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Pensacola Discussion Forum » Politics » Which is better for you and your family, socialism or capitalism?

Which is better for you and your family, socialism or capitalism?

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TEOTWAWKI
Floridatexan
Sal
Markle
Hospital Bob
Wordslinger
10 posters

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Guest


Guest

Floridatexan wrote:
Bob wrote:

boards of FL wrote:

If there is a need to stimulate the economy, and if our fiscal policy is in order, a tax cut is a perfectly reasonable tool to use.

I'm trying to apply this philosophy to The Great Stimulus program of 2008.
Because arguably that's a prime example of when economic "stimulus" is needed.
But I don't recall you advocating any tax cuts for that one.  Only A LOT more government spending and a lot more government debt.


The TARP (Troubled Asset Relief Program) was in 2008. That consisted of bailing out the banks, Wall Street, and the massive insurance co. run by your Uncle Hank. That was Bush's baby. The stimulus was in 2009, after Obama took office. That was intended to revive the economy. That was Keynesian...but IMHO it was too little, too late, because the Bush administration and their toadies weren't even acknowledging the recession and the housing bubble for more than a year. At the end of Bush's tenure, jobs were hemorrhaging at the rate of about 600,000 per month.

Tarp was paid back... even though I disagreed with it. Why do you need to be repeatedly reminded of the same facts?

http://www.wsj.com/articles/ally-financial-exits-tarp-as-treasury-sells-remaining-stake-1419000430

Markle

Markle

SheWrites wrote:M, by the time you are drawing Medicare benefits for your health care needs the pittance you paid in has already been used up.  You are drawing from what others pay in and it's still in need of subsidy.  Yes, you do have socialism in your life.  

Do you even know the definition of Socialism?

Sal

Sal

Have you noticed that deficits and the debt aren't part of the Republican debates?

Ever feel like you've been played for a fool?

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Salinsky wrote:Have you noticed that deficits and the debt aren't part of the Republican debates?

Ever feel like you've been played for a fool?

Well since it aint part of any democrat debate either, and since I'm neither a republican nor a democrat, and you are one of those, then who's the fool? lol

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

This is your queue,  bds,  to again tell us how Obama and the democrats are the "low overhead" types like me who are out to cut the debt. And don't forget your stats and charts, those are always so full of "truth".  lol

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Markle wrote:
SheWrites wrote:M, by the time you are drawing Medicare benefits for your health care needs the pittance you paid in has already been used up.  You are drawing from what others pay in and it's still in need of subsidy.  Yes, you do have socialism in your life.  

Do you even know the definition of Socialism?

Yes,  she does know the definition of it,  markle,  because the definition of it has been clearly articulated in this thread.
And since it has nothing to do with being "semi-retired" or being a "cowh" or having the same name as Saddam Hussein,  you wouldn't understand it.

Guest


Guest

Cmon bob... he'll use the worn out bs about obama cutting the deficit HISTORICALLY... when his deficits were historic.

No president or country for that matter has spent more borrowed and printed money in the history of the world.

Markle

Markle

Wordslinger wrote:
I'm not for state owned property and farms and factories.  I'm for an intelligent and just blend of capitalist-socialism.  Just so everyone knows ...

Who could make this up? Wordslinger is for anything where HE MAKES ALL THE RULES AND DECIDES WHAT IS GOOD AND WHAT IS BAD FROM HIS POST AS SUPREME LEADER.

Which is better for you and your family, socialism or capitalism? - Page 5 LOL_zpsrc5py0ql

TEOTWAWKI

TEOTWAWKI

Bob wrote:
Markle wrote:
SheWrites wrote:M, by the time you are drawing Medicare benefits for your health care needs the pittance you paid in has already been used up.  You are drawing from what others pay in and it's still in need of subsidy.  Yes, you do have socialism in your life.  

Do you even know the definition of Socialism?

Yes,  she does know the definition of it,  markle,  because the definition of it has been clearly articulated in this thread.
And since it has nothing to do with being "semi-retired" or being a "cowh" or having the same name as Saddam Hussein,  you wouldn't understand it.


Yes Bob and I have both met Shewrites and she is a lovely lady of exceedingly good intellect and memory. I had the pleasure of listening to her and Bob expounding in detail on some of Pensacola's characters and history one fine afternoon. I wish I had recorded it.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

It's now time for me to emulate Trump except not with just empty rhetoric like he does.  
No president or country or corporation or business knows how to do "low overhead" better than me.  
If any of that can build my same garden patio for two hundred bucks,  then I'd like to see it.

There is only one entity on the whole fucking planet earth who can do it better than me.  
And that would be my yard sale partner.  I don't hold a candle to him on it and nobody else is even a close third. lol

Markle

Markle

polecat wrote:Top 10 Ways To Anger Any Republican When They Complain About Socialism.

1: War

The Pentagon – every invasion that came from it, drones, bullets, guns, bombs, ships, planes, you name it – is all paid for with tax money. Literally every penny of it is tied to socialism, yet inexplicably war is the favorite past time of every Republican.

2: Sports

Yes, sports. Big sports. The bigger the better, and they all need stadiums in which to play. Where do these stadiums come from? They are mostly, if not completely, funded by taxpayer money. Yes, that’s right. Local and sometimes state taxes go to fund sport stadium construction because they are “great job creators,” if you consider being paid minimum wage to hawk 11 dollar cups of warm beer a great job. Remember this one when some self-taught economist says the government cannot create jobs.

3: Social Security

A substantial amount of Republicans are on Social Security, despite the fact it is evil Socialism. Even the name “Social” Security, is a dead giveaway. It is funded completely through taxes and pays out a public benefit. If you ask them why they choose to not burn their checks every month, they will tell you it is because they happen to personally benefit from it. The excuse of “I paid into it” is not valid if they try to use it. They also paid into subsidies for Big Oil but they do not get free gas.

4: Medicare

A lot of Republicans literally cannot live without it. Medicare is exactly what every other modestly advanced or better nation on the planet has (except they have it for all citizens), but is too socialistic for America. Yet, if you went to take it from them they would probably call it tyranny and/or death panels.

5: The entire Republican party

Quite literally every single elected Republican from the most local and lowly public servant, through state and federal offices, to the presidency itself is funded completely by socialist tax dollars. How would a Republican live with themselves without their Republican legislators telling them to elect or re-elect them so they can prove government can’t get anything done?

6: Corporate bailouts and subsidies

Republicans love the guys who give tax money, or even deficit spending, to corporate billionaires. Your average Republican is not a corporate billionaire, so it is a bit confusing. However, they are very pro-billionaire welfare. Always make sure to remember that the single mom with two kids who needs 100 bucks extra per month for food is just a whore and deserves nothing.

7: State and federal roads and bridges

Imagine if there were no overpasses for people to hang anti-Obama signs from, or no streets on which to have Confederate flag marches; people would complain it was restricting their freedom of speech. You don’t have freedom of speech on private roads though, and they never remember this. Socialism just saved the Republicans’ first amendment rights.

8: Practically all snow removal

With very few exceptions on very local levels, all road-based snow removal is socialistic. Taxpayer funding covers it every time, and every Republican demands that their road be plowed first. In this case it benefits them personally, so we can say “selfish socialism” is very pro-American.

9: Border protection

You know how it is by now. When you say “border protection” within 10 yards of any Republican they immediately shout and grab the nearest thing that looks like a gun, then complain how the immigrants are stealing jobs. “We have to secure the border!” they cry. As usual, where does the money come from? You guessed it. socialist taxes.

10: The Internet

Absolutely colossal amounts of Republican belly-aching and bitching about Socialism occur online. Without the government, the internet would not exist. DARPA, a socialistically funded agency, along with other governmental entities, invented the internet. Next time you get a colorful email full of bad grammar from your Tea Party relative, remind them that email is fueled by socialism and request they cancel their internet service.

You have no clue as to what comprises Socialism. This place is a hoot. They advocate for something of which they know NOTHING.

Everything you listed above are the result of people desiring a service and joining together to PAY for that service. Better known as Capitalism.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Well maybe except for Dangerous Dan. His yard sale territory is Ensley and the north end.
That's why me and my partner Ken both stay the hell away from there. That son of a bitch can actually smell bargains and that gives him an advantage none of the rest of us have. When he dies, medical science needs to study him because his ability to smell bargains tells me he must have somehow gotten some hound dog mixed in his genes. lol

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

But of course it's complicated. Because wanting "low overhead" is of course what put this country on the path of decline.
Back then it was supported by both democrats and republicans. It was called "taking advantage of cheap chinese labor".

It's also complicated when you consider what I do. Because no matter how much I brag about getting bargains, if somebody had not first paid retail for all the bargains I buy, there wouldn't be no bargains to be had. lol
In that regard, it's like what my car dealer cousin told me when I told him: "nobody should ever buy a new car".
His response: "only problem with that is no car manufacturer has yet learned how to build a used car".
And the fact is that nobody has ever learned how to build a "used" anything. lol

Markle

Markle

Bob wrote:I can give you my secret to successful capitalism and avoiding debt and I only need two words to do so:  Low Overhead.  

I guarantee you I'm better at that (low overhead) than Donald Trump,  Bill Gates, Warren Buffet,  Carlos Slim,  Pablo Escobar (once the world's 7th richest person),  the Koch Brothers or George Soros ever thought about being.  lol

Yes, obviously your system is far superior to theirs.

TEOTWAWKI

TEOTWAWKI

Markle wrote:
Bob wrote:I can give you my secret to successful capitalism and avoiding debt and I only need two words to do so:  Low Overhead.  

I guarantee you I'm better at that (low overhead) than Donald Trump,  Bill Gates, Warren Buffet,  Carlos Slim,  Pablo Escobar (once the world's 7th richest person),  the Koch Brothers or George Soros ever thought about being.  lol

Yes, obviously your system is far superior to theirs.

Hey it worked for Bob...he's doing quite well....and as far as I know has yet to need a Buffet bailout.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

Markle wrote:
Bob wrote:I can give you my secret to successful capitalism and avoiding debt and I only need two words to do so:  Low Overhead.  

I guarantee you I'm better at that (low overhead) than Donald Trump,  Bill Gates, Warren Buffet,  Carlos Slim,  Pablo Escobar (once the world's 7th richest person),  the Koch Brothers or George Soros ever thought about being.  lol

Yes, obviously your system is far superior to theirs.

I can promise you this.  If I inherited the same amount of money from my father as Trump inherited from his;  unlike Trump I would now have more money than if I'd just put the inheritance in Dow stocks.  lol

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2015/09/02/business-genius-trump-wouldve-been-richer-if-he-never-touched-his-inheritence-money-analysis/

But I wouldn't have as much money as the rest.  I'll give you that.  lol

Markle

Markle

For the benefit of those writing their own definition of Socialism and/or using the term without the least bit of understanding as to its meaning.

A socialist economy is based on the principle of production for use, to directly satisfy economic demand and human needs, and objects are valued by their use-value, as opposed to the principle of production for profit and accumulation of capital.[8] In the traditional conception of a socialist economy, coordination, accounting and valuation are performed in kind (using physical quantities), by a common physical magnitude, or by a direct measure of labour-time in place of financial calculation.[9][10] For distributing output, two alternative principles have been proposed: to each according to his contribution and from each according to his ability, to each according to his need. The advisability, feasibility and exact way of allocating and valuing resources are the subjects of the socialist calculation debate.

The socialist political movement includes a diverse array of political philosophies.[7] Core dichotomies include reformism versus revolutionary socialism, and state socialism versus libertarian socialism. While all tendencies of socialism consider themselves democratic, the term "democratic socialism" is often used to highlight its advocates' high value for democratic processes and political systems and usually to draw contrast to other socialist tendencies they may perceive to be undemocratic.[11] The varieties of socialism differ in the type of social ownership they advocate, the degree to which they rely on markets or planning, how management is to be organised within productive institutions, and the role of the state in constructing socialism.[12][13] Today, some socialists have adopted the causes of other social movements, such as environmentalism, feminism and liberalism.[14]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

The conventional definitions for these political terms are no longer in use,  markle.

The best example of all is how your side always mis-applies the terms "the left" vs "the right".

If we adhere to your conventional definitions for these terms,  it is TOTALLY INCORRECT to use the terms "left" and "right" to describe anything that is not economic in nature.  The "left" and the "right" was originally intended to apply ONLY to the economic continuum between socialism and capitalism.  
The strict definition had nothing whatever to do with all the other "liberal" vs "conservative" bullshit.  Had nothing to do with abortion or immigration or gay marriage or any of that.
So if you're going to correct us on this,  then who you really need to correct is Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh and last but not least,  your idol Bill O'Reilly.



Last edited by Bob on 9/23/2015, 5:25 pm; edited 1 time in total

boards of FL

boards of FL

Bob wrote:This is your queue,  bds,  to again tell us how Obama and the democrats are the "low overhead" types like me who are out to cut the debt.   And don't forget your stats and charts,  those are always so full of "truth".   lol



Yes, now that you have misinterpreted everything that I have said over the course of the last few pages, it is now my task to explain things to you.  Fair enough.

First, let's look at spending:

Jimmy Carter

1977: 1320.5
1981: 1543.9  

So we can see that spending increased by 16.9% under Carter.

Ronald Reagan

1981: 1543.9
1989: 1887.7

So we can see that spending increased by 22.3% under Reagan

George HW Bush

1989: 1887.7
1993: 2021.2

So we can see that spending increased by 7.1%  under HW Bush.

Bill Clinton

1993: 2021.2
2001: 2276.2

So we can see that spending increased by 12.6% under Clinton

George W Bush

2001: 2276.2
2009: 3517.7

So we can see that spending increased by 54.5% under W Bush

Barack Obama

2009: 3517.7
2015: 3426.2

So we can see that spending has decreased by 2.6% under Obama

If we break all of this down to determine the average rate of annual growth in government spending under the above democratic versus republican presidents, we see that government spending grows under republicans at a rate of 3.29% per year; for democrats, government grows on average at a rate of 1.68% per year.   So to conclude, over the last several decades, government spending grows under republicans nearly twice as fast as under democrats.  So that is the spending side of things.  

All numbers come from the link below, and I'll be happy to break down the calculations should anyone not know how to calculate average annual rates of growth.

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=200


Should I continue with deficits, or are we good here?


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Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

The country is now almost $20 trillion in debt,  bds, and will be before long. That's because of democrat politicians,  republican politicians,  and the voters who put them in office.
None of that democrat nonsense of yours trumps that fact.

Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

If those founding fathers could be here and see the country they created is $20 trillion in debt, they would tell us it's time to do what they did and replace this fucked up system with a different one.

boards of FL

boards of FL

Bob wrote:The country is now almost $20 trillion in debt,  bds, and will be before long. That's because of democrat politicians,  republican politicians,  and the voters who put them in office.
None of that democrat nonsense of yours trumps that fact.


So I have tried to reason with you over the course of several pages.  You somehow managed to ignore everything I said and instead argued against a strawman the entire time.   Then you tasked me with explaining to you how democrats are better than republicans with respect to your "low overhead" talk.  I then gave you the numbers for democratic versus republican presidents and clearly made my case using verifiable facts.  And your response here is to throw your hands up and simply repeat your original starting argument.  

lol.  gufaw.  See!?  It's all the same!  Just a buncha wrastlers!

Here you are, Bob.  Oh, and don't try to heat up any Werthers Originals in this unit.  They'll melt.

Which is better for you and your family, socialism or capitalism? - Page 5 Kitchenaid-toaster-l-927e3c5e9277ff55


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Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

I guess you don't listen to anything I say either.  I already told you I can't stand caramel so I'm not about to consume that horrible candy.
Besides,  I'm a diabetic and I can't eat anything that's not sugar-free.
And I'm willing to bet that that caramel candy is loaded with it.  Plus the commercial for that candy you showed is about as boring and sophomoric as commercials can get,  and that's saying something.  

If you're going to type me with a tv commercial,  make it be beer or something else that's dear to my heart. Show me the Budweiser Clydesdales.

boards of FL

boards of FL

Bob wrote:I guess you don't listen to anything I say either.  I already told you I can't stand caramel so I'm not about to consume that horrible candy.
Besides,  I'm a diabetic and I can't eat anything that's not sugar-free.
And I'm willing to bet that that caramel candy is loaded with it.  Plus the commercial for that candy you showed is about as boring and sophomoric as commercials can get,  and that's saying something.  

If you're going to type me with a tv commercial,  make it be beer or something else that's dear to my heart.  Show me the Budweiser Clydesdales.




Ask and ye shall receive.  



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Hospital Bob

Hospital Bob

That one is a lot more applicable to me than caramel candy. lol

And on that note, I have to leave the discussion because I have to leave the house for the evening. And I hate trying to post on that little phone keyboard.

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