make Sal's comments over the top critical (not, I realize, that he would care what I thought).
In any event I certainly didn't expect something I'd mentioned to Sal in a PM to be aired here.  I'll remember that one for sure.

RealLindaL



PkrBum wrote:
RealLindaL wrote:
PkrBum wrote:You don't owe these dweebs and their tired old knee jerk race card anything.

It's all they have left to avoid the inconvenient.

Pkr I'm not sure I see your point but it would be nice if you could contribute a little more completely/meaningfully to the conversation.

My point is that its pointless to keep repeating your protestations. You wonnt accomplish anything except perhaps raising bp. Even if you can nail down your point... they'll move the goalposts. I'm not joining the direct conversation because I don't know the facts intimately and certainly can't see into your soul... things that don't slow the provocateurs down in the least. I've just seen this same senario play out countless times and was trying to save you some grief... there's no way to win... nothing to be accomplished.

OK Pkr, thanks for making yourself clear. And you're right, of course.

RealLindaL



Vikingwoman wrote:
RealLindaL wrote:
Salinsky wrote:His intent was clear from context and content.

There is no cure for willful ignorance.


Ignorance?? Gosh, this seems so unfair of you, Sal.  I'm really surprised.

I think Sal was pointing out Hallmark was pointing out he knew a good black person. The inference can be made that there are some good black people which does smack of you know what.

OK, yeah, as I've since stated, I can see what Sal meant in the context of Hallmark's being white (even though Sal thinks it would only be worse were he black).

I still think Sal is being a bit overly harsh but it doesn't matter what I think.

RealLindaL



Floridatexan wrote:Linda, I'm not trying to insult you.  I'm happy you decided to rejoin this forum, and I value your contributions here.  I've been here since 1979...I have always had a strong connection to PB...but in all that time...up to today...with all the friends who have come and gone...I don't know a single black person who lives on PB.  Not one.  So, I understand the point that Seaoat is trying to make.  And, yes, I do understand.  I remember when then Gov. Jeb Bush had to appoint 4 county commissioners to replace those who resigned in disgrace.  I've seen much worse behavior from other people in positions of power here who were not black than anything I saw from Lumon May.  If the police had stopped me under the same circumstances, I would also have questioned their actions.  I've had to insist that the police not enter my house, right here in Pensacola...or I probably would have had a dead dog, or worse.  I've seen the way the police stick together and get their "facts" straight for the courtroom.  I'm not suggesting that you're racist; I don't believe you are...just insulated from the reality of what goes on in this county.  

Thank you for your kind words about my "contributions," though sometimes I do wonder.

The point Seaoat is apparently trying to make (and that you now join him in) is that because I live on PB I have no clue about racism.  Don't you think that's rather presumptuous of you both?  Look, I have stated on this forum that I'm older than Sea.  And at one point or another I have also stated I've only lived here since 2000.  That leaves a whole lot of other years. What about the rest of my life, where I've lived or what I've experienced?  Neither you nor Sea has much of a clue about any of that, yet you make assumptions  (or he does) that I live in a "bubble" (his mot of the month).  Yes, it's entirely presumptuous -- and in any event NONE of that "bubble talk" changes the fact that an elected official here acted like a horse's patoot and totally lost my respect.  That would've been my reaction had he been talking to the police officer, a Burger King server, or the garbage collector.   There's no call to treat another person the way he did.  It was bullying plain and simple and, though it's none of my affair, for his family's sake I hope he doesn't speak to his wife or any children that way if/when he feels boxed into a corner or angry or whatever.  To me it demonstrates a character flaw, an inability to moderate -- a common problem that knows no skin color.  I hope it doesn't get him in real trouble one of these days.

As for the demographics on Pensacola Beach, guess what? They've changed a lot just since I've lived here, but especially since Ivan.   The population is more diverse and I applaud that.  Just because you don't know any blacks here doesn't mean they don't exist here.  They do, along with Latinos and Asians, among others.    

In any case, I don't know about you, FT, but my circle of friends and acquaintances is not limited to this 8-1/2 miles of narrow barrier island.  Is your circle that geographically limited?  Is your life's experience that limited?  Mine isn't, nor is my experience with bigotry and discrimination, with which I'm well acquainted.

Yes, I was here, too, when Jeb appointed the new commissioners, and it was indeed disgraceful.   With your reference to "behavior" worse than May's you're presumably talking about political and personal corruption, which of course I decry as well, but seeing May's waaaay over the top interpersonal behavior is a horse of an entirely different color and I don't see that because some other commissioners were corrupt and he isn't (presuming he isn't), that this excuses his behavior.  It certainly doesn't make it any more palatable to me.

You say you would've "questioned" the police's actions had they stopped you.  Fine!  No one said you shouldn't, and I agreed with your prior post on that score (about one's constitutional rights),  but I'll repeat as I said to you before in that same response, that it was the WAY May approached the officer, not the simple fact that he questioned the stop.    And as someone else (Viking, I think?) has pointed out, one can question without being a total jerk about it.  I'm going to ask you right out:  Have you viewed the entire video of the May traffic stop, or not?  If so, do you approve of the way he acted?  Do his attitude and behavior make you proud that he's a county commissioner in our area?  If so, you and I are miles apart and so be it.

Floridatexan

Floridatexan

RealLindaL wrote:
Floridatexan wrote:Linda, I'm not trying to insult you.  I'm happy you decided to rejoin this forum, and I value your contributions here.  I've been here since 1979...I have always had a strong connection to PB...but in all that time...up to today...with all the friends who have come and gone...I don't know a single black person who lives on PB.  Not one.  So, I understand the point that Seaoat is trying to make.  And, yes, I do understand.  I remember when then Gov. Jeb Bush had to appoint 4 county commissioners to replace those who resigned in disgrace.  I've seen much worse behavior from other people in positions of power here who were not black than anything I saw from Lumon May.  If the police had stopped me under the same circumstances, I would also have questioned their actions.  I've had to insist that the police not enter my house, right here in Pensacola...or I probably would have had a dead dog, or worse.  I've seen the way the police stick together and get their "facts" straight for the courtroom.  I'm not suggesting that you're racist; I don't believe you are...just insulated from the reality of what goes on in this county.  

Thank you for your kind words about my "contributions," though sometimes I do wonder.

The point Seaoat is apparently trying to make (and that you now join him in) is that because I live on PB I have no clue about racism.  Don't you think that's rather presumptuous of you both?  Look, I have stated on this forum that I'm older than Sea.  And at one point or another I have also stated I've only lived here since 2000.  That leaves a whole lot of other years. What about the rest of my life, where I've lived or what I've experienced?  Neither you nor Sea has much of a clue about any of that, yet you make assumptions  (or he does) that I live in a "bubble" (his mot of the month).  Yes, it's entirely presumptuous -- and in any event NONE of that "bubble talk" changes the fact that an elected official here acted like a horse's patoot and totally lost my respect.  That would've been my reaction had he been talking to the police officer, a Burger King server, or the garbage collector.   There's no call to treat another person the way he did.  It was bullying plain and simple and, though it's none of my affair, for his family's sake I hope he doesn't speak to his wife or any children that way if/when he feels boxed into a corner or angry or whatever.  To me it demonstrates a character flaw, an inability to moderate -- a common problem that knows no skin color.  I hope it doesn't get him in real trouble one of these days.

As for the demographics on Pensacola Beach, guess what? They've changed a lot just since I've lived here, but especially since Ivan.   The population is more diverse and I applaud that.  Just because you don't know any blacks here doesn't mean they don't exist here.  They do, along with Latinos and Asians, among others.    

In any case, I don't know about you, FT, but my circle of friends and acquaintances is not limited to this 8-1/2 miles of narrow barrier island.  Is your circle that geographically limited?  Is your life's experience that limited?  Mine isn't, nor is my experience with bigotry and discrimination, with which I'm well acquainted.

Yes, I was here, too, when Jeb appointed the new commissioners, and it was indeed disgraceful.   With your reference to "behavior" worse than May's you're presumably talking about political and personal corruption, which of course I decry as well, but seeing May's waaaay over the top interpersonal behavior is a horse of an entirely different color and I don't see that because some other commissioners were corrupt and he isn't (presuming he isn't), that this excuses his behavior.  It certainly doesn't make it any more palatable to me.

You say you would've "questioned" the police's actions had they stopped you.  Fine!  No one said you shouldn't, and I agreed with your prior post on that score (about one's constitutional rights),  but I'll repeat as I said to you before in that same response, that it was the WAY May approached the officer, not the simple fact that he questioned the stop.    And as someone else (Viking, I think?) has pointed out, one can question without being a total jerk about it.  I'm going to ask you right out:  Have you viewed the entire video of the May traffic stop, or not?  If so, do you approve of the way he acted?  Do his attitude and behavior make you proud that he's a county commissioner in our area?  If so, you and I are miles apart and so be it.

Linda, I don't think we're miles apart at all.  I believe I did watch the whole thing...remember that his brother was in the background and making a general nuisance of himself.  Imagine if Lumon May had been arrested.  What would the PNJ do with that?  I don't believe that the officer had a reason to stop him.  His behavior would not prompt me to write a letter of condemnation...it really wouldn't.  I've had quite a few letters published by the PNJ, but now I'm not even a subscriber, because they've made it harder for the majority to afford their "news"; because they didn't keep the best and brightest on their staff; and because there is a certain slant that I don't appreciate.  That's my perception as a former ad rep and one-time member of the local Press Club.  

I have transcribed this for you.  I don't even know the name of the lady who gave this speech or the venue in which it was presented, but here is an excerpt:

"I want every white person in this room who would be happy to be treated as this society in general treats our citizens...our black citizens...if you, as a white person, would be happy to receive the same treatment that our black citizens do in this society, please stand.

You didn't understand the directions.  If you white folks want to be treated the way blacks are treated in this society, stand.

Nobody's standing here.

That says very plainly that you know what's happening.  You know you don't want it for you.  I want to know why you're so willing to accept it or to allow it to happen for others."

*********

I'm not accusing you of being racist. I don't know your life experiences any more than you know mine. But because my grandchildren are bi-racial, and because of many other (and some very recent) events that I don't have time to go into now, I am acutely aware of racial prejudice in this community.



Last edited by Floridatexan on 7/9/2016, 12:37 pm; edited 1 time in total

Hallmarkgard



Maybe a better question is "What do you want me to do?
"  Become a school mentor?  Or is that forcing my white world on a minority?  Rent my house to a minority for 200 a month?  Or is that placing them under my control?  Give a person a job?  Or is that as Sal says, Expecting  them to meet my standards for employment?  Work for a Minority? Or is that some how demeaning to them or maybe I have taken a job away from a Black person?   Honest question.



Last edited by Hallmarkgard on 7/9/2016, 12:55 pm; edited 1 time in total

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