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Pensacola Discussion Forum » Politics » Now that we are in a de facto war with Russia….

Now that we are in a de facto war with Russia….

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Wordslinger
Hospital Bob
2seaoat
gatorfan
8 posters

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gatorfan



With Putin using his forces to fight anti-Assad factions and the U.S. fighting to support factions opposed to Assad, what else can you call it?

Let Putin handle it, Obama has clearly made a hash out of Syria with his bumbling around.

Pull our forces out of the war and let the people their fight it out themselves.

2seaoat



Idiocy.  I am listening to Bolton on Fox News saying we are letting Russia have influence in Syria.   A complete lack of historical knowledge by dumb as a post analyst which feed this idea that Russia's presence in Syria is new.  Again, since 1973 Russia/Soviet has had a military presence in Syria, and during the 1973 Middle East war threatened to use SOVIET military force in the war if the Israelis who finally turned defeat into victory did not stop any advances on the western Suez area.  We came to the brink of Nuclear war.  The Soviet Union was critical in Egypt and at one time actively backed the Syrian/Egyptian unified state.

I listened to nonsense two years ago how we were on the verge of war, and now how Putin has mastered America in Syria.   Complete and utter idiocy.  America, Saudi Arabia, and Israel were the forces which were supporting the opposition to the state of Syria.   Israel almost lost the 1973 war after the Egyptians had destroyed 150 Israeli tanks in the Sinai and the Golan Heights were completely vulnerable, and the Syrians had a clear path to the ocean through Israel, yet they stopped for 24 hours which was enough time for America to airlift tanks to Israel and the advance was stopped.   In the eighties Israel destroyed Lebanon.  In the 90s and after 911 the nation state of Iraq was destroyed, and nobody can see that we are still advancing the interests of the Saudis and Israel?  Putin is saying enough Israel and Saudi Arabia.  Stop interfering with the internal affairs of Syria.  The ironic thing is that 250k civilians would be alive today, but for the intervention of the Saudis, Israelis, and Americans in a civil war.  This is just MIC screaming that they are losing profits as the military is downsized and we leave the middle east......Bolton the Neocon supreme is creating the fiction that America is somehow challenged or less safe......again Israel and Saudi Arabia are not America.   Sorry our President has to listen to Bolton saying that Christian genocide is now going to happen.....sorry......the current regime has NEVER conducted any genocide on Christians and Russia would never tolerate the same.  Simple propaganda stirring up low IQ folks who are oblivious to history or zones of influence.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

This is one thing I agree with Trump about.  He says let Russia have Syria.
But I would go even further.  Let's get off the raghead oil and then let Russia have the whole godforsaken region.
Let the Russians spend their money installing dictators and occupying countries and waging war on the ragheads for a change.  Let them own that fucking hellhole for a change.

2seaoat



Syria has been a client state of Soviets/Russians since the 1950s. The ignorance being displayed on TV and on this forum is mind numbing stupid. Israel and Saudi Arabia won. The people and nation state of Syria, like Lebanon will take decades or longer to ever be a threat to Israel or Saudi Arabia in the middle east. Putin watching a million refugees understands that America has actively been destroying Syria which has been our goal since the 1950s as it again was a client state of the Soviets and a threat to Israel.

Has anybody full absorbed the reality that ISIS has had a clear path to attack Israel, and yet why has not even a small engagement happened. If you do not understand the end game, you cannot understand what has happened and what will be happening in the future. Did you note Israel sent ambassadors to Russia when they announced they would be commencing air combat.......do you think this was by accident also. Deaf, dumb, and blind is no way of understanding foreign relations in the modern world.

Wordslinger

Wordslinger

2seaoat wrote:Idiocy.  I am listening to Bolton on Fox News saying we are letting Russia have influence in Syria.   A complete lack of historical knowledge by dumb as a post analyst which feed this idea that Russia's presence in Syria is new.  Again, since 1973 Russia/Soviet has had a military presence in Syria, and during the 1973 Middle East war threatened to use SOVIET military force in the war if the Israelis who finally turned defeat into victory did not stop any advances on the western Suez area.  We came to the brink of Nuclear war.  The Soviet Union was critical in Egypt and at one time actively backed the Syrian/Egyptian unified state.

I listened to nonsense two years ago how we were on the verge of war, and now how Putin has mastered America in Syria.   Complete and utter idiocy.  America, Saudi Arabia, and Israel were the forces which were supporting the opposition to the state of Syria.   Israel almost lost the 1973 war after the Egyptians had destroyed 150 Israeli tanks in the Sinai and the Golan Heights were completely vulnerable, and the Syrians had a clear path to the ocean through Israel, yet they stopped for 24 hours which was enough time for America to airlift tanks to Israel and the advance was stopped.   In the eighties Israel destroyed Lebanon.  In the 90s and after 911 the nation state of Iraq was destroyed, and nobody can see that we are still advancing the interests of the Saudis and Israel?  Putin is saying enough Israel and Saudi Arabia.  Stop interfering with the internal affairs of Syria.  The ironic thing is that 250k civilians would be alive today, but for the intervention of the Saudis, Israelis, and Americans in a civil war.  This is just MIC screaming that they are losing profits as the military is downsized and we leave the middle east......Bolton the Neocon supreme is creating the fiction that America is somehow challenged or less safe......again Israel and Saudi Arabia are not America.   Sorry our President has to listen to Bolton saying that Christian genocide is now going to happen.....sorry......the current regime has NEVER conducted any genocide on Christians and Russia would never tolerate the same.  Simple propaganda stirring up low IQ folks who are oblivious to history or zones of influence.

Well stated!!

2seaoat



Trump is an idiot. To give this man any semblance of intelligence is more happenstance than his acting on known historical knowledge and current affairs......I mean he is the worst kind of idiot.....he thinks he is smart....that only smart people get in the Wharton School....which is not even listed among the top 25 MBA programs.....Daddy's bucks allowed this idiot to even get into a graduate program......the emperor's new clothes is being kind.....this guy has nothing going but pure greed and avarice combined with brand building by clownish and boring conduct. You could have put his inherited money in a blind trust and it would have earned more than what trump claims he has as wealth, around 10 billion. Yet, all the analyst are saying that his real net value is below 4 billion which means he has LOST his daddy's money. His financial statements have about a 4 billion dollar value on the Trump brand.....the man is insane.

Sal

Sal

The GOP has cultivated the politics of impotent outrage and bone-headed anti-intellectualism and is in a race to the bottom of what seems to be a bottomless pit.

Trump is the embodiment of decades of antipathy, anger, and anti-establishment hostility.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Okay, if that's the way it's gonna be, then I say let the rooskies have that hellish place IN SPITE OF Donald Trump.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

I keep listening to some of these butchemup types.  They really don't seem to understand nature.
They're back on that neocon horseshit:  "we better go over there and fuck with them because if we don't they're gonna come over here".

Have these chickenhawks and neocons never heard of nature?  In nature,  shit doesn't fuck with you until you fuck with it.  I was taught that elementary shit before some of these retards were even born.   If you leave a hornet's nest alone,  the hornets don't fuck with you.  But when you go fucking with the hornet's test,  they'll come after you.  That goes for most all living creatures including humans.  
But these jerkwads have never heard of nature.  That Bolton character is the most screwed up individual I've ever encountered.  And so are the rest of his ilk.

Trump may be a total fraud.  But he's got this one right.

gatorfan



2seaoat wrote:Idiocy.  I am listening to Bolton on Fox News saying we are letting Russia have influence in Syria.   A complete lack of historical knowledge by dumb as a post analyst which feed this idea that Russia's presence in Syria is new.  Again, since 1973 Russia/Soviet has had a military presence in Syria, and during the 1973 Middle East war threatened to use SOVIET military force in the war if the Israelis who finally turned defeat into victory did not stop any advances on the western Suez area.  We came to the brink of Nuclear war.  The Soviet Union was critical in Egypt and at one time actively backed the Syrian/Egyptian unified state.

I listened to nonsense two years ago how we were on the verge of war, and now how Putin has mastered America in Syria.   Complete and utter idiocy.  America, Saudi Arabia, and Israel were the forces which were supporting the opposition to the state of Syria.   Israel almost lost the 1973 war after the Egyptians had destroyed 150 Israeli tanks in the Sinai and the Golan Heights were completely vulnerable, and the Syrians had a clear path to the ocean through Israel, yet they stopped for 24 hours which was enough time for America to airlift tanks to Israel and the advance was stopped.   In the eighties Israel destroyed Lebanon.  In the 90s and after 911 the nation state of Iraq was destroyed, and nobody can see that we are still advancing the interests of the Saudis and Israel?  Putin is saying enough Israel and Saudi Arabia.  Stop interfering with the internal affairs of Syria.  The ironic thing is that 250k civilians would be alive today, but for the intervention of the Saudis, Israelis, and Americans in a civil war.  This is just MIC screaming that they are losing profits as the military is downsized and we leave the middle east......Bolton the Neocon supreme is creating the fiction that America is somehow challenged or less safe......again Israel and Saudi Arabia are not America.   Sorry our President has to listen to Bolton saying that Christian genocide is now going to happen.....sorry......the current regime has NEVER conducted any genocide on Christians and Russia would never tolerate the same.  Simple propaganda stirring up low IQ folks who are oblivious to history or zones of influence.

Now I know what's wrong with you - you listen to Fox news.

So, you think Russia should take over? I do, I'm tired of our troops shedding blood and our treasury being drained fighting for clumps of dirt for people who hate us anyway.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

gatorfan wrote: I'm tired of our troops shedding blood and our treasury being drained fighting for clumps of dirt for people who hate us anyway.

I have a retired Marine Sgt friend who's been working for military contractors in Iraq and Afghanistan for the last seven years.  He's working as an IT.
At his peak he was getting paid a hundred and fifty grand a year plus all living expenses.  And 80% of that was income tax free.
About two years ago he quit to come back home.  The best IT job he could get paid him a fraction of that.  So after less than a year he went back over there to get the big money aqain.
As he has so often pointed out to me,  if he's getting $150k then dear god what are the higher ups making off of this?  
He tells me about more waste,  fraud and abuse than you can imagine.
Outside of one of the camps he was working in was pallet loads of equipment that nobody even wanted just rotting out in the desert.  Because somebody made a shit pot of money selling that crap.
He once told me about a whole freight train loaded with that stuff up and disappeared.  Locomotive and all.  Because what doesn't rot in the desert gets hijacked and sold on the black market.

He keeps shaking his head over it because none of what he sees ever gets reported on ANY media,  not just Fox News.

Guest


Guest

Syria is a clusterfuck. Can anyone even figure out who those moderate rebels are of which obama speaks?

What exactly is he hooooping for? What outcome can a reasonable person expect? At what cost?

At this point obama should just stick to cultivating race and class war domestically... atleast he's good at that.

2seaoat



Now I know what's wrong with you - you listen to Fox news.

So, you think Russia should take over? I do, I'm tired of our troops shedding blood and our treasury being drained fighting for clumps of dirt for people who hate us anyway.


I watch Fox News to better understand the Saudi and Israeli propaganda and prepare for what dunderheads will repeat here.

So, you think Russia should take over?

I think we need to stop fighting proxy wars for MIC, Israel, and Saudi Arabia. Syria and the destruction of the father of the current dictator has been an American foreign Policy goal since 1973. The Soviets and Russians have Syria as a Client state continuously for over 65 years and have been countering our attempts to do to Syria what Israel did to Lebanon. The Arab spring gave cover for our efforts. Israel, Saudi Arabia, and America accomplished their historic strategic goal to eliminate Iraq and Syria as threats to the nation state Israel. What is stunning is how impotent Russia has been for two years. The refugee crisis and the realization that Syria will be utterly destroyed and all goals achieved by Israel, America, and Saudi Arabia has finally been enough to make the Russians act, just as they acted when the 1973 war went from an Arab coalition victory, to a stunning reversal and a complete and utter victory for Israel. The last time this world was faced with a real threat of nuclear war was the fall of 1973. Most people here are ignorant or too young to understand history and the role Syria has played in our foreign policy.

I'm tired of our troops shedding blood and our treasury being drained fighting for clumps of dirt for people who hate us anyway.

Do not be confused. We have been a proxy for other interests. The brilliance of President Obama has been his patience, and the realization of who is responsible for ISIS. He cannot have a truthful press conference and simply say the Israelis, us, and Saudi Arabia leveraged the Arab Spring to destroy the nation state of Syria, and the MIC, Israel, and Saudi Arabia want us back into the Middle East, and the President's only smart play is exactly what he has been doing......bare minimum engagement of ISIS and continual shrinkage of our military. It is entirely amusing to listen to the shills for Mic, Israel, and Saudi Arabia spewing Neocon nonsense on Fox....how we have never been weaker to allow the Russians into Syria.....the lack of knowledge of the American people to accept this propaganda is mind boggling. Stupid cannot be fixed. The President cannot cave to beheadings, challenges that Putin is stronger than America, and the need for boots in the Middle East to SHOW how strong we are........a real tough guy is the quiet one in the bar sitting next to the yipping tough guy who is going to kick your asz.....a wise man ignores the yipping tough guy and keeps his eye on the quiet guy.

America is finally disengaging from proxy wars. America is growing stronger.

2seaoat



Can anyone even figure out who those moderate rebels are of which obama speaks?

Those were the folks who honestly were rebelling from the dictatorship, and are now long gone, because we used them to escalate the destruction of Syria which was our GOAL. There is no Syria. There is no moderates. There is the destruction of the Syrian state, and we must simply disengage, and let the Saudis and Israelis fight their own proxy wars.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

The right-wing media has made this into a wrastlin match between obama and putin and they're pullin for putin.  And it wouldn't matter if it's putin or whoever,  what they're really wanting is to see is obama get the piledriver and then get thrown out of the ring BY ANY OTHER WRASTLER.
And it's not much better with the rest of the media.  It's all about the feud between these two celebrated personalities.  They don't give a rat's ass about syria or what happens to syria as long as they can play Vince McMahon and put on this wrastlin show.

Wordslinger

Wordslinger

Just heard Brooke Baldwin, anchor on CNN call out breaking news in hysterical tones that Russia's aircraft bombed Assad's enemies today, but not necessarily ISIS. Why are her panties in a knot? Putin made it clear he was there to protect Assad's government and that he would put his aircraft into action. What I'm hearing in Baldwin's panicked tones, is that Assad may have hit our favored rebels. Who in hell ever they are. We need to clear the hell out of Syria, or we need to invade Syria full bore and nuke Moscow. No doubt Bolton and the other neocons are for war -- anywhere, anytime.

Putin hasn't outsmarted us, he's taken the only sensible course -- if Assad falls, then Syria becomes ISIS--al Qaeda ... or?

2seaoat



Putin hasn't outsmarted us, he's taken the only sensible course -- if Assad falls, then Syria becomes ISIS--al Qaeda ... or?


Exactly. Putin has been getting his head handed to him for ten years. We back the insurgency within the old Soviet state, and we cause a regime change. Putin on 60 minutes clearly states we KNOW who backed the insurgency. America peels off almost 30% of the monolithic Soviet threat, and the idiots are talking about the Russians securing their naval bases in Crimea and are expanding their zone of influence. Hardly. Now in Syria, we are part of the evil cabal of Israel, Saudi Arabia and us to destroy a legal nation state, and this idea that Putin has outsmarted us......I think the utter destruction of Syria as represented by a million refugees simply had Russia acting almost too late. We need to stop living in a bubble and start engaging our brains. Thankfully, President Obama has been brilliant. He tells Israel to shove it....we are done with being your shill in the middle east....we will cover your back, but we are done, and then tells the Neocons we are leaving the middle east, as he does not lose his patience with the theatrics of the Saudi/Israeli ISIS which they demand boots on the Ground. This really is not that complex. It never has been. Israel and Saudi Arabia won. The Iran deal however allows the last remaining nation state in the middle east still an active threat, but where diplomacy is the only path to true peace and carnage is no longer acceptable to intelligent leadership, Obama's brilliance continues to befuddle the Neocons, and Putin is his bitch.

ZVUGKTUBM

ZVUGKTUBM

gatorfan wrote:I'm tired of our troops shedding blood and our treasury being drained fighting for clumps of dirt for people who hate us anyway.

cheerscheerscheerscheerscheers

http://www.best-electric-barbecue-grills.com

ZVUGKTUBM

ZVUGKTUBM

2seaoat wrote:President Obama has been brilliant.  He tells Israel to shove it....we are done with being your shill in the middle east....we will cover your back, but we are done...

Bibi only responds to stern words. I am glad President Obama has finally put U.S. interests in front of Israel's. Ariel Sharon must be rolling in his grave.....

Now that we are in a de facto war with Russia…. Ariel_10

http://www.best-electric-barbecue-grills.com

Markle

Markle

John Kerry has made a gigantic concession to Russia. For over fifty years the US and other nations have kept Russia out of the Middle East and rightfully so.

Russia wants to strengthen Baghdad government under Tehran's dominance strengthen Assad and Hezbollah then reach a modus vivendi with ISIS. They basically declare a truce with ISIS and then Russia can do on to do whatever they want.

Russia is using their Air Force to strike Libya warning US to stay out of the way.

WE, Republicans/Conservatives forecast many times that our abandoning Iraq would create a vacuum and who would fill this vacuum. We now know that it is far worse than even we imagined.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Markle wrote:John Kerry has made a gigantic concession to Russia.  For over fifty years the US and other nations have kept Russia out of the Middle East and rightfully so.

Russia wants to strengthen Baghdad government under Tehran's dominance strengthen Assad and Hezbollah then  reach a modus vivendi with ISIS.  They basically declare a truce with ISIS and then Russia can do on to do whatever they want.

Russia is using their Air Force to strike Libya warning US to stay out of the way.

WE, Republicans/Conservatives forecast many times that our abandoning Iraq would create a vacuum and who would fill this vacuum.  We now know that it is far worse than even we imagined.

After reading this post I've decided to vote for Rand Paul in the Florida republican primary if he hasn't dropped out by then.  Only to cancel out your vote for the most chickenhawk candidate.
I'm going with Paul because he will do what he says or at least try to.  I don't have any faith that Trump will do anything he says.
So your vote has now been neutered, Markle.



Last edited by Bob on 9/30/2015, 5:09 pm; edited 1 time in total

Sal

Sal

Markle wrote:For over fifty years the US and other nations have kept Russia out of the Middle East and rightfully so.

Now that we are in a de facto war with Russia…. Bonbon-dbfbe36b2ab7e3e46f8bdbc19fcc3ada

2seaoat



For over fifty years the US and other nations have kept Russia out of the Middle East and rightfully so.3

Nonsense. You have no knowledge of history or historic foreign policy. The Russians have had century old ties to Egypt going back to the Czar and connections with the Orthodox Church in Alexandria. In the midst of the Cold war Russia was aligned with Egypt and Syria, and at one point the two nations played with consolidation(Syria and Egypt). After the devastating defeat of the soviet missile system which was entrenched on the West side of the Suez, and Russian anti tank weapons which for the first five days of their preemptive attack on Israel in 1973 was clearly kicking the Israelis asz as they lost 150 tanks and could not have air supremacy because of the Soviet entrenchment of sams....then boom....America sends planes and tanks, and the Israelis pull off a brilliant wedge and bridge crossing which take out the Sams, and history changes.

Now the Americans were critical in forcing Israel to give back the Sinai and when the Soviets fought the peace treaty between Israel and Egypt, the beginning of the dismantling of the Soviet military ties with Egypt began and the locus of their zone of influence consolidated in Syria. The only thing remarkable was two years ago I was correctly telling people we were not going to openly engage in war with Syria because we were already tacitly funding regime change, no the remarkable thing was it took two years for the Russians to stop the destruction of the Syrian nation state. The Mic neocon nonsense is void of any historical or reality and counts on emotional power posing......like killing more people will change the realities.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Salinsky wrote:
Markle wrote:For over fifty years the US and other nations have kept Russia out of the Middle East and rightfully so.

Now that we are in a de facto war with Russia…. Bonbon-dbfbe36b2ab7e3e46f8bdbc19fcc3ada

That horrible caramel candy again. Can't you post a picture of Geritol or something. lol

2seaoat



WE, Republicans/Conservatives forecast many times that our abandoning Iraq would create a vacuum and who would fill this vacuum.

So with this alleged wisdom, your rational choice was to invade an innocent country in the 911 attack.........if you could foresee the inevitable, do you not think the better choice was not to invade Iraq?

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